Much as I suspected, it looks like they just used the original Timothy Truman artwork for Warduke and Elkhorn as placeholders, and they weren't original pieces. Too bad- I'd have loved to have seen them included in the Gaz, and seeing a Clyde Caldwell Warduke would have been cool, too.
At any rate, I now have definitive proof that I am not crazy, and that cover was presented as a solicit at one point in time.
With the help of the good folk over at ENWorld, I was finally able to locate a picture of the mockup Gaz4 cover that TSR put out as an advertisement, featuring none other than our "good" pal Warduke:
Much as I suspected, it looks like they just used the original Timothy Truman artwork for Warduke and Elkhorn as placeholders, and they weren't original pieces. Too bad- I'd have loved to have seen them included in the Gaz, and seeing a Clyde Caldwell Warduke would have been cool, too.
At any rate, I now have definitive proof that I am not crazy, and that cover was presented as a solicit at one point in time.
Wow, very interesting Andrew!
The link to imageshack didn't work for some reason. I was hoping it might have bigger versions of the images. I would have loved to see full size versions of all of those covers.
Another one I've been looking for is the Mock up for Minrothad.
Anyway, what was the idea behind linkin Warduke to Ierendi? Was Ierendi envisioned very differently at first?
Havard
The link to imageshack didn't work for some reason. I was hoping it might have bigger versions of the images. I would have loved to see full size versions of all of those covers.
Unfortunately, thats the size they were provided to me in- someone was able to find them in his Dragon Magazine CD archive and provided a scan.
Another one I've been looking for is the Mock up for Minrothad.
Yeah- I'd mentioned that one too, but the Ierendi one was the main one I was interested in. I imagine an ad for the Minrothad one is in the Dragon archive as well, though I don't recall offhand whether I saw it in my Dragons when I was looking for the Ierendi one (I'm pretty sure I did, but I can't say for certain. The Ierendi one is in one of the Dragons I was missing from the period.)
Ierendi was in issue #121, page 97 according to the poster. Minrothad must have come out c.1988. (Note, I just found a grainy black and white scan at the Acaeum
Anyway, what was the idea behind linkin Warduke to Ierendi? Was Ierendi envisioned very differently at first?
Good question. I wonder if there was a story behind that. Figgen and the Heartstone Characters are mentioned in a section of the Ierendi City guide, but it's more of a throwaway than anything else. At a guess, I'd say that there probably wasn't any connection, but the TSR guys needed to throw together a mockup for advertising purposes, and- without knowing what was going to be in the Gaz, just used some random promotional art. It's happened several times with WotC products that have come out I've noticed- the mockup cover turns out to be very different from the final piece.
Might be a good question for the "Ask Bruce Heard" thread, though.
Unfortunately, thats the size they were provided to me in- someone was able to find them in his Dragon Magazine CD archive and provided a scan.
I've got the DRAGON Archives collection, so I'll see if I can't find the ad and blow it up without screwing with the pic too much.
Roger
EDIT: Found the ad, but it's a full-page image, not text/graphics mixed, so I couldn't blow it up without distorting the picture. *sigh*
I always wanted to see a color version of the Minrothad one, though, which I thought to be very beautiful.
I've got the DRAGON Archives collection, so I'll see if I can't find the ad and blow it up without screwing with the pic too much.
Roger
EDIT: Found the ad, but it's a full-page image, not text/graphics mixed, so I couldn't blow it up without distorting the picture. *sigh*
Got an issue/page ref? I'd like to see the ad myself, but not enough to browse through every single magazine PDF looking for it... ;)
Got an issue/page ref? I'd like to see the ad myself, but not enough to browse through every single magazine PDF looking for it... ;)
A couple posts up- issue #121, p. 97 (at least that's the reference the guy on ENWorld gave to me).
issue #121, p. 97
That's where I found it... (If you have the DRAGON Mag Archive, it's on disk 2.)
Roger
Havard asked this very interesting question:
Anyway, what was the idea behind linkin Warduke to Ierendi? Was Ierendi envisioned very differently at first?
As Cthulhudrew pointed out, the GAZ4 mentions Figgen and the Heartstone characters (they are very famous characters and they are nearly retired from adventuring), but they are mentioned also in a couple of other places:
- The "Red arrow Black shield" module shows Strongheart and Mercion as very old rulers of the kingdom of Ierendi. The PCs have also the opportunity to meet the other Heartstone characters, most of whom are now aged and mostly of no help for the quest against the Master of Hule.
- The "Shady Dragon Inn" Accessory lists again all the Heartsone characters (the good and the evil ones), updating their background after the events of the "Quest for the Heartsone" module. Most of the characters were exposed to the Heartstone effects, that enhanced their alignment traits (the good guys became even better guys, the chaotic ones became truly evil. Obviously the original party splitted in two). Figgen seems not to be exposed to the Heartstone.
The Shady Dragon Inn location is not explicitly cited in the module, but it may be easily connected with the Adventurer's Club in Ierendi City (the general organization of both places is very similar).
The four modules may be roughly ordered - from the oldest to the most recent events - as follows:
- "Quest for the Heartstone" module
- "Shady Dragon Inn" accessory
- GAZ 4 "The kingdom of Ierendi"
- "Red arrow black shield" module
In my opinion - thinking about the "original" cover of the module, too - the original "flavour" of the kingdom of Ierendi was centered around the Heartstone characters, but then it was changed to the "tropical" one.
In my opinion - thinking about the "original" cover of the module, too - the original "flavour" of the kingdom of Ierendi was centered around the Heartstone characters, but then it was changed to the "tropical" one.
Seems like it. I can't remember if OldDawg adressed this issue in his Ghyr gazetteer, but it would be interesting to come up with a story of how the characters from Ghyr ended up in Ierendi 150 years later.
I like the idea of the Heartstone prologing their lives. Time travel or other magical effects could also be involved. What happens to Ghyr that makes them want to leave those realms? Are the Evil characters also mentioned in X10? If so, do they ally themselves with the Master? Is the Master in fact responsible for bringing the Hearstone characters back? Is he somehow linked to the Heartstone himself?
Havard
The Shady Dragon Inn location is not explicitly cited in the module, but it may be easily connected with the Adventurer's Club in Ierendi City (the general organization of both places is very similar).
I thought I remembered it being mentioned as being in Corunglain in AC1, but it's probable that it isn't (AC1, I think, preceded X1 by a bit). The video game Tower of Doom, however, has a Shady Dragon Inn in Corunglain, where the adventuring party meets.
Seems like it. I can't remember if OldDawg adressed this issue in his Ghyr gazetteer, but it would be interesting to come up with a story of how the characters from Ghyr ended up in Ierendi 150 years later.
It needn't be so long- X10 (and X5 and 6) were "re-retconned" into taking place in 1005-1006 AC, per WotI and CoM after all (after having been inexplicably retconned into 1200 AC by Gaz7; the original module is clearly supposed to take place in the present-day Known World, as evidenced by the NPCs in it).
For my part, in my version of Ghyr the events of XL-1: Quest for the Heartstone take place in/around 1000 AC, with Strongheart and company going to Ierendi subsequently and participating in the Tournament of Adventurers there, explaining their rulership during 1005-1006 (X10).
I like the idea of the Heartstone prologing their lives. Time travel or other magical effects could also be involved. What happens to Ghyr that makes them want to leave those realms? Are the Evil characters also mentioned in X10? If so, do they ally themselves with the Master? Is the Master in fact responsible for bringing the Hearstone characters back? Is he somehow linked to the Heartstone himself?
The only ones mentioned in X10, IIRC, are Strongheart, Mercion, and possibly Figgen- though I may be confusing that with Gaz4. None of the evil characters are mentioned or take part in things- indeed, even Strongheart and the other good guys are pretty ineffectual and seemingly disinterested in the war effort (Bad paladin! Bad!) Of course, since X10 was written prior to Gaz4, I pretty much explain his behavior away as being due to the lack of any "real" influence the King and Queen of Ierendi have over Ierendi politics (although, come to think of it, I believe X10 mentions this a little, though not to the extent Gaz4 does). I have that as one of the reasons Strongheart has retired from the Ierendi throne by the time Reston comes around in 1007- frustration over the political situation sends Strongheart packing back home, and leaves things open for Reston to come in and sweep the crown for years at a time.
Brings back some memories ;)