I'm still open for suggestions on that part (wich should be adressed on the post called "God in Planescape"...
Anyway, what i want to ask is are there any suggestions on planar travel specifically with earth. I can see examples in some of Roland's adventures of Planar travel (he does enter Faerie at some point), and Dante's Inferno might be a good example of a trip to the Nine Hells of Baator (haven't finished that yet). Certainly, egyptian mythology and Hindu might also offer suggestions
-I'd like other examples of Planar travel in historical mythology so i can build a good base of information.
-Second, how would I get my Pc's to reach Sigil from earth. Would they need to go through the shadow Plane? Should I place a portal to earth somewhere in Sigil, and if so where would make sense. Could Faerie be a good starting point? I figure Sigil would be a good startting point to go Plane hopping as they search for the truth ( As I said in the earlier posts, the campaign revolves around the religious conflicts of the Renaissance and the truth of God/Allah/Yaveh's message in an attempt to combat church corruption, to do that they have to search the Planes and try to piece together what has been changed from the original message and what is true)
-Third:Both for campaign purposes and logic, Earth should be very mysterious even to experienced Planar travelers, as well Primes from earth would be very rare. How should I keep this in game therms, should I have restrict access to planar travel spells (maybe make them incantations or rituals
). Maybe God/Yaveh/Allah has the power to prevent planar travel to earth?-Who would have knowledge of the Earth amongts Planar creatures (Aside from the Heavenly choirs that serve god and of course certain Baatazu as I've stated that Asmodeus will be the Devil in my campaign). Anything associated with religions that existed at one time or another on earth makes sense (Asgardian, Egyptian, etc). But in cannon Planescape would have information on earth? I'm asking this to give pcs access to possible allies and information sources during the campaign.
-Any suggestions on possible representations on planes in mythology (like mount Olympus being a location in Blessed Fields of Elysium) or where Valhalla might be etc...
Thanks in advance:D ...
-I'd like other examples of Planar travel in historical mythology so i can build a good base of information.
Orpheus, Odysseus and several other heroes descended into the Greek underworld. They enter via Hades from the Prime Material and from there can travel via planar conduits to Elysium and Carceri. Olympus is not visitable; attempts to do so by mortals are punished severely.
Enoch and Elijah were said to have ascended to Heaven without dying, although they have not returned to speak of the matter. Mohammed as well. (Elijah, to the Jews, will return to herald the coming of the Messiah, if I recall correctly.) The Apostles' Creed says Jesus briefly descended into Hell (one might assume Gehenna) between His death and resurrection, though little is otherwise said on this. However, other than near-death experiences, the Abrahamic religions speak very little about trips to other planes. Limbo in Catholic theology is very different from the plane of that name in Planescape.
Buddhist theology is one of the few religious traditions I have heard of that explicitly embraces the concept of alternate Prime Material worlds (i.e., other crystal spheres): constellations of worlds are said to revolve around millions of reflections of a mountain called Mt. Sumeru. Travel between these planes is not something I have heard much about, however.
Some modern groups, especially those that involve psychedelics in their activities, claim to be able to visit other planes in spirit, which would correspond to astral travel (leaving a body behind). D&D's notion of the "silver cord" comes from such descriptions of astral travel by modern psychics.
In general, however, planar travel is exceedingly difficult and a monumental spiritual journey in most real-world mythological sources.
-Second, how would I get my Pc's to reach Sigil from earth. Would they need to go through the shadow Plane? Should I place a portal to earth somewhere in Sigil, and if so where would make sense. Could Faerie be a good starting point?
-Third:Both for campaign purposes and logic, Earth should be very mysterious even to experienced Planar travelers, as well Primes from earth would be very rare. How should I keep this in game therms, should I have restrict access to planar travel spells (maybe make them incantations or rituals
Depends on which of Earth's myths you want to make true, and what time period you're starting from. Is this modern Earth or historical Earth, say around the time of medieval Europe?
Since you want to make planar travel from Earth rare, I suggest making it extremely difficult and dangerous, accessible only to the brave and the well-informed. In ancient times, one might take Odysseus' route, but manage to leave Elysium via a different exit and thereby reach the planes at large.
In Christian mythology, this is going to be very tricky indeed; there basically is no description of travel to the other realms in body, as far as I know, that humans initiate. Dante's descent into Hell is guided by the spirit of Virgil. Perhaps, since ascent in the spirit is very rarely mentioned, you might allow a practicing Christian receive an Astral Projection spell, sending them to the Astral Plane, there hoping to make contact with someone from the planes at large who can cast Gate from the Outer Planes to Earth.
Here's a notion: the Otz Chaim, the Tree of Life, is a Kabbalistic construct from Jewish mysticism. Perhaps in a Planescape campaign this Tree has at least a metaphorical reality, forming a staircase that is rooted physically in some place on Earth and can open a gate for one who knows the correct spells or kabbalistic words, leading someone from Earth to, say, Mt. Celestia.
-Who would have knowledge of the Earth amongts Planar creatures (Aside from the Heavenly choirs that serve god and of course certain Baatazu as I've stated that Asmodeus will be the Devil in my campaign).
Whoever you want. If the Earth you're using is medieval, it can be just another typical Prime Material Plane, and not one of any special interest at that, except to the creatures particularly associated with it. If the Earth you're using is modern and Planescape isn't, knowledge of high technology could very well shake the foundations of the planar order, and most likely Earth is a well-kept secret. For thoughts on an already-modern Planescape, check out the Urban Planescape project at www.planewalker.com.
But man
, that modern earth idea (Especially since I own d20 modern and Urban Arcana) is definetly something I'm writing down for future useI like that astral plane guide idea and the Odysseus idea. (can just see my Pc slinking into hades and scaring the minds aways
:evillaugh ). How does the idea that only certain locations can carry you out of the earth. (Fairy circles in Ireland, Wales, etc to get to Faerie). A gate to Hades might exist somewhere in Greece, Entrances to the Astral plane in the Hymmalyas etc.
Appart from that, I might implement a severe restriction to planar travel. God/Yaveh/Allah would prevent non-natives from simply planeshifting inside (As a Greater Power, he would be perfectly capable of this). For natives, the Kabalistic approach looks very nice as does the astral plane approach
Good suggestions Jem thank you, I'll work on it and come again shortly...
In Christian mythology, this is going to be very tricky indeed; there basically is no description of travel to the other realms in body, as far as I know, that humans initiate. Dante's descent into Hell is guided by the spirit of Virgil. Perhaps, since ascent in the spirit is very rarely mentioned, you might allow a practicing Christian receive an Astral Projection spell, sending them to the Astral Plane, there hoping to make contact with someone from the planes at large who can cast Gate from the Outer Planes to Earth.
Hmmn. This depends on what you consider to be 'okay'. Certainly Sir Orfeo describes some sort of Planar travel which is common enough in Medieval Romance, usually via the Wilderness.
Then there is Sir Owain, which is the story of the successful penitential visit of the sinful knight Sir Owain to Purgatory and the Earthly Paradise by way of "St. Patrick's Purgatory" on Lough Derg.
The Harrowing of Hell is the Middle English apocryphal accout of Jesus' descent into hell and overthrowing of the dungeon of Satan.
None of this is modern 'canon', but it seems to have been believed by Medievals as much as Odysseus' descent into Hades was believed by Ancients.
Also, would you say earth is a dead magic world, since we don't have any?
It doesn't have to be; earth simply needs to lack spellcasters.
There are many magical traditions on earth: Kabbal, hermetism, Alchemy, Gnostic traditions, Islamic Alchemy, Egyptian Ritualism, Taoism, Shamanism. the list just goes on and on...
That said having magic in the game I'm making won't be a problem.That's the point, a fantasy earth setting set in the Renaissance...
The "Mechanic" they use to get people across are Stargates and such and thier relation to myths (Egyptian, Norse, Chinese)
From WIKIPEDIA:[INDENT]
Stargate productions center on the premise of a "Stargate", a ring-shaped alien device that enables personal teletransportation to complementary devices located cosmic distances away.[3] Most Stargate episodes are set in the present day.[4] The Stargate's existence is a military secret,[5] so story lines present no contradiction between the episode's events and reality.[6] In the story, many Earth mythologies are in fact based upon events involving aliens who visited or controlled Earth civilizations in the distant past.[7] Although initially the only hostile alien race depicted, the Goa'uld (as they become known in SG-1) become foremost among a series of Earth foes in subsequent franchise incarnations. Posing as gods, the Goa'uld enslaved the inhabitants of ancient Egypt, creating its culture and religion,[8] using Stargates to move laborers from Earth to other habitable planets. The aliens were forced to flee Earth following a successful rebellion by the humans, and the Stargate was buried and forgotten until its rediscovery in 1928.[5][/INDENT]
This, or many other things (Stonehenge, Indian Burial Mounds, Crop Circles) could be used to navigate your campaign towrds the planes and really anywhere you want.
And for characters coming into earth, that could be something used too.
As for a Christian/Yahweh over-tones for this, I think go with whatever you think is right. It doesn't have to fit snug, and maybe you broadside them with something different. I think it was IMAJICAby Clive Barker, that had a rug, that seemed to have these beautiful patterns coming and out, that would almost hypnotize people into another world. Or wait was WEAVEWORLD? Either way, you get the picture?
My concern would be how this effects the worlds and such, with technologies like the Gun, High explosives computers, and hell, basic science. Though, this would be fun of you have a loose campaign and let things happen here and there, if you have a strict hardcore campaign, it could really dwindle and hurt it too.
Either way, whatever you decide, give us a heads up on how if goes, it sounds DAMN interesting.
:D
Like I've said before, this will be a fantasy earth setting so yes there will be magic, mythical creatures etc.
There are many magical traditions on earth: Kabbal, hermetism, Alchemy, Gnostic traditions, Islamic Alchemy, Egyptian Ritualism, Taoism, Shamanism. the list just goes on and on...
That said having magic in the game I'm making won't be a problem.That's the point, a fantasy earth setting set in the Renaissance...
Ach should have read all the through then huh? :embarrass
Still good you could look up a lot of the Steampunkand Clockpunkstuff going on out there for resources and inspiration for such a campaign.
I hate to throw in another type of, I guess you could say , setting, but some of this reminds of what happens on Stargate SG-1 and within that universe.
The "Mechanic" they use to get people across are Stargates and such and thier relation to myths (Egyptian, Norse, Chinese)
From WIKIPEDIA:[INDENT]
Stargate productions center on the premise of a "Stargate", a ring-shaped alien device that enables personal teletransportation to complementary devices located cosmic distances away.[3] Most Stargate episodes are set in the present day.[4] The Stargate's existence is a military secret,[5] so story lines present no contradiction between the episode's events and reality.[6] In the story, many Earth mythologies are in fact based upon events involving aliens who visited or controlled Earth civilizations in the distant past.[7] Although initially the only hostile alien race depicted, the Goa'uld (as they become known in SG-1) become foremost among a series of Earth foes in subsequent franchise incarnations. Posing as gods, the Goa'uld enslaved the inhabitants of ancient Egypt, creating its culture and religion,[8] using Stargates to move laborers from Earth to other habitable planets. The aliens were forced to flee Earth following a successful rebellion by the humans, and the Stargate was buried and forgotten until its rediscovery in 1928.[5][/INDENT]
This, or many other things (Stonehenge, Indian Burial Mounds, Crop Circles) could be used to navigate your campaign towrds the planes and really anywhere you want.
And for characters coming into earth, that could be something used too.
As for a Christian/Yahweh over-tones for this, I think go with whatever you think is right. It doesn't have to fit snug, and maybe you broadside them with something different. I think it was IMAJICAby Clive Barker, that had a rug, that seemed to have these beautiful patterns coming and out, that would almost hypnotize people into another world. Or wait was WEAVEWORLD? Either way, you get the picture?
My concern would be how this effects the worlds and such, with technologies like the Gun, High explosives computers, and hell, basic science. Though, this would be fun of you have a loose campaign and let things happen here and there, if you have a strict hardcore campaign, it could really dwindle and hurt it too.
Either way, whatever you decide, give us a heads up on how if goes, it sounds DAMN interesting.
:D
These are good Ideas but that's exactly what I said in my earlier (dare I say earliest) posts, Planar travel will be heavily restricted either as miraculous divine intervention or from specific locations on earth (and again only at specific times of the year) for example, Fairy rings in Ireland, Wales, etc as gates to Faerie, Caverns in the meditareanean leading to Hades. Planar bleeds in the deepest arctic that might at certain times of the year lead to Nifleheim, Doorways to the Astral plane in the Hymalayas etc.
Other then that, planar travel will be completely innacessible. (not to mention most of these gates will have powerful guardians and wards)
I've also thought about the technological issue. That's going to be fixed by restricting spellcasting from 2 perpespectives:
First, from a role-playing perpespective: magic is much rarer then in anormal campaign setting, few people actually know how to work arcane spells and magic. Most of these will either have been mythological figures or they by necessity keep their powers secret ( examples are saints, secret societies like the Knight Templars and the Gnostics, etc). Very few priest will be actual clerics a even less will actually achieve high levels in that class.
Additionnaly magical powers will be mostly the providence of mythical creatures (sidhe, dwarves, trolls, spirits, demons)
Keeping this, any character with actual powers will be exceptional.
Second from a mechanical perpective: To reflect the role-playing perspective, divine magic will have increased casting times, arcane spells will sometimes require spellcasting checks to be cast and have additional casting times. In reality most "priests" will be experts with skills in knowledge religion etc. similar lines will go to magicians who will be most of the time either charlatans or diluded crazy nuts who actually believe they can work magic (but they can't). Real arcane magic will either be from lore kept secret and passed from master to apprentice and kept in the hands of secret societies (not to mention the fact that the inquisition will be opposed to arcane magic as a whole and have a tendency to destroy arcane knowledge when they find it or seal it away...)
Keeping that in mind guns, black powder and technology will be all the more important since anybody can use it with proper training. In fact even those that can work magic will most of the time prefer to use a blade or gun because it's easier and much faster...
Thanks for your comments everybody...
I apologize if this has been covered (I'm a skim reader) but what about tying portals to ancient sites like Stone Henge or the Colosseum? The Colosseum would make a great portal to Cubes of Acheron.
I've covered that so far but yes this is what I'm shouting for see my earlier posts for examples. As a matter of fact, planar travel will be completely inaccessible except by miracles and specific locations (wich will only work at certain times of the year and under certain circomstances)
An example would be fairy rings that lead to faerie and caverns in the mediteranean leading to hades etc.
I'll write down the colloseum idea thought sounds cool...
I'll start looking them up when I have the time...