Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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#1ravenloftlover347May 04, 2007 20:41:15 | I'm planning on an adventure that includes an NPC which is a good character from an otherwise evil race. I know this has been done many time before, but is it too cliche now or can it still be pulled off? I want the theme of this adventure to a break from the norm i.e. a good character that is usually an evil monster. |
#2sptjanlyMay 04, 2007 23:18:50 | I say you run the show! Making good NPC's from a otherwise evil race can be done, but how it is done is vital. For example: the followers of Eisistraee (keeping with your drow theme) are good, but they still have the tendency to hold sexist outlooks that have been deeply inbeded by their former society. Eventually they may change this bias, but for the time being it is still something of a character flaw. It is my opinion that every character should have something in their personality like this, because other wise they are just two dimensional. The key to overcoming these flaws is hard for any good character, but eventually they must be placed in a situation where overcoming makes or breaks their newly found allignment. They either grow in their outlook and are humbled by their mistaken ideals or slide back into their old wicked ways. One mistake I think alot of people make is thinking alignment is static once taken and not something to be tested from every angle. If you have access to the Book of Exalted Deeds, on page 11 there is a excellent explanation that might help this question. Its titled Being Ahead Of Your Time and Im not sure why they reserved it for just this book and not something like the DMG. |
#3anansiMay 05, 2007 11:56:19 | I'm planning on an adventure that includes an NPC which is a good character from an otherwise evil race. I know this has been done many time before, but is it too cliche now or can it still be pulled off? I want the theme of this adventure to a break from the norm i.e. a good character that is usually an evil monster. Well, to start off, you've got to figure out why this NPC is good in the first place. Drizzt was more or less "born" good, plus his father, Zaknafein, nurtured this goodness in an attempt to shelter him from the evils of drow society. So was this NPC born/raised good? Or were they once evil, but came to regret their ways and are in the process of redeeming themselves? The concepts of both innocence and redemption are fairly important in Ravenloft. Just out of curiousity, what race is this NPC? |
#4ravenloftlover347May 05, 2007 14:21:06 | The character is a Tepesti goblin in case anyone was wondering. The short of his background is that his family was a dispassionate family of goblins who worked for some local Witches as spies on the hags. The family's true nature was discovered, and all capable members of the family were slain. Zamkur, being the youngest, and judged most likely to die on his own, was spared. However, he was branded as a "Fallenpath," the brandmark can be reconized by an goblin, hag, or follower of Hala. Amongst goblins and hags, he is treated as having a +2 OR, with the reverse being true of Witches and Warlocks. (Also, the welder of a brand of the Fallenpath can track whomever was given the mark to by that brand, and once per day cause the victim to suffer 1d8 damage as if they had just cast an I]inflict light wounds[/i] spell if within 30 feet of the victim.) The witches that worked with his family, took him in with the promise that if he would work for them, they would help him achieve revenge on the hag and goblins that killed his family and made him an outcast. Zamkur took a new name, Kendall Tiolacadh (there's suppose to be a little apostrope thingy over the o, but i don't know how to make that), to separate himself from goblin society, and has dedicated himself to good, with plans to take a test of virtue as soon as he is able. Kendall is slightly formatible now, but if he survives for a few years, the reformed goblin out for vengence will make quite the hag-slayer. |
#5humanbingMay 06, 2007 6:43:04 | I'd say the cliche isn't that some individual from an evil race is good, but that the individual for some reason also is born (or arrives in the campaign ready-made) way more powerful than the others in his race. Drizzt's main problem is that he was far more powerful than most drow, so having the renegade on your team made you able to wade through drow like cannonfodder. If you're going to have a renegade, I'd say make him mostly useful for his knowledge to the group and how he can provide some information to help them avoid the worst of what that race can throw at them. |
#6kwdbladeMay 06, 2007 20:43:21 | The worst goblins could throw at you... scary... |
#7humanbingMay 06, 2007 21:19:15 | The worst goblins could throw at you... scary... Don't underestimate goblins and other so-called fodder races in 3rd ed... they can advance in levels and hit dice, without actually increasing in size or apparent mass. In one mini-campaign I played (not in Ravenloft) my GM had a recurring theme where if we ever saw a single kobold/goblin/derro, it was some ungodly high-level NPC with a buttload of class levels. But otherwise, your disdainful snarky response is well taken. Carry on as usual, corporal. |
#8kwdbladeMay 07, 2007 1:20:33 | Don't underestimate goblins and other so-called fodder races in 3rd ed... they can advance in levels and hit dice, without actually increasing in size or apparent mass. There's a reason my avatar is a rat! :D But I get what you're saying. I personally like using Blue, the psionic goblin. Man, do my players hate psionics... |
#9humanbingMay 07, 2007 6:55:06 | It's interesting - I was writing a fan fiction about Ebb, the Shadow Dragon (the one who lives in Darkon but used to live on a cold outworld). The original back-story for her said that her race of Shadow Dragons was chased off its homeworld when "Humanoids" infiltrated their tunnels and subterranean caverns. In my fanfic I made the humanoids into grimlocks, and I said they came from the surface which was saturated with Positive Energy. And Shadow Dragons are saturated with Negative Energy (as can be seen with their breath weapons). The grimlocks are puny opponents compared to a Shadow Dragon... but they killed them all by using a neat trick - they would thread hoses and pumps from the surface to the lower reaches, and then corner a dragon in a cavern. Then they would pump atmosphere from the planet's upper reaches into the cavern. The Positive Planar Energy from the higher planet would infuse the cavern and eventually choke the dragon to death. |
#10ravenloftlover347May 07, 2007 19:52:03 | I hate to do this, but as my Denizens books have vanished on me, could someone remind me what the major differences between the Ravenloft/Tepestani goblin and the D&D goblin are? |
#11humanbingMay 08, 2007 5:23:35 | Major difference: D&D goblin spelled with an "I". Ravenloft goblyn spelled with a "Y". But seriously, I'll send you the difference in a private message. |
#12ravenloftlover347May 08, 2007 14:39:52 | Ummm, I was referring to the small ones, not the Forlornian monstrous humanoids. I know they get a bonus to trap making instead of ride, but is there any other difference from the "i" spelled goblins of Ravenloft, especially Tepest and the ones presented in the Monster Manual? |
#13kwdbladeMay 09, 2007 3:05:55 | Ah, Ravenloftlover, you never cease to confuse me :D Looking through my Gazetteer V(5), I find under Tempest the 'Dread Goblin'. This variant of Goblin has a +2 racial bonus to Craft (trapmaking) instead of ride. Other than that, the major difference is that they have a rather sophisticated society in Ravenloft, and goblins and hobgoblins are both decendents of the same race (with goblins the hobgoblin equivalent to Calibans). Besides that, I find no reference in the Denizens of Dread book to goblins, only goblyns, which you state you don't want. In the Ravenloft DMG (3.5), I find that goblins have an OR of 4. Hope I helped. P.S. I noticed that you wrote your Denizens BOOKS, as in plural, are missing. Keep in mind my post is related only to 3.x, and if you are talking about 2nd edition ravenloft, then just ignore me. |
#14zombiegleemaxMay 09, 2007 5:44:46 | Hi there, goblyns are monsterous Humanoids wich are terrorizing foldorn. Otherwise they can created trough the Crown of Souls (see the module "Feast of Goblyns") They have nothing to do with normal or "dread" goblins, they are humanoids and have almoust the same stats (as noted earlier in this thread) By the way I like the Idea of the good Goblin. Because Goblins are supposed to be weak and evil. So a misunderstud hearo trying to push back the darkness of the land could be quite cool. |
#15ravenloftlover347May 10, 2007 19:50:29 | I was actually referring to Denizens of Darkness (the 3rd edition) and Denizens of Dread (the 3.5) since they had different titles. I too have the Gazateer V, but wasn't sure if there was something more about the Tepestani goblins in the Ravenloft monster manuals or not since mine are MIA. |
#16kwdbladeMay 10, 2007 19:53:22 | There is no reference to Tespani Goblins in either 3.0 or 3.5 Ravenloft Monster Manuals. Gezateer V has all the info you need. |