Sysane;11971305 wrote:
In any case I think this is a nice idea; I always had a problem with the whole "going to ground" idea regarding the Order post-Dragon's Crown.
...or an obsidian sphere in which they've created said mindscape.
Frankly, I feel that obsidian orbs have been beat to death. Time for some other semiprecious gem to shine (pun intended :P )
What about a large gem (soccer ball sized) of some sort in which the Order members are able mentally transfer their physical form into. Once inside, the gem is actually a huge mult-level crystalline complex.
I had the idea of something like the ability I had seen in the Manual of the Planes - but I really liked the idea of it being a mindscape and not a different plane - so having the area contained in a creatures mind would be the only why IMO to have a true mindscape.
...or an obsidian sphere in which they've created said mindscape.
In any case I think this is a nice idea; I always had a problem with the whole "going to ground" idea regarding the Order post-Dragon's Crown.
See above in regards to the obsidian/gem thing
- but as an additional note - it could work, but I think obsidian is over-used and would like to go a more unique route, but that is me.Try not to think of it as "going to ground" but as a consolidation of their power and a reorginization of their corporate structure
Where as beofore, each member was more or less an independant contractor, they would now be more of a full-time employee under direct supervision.
I had the idea of something like the ability I had seen in the Manual of the Planes - but I really liked the idea of it being a mindscape and not a different plane - so having the area contained in a creatures mind would be the only why IMO to have a true mindscape.
It could be that the mindscape is contained inside of the gem which in turn is held in place by an epic level telepath located in the middle of its crystalline center.
It could be that the mindscape is contained inside of the gem which is in turn held in place by an epic level telepath located in the middle of the crystalline center.
Interesting - he could be like the deus ex machina of the realm...
Interesting - he could be like the deus ex machina of the realm...
Exactly. If he is slain, the mindscape would collapse in on itself.
Exactly. If he is slain, the mindscape would collapse in on itself.
Maybe not a gem or obsidian - but a shard of the psionatrix...
Maybe not a gem or obsidian - but a shard of the psionatrix...
I don't know about that. Its strike me as odd that something that was used to inhibit the use of psionics on could be used to create a demiplane of thought. That might just be me though.
Dread Masters Crown
Hoink hoink, my personal opinion here: Psionics should thematically be unrelated to necromantically animating the dead.
The weird happenings in Dragon's Crown - controlling of the dead and of golems by members of the Order - seems to me to be psionics controlling the animated creatures the Wind Mages left in Dasaraches.
Hoink hoink, my personal opinion here: Psionics should thematically be unrelated to necromantically animating the dead.
The weird happenings in Dragon's Crown - controlling of the dead and of golems by members of the Order - seems to me to be psionics controlling the animated creatures the Wind Mages left in Dasaraches.
I told you about the crown before - and it has nothing to do with undead what-so-ever :D
Man - I really should finish that item...
Sysane, your comment that Kal quotes in his first post would work very well for other settings, but IMO everything in DS screams of a down to earth, real-world involvement. No one would want to go off-world. This...mentality reaches as far as the SKs - epic beings - barely using any magic/psionics at all, compared to those crazy use-it-all Neteril guys who daily brush their teeths using toothbrushes powered by giant flying artifacts...
I'm not suggesting that they would have an HQ in places like the Astral or Ethereal Planes, but a unique quasi plane along the lines of the mindscape but held within the confines of a large gem. Its really not that far fetched. Especially when you consider things like psyches being locked into obsidian orbs and the crafting of extra dimensional prisons are already the norm for the setting.
The mindscape is not in one of the CM voluntarily. Instead the Order built the sanctuary in Phasistes's mindscape. Phasistes did not die at the battle of dragon crown, but instead is hovering at death's door. The remaining leaders of the Order stabilize him and keep him in that condition, and then use his mind, unwillingly as their sanctuary.
How about this?
The mindscape is not in one of the CM voluntarily. Instead the Order built the sanctuary in Phasistes's mindscape. Phasistes did not die at the battle of dragon crown, but instead is hovering at death's door. The remaining leaders of the Order stabilize him and keep him in that condition, and then use his mind, unwillingly as their sanctuary.
I dig this idea. It would be sort of a punishment for the whole Dragon's Crown affair that was doled out by the surviving Order members.
) . Because they have two very strong beliefs "Psionics should only be studied for its own sake and psionic talents should only be used to preserve the natural order" I don't think they would make grandiose demiplanes or such as a HQ.In the Phasistes's mind scenario, what would happen to the order if he died?
That the Way would go unchecked and those unworthy of it would run rampart across the Tyr Region.
Because they have two very strong beliefs "Psionics should only be studied for its own sake and psionic talents should only be used to preserve the natural order" I don't think they would make grandiose demiplanes or such as a HQ.
So, the exploration of harnessing the mind to create a realm of pure thought doesn't fall into that category?
I'm not suggesting that they would have an HQ in places like the Astral or Ethereal Planes, but a unique quasi plane along the lines of the mindscape but held within the confines of a large gem. Its really not that far fetched. Especially when you consider things like psyches being locked into obsidian orbs and the crafting of extra dimensional prisons are already the norm for the setting.
There's also the "Concordance"(?) thing that the Veiled Alliance(?) does, where everyone appears as nondescript orbs of light or something in a telepathic-ish space to discuss things without giving away their identities. So there's something else to back this concept up.
(...assuming I'm not making that up entirely. I'm pretty sure there's something about it in the VA book, but since I've since used several variations of it in my campaigns I'm no longer positive what is original material and what is stuff I made up)
There's also the "Concordance"(?) thing that the Veiled Alliance(?) does, where everyone appears as nondescript orbs of light or something in a telepathic-ish space to discuss things without giving away their identities. So there's something else to back this concept up.
This sounds vaguely familar. I'm pretty sure its out of the Veiled Alliance source book.
If this is true, it definitely has bearing on this concept being a possibility.
I also had the same thought of having Phasistes survive, but in a vegie-like state. I was not a fan of the idea and thought I would get a pelting of sticks and stones, so I said nothing, but it appears that there are others out there who share this idea (and have a pretty good DR too), but I am unconvinced that this would still not violate the natural order that they seek to maintain.
All that being said - I am also having some second thougths on the mindscape thing - but at the same time still like the idea
Didn't the end of Dragon's Crown state that the surviving Order members were going to rethink their precepts and their role on Athas?
Here's something to chew on.
Didn't the end of Dragon's Crown state that the surviving Order members were going to rethink their precepts and their role on Athas?
Check this out.
The Order
The Order is a society of high-level psionicists from all over Athas. It exists to ensure that strict neutrality and balance are maintained by masters of the psionic arts. In the Order’s view, psionics can be an unbalancing force and must therefore be monitored carefully. Only those with the wisdom to restrain themselves from interfering in Athasian society can be allowed to continue using mental powers past a certain point.
The Order is composed of psionicists of 21st level and higher. The members follow a common agenda, but rarely try to coordinate efforts. There is one exception to this rule when the Order decides that a rogue psionicist must be hunted down and destroyed. Members of the Order never speak of the society’s existence to anyone except another member or a psionicist being approached concerning membership.
At this time, the Order is suffering the worst internal turmoil in its centuries-long history. Two years ago, the leader of the Order, a powerful telepath named Pharistes subdued the other leaders and launched a campaign of psionic purification across the entire Tyr region. Using a mystical gem known as the Psionatrix, he created a psionic suppression field that prevented anyone but members of the Order from using psionics. Pharistes was defeated by a group of rebels. The Psionatrix was destroyed and the psionic suppression ended. The cost was high-almost half the Order died in a single day of fighting in Pharistes’ fortress in the Dragon Crown Mountains. Since the Dragon’s Crown incident, the Order has been very unsure of itself. Its agenda is under review, and policies concerning new members and organizational leadership are still in question. For now, the Order as a whole is defunct, although individual members still try to carry out business as usual.
The senior member of the Order in the Tyr region is a human named Mandalis, who lives in the city of Tyr itself. He is a mediator, or supervisor, of the Order. Five entrants, or low level members, are assigned to him. The entrants include members in Nibenay, the Forest Ridge, Kled, Altaruk, and the Great Alluvial Sand Wastes.
While Mandalis tries to keep an eye on local happenings, the Order’s leaders continue to meet in the ruined fortress of Dasaraches to debate the organization’s future. Some of them argue that the Order should disband completely; others believe that the Order should openly declare itself, and still others think that they should return to the old methods.
But we have to ask outselves "How radicle of a shift will this be?"
As far as I'm concerned, the precedent is there for this mindscape/crystal/HQ concept to be developed. I'm sorry if others don't.
This is really a great opportunity to take the Order in a unique direction and advance the DS storyline somewhat if handled correctly.
Thanks Kal.
As far as I'm concerned, the precedent is there for this mindscape/crystal/HQ concept to be developed. I'm sorry if others don't.
This is really a great opportunity to take the Order in a unique direction and advance the Athasian storyline somewhat if done correctly.
I am not disagreeing with you - I too think it should be updated, but with great care to avoid f-ing it up.
So, the exploration of harnessing the mind to create a realm of pure thought doesn't fall into that category?
Why would they use Dasaraches if they thought a psionic realm would be better or more natural? I'm not saying your idea is not cool, it really is. I'm just saying that it doesn't sound "Orderish". It feels more psurlon than anything else.
I also had the same thought of having Phasistes survive, but in a vegie-like state.
Hmmm, veggie ;)
Why would they use Dasaraches if they thought a psionic realm would be better or more natural?
The lack of anywhere else go in the aftermath of the civil war within their organization. They're regrouping as pointed out in The Will & The Way excerpt that Kal posted. With time they could have agreed to create a new HQ in order to avoid detection from the SKs which surely would be monitoring their actions post Dragon's Crown.
I'm not saying your idea is not cool, it really is. I'm just saying that it doesn't sound "Orderish". It feels more psurlon than anything else.
Perhaps this idea stemmed from some psurlon lore? Wouldn't be the first time a member of The Order ripped off someone else's work (i.e the Wind Mages).
Why would they use Dasaraches if they thought a psionic realm would be better or more natural? I'm not saying your idea is not cool, it really is. I'm just saying that it doesn't sound "Orderish". It feels more psurlon than anything else.
maybe one member is a psurlon in disguise? some evil psurlon plot? or like mentioned above, inspired by psurlon?
Originally Posted by except from the Will and the Way
*giggles* Although you know what's coming, I still have to make a comment.
"Does that mean that your 'quote' is from everywhere and anyone, but not from The Will and the Way?"
*giggles* Although you know what's coming, I still have to make a comment.
"Does that mean that your 'quote' is from everywhere and anyone, but not from The Will and the Way?"
I would fong you if I could! :P
maybe one member is a psurlon in disguise? some evil psurlon plot? or like mentioned above, inspired by psurlon?
Yes! The psurlons WILL conquer the Athasian lands!
In my psurlons thread (see my sig) I came up with the idea that the catastrophe that sent the psurlons out of the Prime caused them to create accidently, by a freak accident, a unique mindscape where they were emprisoned.
Perhaps the epic manifesters of the Order studied the accident and repeated the feat - transfered in a free formed mindscape as purely mental form.
I like this a little better, because there is a problem with having a single entity acting as a vessel for the Order's HQ mindscape - that is that they would be willingly opening themselves up to lose everything in a single attack. If Pharistes, or whoever, were to be killed, the results would be disastrous. Being placed in a weakened state would only increase the likelyhood of an attack succeeding. So I say nay to the idea of a single creature/person acting as the mindscape host.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the host of this mindscape's physical body be on the Prime, ie. Athas vs. in the mindscape?
Depending on the process (i.e. how the epic level power was written up). But having it that the host's body was still on the Prime would be ill-conceived.
Wouldn't just manifesting genesis several times be much better?
Again, depending on how the process was written up. If you go by the strict wording of genesis, it would create a demiplane within the Astral, which on Athas would be the Grey.
Personally, I can't see the Order wanting anything to do with Grey. I feel they would want something that was a variation of the genesis power which would ground their HQ mindscape to Athas’ Prime Material. For those that watch Doctor Who, think something along the lines of the Tardis. A finite structure that holds a much large, but still finite, space.
If you go by the strict wording of genesis, it would create a demiplane within the Astral, which on Athas would be the Grey.
Not exactly.
You create a finite plane with limited access: a demiplane. Demiplanes created by this power are very small, very minor planes.
The demiplane is coterminous with the Astral Plane, not inside it.
BTW, according to page 8 of TotDL, the Astral exists on Athas.
The demiplane is coterminous with the Astral Plane, not inside it.
Eh, samantics.
BTW, according to page 8 of TotDL, the Astral exists on Athas.
News to me. Last I knew, it was cut off from Athas, hence the many debates about it being sealed off from rest of the multiverse.
I still stand that if the Order were to create a HQ it would be one in which they freely interact with Athas like a mindsscape rather than using genesis to create a domain on another plane. Plus, it works more thematically rather than having them achieve this thru a power that every manifester has access to.
I still stand that if the Order were to create a HQ it would be one in which they freely interact with Athas like a mindsscape rather than using genesis to create a domain on another plane. Plus, it works more thematically rather than having them achieve this thru a power that every manifester has access to.
IMO, it would be more likely that some Order members would create it as a safe haven after the events in Dragon's Crown. It would make more sense and wouldn't contradict canon.
Now it is getting interesting...
IMO, it would be more likely that some Order members would create it as a safe haven after the events in Dragon's Crown. It would make more sense and wouldn't contradict canon.
Now it is getting interesting...
Didn't I already propose this very same idea in this post?
The lack of anywhere else go in the aftermath of the civil war within their organization. They're regrouping as pointed out in The Will & The Way excerpt that Kal posted. With time they could have agreed to create a new HQ in order to avoid detection from the SKs which surely would be monitoring their actions post Dragon's Crown.
What about using an epic power similar to genisis, but specifically within a prexisting mindscape. Say they have Phasistes who is close to death. They take his mindscape and use the power within it. The Order then transfers his soul or mind or whatever into a large gem or obsidian sphere or whatever. Then it is like a demiplane within a mindscape. This demiplane could be guarded by some high level individuals, and then used for interesting things. The demiplane could be transfered to another creature if necessary. Say the Order cannot transfer Phasistes, so they keep him alive as long as possible then find a new being to hold the mindscape. At this point they start a quest, looking for a new "Keeper," could make for an interesting epic arch.
Pretty much what I've been getting at
Gald someone's on the same wave length :D
Didn't I already propose this very same idea in this post?
Yes, I was saying that this is the approach I like best.
Yes, I was saying that this is the approach I like best.
Sweet. This idea can be worked around this with little problem.