From the Back Jacket:
This is the seventh installment in a series of unofficial Gazetteer gaming aids for enthusiasts of the world of Mystara. This work covers the Heldannic Territories, a region at the northern edge of the Known World that was once known as the Heldann Freeholds. Today it is the province of the Knights of
the Heldannic Order, a religious military order once created by the Church of Vanya. For the native Heldanners, it is a bloody occupation of their home. For the Knights, it is a land granted to them by Vanya herself.
As the Faithful of Vanya struggle to contain the hidebound natives, sinister forces work their way unseen, and armies mount across the sea as the time for war approaches. Through it all, once question lingers: will the dawning empire of the Knights be a force for good on Mystara … or for ill?
From the depths of one’s soul to the reaches of space, this is the Heldannic Order.
Uncover the Mysteries. Uncover the Truth.
“The Heldannic Order” provides descriptions of the history, geography, society, fauna, military and personalities of a land occupied but not fully subdued. This product contains both a Referee and a Player Manual. It also has guidelines for two paladin variants, and rules for playing experten – a specialized group of clerics within the Order tasked with handling vampires, witches, and other spawns of chaos.
Get the pdf here.
I've always wanted a campaign based around these guys but have never had the time or enough information for it.Thanks OD and team!
--Ray.
Regards
Gary
Geoff
Lovely work so far! I'll try to share some comments as soon as I can.
Geoff
What he said. Looks very nice
Havard
Old Dawg, you mentioned you used Thorf's illustrator images - are they generally available?
Thanks
Old Dawg, you mentioned you used Thorf's illustrator images - are they generally available?
Yeah, you can get them here.
They are, of course, in an illustrator format. If you just want bitmap versions you could cut n paste them from individual maps.
Regards
Gary
Much fun awaits...
I read through the gazetteer twice over the weekend – an exciting read both times! That said, I have a few general comments, and some questions…
The first thing I would recommend, if the Gaz is ever reissued, is either moving the player’s section to the front of the book, or inserting a note at the beginning, advising GMs to read the player’s section first. The reason for this is that some parts of the GM’s section (especially the piece on governance) expand on what the players are supposed to know. The first time around, I had to jump ahead to read about the Heart, Hammer, and so on, before I fully understood.
The other broad point (and this is only an observation) is that some reference (even just a mention that the information is out there) to the campaign ideas and timelines presented in the Mystaran Almanacs might be helpful – if only to give GMs more fuel for their campaigns, and ideas of how events might develop differently if the players throw a spanner into the works (as they always do).
Here are my more specific questions/suggested edits/etc….
GM’s Book
p. 4: I’m guessing that the historical influence of the Darganites may play a role in subsequent works, but I was hungry for extra information on who Darga is, and how his cult arose.
p. 4: You might want to explain briefly what suttee practices are. Now I know the proper term for the practice of widows throwing themselves onto their husbands’ funeral pyres, though.
p. 5: Klaus Stamhoffer is presented as the second Hochmeister, but in the NPCs section (p. 37) he’s listed as the first.
p. 9: Change “Pflazen” to Pflenzen in the 1st column.
p. 10: Need a few sentences on the Blauchen river system (sometimes written as Bläuchen).
p. 13: The total population of Heldann and Heldland is listed as 250,000. On page 16, we learn that there are 65,000 Nordurlanders – am I right in assuming the population of Heldann proper is then 185,000?
p. 13: Will the Teufel of the Bösenwald make another appearance later? If not, what is he/she/it exactly?
p. 13: What is the population of Vanya’s Rest?
p. 15: What is the population of Althaven?
p. 17: Change “Pflanzen” to Pflenzen (1st column).
p. 18: Are there any stats available for the Tanystropheus or the vapour ghoul?
p. 19: Replace “drug into the water” with dragged (1st column)
p. 19: Just a question, but is the “í” pronounced as a long-I (“ee”)?
p. 20: When you mention that the Order receive 10,000 gp from the Church of Vanya, is that a monthly figure?
p. 20: How to the unofficial synods function, and who sits on them? Are they held only because there might not be enough time to bring an issue before the Freiburg Synod?
p. 21: I think you meant to say “iconic” rather than “iconoclastic” (1st column).
p. 31: Do members of the Priory of Vanya actively work to uncover more secrets or hidden doctrine, as well as protect what exists?
p. 32: The timeline says that the barbarians participated in the rebellion of 978, but here it’s described as taking place in 993.
p. 42: The Star Chamber is mentioned several times – is it just the room where the Synod meets? What other functions does it fill?
p. 44: Replace “routes” with routs (1st column, last sentence of The Great War)
p. 44: The PWA series describes Neuhafen as having been founded by the Knights, not conquered. Do you mean Forton, or someplace else?
Player’s Handbook
p. 2: Kammin was named after the German town of the same name (now Kamien Pomorski in Poland); this would have been what the Heldannic authorities named the Heldanner village that stood there. How about Keflavik, or Kópavogur, as the original name?
p. 3: Replace “neigh” with “nigh”.
p. 4: Perhaps I’m splitting hairs here, but I assume PCs gain the experience points awarded for treasure, even though they have to surrender it all. Is that correct?
p. 5: You might want to avoid specifying how many Experten there are – maybe say there are around twenty, or “a small number”?
p. 7: Are new names expected to be Hattian? Pursuing that thought, are the NPCs names in the personalities section their real names, or those that they chose? Or does this requirement for a new name apply only to foreigners?
p. 10: Under Obedience, add “their” between “as long as” and “Devotion”. I assume you mean that a brother must obey his superiors so long as they are devoted to Vanya – should one’s commander become a heretic, or somehow fall from grace, I would guess that the brother would then be expected to act in the Order’s best interests.
p. 11: Change “Cleanness” to Cleanliness in the 1st column.
p. 13: When selecting a hometown, is it possible for players to choose Vanya’s Rest?
Hope this wasn't too long! Again, the work is excellent, and obviously a labour of love.
Geoff
p. 18: Are there any stats available for the Tanystropheus or the vapour ghoul?
Well I can deal with the vapour ghoul at least, here are the 3.5e stats. The original is one of the few creatures from the original AC9 Creature Catalogue not to make it into the DMR2 Creature Catalog.
Regards
Gary
Just a quick note: on page 1 it is stated that Monte Cook was co-author of X1. That should be changed to David (Zeb?) Cook.
Havard
Speaking of name corrections, replace "John" Ruhland with James, and Jeff's surname is spelled "Daly".
Geoff
Since Geoff bit the bullet and really combed over things, I'll see what I can do about answering his questions and comments. If others have any, feel free to add on.
Ask the Dawg
The first thing I would recommend, if the Gaz is ever reissued, is either moving the player’s section to the front of the book, or inserting a note at the beginning, advising GMs to read the player’s section first.
As best as I can, I'm trying to keep to a RW rule of booklets using a multiple of 4 pages. With Littonia, it was fairly clean to break up the document into ref and player sections, but Heldann was a sprawling mess with so much existing information that one couldn't get a good page count without putting parts in both booklets.
That said, the first actual page of text always has a table of contents. If a player's manual is indicated, it's a good rule of thumb to start there after you read the introduction.
The other broad point (and this is only an observation) is that some reference (even just a mention that the information is out there) to the campaign ideas and timelines presented in the Mystaran Almanacs might be helpful – if only to give GMs more fuel for their campaigns, and ideas of how events might develop differently if the players throw a spanner into the works (as they always do).
I thought I had mentioned the Mystaran Almanacs?
Mea culpa, and apologies to the MA crew for any perceived slights.p. 4: I’m guessing that the historical influence of the Darganites may play a role in subsequent works, but I was hungry for extra information on who Darga is, and how his cult arose.
Darga and Gylgarid (both from X13) and Lokena will continue to make appearances throughout the Norwold gaz's as tertiary story threads to the region. From X13, Darga is an evil figure represented by a winged-man. His clerics were finally destroyed at the site of the Lanquist Priory, which was later renovated for use by the Ruthinian monks before burning down. Only a large stone carving, buried in the ground, remains to mark the time of Darga.
p. 4: You might want to explain briefly what suttee practices are.
I thought people, at least the D&D crowd, would know about suttee. Same meaning here as in the real world - burning the wife on the husband's pyre.
p. 5: Klaus Stamhoffer is presented as the second Hochmeister, but in the NPCs section (p. 37) he’s listed as the first.
Stamhoffer should be listed as the second Grand Master. Bruce originally had him as the first GM, but when you compared the age of Stamhoffer at his death, he would have been around 13 at the time of the Order's creation. So some unspecified person was inserted before him. This first GM is presumably buried in Hattias or Thyatis City and explicitly not the Crypt of Heroes.
(On Pflenzen, Kammin, and Bläuchen)
Both Pflenzen and Kammin sounded Germanic rather than Icelandic, but there were never any write-ups describing their pre-Order names. Since you gave two suggestions for Kammin, why don't we say Keflavik is the old name for Pflanzen and Kópavogur was Kammin.
Bläuchen should indeed be umlauted under the diminitive rule (lit. the little blue). I thought I mentioned that all the waterways in the valley were small, and the Bläuchen not much greater than a large creek.
p. 13: The total population of Heldann and Heldland is listed as 250,000. On page 16, we learn that there are 65,000 Nordurlanders – am I right in assuming the population of Heldann proper is then 185,000?
That is correct: Heldannic Territories + Heldland below Forton River = 250,000. All of this territory was incorporated into the PWA figures, and guestimated over a quarter of the total population - or between 1/3-1/2 of all the non-Order population - was here.
p. 13: Will the Teufel of the Bösenwald make another appearance later? If not, what is he/she/it exactly?
The Teufel appeared unnamed in Bruce's write up of one of the post-Wrath warbirds which was cursed by a demonic spirit that had been contained in the woods of the Altenwald. When its tract was logged and later went into the warbird construction, it took control of the vessel.
I was never able to pick a good backstory for the Devil of the Evil Woods, but he/she/it is old - possibly Carnifex old. The Devil will likely not make any further appearances in the Gaz line, but either the cursed woods or the cursed ship seem like good adventure hooks.
p. 18: Are there any stats available for the Tanystropheus or the vapour ghoul?
The vapor ghoul is from AC9 - basically the OD&D ghast. The Tanystropheus was a Mesozoic marine reptile that was statted in either X1 or the AD&D Monster Manuals (1st Ed).
I'll get to the other points after I have time to look back over things.
-OldDawg
Both Pflenzen and Kammin sounded Germanic rather than Icelandic, but there were never any write-ups describing their pre-Order names. Since you gave two suggestions for Kammin, why don't we say Keflavik is the old name for Pflanzen and Kópavogur was Kammin.
That sounds good to me - I suppose I should have taken the time to do write ups of Pflenzen and Kammin (and the other minor settlements) when I created the Heldann map all those years ago. Alas, I never got around to it...so I suppose it's fair for me to fix my own problem. :embarrass
Thanks for answering my questions - I look forward to more!
Geoff
p. 10: Need a few sentences on the Blauchen river system (sometimes written as Bläuchen).
This excerpt under Forests should answer this more fully
The Schoenwald is one of the few large
tracts of forest outside of the Elber Basin.
The forest occupies a small hilly valley in
the east. The soil here is similar to the
high plains, which allowed the early
forest to take hold. There are no
waterways larger than a creek (the
Blauchen). All moisture comes from
storms that roll off of the Sea of Dawn.
Because of the shallower grade of the
Schoenwald, it has been the Ethengars’
preferred route of attack against Freiburg
and other coastal settlements.
p. 13: What is the population of Vanya’s Rest?
Well, the 11th-20th Glories of Vanya garrison the Rest (9690) along with the 4th Armada (820) and sometimes the 3rd (820). The First Eye of Vanya (Warbird fleet) has three Adlers, 2 Waffenadlers, and 1 Eagle (120+86+146= 352). That's 10,762 personnel. Add in enough priors and serving brothers to make it 11,000. Needless to say, most of the divisions have to be off doing their own adventures on Davania or the Rest becomes very crowded. But -as Mako would say - that is another story.
p. 15: What is the population of Althaven?
Probably 1000-1500. The garrison alone is 250, or about 8 chapters, plus the 1st and 2nd Armadas dock here. Despite the 7 mile distance, Althaven's pop is included in "Greater Freiburg's" total.
p. 19: Just a question, but is the “í” pronounced as a long-I (“ee”)?
My best guess is that it is a long "ee" plus syllable stress.
p. 20: When you mention that the Order receives 10,000 gp from the Church of Vanya, is that a monthly figure?
Yes, 10 kgp per month. Incidentally, the figures for upkeep and wages were ballparked, and the number quoted might be well off. Any difference comes out of the warbird budget, and any surplus should go into civic projects.
p. 20: How do the unofficial synods function, and who sits on them? Are they held only because there might not be enough time to bring an issue before the Freiburg Synod?
I would say these local synods are composed of the resident Landmeister, all province (or at least local) abbots and grand knights, plus some senior priors and chapter leaders. Since its unofficial, membership is sort of "whoever can make it." They can be used either because time is of the essence (can't reach Freiburg) or its a matter of local jurisdication.
p. 31: Do members of the Priory of Vanya actively work to uncover more secrets or hidden doctrine, as well as protect what exists?
This was left deliberately nebulous, and the listed secrets are only suggestions and need not be the "big ones." Depending on how you want to use them, the Priory is both hiding what they know and on the look out for things that could jeopardize the Order's, and the Church's, cohesion. They can be either a "good" group or a "bad" group. They are definitely counter to the Anvil, much as the Free Builders (which had a different name in Bruce's original work) are set up against the Fist of Hattias.
One theory posted long ago was that Vanya was actually Thanatos on his second trip through Immortality - how's that for a secret.
p. 32: The timeline says that the barbarians participated in the rebellion of 978, but here it’s described as taking place in 993.
Both are correct. Uprisings and rebellions were very common after the invasion. The 978 Rebellion was the best chance for native success, and the Knights were pinned behind town walls for a year. It was coordinated between the partisans and the southern barbarians. The 993 Rebellion hit mostly the east, and was primarily done by the partisans and freelance Alphatian wizards. The barbarians tried to take some advantage of the assault on Freiburg, but weren't really doing much but reminding the Knights of their southern problem. When the blowback came, the troll-born paid a disproportionately high price.
p. 42: The Star Chamber is mentioned several times – is it just the room where the Synod meets? What other functions does it fill?
The Star Chamber is either a) the regular meeting room of the Synod, or b) an inquisitor's dungeon below the Fortress's ground level. I'd personally opt for b), but it is the GM's call. Physically, the Star Chamber should have a high ceiling with the inquisitors sitting in ridiculously high benches. As to what else does it do, well, again, up to the GM to flesh out. You could have it as an inner cabal of the Grand Synod - the real powers that be.
There is a Michael Douglas film by this name that might be worth watching if you want some ideas.
p. 44: The PWA series describes Neuhafen as having been founded by the Knights, not conquered. Do you mean Forton, or someplace else?
The folks at the Italian MMB made a good argument about the build up of Neuhafen being too quick, and I used their idea of a pre-existing village, Strondborg. Conquerors' perogative to have "founded" the "new" settlement.
p. 4: Perhaps I’m splitting hairs here, but I assume PCs gain the experience points awarded for treasure, even though they have to surrender it all. Is that correct?
Yes. They have an in-game requirement to turn over loot, but for XP game mechanics they still get the full award (if you use this option).
p. 5: You might want to avoid specifying how many Experten there are – maybe say there are around twenty, or “a small number”?
Hmm, I can't remember if 20 was my choice or something that was a hold over from BH. Colin, do you remember? Anyway, "a small number" works for me.
p. 7: Are new names expected to be Hattian? Pursuing that thought, are the NPCs names in the personalities section their real names, or those that they chose? Or does this requirement for a new name apply only to foreigners?
The new name rule is definitely one of those things not strictly observed. I would say that if you were born into the Church of Vanya - you don't need to change the name, but you can. It is mandatory for non-Vanya-ites joining the Order. The names are not required to be from the Hattian list - in fact, there are all these new Vanya-names that are appearing - but chosing native Heldanner names will raise eyebrows ("what, you're too good to be Hans?").
Known NPCs with name changes: Wulf von Klagendorf (Rolf Schwartzen, new name after his "rebirth"/escape from Synn), Chaplain Thorn (unknown, when found as a child, only had a rune marker bearing the "thorn" letter), Herr Wilhiem (unknown, joined Order to forget about past), Volkan Veraltet (unknown, possibly 3rd or 4th name, spy of the Ears nee Eyes looking for Fist activity)
p. 10: I assume you mean that a brother must obey his superiors so long as they are devoted to Vanya – should one’s commander become a heretic, or somehow fall from grace, I would guess that the brother would then be expected to act in the Order’s best interests.
Yes, duty and loyalty to Vanya and the Order supercede obedience to one's direct commander. Something of this very conflict is developed in the arc All Quiet on the Western Front - with Vanya rather unsubtly letting everyone know where loyalties lie.
p. 13: When selecting a hometown, is it possible for players to choose Vanya’s Rest?
Well, yes and no, but mostly no. Anyone born at Vanya's Rest is either a) a ward of the Order recovered from a local defeated tribe, b) born to pilgrims or others who have not taken the Oath of Service with the attendant vows of chastity in the Code, or c) born of Knights/clerics who have broken their vows. Same goes for Stonehaven and Oostdok. Once pilgrimages are permitted, or the Order relaxes its Code, then characters from elsewhere in the Heldannic Sphere are more acceptable from an in-campaign view.
-OldDawg
[All responses presume canon, the GazF continuity, and the BH files]
Rhialto:
I belief the tomb of Vanya marks the final location of Vanya's mortal form. It is left unclear whether there are actual physical remains there, or if it simply marks the locatiojn she achieved immortality. What is clear though is that that is teh region in which she lived as a mortal.
It is unclear if Vanya was ever in this region. The borders of the old Milenian Empire were never fully established, but the eastern shore line might have been too far out. Likewise there was never any indication of the Rest being tied to where mortal Vanya died or ascended. What is known is that the body found at the Rest was deliberately placed there, by Immortal Vanya, as bait for the Knights to stumble onto the Star.
Traianus Decius Aureus:
Maybe her tomb will unlock a greater mystery that has plagued the order.
Yep. Potentially plaguing the Order and the World.
Traianus Decius Aureus:
I'd like to think the Order's possessions in the Known World, including their grip on the Freeholds, supplies them with enough coin and goods
Yakman:
But would all this interest in Vanya's resting place really lead to colonization? I dunno... one would think that the Heldannic resources are rather stretched already--i can see expeditions, but not full on colonization.
The Heldannic Order is a break-even enterprise heavily dependent (at present) on the generosity of the Church of Vanya in Thyatis. The old Freeholds are basically self-sufficient, but Vanya's Rest and the Hollow World holdings are money losers - from a strictly economic point of view. VR is kept for its religious significance, and could be sustainable with the advent of pilgrimages, but Stonehaven and Oostdok are drains that the Knights are simply too stubborn to let go of.
mah9:
This would of course mean that the Knights would have to beat off native incursions, deal with local monsters etc. Just what they need to build an experienced fighting force. Just what they will need when the guardians of Vanya's Rest decide that the hierarchy in Freiburg has been infiltrated by whichever evil and decide to reclaim it for the "Pure" (or even Thyatis itself). Well that's the way I might DM it.
Valid observations. The garrisons (10 divisions, plus 1 warbird fleet, and 1-2 naval fleets) have to spend much of their time in-country exploring and living off the land so as to avoid overtaxing the resources of the Rest. A large, Star-induced schism looms in the Order's future, if the ref is so inclined to go in that direction.
Yakman:
A few hundred at most--cheap to maintain. I just can't mesh the full-on colonization with the relatively limited resources that the Knights would be likely to have, having just recently seized the Heldannic Freeholds.
Try several thousands. the necessity of having a large garrison affiliated with the Rest is a result of the Princess Ark's original incursion and subsequent skirmishes with the Alphatians. To lose the Freeholds would be a grave setback, but to lose the Rest -isolated and on its own if war came - would cut the heart out of the Order.
-OldDawg
