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D20 Ravenloft quality?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
havard
May 01, 2007 12:16:40 Hi,
I haven't played RL since back in the early 90s using the 2e material. I was only a player back then so I never got to read much of those books. Now, this weekend I got my hands on the the "Ravenloft Campaign Setting" and "Masque of Red Death", both for d20 on sale. I have only flipped through the books yet, but I later heard someone say the D20 version wasnt as good (or at least different) than the 2e books. Can someone help shed some light on this?

Havard
#2
humanbing
May 01, 2007 13:01:24 The layout is somewhat different. For 3rd ed they ditched the wonderful "boxed sets" package and went only with books. The Campaign Setting is workaday and not too great, but it does have the benefit of not being a spoiler for Players to read.

Some books are really good:

Ravenloft Dungeon Master's Guide is a combination of update to 3.5 and a "Creative Campaigns" from 2nd ed (a handbook to running a campaign and other tips).

The Gazetteers are really good. They're indepth and they have good details of almost all the characters in the original 2nd ed. NPCs.

Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead is good. Instead of being a load of creatures, it's almost like bringing in a load of skills, feats, and other applicable stuff to liven (?) up the undead in your campaign.

Some books are bad:

The Ravenloft Player's Handbook is a somewhat shaky attempt to update 3.5 with a load of rules that actually are DM's-eyes-only.

I've heard Heroes of Light is a problematic issue. It apparently has some conflicts with canon, e.g. Sheriff von Zarovich.

Some books are average:

The two Denizens books are the 3.0 and 3.5 updates respectively. Both have errata, but between them they cover most of the 2nd ed. Ravenloft MC1 characters. MC2 isn't, to my knowledge, included - the unique NPCs that appear in it are now dispersed to the other books. And MC3 creatures (at least in part) never make an appearance.

That's kind of it.
#3
zombiegleemax
May 01, 2007 14:32:35 Actually, it's Champions of Darkness that fiddles more with canon (and has the infamous Sheriff). Heroes of Light is just mediocre.

The problem with the new rules for the Ravenloft Player's Handbook isn't so much that they're DM's-eyes-only as that they're Murphy's rules, creating unwanted side effects (for instance, the new druid rules makes it almost impossible for the society of non-evil druids in Forlorn to *exist*...).
#4
gonzoron
May 01, 2007 16:16:51 If I could sum up the d20 RL line in one sentence, I'd say: Amazing "Fluff," wildly varying "crunch". Aside from the infamous Champions of Darkness and Heroes of Light, (and even those have a few worthy moments) every book seems to have the mood captured perfectly, and give a DM lots to work with. But you do have to be careful, since a few of the authors had an incomplete understanding of the d20 rules, so the rule-based stuff goes from perfectly usable, to slightly shaky, to a miserable mess, depending on which book it is.

Of the two books you listed, the RCS is pretty good in the rules department, but many people think the MotRD book is pretty bad, rules-wise.
#5
Ith
May 01, 2007 17:58:15 I think the d20 Ravenloft is a very good product altogether. They didn't lose the style and feel of the world, and when you're looking to play Ravenloft, that's got to be your main concern. I highly recommend it.
#6
thanael
May 02, 2007 4:00:35 And you can get good things even out of the "problematic" books IMHO.
#7
speed6620
May 02, 2007 12:08:52 I have all but maybe six of the 3.0 and 3.5 and have two of those six on order right now. The Denizens of Dread is useful gives you new monsters that are mysterious and have a few weaknesses that are plot entwined and takes investigating to discover. It contains brutes as well though with liches, lycanthropes, etc. Also lots of templates and vampire strains. The van richten guides are nice, Shadow Fey and Walking Dead, the Van Richten's Arsenal also gets good reviews. the PHB 3.5 is handy, more user friendly, but doesn't have much new material, just updates which are useful.
The gazetteers are packed with dones of detail and with who's doomed, prestige classes, feats, etc. They are very good books.
Champions of Darkness is good for DM info and has good villains, and new classes even though they are only 5 lvl prestiges.
The Legacy of the Blood is cool, gives you info on playing as family members of legendary families of the core, Drakovs and Von Zarovichs for example. Gives descriptions, feats, family classes and the like. Overall interesting books. Has good families too like the Meriweathers and Rudolps. Overall excellent book.
To me it is a good line and you could always convert old ravenloft with the new rules provided in the books. Well I hope this will help you.
And yes, you can get a load of info out of those books, each has info and gaming rules on the world of ravenloft. Lots of specialized info based on the setting in each book.
#8
havard
May 02, 2007 12:47:21 Thanks for the feedback guys

Havard
#9
anansi
May 04, 2007 17:29:19
The Legacy of the Blood is cool, gives you info on playing as family members of legendary families of the core, Drakovs and Von Zarovichs for example. Gives descriptions, feats, family classes and the like. Overall interesting books. Has good families too like the Meriweathers and Rudolps. Overall excellent book.

Uh... Legacy of the Blood details the Boritsis, Dilisynas (sp?), d'Honaires, Godefroys, von Zaroviches, Drakovs and Hiregaards. If by "Meriweathers and Rudolps" you mean Weathermays and van Richtens, they aren't mentioned in the book (though the Weathermays are descended from Godefroy stock). Also, Rudolph van Richten is the only living van Richten.

Also, another book not mentioned here is Dark tales and Disturbing Legends. It's like an anthology of adventures that are very flexible. Plus vherteig in general and Maekon in particular = teh hawt sexxorz. I believe DT&DL was the last 3.5 Ravenloft book published.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 havard May 01, 2007 12:16:40	Hi, I haven't played RL since back in the early 90s using the 2e material. I was only a player back then so I never got to read much of those books. Now, this weekend I got my hands on the the "Ravenloft Campaign Setting" and "Masque of Red Death", both for d20 on sale. I have only flipped through the books yet, but I later heard someone say the D20 version wasnt as good (or at least different) than the 2e books. Can someone help shed some light on this? Havard
#2 humanbing May 01, 2007 13:01:24	The layout is somewhat different. For 3rd ed they ditched the wonderful "boxed sets" package and went only with books. The Campaign Setting is workaday and not too great, but it does have the benefit of not being a spoiler for Players to read. Some books are really good: Ravenloft Dungeon Master's Guide is a combination of update to 3.5 and a "Creative Campaigns" from 2nd ed (a handbook to running a campaign and other tips). The Gazetteers are really good. They're indepth and they have good details of almost all the characters in the original 2nd ed. NPCs. Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead is good. Instead of being a load of creatures, it's almost like bringing in a load of skills, feats, and other applicable stuff to liven (?) up the undead in your campaign. Some books are bad: The Ravenloft Player's Handbook is a somewhat shaky attempt to update 3.5 with a load of rules that actually are DM's-eyes-only. I've heard Heroes of Light is a problematic issue. It apparently has some conflicts with canon, e.g. Sheriff von Zarovich. Some books are average: The two Denizens books are the 3.0 and 3.5 updates respectively. Both have errata, but between them they cover most of the 2nd ed. Ravenloft MC1 characters. MC2 isn't, to my knowledge, included - the unique NPCs that appear in it are now dispersed to the other books. And MC3 creatures (at least in part) never make an appearance. That's kind of it.
#3 zombiegleemax May 01, 2007 14:32:35	Actually, it's Champions of Darkness that fiddles more with canon (and has the infamous Sheriff). Heroes of Light is just mediocre. The problem with the new rules for the Ravenloft Player's Handbook isn't so much that they're DM's-eyes-only as that they're Murphy's rules, creating unwanted side effects (for instance, the new druid rules makes it almost impossible for the society of non-evil druids in Forlorn to exist...).
#4 gonzoron May 01, 2007 16:16:51	If I could sum up the d20 RL line in one sentence, I'd say: Amazing "Fluff," wildly varying "crunch". Aside from the infamous Champions of Darkness and Heroes of Light, (and even those have a few worthy moments) every book seems to have the mood captured perfectly, and give a DM lots to work with. But you do have to be careful, since a few of the authors had an incomplete understanding of the d20 rules, so the rule-based stuff goes from perfectly usable, to slightly shaky, to a miserable mess, depending on which book it is. Of the two books you listed, the RCS is pretty good in the rules department, but many people think the MotRD book is pretty bad, rules-wise.
#5 Ith May 01, 2007 17:58:15	I think the d20 Ravenloft is a very good product altogether. They didn't lose the style and feel of the world, and when you're looking to play Ravenloft, that's got to be your main concern. I highly recommend it.
#6 thanael May 02, 2007 4:00:35	And you can get good things even out of the "problematic" books IMHO.
#7 speed6620 May 02, 2007 12:08:52	I have all but maybe six of the 3.0 and 3.5 and have two of those six on order right now. The Denizens of Dread is useful gives you new monsters that are mysterious and have a few weaknesses that are plot entwined and takes investigating to discover. It contains brutes as well though with liches, lycanthropes, etc. Also lots of templates and vampire strains. The van richten guides are nice, Shadow Fey and Walking Dead, the Van Richten's Arsenal also gets good reviews. the PHB 3.5 is handy, more user friendly, but doesn't have much new material, just updates which are useful. The gazetteers are packed with dones of detail and with who's doomed, prestige classes, feats, etc. They are very good books. Champions of Darkness is good for DM info and has good villains, and new classes even though they are only 5 lvl prestiges. The Legacy of the Blood is cool, gives you info on playing as family members of legendary families of the core, Drakovs and Von Zarovichs for example. Gives descriptions, feats, family classes and the like. Overall interesting books. Has good families too like the Meriweathers and Rudolps. Overall excellent book. To me it is a good line and you could always convert old ravenloft with the new rules provided in the books. Well I hope this will help you. And yes, you can get a load of info out of those books, each has info and gaming rules on the world of ravenloft. Lots of specialized info based on the setting in each book.
#8 havard May 02, 2007 12:47:21	Thanks for the feedback guys Havard
#9 anansi May 04, 2007 17:29:19	The Legacy of the Blood is cool, gives you info on playing as family members of legendary families of the core, Drakovs and Von Zarovichs for example. Gives descriptions, feats, family classes and the like. Overall interesting books. Has good families too like the Meriweathers and Rudolps. Overall excellent book. Uh... Legacy of the Blood details the Boritsis, Dilisynas (sp?), d'Honaires, Godefroys, von Zaroviches, Drakovs and Hiregaards. If by "Meriweathers and Rudolps" you mean Weathermays and van Richtens, they aren't mentioned in the book (though the Weathermays are descended from Godefroy stock). Also, Rudolph van Richten is the only living van Richten. Also, another book not mentioned here is Dark tales and Disturbing Legends. It's like an anthology of adventures that are very flexible. Plus vherteig in general and Maekon in particular = teh hawt sexxorz. I believe DT&DL was the last 3.5 Ravenloft book published.