Most of the information are included inside the picture itself, so I add just a few more comments:
(Note: it is possible that the web traffic on the geocities site where I put this picture will exceed its storage limit, so the picture will not be accessible for a short time. Just wait for a few hours and the image will appear again ;))
http://it.geocities.com/lutetius4/Mappe4/Mystara_orbital_data3.JPG
I took the zodiac's constellations from the Starmap of CM7 module. Even if this starmap suggests different dispositions of the constellations in the Mystaran sky (i.e. they could not be zodiacal constellations but polar contellations instead) I noticed that there are exactly 12 of them, and that they are somewhat referred to Mystaran's seasons.
So I considered them as the equatorial constellations related to the astrological signs.
Other canon material (mostly the PWAs) gives a different name to the zodiac constellations (except for the Hydra), so I tought that the CM7 assigns to them an elvish name, while the PWAs show the human name of the same groups of stars. Stars/galaxies names come from the CM7 so they should be considered "elvish" names.
I added some astronomical data that may be easily calculated for Mystara and its two moons (once that the orbital periods are known it is possible to calculate the distance from the sun or from Mystara).
Data about Matera and Patera's gravity are available in CoM Designer's Manual, so it is possible to compare their mass to some real solar system equivalent.
Once the distance from Mystara of the moons is known, it is possible to make a comparison between the apparent size of the real moon in the Earth sky and the apparent size of Matera and Patera in the Mystaran sky. Notice that if Patera would be visible, it will appear as a huge celestial body.
Other information I put in the picture include some data for the diskworld, an artificial habitat created by Terra on the fringes of Mystaran solar system and described in the CoM Designer's Manual. I also added some speculations about the Dragon constellation and the legend of the Darokinian dragon Aurus described in IM2 module.
I tried also to determine the phases of Patera along the Mystaran year. It was not an easy task, but I hope I included the major astronomical contributions. Basically, this moon rotates on a polar orbit in 3 days and a half; this polar orbit is also locked to Mystara (again, from CoM), which means that Patera shows always the same side to Mystara's surface. Patera also precedes around Mystaran axis so to complete a full circle in a Mystaran year. These two movements let the external sun light to lit every month a different region of Patera's surface.
That's about all. I didn't include information about the other planets (the ones described in the Immortal set) because they should be very similar to the real world solar system data (except for Damocles, of course).
Could any of the stars be tied to the star systems mentioned in the Immortal Gold Box set?
I like how you have tied in Aurum, the Gold Dragon to this Zodiac.
Havard
My campaign is taking place in Alfheim right now (northern "Emerlas," from O2/Blade of Vengeance), with a mostly-elven party. They have knowledge of the star chart, and I of course am planning on incorporating it during CM7 in the future (when they're higher level).
Currently, I can at least tell the players which constellations are most prominently visible to the characters at night. (Though it always rains at night in Alfheim; maybe they can see stars in the hours after sunset and before sunrise, and the rains are only for a few hours....) At any rate, they could see the constellations when they foray into the northern hills (or anywhere just outside of the Canolbarth).
Havard (or anyone), could you give me any kind of summary (or a "teaser") of what some of the info about stars is in the Gold Box set? (That is one of the few Mystara products I never purchased.)
Thanks again!
Havard (or anyone), could you give me any kind of summary (or a "teaser") of what some of the info about stars is in the Gold Box set?
Two solar systems are mentioned:
Alpha Centauri: The closest solar system where one can find planets and a civilization. Some have suggested this to be the location of Alphatia, but given that the boxed set says they have not developed magic, I find that hard to believe.
Epsilon Eridani: Further away, but this system is also known to have a civilization that uses magic. James Mishler identified this system as the home world of the Pyrithians/Emerondians before the arrived at the Mystaran Asteroid Belt.
Also, the Core of the Galaxy is speculated to be a possible home of a magical civilization due to the large presence of Energy there. Others (including me) have suggested that this could be the home of the Galactic Federation from the DA series. Planar Spiders and some shape shifting races have also been suggested as making a home in this region.
Note: The Gold Box uses RW names for the galactic bodies. They are used for comparison only and should be substituted by Mystaran equivalents.
Oh another thing: Whatabout "Spillworld", the new planet mentioned in Dawn of the Emperors? Could that be the same world as the discworld from CoM?
Havard
I have some spare time, so I'm posting here some of the works I did in the Italian Message Board in the last two years. This is one of them (the Vulcanian info being another example). The biggest part of the work is the translation from italian. If the related posts were very long I need a lot of time to prepare my english topics...
Anyway I have a couple more topics ready to send, I'll post them during the day.
To Havard: thanks for the complete info from Immortal Set, I didn't remember many details. To answer to your question we should understand how big the 12 constellation are. From the Starmap it seems that they cover the whole northern sky, but it seems illogical to me (zodiacal constellations were created from the groups of stars crossed by the sunrise during the year, which means that they are more or less placed around the sky orb equator). Remembre that the whole sky harbor many more constellations than the 12 zodiacal ones.
If the zodiacal star groups are more or less as big as the real world constellations of the zodiac, and if we say that Alpha Centauri and Epsilon Eridani are placed in the same places of the real sky, then both stars are for sure outside the zodiacal belt.
(in the following I refer to the "human" names of the Mystaran constellations)
Epsilon Eridani is near to Orion constellation, which north of Gemini and Taurus and is best visible in January. So, for comparison, Mystaran Epsilon Eridani should be somewhere north of the Manticore and Hydra constellation, visible in the northern emisphere and in the equatorial area.
Alpha Centauri is in the Centaurus constellation, a very southern one, bordering with the Libra. It is best visible in May. So, for comparison, Mystaran Alpha Centauri should be somewhere south of the Chimera constellation, visible only in the southern emisphere.
The real galactic center is in the constellation of Sagittarius. It is best visible in August, from the mid northern emisphere to the whole southern emisphere. So the Mystaran galactic centre should be somewhere along the direction of the Dragon constellation.
About Spillworld: you are right, I didn't specified anything about it. Anyway, I would not connect it to the Diskworld, due to the quite different features of these two objects.
From DotE we read that Spillworld is in truth a nebula of air and small rocky worlds that suddenly appeared in space (possibly a few years before AC1000) due to a rip in the boundaries between the Prime Plane and some Elemental Planes.
It was first spotted by Ambur astronomers, so it should be located somewhere in the northern sky, possibly near to the north celestial pole (otherwise it would have been seen also by other astronomers: the kingdom of Ambur is a very northern region). These worlds are very close to each other, so they may be explored by suitable equipped skyships and flying mounts.
Noticeably, if the "Journey to Spillworld" adventure is played, the joint Thyatian/Alphatian expedition may be left stranded on this odd planetary system when the WotI events begin. These explorers may be still on Spillworld, more or less conscious of the Great War and the sinking of Alphatia. It may be a nice adventure hint.
To JTrithen:
A hint about your campaign. Some months ago, I found with Agathokles that Cucurbita Pepo, the 10th level druid suggested to play the CM7 module, is also cited in VotPA, in the episode of Robrenn and Eusdria. Here the young Pepo is presented as a human druid of the Robrenn church. This would mean that the CM7 is in truth a joint Alfheim/Robrenn mission to the Sylvan Realm (at the beginning of CM7 we read that Cucurbita Pepo enters Alfheim with a group of other druids of his order: possibly they have heard of the sikness of the Tree of Life before the Alfheim elves, and they moved to join the elves to take the Rainbow Path.
One other thing, IIRC, the star map in CM7 has different (elvish and human) names for the months on it. Have you thought about incorporating this information, or have any thoughts on it?
To JTrithen:
A hint about your campaign. Some months ago, I found with Agathokles that Cucurbita Pepo, the 10th level druid suggested to play the CM7 module, is also cited in VotPA, in the episode of Robrenn and Eusdria. Here the young Pepo is presented as a human druid of the Robrenn church. This would mean that the CM7 is in truth a joint Alfheim/Robrenn mission to the Sylvan Realm (at the beginning of CM7 we read that Cucurbita Pepo enters Alfheim with a group of other druids of his order: possibly they have heard of the sikness of the Tree of Life before the Alfheim elves, and they moved to join the elves to take the Rainbow Path.
Another idea is that the Robrenn are initiating this mission on their own accord or with other Robrenn/Eusdrian elves. Perhaps this could solve one of the mysteries of Mystara- that of the disposition of the Savage Coast elves and their relationships to/with the elvish Trees of Life. They don't seem to have any from Savage Coast materials, but that doesn't seem quite right. Perhaps they have a daughter tree of the original like the Feadiels?
.... Planar Spiders and some shape shifting races have also been suggested as making a home in this region.
Note: The Gold Box uses RW names for the galactic bodies. They are used for comparison only and should be substituted by Mystaran equivalents.....
Havard
.... To JTrithen:
A hint about your campaign. Some months ago, I found with Agathokles that Cucurbita Pepo, the 10th level druid suggested to play the CM7 module, is also cited in VotPA, in the episode of Robrenn and Eusdria. Here the young Pepo is presented as a human druid of the Robrenn church. This would mean that the CM7 is in truth a joint Alfheim/Robrenn mission to the Sylvan Realm (at the beginning of CM7 we read that Cucurbita Pepo enters Alfheim with a group of other druids of his order: possibly they have heard of the sikness of the Tree of Life before the Alfheim elves, and they moved to join the elves to take the Rainbow Path.)
.... Another idea is that the Robrenn are initiating this mission on their own accord or with other Robrenn/Eusdrian elves. Perhaps this could solve one of the mysteries of Mystara- that of the disposition of the Savage Coast elves and their relationships to/with the elvish Trees of Life. They don't seem to have any from Savage Coast materials, but that doesn't seem quite right. Perhaps they have a daughter tree of the original like the Feadiels?
Thanks Havard, and thanks LoZompatore (and Agathokles) and Cthulhudrew, for the info and hints!:D
I didn't know about the Pepo tie-in! This will really work well, because I have a Eusdrian half-elf that is adventuring with the party (and another one that will be joining them, probably after this adventure), and this will be a great tie-in, and a way to provide motivations for their characters!
BRAVISSIMO, SIGNORE!!
This was very well done. A few minor quibbles/corrections here.
1) I assume we are viewing from "above" the ecliptic plane. The planet should move counter-clockwise about the sun, not clockwise [assuming orbits are as in the RW solar system]. (same with the moon Matera)
Would that switch mess up the zodiac sequence? Or possibly bring the elven/human symbols in better alignment?
As a possible "out" and keeping it as seen - we are looking at the orbit below the ecliptic - which would make sense if this was based on the ancient Elven view of the stars.
2) In the rightside info box. Patera does have rotation. Just like with Matera, the tidal forces keep the same side facing Mystara, and the rotation and revolution times match/approximate.
3) Solstices: this actually isn't a quibble with what you're showing but with a canon screw-up. By weather, winter was Kaldmont, Numont, and Vatermont [as December, January, and February analogs]. Because of the rates of solar absorption and night-time heat radiation, the winter solstice falls within the winter period, not the beginning. As such, Kaldmont 28 is a better candidate for the solstice than Kaldmont 1 (with approprate changes to summer solstice and the equinoxes).
4) Pateran phases/local daylight: the problem is even more complicated than you think, if you factor in Mystara's tilt, which Patera would have to adjust to to maintain a polar orbit. [Isn't vector-based mathematics FUN :D ]
BTW, What was the source for the Night of the Red Moon? PC4?
And who celebrates Great Rain of Fire day
-OldDawg
BRAVISSIMO, SIGNORE!!
Grazie. ;)
1) I assume we are viewing from "above" the ecliptic plane. The planet should move counter-clockwise about the sun, not clockwise [assuming orbits are as in the RW solar system]. (same with the moon Matera)
Would that switch mess up the zodiac sequence? Or possibly bring the elven/human symbols in better alignment?
Ach!! I think you are right... I'll try to modify the map to see if there are differences. I don't think that there will be different couplings between elven and humans name, because I matched them by seasons (summer elvish constellations corresponds to the summer human's ones and so on).
As a possible "out" and keeping it as seen - we are looking at the orbit below the ecliptic - which would make sense if this was based on the ancient Elven view of the stars.
Unluckily it should not be possible: the Starmap of CM7 is used in Alfheim, so seasons and constellations should be referred as seen from the northern emisphere. I'm afraid I'll have to redraw the map...
2) In the rightside info box. Patera does have rotation. Just like with Matera, the tidal forces keep the same side facing Mystara, and the rotation and revolution times match/approximate.
Absolutely correct. I'll change this data as soon as possible. ;)
3) Solstices: this actually isn't a quibble with what you're showing but with a canon screw-up. By weather, winter was Kaldmont, Numont, and Vatermont [as December, January, and February analogs]. Because of the rates of solar absorption and night-time heat radiation, the winter solstice falls within the winter period, not the beginning. As such, Kaldmont 28 is a better candidate for the solstice than Kaldmont 1 (with approprate changes to summer solstice and the equinoxes).
IIRC I took the solstice/equinoxes days from the PWAs. I know that there is quite a mess between their calendar and the ones described in some early GAZs (especially GAZ3, IIRC). Do you suggest to change solstice/equinox days? If you might add more details to your note I would be really grateful.
4) Pateran phases/local daylight: the problem is even more complicated than you think, if you factor in Mystara's tilt, which Patera would have to adjust to to maintain a polar orbit. [Isn't vector-based mathematics FUN ]
Unluckily I don't know how to take in account for this factor without making a lot of calculations (polar orbits aren't easy...).
I think that we may give a simplified answer with the intervention of Immortal magic. Here is why:
Notice this important issue (it was first noted some time ago by Zaryck, another member of the Italian Message Board): were the pre-GRoF orbits of Matera and Patera the same as now? The tilt of Mystara's axis should not have affected the moon orbits, so the position in the sky of both moons should have changed a lot if seen from the same point of Mystara's surface before and after the GRoF.
If the answer to the question above is yes, then before the Cataclysm both moons must have shown very strange orbits, both quite far from the actual celestial equator. In particular, Patera was very far from having a polar orbit. If the answer is no, we must think that the Immortals adjusted the moons' orbits in order to match the new Mystara's axis and to let them to appear in the Mystaran's sky in the same way as before the Great Rain of Fire.
Considering the very particular orbit of Patera after the cataclysm I would say that its orbit was modified by the Immortals (the same for Matera). So me may also say that the speed of this polar moon magically varies a bit along its course in order to keep a regular path in the sky. In this way the Patera's orbit is not too much complicated...
Anyway, it just a theory ;)
BTW, What was the source for the Night of the Red Moon? PC4?
IIRC the source is GAZ3. Anyway, it is in the description of the calendar of one of the GAZs. Ekrenor, a member of the Italian Message Board, suggested that on this day the moon is red because Mystara and its satellites cross a region of space full of some kind of dust (remnants of comets and the like) that causes this odd event to happen. Possibly also Patera (if visible) would change color on this day.
And who celebrates Great Rain of Fire day
Well, the event is described in PWAI, (see the entry of Nuwmont, 1 at the beginning of the events for AC1010 section) so I put it in the poster. I don't know who celebrates it (maybe some entropic followers?), even if there are many hints in the canon that let you think that the Blackmoor and its destruction are quite well known by the Known World inhabitants.
For example, from DA1 it is known that the "common tongue" of the Known World (the Thyatian language, we must think) is derived from the ancient Thonian language. Moreover, in DA1 there is even an elvish NPC that claims to be a direct descendant of Menander Ithamis, an elven leader of the Blackmoor's era.
Notice this important issue (it was first noted some time ago by Zaryck, another member of the Italian Message Board): were the pre-GRoF orbits of Matera and Patera the same as now? The tilt of Mystara's axis should not have affected the moon orbits, so the position in the sky of both moons should have changed a lot if seen from the same point of Mystara's surface before and after the GRoF.
I don't know if my understanding is correct here or not, but I've always held the idea that neither of Mystara's axis or tilt changed in relation to its orbit. Therefore the latitude of the tropics and the (ant)arctic circles did not change. The change in the tilt was only in relation to the surface of the planet. Does that help or make any sense?
IIRC I took the solstice/equinoxes days from the PWAs. I know that there is quite a mess between their calendar and the ones described in some early GAZs (especially GAZ3, IIRC). Do you suggest to change solstice/equinox days? If you might add more details to your note I would be really grateful.
Here is my suggestion:
1) keep winter weather Kaldmont - Vatermont (and the other seasons in progression)
2) The winter solstice is Kaldmont 28. Last day of the year = shortest day is a good ancient equivalence (RW solstice around this time as well)
3) Summer solstice is Klarmont 28 (6 months later) ["June" 28]
4) for simplicity, assume the planetary orbit is sufficiently circular so we can fudge the equinoxes to Spring on Thaumont 28, and Fall equinox on Ambyrmont 28 ["March" and "September" respectively]
-OldDawg