Avenger PrC - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Avenger PrC

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
havard
Apr 01, 2007 6:21:38 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a

Interestingly, this version of the Avenger cannot be of Chaotic alignment. Still, it seems suprisingly similar to how many people say they used to play the Classic D&D fighter option.

Thoughts?

Havard
#2
agathokles
Apr 01, 2007 6:37:39
Interestingly, this version of the Avenger cannot be of Chaotic alignment. Still, it seems suprisingly similar to how many people say they used to play the Classic D&D fighter option.

Actually, beyond the name, I don't see any relation between the two: the OD&D Avenger is a fighter devoted to a Chaotic church, who receives Paladin-like powers (clerical magic, power over the undead). This one is a secret agent/state assassin type, with some wizardly magic and mostly thieving/stealth abilities.
So we have a Chaotic 2/3 Fighter 1/3 Cleric on one side, and a non-Chaotic 2/3 Thief 1/3 Wizard on the other... it seems to be exactly the opposite?

GP
#3
havard
Apr 01, 2007 7:46:33
Actually, beyond the name, I don't see any relation between the two: the OD&D Avenger is a fighter devoted to a Chaotic church, who receives Paladin-like powers (clerical magic, power over the undead). This one is a secret agent/state assassin type, with some wizardly magic and mostly thieving/stealth abilities.
So we have a Chaotic 2/3 Fighter 1/3 Cleric on one side, and a non-Chaotic 2/3 Thief 1/3 Wizard on the other... it seems to be exactly the opposite?

I tend to agree with you, but I have seen many people play OD&D Avengers as a Batman-type character. Seems to fit this version even better than how I read the OD&D Avenger

Havard
#4
agathokles
Apr 01, 2007 9:04:30
I tend to agree with you, but I have seen many people play OD&D Avengers as a Batman-type character. Seems to fit this version even better than how I read the OD&D Avenger

Uhm, Batman seems to me quite CG (e.g., in "The Dark Knight Returns"), as well as a front-line fighter rather than a stealthy character.
Also, I'd say there are classes more appropriate to the vigilante-stlye -- typically urban ranger variants in 3e, or the Avenger from 2e Ravenloft, which also has a Paladin-like variant (Knight of the Shadows).

I'd say the OD&D Avenger doesn't really fit the vigilante archetype, and is more appropriately rendered by the Defender kit in AD&D 2e, or variant paladins in 3e.
#5
Cthulhudrew
Apr 01, 2007 9:42:10 Hm- aside from the alignment differences, I don't see any mechanical changes from the Assassin PrC from the DMG. Seems to me that a variant would be more... variable. At the very least, there doesn't seem to have been any reason for them to have reprinted the class; they should have just directed one to the DMG with the only alteration the alignment, and then the flavor text later.
#6
agathokles
Apr 01, 2007 10:17:58
Hm- aside from the alignment differences, I don't see any mechanical changes from the Assassin PrC from the DMG. Seems to me that a variant would be more... variable. At the very least, there doesn't seem to have been any reason for them to have reprinted the class; they should have just directed one to the DMG with the only alteration the alignment, and then the flavor text later.

Well, being an April's Fool article, you could expect something to be amiss ;)
#7
Cthulhudrew
Apr 01, 2007 18:09:08
Well, being an April's Fool article, you could expect something to be amiss ;)

That's what I was thinking. On the one hand, they freely own up to it as an April Fool's article, but then they present the information in such a serious, straightforward manner, I'm just not sure what to make of it. I think the flavor text is interesting, and provides an alternative to looking at the class, but I'd have liked to have seen some (even just very slight) differences.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 havard Apr 01, 2007 6:21:38	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a Interestingly, this version of the Avenger cannot be of Chaotic alignment. Still, it seems suprisingly similar to how many people say they used to play the Classic D&D fighter option. Thoughts? Havard
#2 agathokles Apr 01, 2007 6:37:39	Interestingly, this version of the Avenger cannot be of Chaotic alignment. Still, it seems suprisingly similar to how many people say they used to play the Classic D&D fighter option. Actually, beyond the name, I don't see any relation between the two: the OD&D Avenger is a fighter devoted to a Chaotic church, who receives Paladin-like powers (clerical magic, power over the undead). This one is a secret agent/state assassin type, with some wizardly magic and mostly thieving/stealth abilities. So we have a Chaotic 2/3 Fighter 1/3 Cleric on one side, and a non-Chaotic 2/3 Thief 1/3 Wizard on the other... it seems to be exactly the opposite? GP
#3 havard Apr 01, 2007 7:46:33	Actually, beyond the name, I don't see any relation between the two: the OD&D Avenger is a fighter devoted to a Chaotic church, who receives Paladin-like powers (clerical magic, power over the undead). This one is a secret agent/state assassin type, with some wizardly magic and mostly thieving/stealth abilities. So we have a Chaotic 2/3 Fighter 1/3 Cleric on one side, and a non-Chaotic 2/3 Thief 1/3 Wizard on the other... it seems to be exactly the opposite? I tend to agree with you, but I have seen many people play OD&D Avengers as a Batman-type character. Seems to fit this version even better than how I read the OD&D Avenger Havard
#4 agathokles Apr 01, 2007 9:04:30	I tend to agree with you, but I have seen many people play OD&D Avengers as a Batman-type character. Seems to fit this version even better than how I read the OD&D Avenger Uhm, Batman seems to me quite CG (e.g., in "The Dark Knight Returns"), as well as a front-line fighter rather than a stealthy character. Also, I'd say there are classes more appropriate to the vigilante-stlye -- typically urban ranger variants in 3e, or the Avenger from 2e Ravenloft, which also has a Paladin-like variant (Knight of the Shadows). I'd say the OD&D Avenger doesn't really fit the vigilante archetype, and is more appropriately rendered by the Defender kit in AD&D 2e, or variant paladins in 3e.
#5 Cthulhudrew Apr 01, 2007 9:42:10	Hm- aside from the alignment differences, I don't see any mechanical changes from the Assassin PrC from the DMG. Seems to me that a variant would be more... variable. At the very least, there doesn't seem to have been any reason for them to have reprinted the class; they should have just directed one to the DMG with the only alteration the alignment, and then the flavor text later.
#6 agathokles Apr 01, 2007 10:17:58	Hm- aside from the alignment differences, I don't see any mechanical changes from the Assassin PrC from the DMG. Seems to me that a variant would be more... variable. At the very least, there doesn't seem to have been any reason for them to have reprinted the class; they should have just directed one to the DMG with the only alteration the alignment, and then the flavor text later. Well, being an April's Fool article, you could expect something to be amiss ;)
#7 Cthulhudrew Apr 01, 2007 18:09:08	Well, being an April's Fool article, you could expect something to be amiss ;) That's what I was thinking. On the one hand, they freely own up to it as an April Fool's article, but then they present the information in such a serious, straightforward manner, I'm just not sure what to make of it. I think the flavor text is interesting, and provides an alternative to looking at the class, but I'd have liked to have seen some (even just very slight) differences.