Okay...so I want to work out one or more Epic spells that can explain the entire "imprisoning Rajaat" process. At first I thought it'd be a pretty straight-forward matter, but as soon as cnahumck posted this:
From the Valley of Dust and Fire, page 74
The Black Sphere: In the exact center of the Dragon’s Sanctum is a strange monument or marker known as the Black Sphere. Only the Dragon and the Dead Lords have ever seen it; the Dead Lords know nothing about it, and the Dragon never discusses it. The Black Sphere appears to be smooth, black stone, 12’ in diameter. It hovers four feet above the floor of a shallow pit 30’ in diameter and 10’ deep. The sphere’s equator is level with the ground beyond the depression. The Black Sphere is the only structure in the Dragon’s Sanctum. It radiates intensely powerful magic of all schools. No attack of any kind can harm it.
(Moved from another thread...sorry for starting that major derailment ;) )
Okay...so I want to work out one or more Epic spells that can explain the entire "imprisoning Rajaat" process. At first I thought it'd be a pretty straight-forward matter, but as soon as cnahumck posted this:
...and I did some *extremely* basic calculations, namely that a 12' sphere comes out to be 900 cubic feet, I quickly came to the conclusion that this is going to get much more involved than I thought - simply to create an obsidian sphere of that size would require a Spellcraft DC of 1700+, and even if I make the damn thing hollow it's still over 1000.
So - what fluff do we actually have to go on here? There's the quote (above) from VoDaF - so what does it say in The Cerulean Storm when the SK's are trying to re-imprison them? I don't have access to that source at the moment (I just moved, so it's packed away), but here's what I'd love quotes on:
1) What did the (re-)imprisonment spell "look" like?
2) How many SKs were involved in it?
3) How many SKs were using psionics against Rajaat at the same time, and what did it "look" like?
etc...info like that.
1) CS pg. 311-312: Hamanu and Nibenay pointed towards the Dark Lens, roaring their incantations to cast their spells. Tiny streams of absolute blackness shot out from their fingertips into the orb. The currents came out on the other side magnified into great rivers and washed over Rajaat, swallowing Rikus and Tithian on the way.
The Oba and Andropinis attacked next, facing each other and waving their hands in the empty air. They kept their eyes fixed on the ebony murk that had engulfed Rajaat, and soon the dark mass began to assume the shape of a sphere. When the globe was perfectly round, the two sorcerers moved closer together. The Black orb holding Rajaat began to shrink.
2) five, in the CS.
3)Two were using psionics (Andy and the Oba) and two were using magic (Hamanu and Nibenay) with Tec holding the Dark Lens. How it looked is above. It seems that it was both an Epic spell and an Epic power.
...and I did some *extremely* basic calculations, namely that a 12' sphere comes out to be 900 cubic feet, I quickly came to the conclusion that this is going to get much more involved than I thought - simply to create an obsidian sphere of that size would require a Spellcraft DC of 1700+, and even if I make the damn thing hollow it's still over 1000.
I would assume that, despite the fact that it looks like obsidian, it is really just the physical manifestation of Rajaat's prison and would require no special effort to create, beyond simply casting the imprisonment spell. That of course is another matter. And even if it were an obsidian sphere of 12' diameter it seems a powerful epic spellcaster could find a way to simply enlarge a perfectly round obsidian pebble to the appropriate size.
Lost Empires of Faerun has a Mythal seed which can use a capstone (ie the 12' sphere) to anchor the epic spell. The Mythal would create a demiplane of imprisonment for Rajaat with the obsidian sphere. The Mythal can also deteriorate which would require the annual levy to reenegise the Mythal. Book of Vile Darkness has rules for using lifeforce to reduce the xp used to power a spell. It would be reasonable to me to apply this to epic spells. The 7000 levy from memory would provide 21000xp worth of mitigating factors to reduce the spellcraft DC.
Essentially Rajaats imprisonment spell to me would be an epic vile mythal spell that after 100 odd years starts to break down but to be safe the champions recast it every year. the Dragon was insane for a few years after his transformation and the spell almost collapsed. You can also pump the saving throw up by 1 DC for every +2 you add to the spellcraft check to cast the spell. Anywhere form +50 to +100 to the spell saves DC should ensure Rajaat can only make the save on a natural 20. That would mean the spells save would be around 70-120+champions intelligence modifier save DC.
Hope this helps. Lost Empires of Faerun, Players Guide to Faerun and Dragons of Faerun all have various epic spells in them which are interesting to see how they done the mechanics behind them. You want a global spell or a epic spell to last 10000 years (or both) and they have them.
I had some great ideas this morning on the way to work and thing I could pull it off - so be ready.
I'd rather not use any of the non-OGL seeds for obvious reasons, although I do think the idea of having the obsidian not actually be a solid obsidian orb, as such - especially given the book descriptions - makes sense. Also, breaking it into both an epic spell and an epic power, something I was already contemplating, will help.
As for the levy/breakdown issue, I had a work-around for that, basically just set a 100-year duration on the intial spell (the Dragon was insane for 83 years, I think, so I figured 100 or 101 years made sense...especially since a lot of "banishment"/"imprisonment"-type spells seem to like those numbers), and then have a "revitalization" version of the spell that is basically identical to the original except that it has a shorter duration and uses the levy mitigation to knock off enough of the DC to bring it down to something that Borys could do by himself.
...and, on the subject of DCs, what is the "official" (athas.org) modifier for epic spells cast through the Dark Lens? Since they used the Lens for the spell, I see no reason why you wouldn't include it in the actual spell's creation...especially since (in the CS) it was pretty obvious that they were just casting the same spell they used on Rajaat the first time.
ASAIK there is no official modifier for the dark lens. Check Dregoth Acending 3 fo the pristine tower though.
The PT is +50, but the second time the Champions use the spell/power against Rajaat they're in Ur-Draxa and so nowhere near the tower.
The PT is +50, but the second time the Champions use the spell/power against Rajaat they're in Ur-Draxa and so nowhere near the tower.
And there are less of them casting the spell - though in theory, they also have a higher ranks in spellcraft.
One thing to note is this though - the PT could be like a participant in a ritual spell - the spell can still be cast, but the DC is increased by the amount that would usually be reduced by having the additonal participant. So say the spell was orginally created to be cast by 8 SKs - each contibuting a 7th level spell slot (or the equivilant in power points) - which would be a -104 mitigating factor to the DC. Then in the casting of the spell in the Dragon's Sanctum, there are 5 SKs casting the spell, but each contributes an Epic spell slot /power point equivilant - which would be a -95 mitigating factor to the DC. So the net increase to the DC of the spellcraft to cast the spell would be 9.
Now, I do not know if you can design an epic spell that called for one type of spell slot, then use another one, but, it stands to reason that if the number of participants can be decreased for an increased DC to the spellcraft, than one could also add participants (as long as there were some designed to be there in the orginal spell) and or use a higher spell slot.
Sooo....perhaps the spell was only ever intended for 2 individuals to cast (probably Borys and Gallard during the original rebellion), while the (possible) epic power(s) is a totally secondary thing, and only makes an appearance in the CS because the SKs realized that they couldn't cast the imprisonment spell unless Rajaat was unable to actively resist them (such as by being 'tied up' in a mental battle).
Just rambling/musing at this point. ;)