I'm considering which PC races should be available to a party of native Myoshiman (or generally Pateran) PCs.
Here's what I've got (most of this are my ideas):
- Rakasta:
* Domestic and Alley (in Myoshima, Selimpore and Rajahstan)
* Sherkasta and Cloud Pardasta (Surabayang, Malacayog)
* Mountain Rakasta (Myoshima, perhaps Kompor-Thap)
- Pachydermion: several breeds
- Wee Folk: some oriental faeries (probably akin to Pooka and/or Brownie)
Some shapeshifters could be added, as well as undead and perhaps some goblinoid races (though I'm not certain I'd want standard Mystaran goblinoids in Patera as well).
Rakasta-shaped Aranea could also be used.
Any ideas or comments?
GP
As mentioned earlier, I still get confused about the different Rakasta subraces (I need to just print out that Rakasta article from my Dragon CD archive), so I can't add much there... (but see below).
I have always liked the idea of an India inspired Pachydermion colony on Myoshima, so I'm glad those are in!
Fey (Oriental style) sounds cool, and well in line with your Ochalea gazetteer. I guess many of the same races could be present in Myoshima as in Ochalea. This could include the Ogre Magi?
There was also some talk of a civilization of Goblins on Myoshima. I cant remember what culture they would have. Since goblins also exist (some kind of goblins anyway) in oriental myths, perhaps these can be made into an oriental flavored goblin race?
Aranea work well. They could have had a number of ways to get to Myoshima and could have infiltrated any number of the humanoids races there.
We know that the Katamura clan has had trouble with Dragons in the past, so Dragons and Dragon-kin should be present. I am ofcourse especially thinking about Drakes. I was working on a separate race of Drakes that could take the shape of Rakasta and Lupins (Beast-drakes?), but it might be just as well to make them a variant of Mandrakes.
What else...more cat-creatures? Plenty of those in the SCMC, but not too many qualify as PC races. How about those Cat-Centaurs you mentioned in another thread. I cant remember their name right now.
Some more humorous suggestions could be taken from the comic book Usagi Yojimbo. I would love to introduce a certain long-eared Samurai, but I probably couldn't get away with it. Other antropomorphs? Some dignified Panda-Bugbears? :D
Back on a more serious note, I was toying with the idea of making a map of Myoshima based on the map of Rokugan.(http://l5r.trc.dk/baggrund/images/map_rokugan.jpg) and perhaps even stealing some clan names from there.
Use or ignore these ideas as you wish!
Havard
Wow, are you considering to run a campaign there?
Not right now, but I'm considering writing a mini-gazetteer
As mentioned earlier, I still get confused about the different Rakasta subraces (I need to just print out that Rakasta article from my Dragon CD archive), so I can't add much there... (but see below).
Sherkasta: tiger
Domestic, Alley: pedigree/moggy cats
Cloud Pardasta: cloud leopard
Mountain Rakasta: puma/cougar
I have always liked the idea of an India inspired Pachydermion colony on Myoshima, so I'm glad those are in!
Well, I'm going to include my own Pachydermion article (an old one, modeled on Bruce's Lupin and Rakasta articles).
Fey (Oriental style) sounds cool, and well in line with your Ochalea gazetteer. I guess many of the same races could be present in Myoshima as in Ochalea. This could include the Ogre Magi?
Ogre Magi are IMO goblinoids. They might be present, but I've got some reservations on this.
There was also some talk of a civilization of Goblins on Myoshima. I cant remember what culture they would have. Since goblins also exist (some kind of goblins anyway) in oriental myths, perhaps these can be made into an oriental flavored goblin race?
Bakemono? In this case, they might actually be Beastmen rather than goblinoids.
Aranea work well. They could have had a number of ways to get to Myoshima and could have infiltrated any number of the humanoids races there.
Yes, though probably this would be limited to Rakasta and possibly some goblinoid race, if available.
We know that the Katamura clan has had trouble with Dragons in the past, so Dragons and Dragon-kin should be present.
Gemstone dragons, of course. I didn't mention them because I was mostly focusing on PCs -- I'm taking into account your comment on the lack of PC section in the Ochalea GAZ.
I am ofcourse especially thinking about Drakes. I was working on a separate race of Drakes that could take the shape of Rakasta and Lupins (Beast-drakes?), but it might be just as well to make them a variant of Mandrakes.
Uhm, interesting. These could indeed fit in an Ochalean/Myoshiman faery court.
What else...more cat-creatures? Plenty of those in the SCMC, but not too many qualify as PC races. How about those Cat-Centaurs you mentioned in another thread. I cant remember their name right now.
Wemic. I think they fit more with the M-African Rakasta than with the M-Indian.
Some more humorous suggestions could be taken from the comic book Usagi Yojimbo. I would love to introduce a certain long-eared Samurai, but I probably couldn't get away with it. Other antropomorphs? Some dignified Panda-Bugbears? :D
Sure, Panda could be used as antropomorph. Rabbits might not be as good an idea, but still...
Back on a more serious note, I was toying with the idea of making a map of Myoshima based on the map of Rokugan.(http://l5r.trc.dk/baggrund/images/map_rokugan.jpg) and perhaps even stealing some clan names from there.
Uhm, could be used, though Myoshima is perhaps more tropical than what is shown here.
GP
Not right now, but I'm considering writing a mini-gazetteer
I'd love to see something like that!
Sherkasta: tiger
Domestic, Alley: pedigree/moggy cats
Cloud Pardasta: cloud leopard
Mountain Rakasta: puma/cougar
Thanks! I like all of these. I have an idea fotr the Sherkasta presented below.
Gemstone dragons, of course. I didn't mention them because I was mostly focusing on PCs -- I'm taking into account your comment on the lack of PC section in the Ochalea GAZ.
Uhm, interesting. These could indeed fit in an Ochalean/Myoshiman faery court.
Connecting these two, IIRC my Rakasta/Lupin shape-shifting drakes were Gemstone Drakes, ie their Draconic forms resembled Gemstone Dragons...
Wemic. I think they fit more with the M-African Rakasta than with the M-Indian.
Agreed. Let's leave them out this time.
Sure, Panda could be used as antropomorph. Rabbits might not be as good an idea, but still...
Okay here is my idea on the M-India part of Myoshima (Kompor-Thap http://pandius.com/kompor.html) :
The society is dominated by Pachydermions, but if we already have Myoshima established as a realm of antropomorphs, how about drawing some inspiration from Kipling's Jungle book.
The main animal characters in the book were:
Baghera: We already have Rakasta on the planet, maybe some Black-furred Pardasta have adopted the Pachydermon society?
Baloo: Since we already were talking about Pandas, how about adopting the race of Ursai from Ivid's Grim Winter Blackmoor campaign? Basically, they are a bear equivalent of Rakastas. We could have a Panda and a Black Bear variety on Myoshima?
Sherekhan: The Sherekasta are already present. I'd suggest a region of agressive Rakastas here.
Bandalog - The monkeys: I forget the name, but the SCMC has a race of baboon-like pirates. Could they be included here?
The Wolves: Any room for Lupins?
To make Kompor-Thap as different from Sind and Shajapur, we could focus on making this a jungle version of India with lost temples and beastlike humanoids...
Uhm, could be used, though Myoshima is perhaps more tropical than what is shown here.
Yes, IIRC most of Myoshima is covered by junge. I was thinking of turning that desert-like area into a jungle, or maybe extending the map to the south-west to make room for Kompor-Thap there and leavin what is present on the map a Rakasta realm.
Back to the M-Japanese part:
* You gotta have Tengu/Kenku! They are too cool to be left out, and they fit very well with the animal antropomorph image of Myoshima.
* Tortles: Tortles are subjugated by the Rakasta and make up a large part of their peasant population. Unknown to most is that some of these Tortles are part of the secretive Ninja clan that terrorizes the Rakasta Samurai.
* Will you be making any connections to the module Rage of Rakasta and which I expanded upon in my Thunder Rift project?
Specifically:
BC 1500: Hutaakan Era.
Hutaakan Clerics pull Ashai Monolith from the sky. The monolith is a holy artifact from the lands of Ashai on the moon of Patera. Centuries later, Rakasta from Ashai will come looking for the Monolith. The Hutaakans use the inherent invisibility magic found in the rock to create a protective spell around the valley, keeping it hidden from outsiders. Unfortunately, it is too late. One group of invaders have already located the valley... (Extrapolated from Rage of Rakasta).
And more importantly:
AC 995
On the invisible moon of Patera, the Shoguns of Ashai have long been advocates of a return to Myoshiman isolationism, and have often found themselves at odds with the expansionist tendencies of the ruling Kitamuran emperors. Recently the conflict broke into all-out war when the Kitamuran enlisted their dragon allies to put pressure on the Ashai Shogunate. Many Ashai were forced to flee their province. Drawn by the moon-rock of the Monolith, they discover Thunder Rift and settle down on the Wailing Plateau in the Gauntlin Forest. (Rage of Rakasta).
The whole timeline can be found here:
http://pandius.com/th_rift.html
Havard
Sure, Panda could be used as antropomorph. Rabbits might not be as good an idea, but still...
FWIW There is a humanoid panda race in the d20 version of World of Warcraft - never played it myself. I never played the game myself but a friend was...
Regards
Gary
FWIW There is a humanoid panda race in the d20 version of World of Warcraft - never played it myself. I never played the game myself but a friend was...
Well, what do you know!
Havard
Connecting these two, IIRC my Rakasta/Lupin shape-shifting drakes were Gemstone Drakes, ie their Draconic forms resembled Gemstone Dragons...
Nice choice.
Okay here is my idea on the M-India part of Myoshima (Kompor-Thap http://pandius.com/kompor.html) :
Kompor-Thap seems to be more like the prevalently Buddhist nations of south-east Asia than India -- which is OTOH present as Rajahstan in Patera.
The society is dominated by Pachydermions, but if we already have Myoshima established as a realm of antropomorphs, how about drawing some inspiration from Kipling's Jungle book.
Uhm, yes, the anthropomorph theme is certainly there... let me see.
The main animal characters in the book were:
Baghera: We already have Rakasta on the planet, maybe some Black-furred Pardasta have adopted the Pachydermon society?
Black Pardasta are definitely possible.
Baloo: Since we already were talking about Pandas, how about adopting the race of Ursai from Ivid's Grim Winter Blackmoor campaign? Basically, they are a bear equivalent of Rakastas. We could have a Panda and a Black Bear variety on Myoshima?
There were other talks of bear-like humanoids before -- Ursines by Capt. Scaevola IIRC. They are definitely possible.
Sherekhan: The Sherekasta are already present. I'd suggest a region of agressive Rakastas here.
Also, Rakshasa driven Sherkasta tribes can be present.
Bandalog - The monkeys: I forget the name, but the SCMC has a race of baboon-like pirates. Could they be included here?
The Neshezu -- but they're more like orangutan than baboons.
They'd probably fit better in Surabayang, though.
The Wolves: Any room for Lupins?
Uhm, Lupins are much less common than Rakasta -- probably also because they've a shorter history. For example, there are no Lupins outside Brun, while there are Rakasta almost everywhere.
To make Kompor-Thap as different from Sind and Shajapur, we could focus on making this a jungle version of India with lost temples and beastlike humanoids...
It's still Rajahstan rather than Kompor-Thap, but I do agree on this line.
Back to the M-Japanese part:
* You gotta have Tengu/Kenku! They are too cool to be left out, and they fit very well with the animal antropomorph image of Myoshima.
Ok. Would they be related to Gyerans?
* Tortles: Tortles are subjugated by the Rakasta and make up a large part of their peasant population. Unknown to most is that some of these Tortles are part of the secretive Ninja clan that terrorizes the Rakasta Samurai.
Ahem, we already have Ninja Tortles in the SC... do we need them in Myoshima as well?
* Will you be making any connections to the module Rage of Rakasta and which I expanded upon in my Thunder Rift project?
The whole timeline can be found here:
http://pandius.com/th_rift.html
I'll need to have a look at the timeline -- and especially at where Thunder Rift is in your work.
GP
Nice choice.
Kompor-Thap seems to be more like the prevalently Buddhist nations of south-east Asia than India -- which is OTOH present as Rajahstan in Patera.
You are right. I assumed they were the same, but upon closer reading I can see that they are not. Cthulhudrew offers some more ideas on the general outlook of Patrea in that article which could be used...
There were other talks of bear-like humanoids before -- Ursines by Capt. Scaevola IIRC. They are definitely possible.
Cool!
Probably better than the Bugbear alternative if you want to keep goblinoids out.
Also, Rakshasa driven Sherkasta tribes can be present.
Should work perfektly!
The Neshezu -- but they're more like orangutan than baboons.
They'd probably fit better in Surabayang, though.
Right. A subrace? Isn't the Bandalog king an orangutan in the Disney version of the Jungle Book?
Uhm, Lupins are much less common than Rakasta -- probably also because they've a shorter history. For example, there are no Lupins outside Brun, while there are Rakasta almost everywhere.
We could leave them out. The Black Panthers and Bears were the parts I particularly wanted to steal for the Pachydermion realm.
It's still Rajahstan rather than Kompor-Thap, but I do agree on this line.
Yep, yep. Rajahstan it is!
Kenku/Tengu:
Ok. Would they be related to Gyerans?
That is an interesting connection. Perhaps Gyerians are a race of fallen Kenkus?
Ahem, we already have Ninja Tortles in the SC... do we need them in Myoshima as well?
Maybe not ;)
I'll need to have a look at the timeline -- and especially at where Thunder Rift is in your work.
I've been working under the premise that TR is in the Known World, specifically in the Dwarfgate mountains.
The material is written much in a way so that TR could be anywhere though, even a pocket dimension (though I dislike this option myself).
Some arguments for the Myoshima/Rage of Rakasta connection:
* The Ashai Rakasta are from a far away land.
* They have a distinctly Japanese culture.
I also identified the Monolith as stolen from Myoshima. This is my own idea, but since the effects of the Monolith were never revealed I made the assumption that it was connected to the fact that TR was hard to find even from the air. The idea was that the light bending effects of Myoshiman rocks was magically enhanced in this Monolith, thus hiding the valley.
Havard
You are right. I assumed they were the same, but upon closer reading I can see that they are not. Cthulhudrew offers some more ideas on the general outlook of Patrea in that article which could be used...
Yes, I'm starting from his geography and history.
Right. A subrace? Isn't the Bandalog king an orangutan in the Disney version of the Jungle Book?
Uhm, don't know. Still, orangutans are not very appropriate to India.
We could leave them out. The Black Panthers and Bears were the parts I particularly wanted to steal for the Pachydermion realm.
OK.
Kenku/Tengu:
That is an interesting connection. Perhaps Gyerians are a race of fallen Kenkus?
Or vice versa, the Kenku/Tengu could be an empowered version of the Gyerans. BTW, I'm looking for these connections for several monsters -- I'd prefer to use mystaran creatures rather than OA monsters.
I've been working under the premise that TR is in the Known World, specifically in the Dwarfgate mountains.
The material is written much in a way so that TR could be anywhere though, even a pocket dimension (though I dislike this option myself).
OK.
Some arguments for the Myoshima/Rage of Rakasta connection:
* The Ashai Rakasta are from a far away land.
* They have a distinctly Japanese culture.
That's definitely in favor of Myoshiman Rakasta.
I also identified the Monolith as stolen from Myoshima. This is my own idea, but since the effects of the Monolith were never revealed I made the assumption that it was connected to the fact that TR was hard to find even from the air. The idea was that the light bending effects of Myoshiman rocks was magically enhanced in this Monolith, thus hiding the valley.
That's reasonable. I'll have a look to see where the Ashai can fit in the overall plan
Update: it seems I'll just need to put an Ashai clan that supports isolationism in Myoshima.
GP
Right. A subrace? Isn't the Bandalog king an orangutan in the Disney version of the Jungle Book?
So it would seem
Still, orangutans are not very appropriate to India.
Apparently not. Oh well
just noticed that the first article says that orangs are not native to India
Regards
Gary
Apparently not. Oh well
just noticed that the first article says that orangs are not native to India
Indeed. A different subspecies, related to some Indian-based RW monkey could be developed, though.
Or vice versa, the Kenku/Tengu could be an empowered version of the Gyerans. BTW, I'm looking for these connections for several monsters -- I'd prefer to use mystaran creatures rather than OA monsters.
From what I understand, the Tengu were viewed as Spirit people, and were masters of martial arts, believed to have been the ones who had taught the ninjas their fighting skills. I agree with your general philosophy, but my vote to bring in the Tengu is because they are so cool
Anyway, an empowered form of Gyerians would work. Perhaps one of the first Gyerian leaders on Patera undertook some Quest to elevate his followers?That's reasonable. I'll have a look to see where the Ashai can fit in the overall plan
Update: it seems I'll just need to put an Ashai clan that supports isolationism in Myoshima.
Nice!
Havard
Havard
From what I understand, the Tengu were viewed as Spirit people, and were masters of martial arts, believed to have been the ones who had taught the ninjas their fighting skills. I agree with your general philosophy, but my vote to bring in the Tengu is because they are so cool
Most monsters in Chinese and Japanese folklore are considered spirits -- in the Journey to the West, most "monsters" or "demons" are either spirits exiled from heaven, or animals who have practiced the Tao and reached extensive powers (including human form and magic).
The quest idea therefore fits very well the oriental tone.
GP
I noticed that the OA also has a race of Ratlings. Ratlings were also introduced in a TR module, and IIRC there was some fan based work suggesting a Ratling community in a vast network of caves below the Savage Coast.
If the Ratling idea for the SC is used, then the Ratlings are a very recent race, and therefore should not exist on Patera.
What is said in TR about Ratlings?
GP
If the Ratling idea for the SC is used, then the Ratlings are a very recent race, and therefore should not exist on Patera.
What is said in TR about Ratlings?
Ratlings are newcomers to Thunder Rift. They start out as minions of the Wererat named Kechute, but after he is slain they may have a chance to grow as an independent race. I suspect they multiply quite rapidly.
We don't really know anything else about them. If they are newcomers to Thunder Rift, where did they come from? Underground?
Or, if they are from Patera, perhaps they arrived along with the Rakasta. Possibly the Ratlings showed the Ahai the way, forming the unlikely alliance of Rat-men and Cat-men that obviously could never last. Both had the common interest of leaving Patera, however.
Just an idea.
Havard
We don't really know anything else about them. If they are newcomers to Thunder Rift, where did they come from? Underground?
If you go by the SC Ratlings idea, the Ratlings are a stabilized form of Wererats created by Mrikitat and transported to Dunwick from Thyatis using a magical portal. If so, then the TR Ratlings could be a group that was shangahied by a rogue high level Wererat who used a different portal to relocate to TR.
If you go by the SC Ratlings idea, the Ratlings are a stabilized form of Wererats created by Mrikitat and transported to Dunwick from Thyatis using a magical portal. If so, then the TR Ratlings could be a group that was shangahied by a rogue high level Wererat who used a different portal to relocate to TR.
Sounds reasonable. The Ratlings could even have travelled to TR by natural means.If going underground, TR might actually be easier to locate that way than by travelling on the surface.
Back to Myoshima:
It seems clear that the dominant races will be Rakasta and Pachydermions.
Of the other candidates who have been discussed so far, I'd say Aranea, Drakes, Ursai/Ursoid (Including Panda variants!) and Kenku seem to be the most attractive choices.
There is probably no need to throw in too many races either. Focusing on other options such as Mystics and Rakasta Ninjas (Rage of Rakasta has those) would make the setting interesting enough.
Another thought: Are there any Heldannic outposts on Patera at this point? Im sure they would manage to set one up once the Knights discover the moon.
Havard
It seems clear that the dominant races will be Rakasta and Pachydermions.
Definitely. Say 70% Rakasta, 20% Pachydermions and 10% other races.
Patera probably has a population of more than 6 millions (Myoshima IIRC has 2 million inhabitants, and is one of the three major blocks), so that there would be some 600.000 beings who are neither Rakasta nor Pachydermions. That's enough for two to three major races (compare with the numbers of Dwarves, Elves and Halflings in the KW).
Of the other candidates who have been discussed so far, I'd say Aranea, Drakes, Ursai/Ursoid (Including Panda variants!) and Kenku seem to be the most attractive choices.
Ok, though I wouldn't discard monkey-folk (Bandar-log and Neshezu).
As for Ursines, I would consider them in Malacayog (Sun bears), Kompor-Thap and Myoshiman (Kuma/Tibetan bear), and Rajahstan (Sloth bears), and, of course, Panda.
I would assume that they originally came with the Sherkasta from Skothar at the time of the GRoF -- this gives them a connection with Giulio's Nentsun Ursine. Also, this leads to the idea that the Ursines started in Kompor-Thap and then spread to Rajahstan, Myoshima and Malacayog.
Drakes, on the other hand, would be a fairy folk with no nation of their own -- though they would appear both in the local fairy courts and in the courts of gemstone dragons.
There is probably no need to throw in too many races either. Focusing on other options such as Mystics and Rakasta Ninjas (Rage of Rakasta has those) would make the setting interesting enough.
What does Rage of the Rakasta say? Are there any OD&D Ninja rules?
Another thought: Are there any Heldannic outposts on Patera at this point? Im sure they would manage to set one up once the Knights discover the moon.
I don't think so: the HK only have 15 flying ships -- 14 if one has been stolen by the Wolves of Heldann. On the other hand, Myoshima has entire armies of flying sabretooth-riding samurai. It would be hard for the HK to set outpost on Patera (and not get them wiped out by the Myoshimans), except perhaps some diplomatic missions in Rajahstan or Selimpore.
OTOH, I'd assume there's at least an embassy of Bellayne in Myoshima, and a trade post in Selimpore.
GP
Definitely. Say 70% Rakasta, 20% Pachydermions and 10% other races.
Patera probably has a population of more than 6 millions (Myoshima IIRC has 2 million inhabitants, and is one of the three major blocks), so that there would be some 600.000 beings who are neither Rakasta nor Pachydermions. That's enough for two to three major races (compare with the numbers of Dwarves, Elves and Halflings in the KW).
Okay these figures work for me
Ok, though I wouldn't discard monkey-folk (Bandar-log and Neshezu).
Okay, let's include those guys. Another Monkey reference that could be used as inspiration are the Indian (Hindu?) legends of Hanuman, the flying Monkey God. This presents a more positive image of the Monkey-folk than the Bandar-log.
I'm not sure if biologists would forgive us for making ape-folk and monkey-folk sub-species of the same race though...? ;)
As for Ursines, I would consider them in Malacayog (Sun bears), Kompor-Thap and Myoshiman (Kuma/Tibetan bear), and Rajahstan (Sloth bears), and, of course, Panda.
I would assume that they originally came with the Sherkasta from Skothar at the time of the GRoF -- this gives them a connection with Giulio's Nentsun Ursine. Also, this leads to the idea that the Ursines started in Kompor-Thap and then spread to Rajahstan, Myoshima and Malacayog.
Nice subraces! I had to google a few of them to see what they looked like, but I think this is a good starting point. Do you have any good links for Guilio's work on the Ursine?
Do we need more nations?
If so, I could suggest an M-Siberian culture of Ursines.... :D
Drakes, on the other hand, would be a fairy folk with no nation of their own -- though they would appear both in the local fairy courts and in the courts of gemstone dragons.
Yeah. And also to a great extent have infiltrated the Rakasta and other societies I imagine.
What does Rage of the Rakasta say? Are there any OD&D Ninja rules?
No OD&D Ninja rules for PCs, but there is a monster stat writeup of Rakasta Ninjas. They have the abilities and saving throws of Thieves of the same level/HD and are masters of poison. There is also a Rakasta Wizard in the module, but no rules for how to play one.
RoR has rules for Rakasta PCs (but just advancement to 5th level).
The Ashai Rakasta were driven from their home (Myoshima?) by a fierce dragon. The first Daymio of these Rakasta was named Hirameki
The monster section also features Bamboo Golems and the Ebon Tiger. These creatures also, most likely hail from Myoshima/Patera.
I don't think so: the HK only have 15 flying ships -- 14 if one has been stolen by the Wolves of Heldann. On the other hand, Myoshima has entire armies of flying sabretooth-riding samurai. It would be hard for the HK to set outpost on Patera (and not get them wiped out by the Myoshimans), except perhaps some diplomatic missions in Rajahstan or Selimpore.
OTOH, I'd assume there's at least an embassy of Bellayne in Myoshima, and a trade post in Selimpore.
Okay. I like the fact that the Bellayne have a presence there.
Havard
Okay, let's include those guys. Another Monkey reference that could be used as inspiration are the Indian (Hindu?) legends of Hanuman, the flying Monkey God. This presents a more positive image of the Monkey-folk than the Bandar-log.
Indeed. Hanuman was king of the Vanara, a type of monkey-folk in indian lore.
He also happens to have been (probably) a model for Sun Wukong/Son Goku, the monkey king hero of Journey to the West.
I'm not sure if biologists would forgive us for making ape-folk and monkey-folk sub-species of the same race though...? ;)
We aren't going to tell them, are we? Anyway, if lynx-folk, cat-folk, and tiger-folk are all breeds of the same species (not to mention hyena-folk and dog-folk), then monkeys and apes can fit together as well.
Nice subraces! I had to google a few of them to see what they looked like, but I think this is a good starting point.
Thanks. I've basically used most Asiatic bear species...
Do you have any good links for Guilio's work on the Ursine?
Yes, http://www.pandius.com/nentsun.html
Do we need more nations?
Sure, those mentioned in Dragon Magazine are only the largest ones, there are probably a number of minor nations and tribes.
If so, I could suggest an M-Siberian culture of Ursines.... :D
It would fit bettern in Skothar. Patera doesn't have an arctic area: it's all jungle, with temperate polar caps.
Yeah. And also to a great extent have infiltrated the Rakasta and other societies I imagine.
I'd go for more south-east asian nations, if I had to add some.
No OD&D Ninja rules for PCs, but there is a monster stat writeup of Rakasta Ninjas. They have the abilities and saving throws of Thieves of the same level/HD and are masters of poison.
There are Rakasta Ninja in VotPA as well, but they're not statted. I suppose Ninja would be a subclass, specialization or secret craft for Thieves in OD&D.
I've had some preliminary thoughts on this issue. I'm considering either a Secret Craft accessible by Thieves, with powers related to movement and poisons, or a subclass similar to Paladins, with access to a reduced set of wizard spells (with some poison-related clerical magic).
What do you think?
There is also a Rakasta Wizard in the module, but no rules for how to play one.
RoR has rules for Rakasta PCs (but just advancement to 5th level).
VotPA has full rules for Rakasta PCs. Basically they start as normal monsters, overcome some negative XPs, then go on as humans with a 20 or 25% XP penalty.
The Ashai Rakasta were driven from their home (Myoshima?) by a fierce dragon. The first Daymio of these Rakasta was named Hirameki
That's were Andrew got Emperor Hirameki's name, then. Well, I suppose they could have been exiled to some island domain by the emperor, and there attacked and forced to flee to Mystara by a dragon.
The monster section also features Bamboo Golems and the Ebon Tiger. These creatures also, most likely hail from Myoshima/Patera.
Indeed. I'm going to use Ebon Tigers as the symbol of one Myoshiman Ninja clan. Bamboo Golems would be very common (more than other golems, at least, except perhaps some type of living statue).
GP
Indeed. Hanuman was king of the Vanara, a type of monkey-folk in indian lore.
He also happens to have been (probably) a model for Sun Wukong/Son Goku, the monkey king hero of Journey to the West.
Okay, I'm starting to like these Monkey-folk even more now!
We aren't going to tell them, are we? Anyway, if lynx-folk, cat-folk, and tiger-folk are all breeds of the same species (not to mention hyena-folk and dog-folk), then monkeys and apes can fit together as well.
Yeah, I guess you are right
Thanks. I've basically used most Asiatic bear species...
Very appropriate.
Ninjas:
There are Rakasta Ninja in VotPA as well, but they're not statted. I suppose Ninja would be a subclass, specialization or secret craft for Thieves in OD&D.
I've had some preliminary thoughts on this issue. I'm considering either a Secret Craft accessible by Thieves, with powers related to movement and poisons, or a subclass similar to Paladins, with access to a reduced set of wizard spells (with some poison-related clerical magic).
What do you think?
I think both have merit. I actually made a Ninja class for OD&D back when I was 13 or something, but I don't think it was all that great. As I remember they had Thief abilities, Acrobatics similar to Mystics, and a limited spell selection, including a spell called Magic Star, which was basically a magic missile spell hauling Shuriken. ;)
I don't want to discard the Secret Craft option, but I think a High level Thief Option (similar to Paladin) would be easy to set up. For instance, Thieves of 9th level or higher can become Ninjas. Ninjas get the abilities of 1st level Mystics progressing at one increased Mystic level for every 3rd Thief level. Since Thieves and Mystics share some abilities, those could be replaced by poison use type abilities.
OTOH, I could see some potential for Secret Crafts (Secret Arts?)....
VotPA has full rules for Rakasta PCs. Basically they start as normal monsters, overcome some negative XPs, then go on as humans with a 20 or 25% XP penalty.
Ah, okay. I seemed to remember something like that.
That's were Andrew got Emperor Hirameki's name, then. Well, I suppose they could have been exiled to some island domain by the emperor, and there attacked and forced to flee to Mystara by a dragon.
IIRC Andrew suggested that the Emperor could have sent the dragon after them. Or that alternately the "Dragon" could in fact be a name for the new weapons (Canons?) used by the Emperor's forces. I never expanded much on this in my TR project though. RoR does seem to suggest that there was an actual dragon involved at some point.
RoR also has stats for weapons and mundane and magical items BTW...
Indeed. I'm going to use Ebon Tigers as the symbol of one Myoshiman Ninja clan. Bamboo Golems would be very common (more than other golems, at least, except perhaps some type of living statue).
Cool. I like the Ebon Tiger/Ninja connection
Havard
Ninjas:
I think both have merit. I actually made a Ninja class for OD&D back when I was 13 or something, but I don't think it was all that great. As I remember they had Thief abilities, Acrobatics similar to Mystics, and a limited spell selection, including a spell called Magic Star, which was basically a magic missile spell hauling Shuriken. ;)
I don't want to discard the Secret Craft option, but I think a High level Thief Option (similar to Paladin) would be easy to set up. For instance, Thieves of 9th level or higher can become Ninjas. Ninjas get the abilities of 1st level Mystics progressing at one increased Mystic level for every 3rd Thief level. Since Thieves and Mystics share some abilities, those could be replaced by poison use type abilities.
OTOH, I could see some potential for Secret Crafts (Secret Arts?)....
As a Paladin/Avenger-like class option, I'd ask the Disguise, Acrobatics, Danger Sense and Escape skills as prerequisites.
Just like the Paladin option, it would give spellcasting as 1/3 level class, though using mostly wizard spells from the illusion, enchantment, conjuration and alteration schools (in AD&D terms):
Level 1 spells: Charm Person, Darkness, Floating Disc, Ventriloquism, Sleep
Level 2 spells: Entangle, Invisibility, Phantasmal Force, Mirror Image, Continual Darkness
Level 3 spells: Hold Person, Invisibility 10' radius, Water Breathing, Infravision
Level 4 spells: Confusion, Hallucinatory Terrain, Polymorph Self, Protection from Poison (D3)
Level 5 spells: Cloudkill, Passwall, Hold Monster, Neutralize Poison (C4)
Level 6 spells: Projected Image, Magic Jar (W5), Teleport (W5)
As a Secret Art for Thieves, it would have similar prerequisites, and the power choice could go as follows:
1st circle: water walking, create debilitating poison
2nd circle: pass without traces, create poison antidote
3rd circle: cloud walking, create deadly poison
4th circle: passwall, true invisibility (as Mystic)
Grandmaster: gentle touch (as Mystic)
IIRC Andrew suggested that the Emperor could have sent the dragon after them. Or that alternately the "Dragon" could in fact be a name for the new weapons (Canons?) used by the Emperor's forces. I never expanded much on this in my TR project though. RoR does seem to suggest that there was an actual dragon involved at some point.
Perhaps they were sent on purpose to settle an island where a dragon lived, to get rid of them (because they were political opponents).
GP
On the topic of the dragon that drove off the Ashai- there is a red dragon that guards the Well of the Moon in module X5; this well creates a path to the "lunar kingdom" (which may well be Patera). Perhaps this is the same dragon, or else dragons are guardians of these sorts of interplanetary gates and a similar dragon is the one that drove off the Ashai? (The red's counterpart on the moon?)
As for vanara, it's funny you've brought them up, as I've been working on ways to incorporate a vanara kingdom in the mountains of Sind, with a history tied to Ilsundal and the Sindhi (and possibly Atruaghin as well!)
On the topic of the dragon that drove off the Ashai- there is a red dragon that guards the Well of the Moon in module X5; this well creates a path to the "lunar kingdom" (which may well be Patera). Perhaps this is the same dragon, or else dragons are guardians of these sorts of interplanetary gates and a similar dragon is the one that drove off the Ashai? (The red's counterpart on the moon?)
Good idea. Possibly with Gemstone on Patera, and common dragons on Mystara.
As for vanara, it's funny you've brought them up, as I've been working on ways to incorporate a vanara kingdom in the mountains of Sind, with a history tied to Ilsundal and the Sindhi (and possibly Atruaghin as well!)
The Vanara first popped up in D&D (that I'm aware of) in the micro-setting Mahasarpa for Oriental Adventures 3e:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20011019a
The Vanara first popped up in D&D (that I'm aware of) in the micro-setting Mahasarpa for Oriental Adventures 3e:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20011019a
James Wyatt actually created them for the 3E Oriental Adventures hardback, then later included them in Mahasarpa (and more appropriately so). That Mahasarpa web enhancement is pretty awesome- it provides some really cool ideas for fleshing out Sind.
I started to stat the vanara up for OD&D at one point, but frankly they turned out rather bland without some of the 3E mechanics. I put making an OD&D PC class on the back burner as a result. (Oddly, the 3.5 conversion of the Vanara in Dragon drops the ability adjustments. I've never been quite sure of the rationale, but seemingly the notion of giving Wisdom and Intelligence bonuses was considered overpowerful or something- at least from what I've been told by people not in charge. This, despite the Wisdom and Intelligence bonuses not being deemed equal to Strength and Constitution bonuses in the DMG.)
I started to stat the vanara up for OD&D at one point, but frankly they turned out rather bland without some of the 3E mechanics.
Uhm, the Vanara don't seem to have many quirks -- actually, for what I can see from the monster entry in Mahasarpa, they just have Infravision and skill bonuses. They won't do in OD&D as a monster race, unless one adds some high level powers.
It may work as a quasi-human race -- allowing them to get human classes with a minimal XP penalty and the additional powers as given in 3e (Infravision, Climbing as 1st level Thief, and must take the Acrobatics and Stealth general skills).
Uhm, the Vanara don't seem to have many quirks -- actually, for what I can see from the monster entry in Mahasarpa, they just have Infravision and skill bonuses. They won't do in OD&D as a monster race, unless one adds some high level powers.
It may work as a quasi-human race -- allowing them to get human classes with a minimal XP penalty and the additional powers as given in 3e (Infravision, Climbing as 1st level Thief, and must take the Acrobatics and Stealth general skills).
I like this option!
BTW, the web enhancement posted above looks really interesting. Cthulhudrew, I would love to hear what you make from it, maybe in another thread?
Havard
What about Tanuki?
I'm currently oriented to making Tanuki the most common local type of Pooka.
Though certainly a different version could be though up, if people don't like the idea of making them fairies.
We have the Domestic (civilized, more peaceful), Alley Rakasta (standard breeds), Sherkasta and Cloud Pardasta (Rajahstan?, Surabayang), Black Pardasta (Rajahstan) and Mountain Rakasta (barbarians) breeds.
These Domestic types may appear, especially in Selimpore and Kompor-Thap:
- Siamese (Vichien Mat): short hair, cream coat with markings -- two classes, commoner and noble
- Sacred Birman: long hair, cream coat with darker spots; priests of Shima/Ganetra and Kata Ng
- Burmese (Thong Daeng): solid black/blue coat, short hair
- Korat (Si-Sawat): solid silver-grey coat, short hair; lucky rogues
- Selimpore (Singapura): golden ivory coat, short hair; merchants descended from the Nueteki Myoshiman house
Races
Here is a breakdown of the other major races of Patera.
Merkasta
AC: 5
Hit Dice: 2+2
Move: 120' (40')
Attacks: 2 claws/1 bite
Damage: 1-4 each
No. Appearing: 0 (1-8)
Save As: Fighter 2
Morale: 9
Intelligence: 12
Alignment: Neutral
XP Value: 25
Though rarely seen (at least by those who live to tell the tale) these aquatic rakasta are known as the Saviours of Selimpore, protecting the independence of the island state by harassing the shipping of those who would threaten it's waters. Though known to be extravagantly coloured in golds, greens, blues and purples, little else is known about this elusive people despite the best efforts of Myoshiman spies. Adept at sinking ships from below, they are known to use hardened coral tools when necessary and that favoured warriors wield special Coral Claws.
Occasional rumours speak of ogre sized warriors who accompany large (30+) parties of Merkasta, though some believe these to be another allied species of Mer-Lion types.
If you want any more idea's for the setting, the national symbol of Singapore on which I presume Selimpore is loosely based is the Merlion, upper half lion, lower half fish. So...
Sure, I haven't considered aquatic races yet, but Merkasta will certainly be useful. And, of course, any other idea or comment is welcome.
GP
If you want any more idea's for the setting, the national symbol of Singapore on which I presume Selimpore is loosely based is the Merlion, upper half lion, lower half fish. So...
Merkasta
Great idea! I guess those guys might be the same or close related to that guys at the SC,that appear at Claw
Good overviews of races and nations. I am really looking forward to seeing the further stages of this project!
Hyerius:
I like the Merkasta! I have to admit, I also thought of the Claw images displayed by Wilhelm
Havard
Agathokles:
Good overviews of races and nations. I am really looking forward to seeing the further stages of this project!
Thanks. Now, I need to take care of the representation of the various races in OD&D and AD&D.
As a first step, let's have a look at the major groups: pachydermions (I've already done this part years ago), monkey folk, tengu, and ursines.
Monkey folk are quite easy, if we go by the Vanara and Neshezu description.
They have the following abilities:
Neshezu: +1 Dex, -1 Int; mov 6, climb 12, brachiate 15; forest cover; progress as Hobgoblin (OD&D); may be Shamans (level limit 8) or Wicca (4).
Vanara: -1 Str, +1 Wis; mov 12, climb 9; infravision 60'; progress as Orcs; may be Shamans (level limit 16) and Wicca (6).
Sasquatch: +2 Str, -2 Int; mov 15; natural attacks, natural AC 6; progresses as follows:
Cub 2d8 -60.000
Whelp 3d8 -30.000
Young 4d8 -15.000
NM 5d8 0
1 6d8 60.000
2 7d8 120.000
3 --- 240.000
4 8d8 480.000
5 9d8 780.000
6 10d8 1.080.000
7 --- 1.380.000
8 11d8 1.680.000
9 +2 HP 1.980.000
+300.000
Sasquatch can be Druid/Shamans (4) or Wicca (2).
Alternately, Vanara (and I'd say only Vanara) could use human classes, with a 10% XP penalty.
In AD&D, they have the same powers and abilities, and have the following level limits:
Neshezu: F 12, P 8, W 6, T 12.
Vanara: F 8, P 16, W 10, T 12.
Sasquatch: F 12, D 6, W 4.
Wizards must take the Wokan kit.
GP
P.S.: for the AD&D version of the Sasquatch, the Alaghi from PO:S&P can also be used.
I like the fact that this gazetteer will have lots of PC options
Havard
Looks good!
I like the fact that this gazetteer will have lots of PC options
Thanks, here is a (minimal) idea for the Tengu:
Tengu (OD&D) exist in two forms: crow Tengu and humanoid Tengu.
They are kind of midway between the Gyerians and Faenare of Mystara.
Humanoid Tengu progress like Faenare, except that they learn shamanic magic rather than druidic magic, and receive the polymorph self and shout spells (once per day per 2 HD, up to 3 times per day) instead of powers VIII and IV.
Crow Tengu don't have shamanic magic and can use the two abovementioned powers as if they had 2 less HD (and up to twice per day), but only require 1/2 experience.
In AD&D, use the Aarakocra as a base, and add Alter Self and Shout 3/day starting at levels 1 and 2 respectively. Humanoid Tengu can be Priests up to 12 level, Crow Tengu cannot use spellcasting classes at all.
GP
Thanks, here is a (minimal) idea for the Tengu:
Tengu (OD&D) exist in two forms: crow Tengu and humanoid Tengu.
They are kind of midway between the Gyerians and Faenare of Mystara.
Humanoid Tengu progress like Faenare, except that they learn shamanic magic rather than druidic magic, and receive the polymorph self and shout spells (once per day per 2 HD, up to 3 times per day) instead of powers VIII and IV.
Crow Tengu don't have shamanic magic and can use the two abovementioned powers as if they had 2 less HD (and up to twice per day), but only require 1/2 experience.
In AD&D, use the Aarakocra as a base, and add Alter Self and Shout 3/day starting at levels 1 and 2 respectively. Humanoid Tengu can be Priests up to 12 level, Crow Tengu cannot use spellcasting classes at all.
Giampaolo: This looks good! I love the Tengu as a race, but I didn't quite understand what you meant by having crow Tengu as a separate subrace? Maybe this is tied to some part of the mythology that I am not familiar with. Do they look the same as regular Tengu? Using the Faenare as a basis makes sense. They are basically Faenare with even more birdlike features and a stronger emphasis on martial arts and less on singing, right? Speaking of which, I dont see anything here about Martial Arts or Archery? Any way you could integrate those features?
Havard
I love the Tengu as a race, but I didn't quite understand what you meant by having crow Tengu as a separate subrace?
Tengu are sometimes represented as crow-headed humanoids, but are also represented as long nosed human-bird crossbreeds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengu
In Oriental Adventures, there are two subspecies of Tengu, crow-headed and humanoid-headed, so I've though to keep them both.
Humanoid Tengu look like Faenare, more or less, while crow Tengu look midway between Faenare and Gyerians.
Using the Faenare as a basis makes sense. They are basically Faenare with even more birdlike features and a stronger emphasis on martial arts and less on singing, right?
Yes. They cannot become windsingers, obviously, and use shamanic magic rather than druidic magic.
Speaking of which, I dont see anything here about Martial Arts or Archery? Any way you could integrate those features?
Like all PCs, Tengu can access Weapon Masteries, both armed and unarmed.
I don't think there's a need for additional rules here, though some bonuses can be added (similar to the halfling affinity for slings and thrown weapons).
GP