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Penhaligon Trilogy

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
gawain_viii
Mar 23, 2007 17:18:16 Last weekend, VGeisz had informed me that he found The Tainted Sword at his local book exchange. By the time I got there, all 4 copies were already sold... however I did manage to find The Dragon's Tomb.

Having read only the middle book, I have a few questions, if someone would humor me w/o giving away too many spoilers...

What's the deal with Braddoc?!?
Is Flynn Immortal, or has Duilanna just sent him back to destroy the abelat?
The Abelaats are a GREAT new creature--has Jamie created them? I know their crystals appeared in a TR mod, but they were never done.
Are Karleah and Dyan lycanthropes, or a new class of wizard/herbalist... If the latter, I've already got some great ideas for the "Witch" class...

Roger
#2
npc_dave
Mar 23, 2007 18:00:17
Last weekend, VGeisz had informed me that he found The Tainted Sword at his local book exchange. By the time I got there, all 4 copies were already sold... however I did manage to find The Dragon's Tomb.

Having read only the middle book, I have a few questions, if someone would humor me w/o giving away too many spoilers...

What's the deal with Braddoc?!?
Is Flynn Immortal, or has Duilanna just sent him back to destroy the abelat?
The Abelaats are a GREAT new creature--has Jamie created them? I know their crystals appeared in a TR mod, but they were never done.
Are Karleah and Dyan lycanthropes, or a new class of wizard/herbalist... If the latter, I've already got some great ideas for the "Witch" class...

Roger

It has been awhile since I read it, but I do remember some things.

Forgot about Braddoc, cannot help you there.

Yes Flynn is an Immortal.

I do recall seeing fan created stats for Abelaats, I don't think they have appeared in any game product like a Monster Manual.

I wouldn't say Karleah and Dyan are a new type of class, the books don't always use standard D&D tropes, but you could model them using PC4 Lycanthrope rules, which were essentially dual-class/multi-class rules.
#3
yellowdingo
Mar 24, 2007 1:19:39 Tainted Sword: the only book in the trilogy I dont have.

I Hear there is Dark Knight of Mystara? and the Black Vessel? They might be interesting reads if i can ever find them.
#4
gawain_viii
Mar 24, 2007 3:21:08 Black Vessel IS a good book.. if you can get past the first few rather dry chapters....

As far as Flinn's immortality...I figure, that the time is after 970, because the duke is in charge... but before 1007 cuz he's not a king yet... I'm likely to think, cuz of the description of Threshold, its closer to 970...
However, the roads are already built, so does 985 sound about right to y'all?... If so, then Flinn (as an Immortal) should be just strong enough to start collecting regular followers (under Duilanna's watchful eye) about 1020? (note to Almanac editors)...

Am I off the mark? Thoughts, comments...

Roger
#5
havard
Mar 24, 2007 3:38:29 One of my favorite topics! With the exception of the first novel, the trilogy isn't that great as far as literary quality goes, but it is a wonderful resource for ideas for your Karameikos campaign.

Flinn becomes an Immortal through the series. In the Thunder Rift project, I made him an Immortal of Chivalry with Thor as his sponsor.

Karleah is probably a magic user, though if you want to create a witch class, she would be ideal for it.

Dayin is something else entirely, as revealed in Fall of Magic. ;)

Braddoc is a dwarven Cleric of Kagyar. It is also implied that he is part of the royal family of Rockhome, though IMC I changed it to him being
part of the ruling family of the Stronghollow clan of the Karameikos Dwarves.

Here is an excerpt from my Thunder Rift timeline, where I integrated the events of the Penhaligon Trilogy:

AC 1001
Penhaligon is made a Barony.

AC 1002 The Tainted Sword
Abelaats appear in Penhaligon. The dragon Verdilith wrecks havoc on Bywater, also destroying Artisticles' Red Granite Tower on the way. With the help of Johauna Menhir, Sir Fain Flinn regains his honour at the Penhaligon court and sets out to kill his nemesis, the green dragon Verdilith. (Detailed in novel The Tainted Sword, effects can also be seen in Escape from Thunder Rift.)

Some Abelaats find their way into Thunder Rift. (non-canon).

AC 1003 The Dragon's Tomb
Johauna Menhir learns more about the Abelaats who plague Karameikos. Johauna slays Verdilith. Fain Flinn is resurrected and embarks on the path to Immortality with the aid of Braddock, the dwarf. A gate is opened to the Abelaat homeworld into Karameikan Armstead. Karameikan Armstead destroyed. (Detailed in the novel the Dragons Tomb)

AC 1004 The Fall of Magic
Massive Abelaat invasions of Karameikos. Penhaligon destroyed. Baroness Arteris barely escapes. With the help of the Immortal Flinn, Johauna Menhir stops the invasions. (Detailed in the novel The Fall of Magic.)

AC 1005
Johauna Menhir discovers the gate to Thunder Rift and enters the Valley, believing all her friends back in Karameikos to be dead. She takes up hunting down the Abelaat who made their way into the valley, and spreads the faith of the Immortal Flinn and the code of Chivalry to Thunder Rift's inhabitants. (non-canon.)

Reconstruction of Penhaligon begins. (Extrapolation from The Fall of Magic and K:KoA.)

AC 1009
Reconstruction of Penhaligon is completed, but it loses its baronial status, and is now once again only considered an estate. (Extrapolation from Penhaligon Trilogy and K:KoA).

Read the timeline here:
http://pandius.com/th_rift.html

Hope this helps!

Havard
#6
jtrithen
Mar 25, 2007 2:02:20 Agreed, The Black Vessel was a good book. I didn't love the climax, but it was a fun read, had interesting characters, and created a good, believable atmostphere and setting (IMO) for the Savage Coast.

Also agreed, havard, The Penhaligon trilogy is not very good writing (the last book was really weird, and quite unlike the other two in writing style; apparently, this happens when you have a "team" of writers -- not very good ones that didn't try to maintain some continuity in the rhythm of the storytelling -- write 3 books).

And, Dark KNight of Mystara was also not very good, IMO.

Just my 6 cents.
#7
natewis
Mar 25, 2007 10:04:17 I always hoped that Doug Niles would write a story about the conflict between Alphatia and Thyatis, or any good writer for that matter.
#8
the_stalker
Mar 25, 2007 15:34:19 The Penhaligon trilogy is not particularly good, if you ask me, and it only got worse as the plot unfolded. "The Tainted Sword" was decent fantasy, but "Dragon's Tomb" was a big step down, and "Fall of Magic" a major disappointment. IMHO, of course.

On the timeline, the plot is definitely set close to AC 1000, since Arteris Penhaligon is in charge, while her father has already died. And unlike Gaz1, which lists her as a "mere" Lady, "The Tainted Sword" mentions her as a Baroness. I'd place it after AC 1000, but before the events of WOTI begin in AC 1004.

Haven't read "The Black Vessel", but I thought both "Dark Knight of Karameikos" and "Son of Dawn" were decent fantasy novels, though nothing particularly interesting - their major attractions were that they are set in Mystara. "Dark Knight of Karameikos" is disliked by many Mystara-fans, because it clearly plays towards AD&D cosmology, particularly towards the end of the book. But if you can live with that, I'd recommend it as one of the better Mystara novels.
#9
havard
Mar 26, 2007 15:37:38
The Penhaligon trilogy is not particularly good, if you ask me, and it only got worse as the plot unfolded. "The Tainted Sword" was decent fantasy, but "Dragon's Tomb" was a big step down, and "Fall of Magic" a major disappointment. IMHO, of course.

I agree with that assessment. Too bad they didn't stick with the author of the first book all the way. I'm guessing he charged more on account of being a better writer so they pulled this scheme as a way of saving money. I used to know which writers DJ. Heinrich were, but I cant remember their names anymore. Anyone know?

On the timeline, the plot is definitely set close to AC 1000, since Arteris Penhaligon is in charge, while her father has already died. And unlike Gaz1, which lists her as a "mere" Lady, "The Tainted Sword" mentions her as a Baroness. I'd place it after AC 1000, but before the events of WOTI begin in AC 1004.

Fits pretty well with my timeline above, doesn't it? My assumption was that Penhaligon was made a Barony in AC1001 and was reduced to a Lordly Domain again after its destruction and reconstruction to keep it in line with K:KoA.

Haven't read "The Black Vessel", but I thought both "Dark Knight of Karameikos" and "Son of Dawn" were decent fantasy novels, though nothing particularly interesting - their major attractions were that they are set in Mystara. "Dark Knight of Karameikos" is disliked by many Mystara-fans, because it clearly plays towards AD&D cosmology, particularly towards the end of the book. But if you can live with that, I'd recommend it as one of the better Mystara novels.

I remember the Black Vessel as being better than the others you mention, though Dark Knight is close. The AD&D cosmology part annoyed me, but perhaps mostly because of one character's remark being: "Mystara, which one is that, the Hollow one?" or something like that. It just seemed like the author's way of saying how little he cared for the setting. He probably didnt mean it that way, but that was the impression I was left with.

Havard
#10
zombiegleemax
Apr 02, 2007 7:52:49 A little bit off-topic, but I hope you'll forgive me ;)

I'haven't read the Penhaligon Trilogy nor "tHe Black Vessel", so I cannot give you an informed opinion about them.

I've read "Dak Knight of Karameikos" and I found it quite boring, even if the plot is decent in itself. Maybe the author spent too much words to develop a plot that in my opinion could fit half of the pages.

The most enjoyable of the Mystaran Novels I've read so far is "Rogues to Riches". It is set in Norwold and it is quite fun. It has many jokes and nonsenses, but there is also a nice plot and many classical clichès of fantasy novels are dealt in a smart way. I'd definitely reccomend this book for reading. ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gawain_viii Mar 23, 2007 17:18:16	Last weekend, VGeisz had informed me that he found The Tainted Sword at his local book exchange. By the time I got there, all 4 copies were already sold... however I did manage to find The Dragon's Tomb. Having read only the middle book, I have a few questions, if someone would humor me w/o giving away too many spoilers... What's the deal with Braddoc?!? Is Flynn Immortal, or has Duilanna just sent him back to destroy the abelat? The Abelaats are a GREAT new creature--has Jamie created them? I know their crystals appeared in a TR mod, but they were never done. Are Karleah and Dyan lycanthropes, or a new class of wizard/herbalist... If the latter, I've already got some great ideas for the "Witch" class... Roger
#2 npc_dave Mar 23, 2007 18:00:17	Last weekend, VGeisz had informed me that he found The Tainted Sword at his local book exchange. By the time I got there, all 4 copies were already sold... however I did manage to find The Dragon's Tomb. Having read only the middle book, I have a few questions, if someone would humor me w/o giving away too many spoilers... What's the deal with Braddoc?!? Is Flynn Immortal, or has Duilanna just sent him back to destroy the abelat? The Abelaats are a GREAT new creature--has Jamie created them? I know their crystals appeared in a TR mod, but they were never done. Are Karleah and Dyan lycanthropes, or a new class of wizard/herbalist... If the latter, I've already got some great ideas for the "Witch" class... Roger It has been awhile since I read it, but I do remember some things. Forgot about Braddoc, cannot help you there. Yes Flynn is an Immortal. I do recall seeing fan created stats for Abelaats, I don't think they have appeared in any game product like a Monster Manual. I wouldn't say Karleah and Dyan are a new type of class, the books don't always use standard D&D tropes, but you could model them using PC4 Lycanthrope rules, which were essentially dual-class/multi-class rules.
#3 yellowdingo Mar 24, 2007 1:19:39	Tainted Sword: the only book in the trilogy I dont have. I Hear there is Dark Knight of Mystara? and the Black Vessel? They might be interesting reads if i can ever find them.
#4 gawain_viii Mar 24, 2007 3:21:08	Black Vessel IS a good book.. if you can get past the first few rather dry chapters.... As far as Flinn's immortality...I figure, that the time is after 970, because the duke is in charge... but before 1007 cuz he's not a king yet... I'm likely to think, cuz of the description of Threshold, its closer to 970... However, the roads are already built, so does 985 sound about right to y'all?... If so, then Flinn (as an Immortal) should be just strong enough to start collecting regular followers (under Duilanna's watchful eye) about 1020? (note to Almanac editors)... Am I off the mark? Thoughts, comments... Roger
#5 havard Mar 24, 2007 3:38:29	One of my favorite topics! With the exception of the first novel, the trilogy isn't that great as far as literary quality goes, but it is a wonderful resource for ideas for your Karameikos campaign. Flinn becomes an Immortal through the series. In the Thunder Rift project, I made him an Immortal of Chivalry with Thor as his sponsor. Karleah is probably a magic user, though if you want to create a witch class, she would be ideal for it. Dayin is something else entirely, as revealed in Fall of Magic. ;) Braddoc is a dwarven Cleric of Kagyar. It is also implied that he is part of the royal family of Rockhome, though IMC I changed it to him being part of the ruling family of the Stronghollow clan of the Karameikos Dwarves. Here is an excerpt from my Thunder Rift timeline, where I integrated the events of the Penhaligon Trilogy: AC 1001 Penhaligon is made a Barony. AC 1002 The Tainted Sword Abelaats appear in Penhaligon. The dragon Verdilith wrecks havoc on Bywater, also destroying Artisticles' Red Granite Tower on the way. With the help of Johauna Menhir, Sir Fain Flinn regains his honour at the Penhaligon court and sets out to kill his nemesis, the green dragon Verdilith. (Detailed in novel The Tainted Sword, effects can also be seen in Escape from Thunder Rift.) Some Abelaats find their way into Thunder Rift. (non-canon). AC 1003 The Dragon's Tomb Johauna Menhir learns more about the Abelaats who plague Karameikos. Johauna slays Verdilith. Fain Flinn is resurrected and embarks on the path to Immortality with the aid of Braddock, the dwarf. A gate is opened to the Abelaat homeworld into Karameikan Armstead. Karameikan Armstead destroyed. (Detailed in the novel the Dragons Tomb) AC 1004 The Fall of Magic Massive Abelaat invasions of Karameikos. Penhaligon destroyed. Baroness Arteris barely escapes. With the help of the Immortal Flinn, Johauna Menhir stops the invasions. (Detailed in the novel The Fall of Magic.) AC 1005 Johauna Menhir discovers the gate to Thunder Rift and enters the Valley, believing all her friends back in Karameikos to be dead. She takes up hunting down the Abelaat who made their way into the valley, and spreads the faith of the Immortal Flinn and the code of Chivalry to Thunder Rift's inhabitants. (non-canon.) Reconstruction of Penhaligon begins. (Extrapolation from The Fall of Magic and K:KoA.) AC 1009 Reconstruction of Penhaligon is completed, but it loses its baronial status, and is now once again only considered an estate. (Extrapolation from Penhaligon Trilogy and K:KoA). Read the timeline here: http://pandius.com/th_rift.html Hope this helps! Havard
#6 jtrithen Mar 25, 2007 2:02:20	Agreed, The Black Vessel was a good book. I didn't love the climax, but it was a fun read, had interesting characters, and created a good, believable atmostphere and setting (IMO) for the Savage Coast. Also agreed, havard, The Penhaligon trilogy is not very good writing (the last book was really weird, and quite unlike the other two in writing style; apparently, this happens when you have a "team" of writers -- not very good ones that didn't try to maintain some continuity in the rhythm of the storytelling -- write 3 books). And, Dark KNight of Mystara was also not very good, IMO. Just my 6 cents.
#7 natewis Mar 25, 2007 10:04:17	I always hoped that Doug Niles would write a story about the conflict between Alphatia and Thyatis, or any good writer for that matter.
#8 the_stalker Mar 25, 2007 15:34:19	The Penhaligon trilogy is not particularly good, if you ask me, and it only got worse as the plot unfolded. "The Tainted Sword" was decent fantasy, but "Dragon's Tomb" was a big step down, and "Fall of Magic" a major disappointment. IMHO, of course. On the timeline, the plot is definitely set close to AC 1000, since Arteris Penhaligon is in charge, while her father has already died. And unlike Gaz1, which lists her as a "mere" Lady, "The Tainted Sword" mentions her as a Baroness. I'd place it after AC 1000, but before the events of WOTI begin in AC 1004. Haven't read "The Black Vessel", but I thought both "Dark Knight of Karameikos" and "Son of Dawn" were decent fantasy novels, though nothing particularly interesting - their major attractions were that they are set in Mystara. "Dark Knight of Karameikos" is disliked by many Mystara-fans, because it clearly plays towards AD&D cosmology, particularly towards the end of the book. But if you can live with that, I'd recommend it as one of the better Mystara novels.
#9 havard Mar 26, 2007 15:37:38	The Penhaligon trilogy is not particularly good, if you ask me, and it only got worse as the plot unfolded. "The Tainted Sword" was decent fantasy, but "Dragon's Tomb" was a big step down, and "Fall of Magic" a major disappointment. IMHO, of course. I agree with that assessment. Too bad they didn't stick with the author of the first book all the way. I'm guessing he charged more on account of being a better writer so they pulled this scheme as a way of saving money. I used to know which writers DJ. Heinrich were, but I cant remember their names anymore. Anyone know? On the timeline, the plot is definitely set close to AC 1000, since Arteris Penhaligon is in charge, while her father has already died. And unlike Gaz1, which lists her as a "mere" Lady, "The Tainted Sword" mentions her as a Baroness. I'd place it after AC 1000, but before the events of WOTI begin in AC 1004. Fits pretty well with my timeline above, doesn't it? My assumption was that Penhaligon was made a Barony in AC1001 and was reduced to a Lordly Domain again after its destruction and reconstruction to keep it in line with K:KoA. Haven't read "The Black Vessel", but I thought both "Dark Knight of Karameikos" and "Son of Dawn" were decent fantasy novels, though nothing particularly interesting - their major attractions were that they are set in Mystara. "Dark Knight of Karameikos" is disliked by many Mystara-fans, because it clearly plays towards AD&D cosmology, particularly towards the end of the book. But if you can live with that, I'd recommend it as one of the better Mystara novels. I remember the Black Vessel as being better than the others you mention, though Dark Knight is close. The AD&D cosmology part annoyed me, but perhaps mostly because of one character's remark being: "Mystara, which one is that, the Hollow one?" or something like that. It just seemed like the author's way of saying how little he cared for the setting. He probably didnt mean it that way, but that was the impression I was left with. Havard
#10 zombiegleemax Apr 02, 2007 7:52:49	A little bit off-topic, but I hope you'll forgive me ;) I'haven't read the Penhaligon Trilogy nor "tHe Black Vessel", so I cannot give you an informed opinion about them. I've read "Dak Knight of Karameikos" and I found it quite boring, even if the plot is decent in itself. Maybe the author spent too much words to develop a plot that in my opinion could fit half of the pages. The most enjoyable of the Mystaran Novels I've read so far is "Rogues to Riches". It is set in Norwold and it is quite fun. It has many jokes and nonsenses, but there is also a nice plot and many classical clichès of fantasy novels are dealt in a smart way. I'd definitely reccomend this book for reading. ;)