Lo and behold, I came across a new monster, the Chak in there. Darned if this isn't the same creature that Frank introduced in the Masters set as the Planar Spider! (And it explains where the "chak/black chak" reference to the PSs came in in the Mystara Monstrous Compendium).
Wasn't sure if anyone else had ever noticed this before, but it was a first for me, and I thought I'd point it out.
(Also, it provides some fleshing out of Planar Spider/Chak culture and society that we don't get outside of M5, so it might be of interest to others.)
[EDIT- Just noticed the publication date on I11 is 1987, while the Masters set was 1985, so it looks like the PS came first, then Mentzer recycled and expanded upon his creation in I11. Unless he'd written I11 first and it just sat on the shelf for awhile...
Anyway, some more PS goodness from their creator, Frank Mentzer can be found in I11.]
Is I-11 setted in GreyHawk? Or i it a generic setting, usable in Mystara too?
My initial thought would be to have the main action of the adventure set on Davania's Jungle Coast (Hinterlands) with the PCs working for the Thyatians.
Havard
* Since the module is written by Frank Metzner and features Planar Spiders (Ok, Chaks), there is some merit for porting this over to Mystara.
* Tiamat appears (as an illusion) in the module. This can be replaced by one of the Dragon Rulers, probably the Pearl Dragon.
* The King is easily replaced by any Known World ruler, most likely the current Emperor of Thyatis at the time of the campaign.
* Bullywugs don't exist AFAIK on Mystara, but are easily replaced by Frogmen (Froglin) or even Trogolodytes (see below).
* My original idea for locating the module on Davania's Jungle Coast still works, but I'm thinking an island in the Thanegioth Archipelago would work even better. That would explain the connection between the Planar Spiders of the Needle and the Aranea of the Isle of Dread. Trogolodytes exist on the Isle of Dread, so they could then replace the Bullywugs.
* Frank has stated that the somewhat unpopular names given to the standard characters in the module were used inentionally so that players could come up with their own names. Replace them with more Mystaran names.
* The module was written as a tournament module, which is something I would keep in mind if using it. Avoid certain death traps unless you mean it.
* The Module introduces the new "Tunnel World", home of King Sarkum's Planar Spiders and the evil fraction known as the Black Chaks.
Havard
* Bullywugs don't exist AFAIK on Mystara, but are easily replaced by Frogmen (Froglin) or even Trogolodytes (see below).
Those are pretty good ideas. There are also Grippli in the adventure, which might be a bit more problematic. Offhand, I'd say if you decide to use Frogmen, just keep the grippli as is, and have them be an offshoot of the frogmen. Otherwise, phanatons might be a good substitute (given their connection to planar spiders/aranea and jungle territory on Mystara).
* My original idea for locating the module on Davania's Jungle Coast still works, but I'm thinking an island in the Thanegioth Archipelago would work even better. That would explain the connection between the Planar Spiders of the Needle and the Aranea of the Isle of Dread. Trogolodytes exist on the Isle of Dread, so they could then replace the Bullywugs.
The module also mentions that the Black Chak were given a Retriever (demonic construct) due to their dealings with Demogorgon, which would fit in with the Isle of Dread/Demogorgon ties from the Savage Tide AP in Dungeon magazine.
Those are pretty good ideas. There are also Grippli in the adventure, which might be a bit more problematic. Offhand, I'd say if you decide to use Frogmen, just keep the grippli as is, and have them be an offshoot of the frogmen. Otherwise, phanatons might be a good substitute (given their connection to planar spiders/aranea and jungle territory on Mystara).
The module also mentions that the Black Chak were given a Retriever (demonic construct) due to their dealings with Demogorgon, which would fit in with the Isle of Dread/Demogorgon ties from the Savage Tide AP in Dungeon magazine.
Both excellent points. I like the idea of using Phanatons. They are such a cool race
The STAP/Demogorgon fits amazingly well with the whole thing too. Im surprised it wasn't written with the Thanegioth Archipelago in mind. Or maybe it was? 
Havard
* Bullywugs don't exist AFAIK on Mystara, but are easily replaced by Frogmen (Froglin) or even Trogolodytes (see below).
well they're in the Savage Tide ... does that count? :D
well they're in the Savage Tide ... does that count? :D
Probably not for a purist ;) Then you would have to replace them in ST as well.
Fortunately, I'm not really a purist, but I offered those suggestions to sastisfy various kinds of preferences.
Havard
Probably not for a purist ;) Then you would have to replace them in ST as well.
...and the aboleths and the... etc
Actually the aboleths could be replaced with an aquatic version of a burrower.
Could there also be a place for Cthulhudrew's Klarkaszh the Corrupter?
Regards
Gary
Probably not for a purist ;) Then you would have to replace them in ST as well.
Fortunately, I'm not really a purist, but I offered those suggestions to sastisfy various kinds of preferences.
Havard
yeah I know, I was just stirring
yeah I know, I was just stirring
It's cool
Actually I've been giving this some more thought. Even if one isn't a Mystara purist, there could be other reasons for wishing to substitute official monsters with more Mystaran ones.
I may not disallow monsters that weren't found in Classic, but if I a able to use those that could be considered "iconic" Mystaran critters, then it might help emphasize the Mystaran feel? Does that line of thought have any merit?
Havard
Those are pretty good ideas. There are also Grippli in the adventure, which might be a bit more problematic. Offhand, I'd say if you decide to use Frogmen, just keep the grippli as is, and have them be an offshoot of the frogmen. Otherwise, phanatons might be a good substitute (given their connection to planar spiders/aranea and jungle territory on Mystara).
The module also mentions that the Black Chak were given a Retriever (demonic construct) due to their dealings with Demogorgon, which would fit in with the Isle of Dread/Demogorgon ties from the Savage Tide AP in Dungeon magazine.
Was it M5 which made an explicit connection between aranea and planar spiders?
Not too familiar with bullywugs or grippli, but just how much different are they then the frogmen which appear in the DA series? Isn't it pretty easy to just change bullywug to frogman and keep or change the stats?
Was it M5 which made an explicit connection between aranea and planar spiders?
That's the one. It had the aranea as the offspring of crossbreeding between Planar Spiders and Crab Spiders. Which is kind of strange when you think about it- it would be like humans interbreeding with monkeys (not even apes- that would be closer to the Phase Spider/Planar Spider connection at least). Given magic, it's not out of the question, though, and it certainly fits with the decadence that the PS followers of Arachne Prime seem to have fallen into. Twisted, really.
Not too familiar with bullywugs or grippli, but just how much different are they then the frogmen which appear in the DA series? Isn't it pretty easy to just change bullywug to frogman and keep or change the stats?
There really wasn't a whole lot given for stats for the Frogmen in DA2, as I recall. At least, they weren't given an explicit stat block (their stats were just buried in the regular text). From what I recall, they were statistically very similar to the bullywugs. The major differences are just cosmetic- frogmen seem to be somewhat smarter, and they are warm-blooded (I think the bullywugs are cold-blooded, although I could be wrong). So it would be very easy to use those stats.
Grippli are statistically a little different, IIRC. The main difference with grippli is that they are much smaller than bullywugs (either small or tiny, I'm not sure). Otherwise, just cosmetic differences (alignment, etc.)
That's the one. It had the aranea as the offspring of crossbreeding between Planar Spiders and Crab Spiders. Which is kind of strange when you think about it- it would be like humans interbreeding with monkeys (not even apes- that would be closer to the Phase Spider/Planar Spider connection at least). Given magic, it's not out of the question, though, and it certainly fits with the decadence that the PS followers of Arachne Prime seem to have fallen into. Twisted, really.
For a less twisted take on it, maybe what happened was more of a magical experiment using Crab Spider blood to make Super Soldier Planar Spiders?
There really wasn't a whole lot given for stats for the Frogmen in DA2, as I recall. At least, they weren't given an explicit stat block (their stats were just buried in the regular text). From what I recall, they were statistically very similar to the bullywugs. The major differences are just cosmetic- frogmen seem to be somewhat smarter, and they are warm-blooded (I think the bullywugs are cold-blooded, although I could be wrong). So it would be very easy to use those stats.
Grippli are statistically a little different, IIRC. The main difference with grippli is that they are much smaller than bullywugs (either small or tiny, I'm not sure). Otherwise, just cosmetic differences (alignment, etc.)
In that case they can all be replaced with Frogmen or the two other species can simply be explained as offshoots of the Frogmen of Blackmoor. One of the FGaz'es (Wildlands?) has rules for Frogmen PCs which may be useful to flesh out the module a little.
I'm including Needle in the list of Mystaran Apocrypha!
Havard
In that case they can all be replaced with Frogmen or the two other species can simply be explained as offshoots of the Frogmen of Blackmoor. One of the FGaz'es (Wildlands?) has rules for Frogmen PCs which may be useful to flesh out the module a little.
I'm including Needle in the list of Mystaran Apocrypha!
Havard
If I remember correclty, goblinoids are offshots of beastmen. A single stock of humanoids, the beasmen, originated a lot of diversified races, goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, orcs, ogres, and maybe also kobolds and trolls. All thanks to her majesty Hel.
Why should Blackmoor era frogmen be frogmen today? In so many years, they could easly have evolved in bullywugs, gripplis and also some other frog-humanoid race!
If I remember correclty, goblinoids are offshots of beastmen. A single stock of humanoids, the beasmen, originated a lot of diversified races, goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, orcs, ogres, and maybe also kobolds and trolls. All thanks to her majesty Hel.
Why should Blackmoor era frogmen be frogmen today? In so many years, they could easly have evolved in bullywugs, gripplis and also some other frog-humanoid race!
Good point
BTW: I am further convinced that Needle should be set on one of the islands of the Eastern Thanegioth Archipelago. Any suggestions about which one would be most appropriate? The Isle of Dread is out of the question, obviously.
We could even expand upon the Frog race theme for that island...
Havard
Perhaps the 'awakened' (as a result of involvement with Saint Stephen and company and their alien devices) frogmen ended up in Thanegioth archipelago as a result of escaping from the expansion of blackmoorian power - or to keep out of range of those in the valley of the ancients.
And frogmen / frogfolk:
Frog Folk - p14 of DA2 AC 6, HD 2+1, MV 90' (swim 120'), AT 1 DMG 1-4 bite or 1-6 kick or by weapon, ML 8, AL N
they are a result of genetic surgery on order's captives - modified bipeds. Interesting to think what would happen to them over 4000+ years...
For a less twisted take on it, maybe what happened was more of a magical experiment using Crab Spider blood to make Super Soldier Planar Spiders?
That could be- the module itself doesn't seem to state whether it was an intentional breeding project or not.
I kind of prefer my concept though- these entropic sicko planar spiders finding a whole group of submissive/unintelligent playthings of an appearance that is similar to their own race. Gross.
To go further with your own notion, though- there does seem to be almost some selective breeding going on. The aranea, the shapeshifting crab-spiders that are the offspring of Aketheti (herself sort of a weird crossbreed).
I've long wondered at the whole Aketheti thing, actually. How her "lineage" works. For one thing, Ramenhotep XXIV (the current, post-WotI pharoah) doesn't appear to be a "werespider" himself, so if he is fully human than he is likely not one of Aketheti's children, but probably the offspring of one of Ramenhotep's (human) concubines instead. In any event, there must have been some degree of knowledge at some point about the nature of Aketheti and her human husbands and their children. And I can't help but think about the black widow tendency to eat her mates... (possibly other spiders too, but the black widow I know of for sure).
That could be- the module itself doesn't seem to state whether it was an intentional breeding project or not.
I kind of prefer my concept though- these entropic sicko planar spiders finding a whole group of submissive/unintelligent playthings of an appearance that is similar to their own race. Gross.
Fair enough
To go further with your own notion, though- there does seem to be almost some selective breeding going on. The aranea, the shapeshifting crab-spiders that are the offspring of Aketheti (herself sort of a weird crossbreed).
I've long wondered at the whole Aketheti thing, actually. How her "lineage" works. For one thing, Ramenhotep XXIV (the current, post-WotI pharoah) doesn't appear to be a "werespider" himself, so if he is fully human than he is likely not one of Aketheti's children, but probably the offspring of one of Ramenhotep's (human) concubines instead. In any event, there must have been some degree of knowledge at some point about the nature of Aketheti and her human husbands and their children. And I can't help but think about the black widow tendency to eat her mates... (possibly other spiders too, but the black widow I know of for sure).
I will have to read up on the whole Thothia/M1, but I have to say I like the "eating of mates" part. Spiders dont really mesh with my understanding of Egyptian myth much...anyone else bothered by that?
Havard