My question and concern, how are they going to be received? With how rare metal is I'm assuming the adamantine body one is going to look like a walking treasure hoard?
It seems with thrikreen, half giants, gith, etc..etc.. walking around some cities, the novelity of warforged in itself wouldn't be that shocking.
Guess I'm looking for some other view points here on how natives would react. Thanks in advance.
Not to mention the issue with metal bodies under the blazing sun...
They will be killed and sold for parts. unless of course, you can enchant them with something like the Glamored ability, or an alter self or something similar.
Another chance is to take service with a SK QUICKLY.
Another chance is to take service with a SK QUICKLY.
Assuming he or she doesn't dismantle them immediately to learn how to create more (with obsidian/crystal bodies of course).
I'm assuming that without the metal issue they would probably have trouble when the first templar decided to find out how they ticked?
Not to mention the issue with metal bodies under the blazing sun...
Being living constructs they are immune to fatigue and exhaustion. They don't need to eat or drink and are not subject to dehydration. So I'm guessing that the sun isn't going to do a whole lot to them.
I think it was mentioned in the FAQ that a warforged that is disassembled quickly rusts and degrades, so nothing can be salvaged from them.
That rule is pretty lame. Obviously just made to prevent exploiting characters. More importantly, nobody on Athas would know that anyway.
I think it was mentioned in the FAQ that a warforged that is disassembled quickly rusts and degrades, so nothing can be salvaged from them.
I would say that ruling was made simply becouse some players would play a warforged with adamantine body, kill there character off, then oh look we have a fresh supply of adamantine to our disposal. But even so, people in dark sun won't know that.
For a Warforged in Dark sun, I'd tend to look back at how you handled metal being brought to Athas. Now, the 2E materials, if memory served, were a bit outlandish. But I'd rule that the metal would degrade and fall apart -- corrode, rust, or otherwise become oxidized or eaten away by the environment. Sure, some tidbits would survive... but honestly, at that point, the Warforged would be dead anyway, after quite a bit of excruciating pain.... Imagine taking a bath in a pool of acid, I'd imagine it would be quite similar.
Why. Adamatine does rust or corrode and even if it did the dry enviroment of Athas would preserve metals not destroy them.
I.E. - mines filled with noxious gases or ruins under water (yes even though water is rare), since warforged don't breath and don't need water or food...they could be very useful for certain purposes.
Why. Adamatine does rust or corrode and even if it did the dry enviroment of Athas would preserve metals not destroy them.
Because it would fall in-line with the ideals of what was done in the 2E books on what to do when people come from another world to Athas. the difference being that the 2E materials tend to suggest that their metal changes into something Athasian... I don't care for that, because of suspension of disbelief issues. However, I tend to think something happened to the metal on Athas. There could easily be something that is left in the world that does corrode and/or destroy metal over time... those bits of metal that are left have proven to be somewhat "resilient" to the effects, but something from off-world wouldn't be. I tend to believe that the Athasian environment is extra harsh to metal... possibly a side-effect of the drastic and rather encompassing defiling that has taken place over the centuries. Whatever metal is left, tends to be stockpiled and hoarded by those who have it. And yes, I'd even would say that Adamantine would also have problems in Athas. Otherwise, that would be one of the the most prevalent metal found on Athas.
Oh, and for the record, iron & steel rust very quickly in dry, desert conditions. It isn't the amount of water in the air -- it's how good the environment sets up the process of oxidization -- a dry, hot environment would raise the temperature of the metal, and make it more conducive to bond with oxygen atoms. Water is most definitely not needed for this process to occur -- just oxygen.
I'd also like to note that any Warforged, besides being in a toxic environment on Athas... they'd have serious problems with people trying to more or less steal the metal -- which typically would mean, kill the Warforged. Athas most definitely wouldn't be a place any Warforged would want to spend any time on. Sure, they might have no problem with food & drink... but the Athasian sun is quite hot and unforgiving. Metal tends to conduct heat (and conduct heat rather well)... at the very least, the Warforged would be potentially dangerous to the touch during the heat of the day, if not potentially a fire hazard to anything flammable near them... or equipped on them.
Also, the rusting of iron does require mositure, as well as oxygen and electrolytes.
As for adamant, I've ruled that it never existed on athas in any respectable quantities.
It would be pretty hard, even during the hottest mid-day athasian sun, to get a metal to a temperature that would ignite much of anything, though touching a warforged that had been in the sun all day could result in a minor burn I would imagine.
I always ignored the arbitrary destruction of metal items brought from beyond Athas. I see no plausible reason why Athas would be more harsh on metals than other worlds.
Environment radically altered & shaped by highly destructive magic, by people who pay little to no heed to what the effects of their wanton destruction has caused perhaps?
Also, the rusting of iron does require mositure, as well as oxygen and electrolytes.
Then apparently, there's a decent amount of moisture free-floating in the deserts, because it takes almost no time for anything made of iron to get rusted out (like the Mojave Desert, or in Death Valley even). Must be dew -- because honestly, when I remember living in the desert, moisture wasn't something all that common.
Guess I'm wondering what will happen to our heroes more then anything. I'm guessing templars show up with a half dozen half giants, brought to sorceror-king/queen and then either dismantled, recruited as gladiators, and/or used for very specific jobs.
I guess the only certainty from all the discussion is the fact that once discovered to be metallic they would become the biggest target in the tablelands and face aquisition as a prize to be displayed or as a source of a very valuable commodity from just about every direction.
Your previous analogy of a walking treaure hoard seemed quite apt.
You may as well just paint a huge bullseye on them and wait for the inevitable.:P
Just my 2p
I guess the only certainty from all the discussion is the fact that once discovered to be metallic they would become the biggest target in the tablelands and face aquisition as a prize to be displayed or as a source of a very valuable commodity from just about every direction.
Your previous analogy of a walking treaure hoard seemed quite apt.
You may as well just paint a huge bullseye on them and wait for the inevitable.:P
Just my 2p
Well once my character realizes his danger he will have some serious moral questions. The other serious issue is he is a wizard. He doesn't realize magic is outlawed either.
I'm guessing at some point I will have a few options:
*One...get on the good side of a sorceror king/queen, and considering he is good this wouldn't probably work out eventually.
*Two...join the veiled alliance and get some help from them.
*Three...get help from another powerful benefactor and get out of the city.
*Four...find a way to hide his true nature.
Something else to maybe consider is that Athas has a really different kind of magic on it. Maybe thinking about what effects, if any, moving into the Athasian environment would have on any magic the War-forged character(s) have, items they carry, or were constructed from. For instance, I tend to rule that otherworldly divine magic simply ceases to function, in a similar manner, so does dragonlance arcane (three Wizard orders) magic. What I'm getting at is... I'd question whether the magic that holds the Warforged together and makes that race effectively function & be alive... would still work in Athas. While it would make for a very short existence and campaign in your case, I would potentially rule that the Warforged simply falls apart and dies either the instant he steps into Athas' world, or shortly thereafter, as the magic holding him together unravels.
The only thing magical about a warforged is when they are created. After that, they are a living creature no different then any other. There is nothing magical about them, they don't glow if someone casts "detect magic", they are as natural as any other living creature.
I guess I don't see any reason my character or the other warforged would just fall apart. There are far more magical creatures like "elementals" that seem to function just fine on Athas.
Thanks for all the ideas and thoughts though. Very interesting to hear everyones views and such and ideas.
Part of the interest of the character could be a desire to find out where they came from, only to discover that:
1)they are the first in a series of new warriors created by a SK.
2)they are a throwback to an earlier age, and they must recover their memories to uncover the past.
3)they are a creation of the Order, trying to uncover the secrets of life and consciousness.
make them something native to Athas, and not metal. You'll live longer, and it will be self contained.
I would make the Warforged be made out of something other than Admantium or mithril or whatever. Make it native to Athas. You could have the same effects as any of the body feats by other means. And a Warforged with Obsidian plating would still look just as cool.
Part of the interest of the character could be a desire to find out where they came from, only to discover that:
1)they are the first in a series of new warriors created by a SK.
2)they are a throwback to an earlier age, and they must recover their memories to uncover the past.
3)they are a creation of the Order, trying to uncover the secrets of life and consciousness.
make them something native to Athas, and not metal. You'll live longer, and it will be self contained.
Cool ideas. Sorry if I didn't clarify but the warforged characters are originally from Eberron. They ended up traveling the planes and ended up in Athas recently. This was more of an accident but now they are here.
So making them not metal isn't really an option unless the DM decides to rule that they magically change to non-metal.
Also, as far as I know, Eberron is a self-contained multiverse, so Athas wouldn't exist as part of it. I know that you can do whatever you want, but as a point of clarity, the two worlds don't exist for each other.
I understand that the way it is now would have them be from Eberron. However, I was wondering if you could change it to one of the things I mentioned above. I think that this will actually help your character, and provide better role playing opportunities.
Also, as far as I know, Eberron is a self-contained multiverse, so Athas wouldn't exist as part of it. I know that you can do whatever you want, but as a point of clarity, the two worlds don't exist for each other.
Well as far as we know this was a one way ticket to a different entire multiverse. So basically no chance of returning and no simple Gate spell back home. We are completely cut off. So we won't have others of our kind ever showing up again.
Thinking about possible ideas...there anyway that some might mistake the warforged as long lost champions of rajaat? Something along those lines? Basically since they look so alien and almost encased in ancient armor of lore.
Thinking about possible ideas...there anyway that some might mistake the warforged as long lost champions of rajaat? Something along those lines? Basically since they look so alien and almost encased in ancient armor of lore.
I'd say unlikely. The only people who really know anything about the Champions of Rajaat any more are the Champions of Rajaat. Oh, and apparently the entire City-State of Tyr for some reason if you believe everything from the novels. Anyway... the Champions were not necessarily noted for wearing metal armor (the very notion of wearing metal armor is...as outrageous as a Dwarf with a full beard, or an honest, completely respectable Elf!)
I'd say it really does depend on how widespread knowledge of the Champions is. In my setting, nobody, and I mean nobody the players would run across had even heard of Rajaat. The Dragon is a mythical beast used to scare children into obeying, the Sorcerer-Kings being dragons themselves is suicidal crazy talk best kept to yourself lest the Templar catch wind of such blasphemy.
I'd say unlikely. The only people who really know anything about the Champions of Rajaat any more are the Champions of Rajaat. Oh, and apparently the entire City-State of Tyr for some reason if you believe everything from the novels. Anyway... the Champions were not necessarily noted for wearing metal armor (the very notion of wearing metal armor is...as outrageous as a Dwarf with a full beard, or an honest, completely respectable Elf!)
I'd say it really does depend on how widespread knowledge of the Champions is. In my setting, nobody, and I mean nobody the players would run across had even heard of Rajaat. The Dragon is a mythical beast used to scare children into obeying, the Sorcerer-Kings being dragons themselves is suicidal crazy talk best kept to yourself lest the Templar catch wind of such blasphemy.
So how about the Champions of Rajaat then? Might they assume at first that perhaps the warforged are at first one of their long lost brothers or sisters? I mean initially might they cordially invite them for a formal meeting.
Then shortly after when the said sorceror king/queen finds out what they truly are, decide, "Hmm, I have a use for you tools."
Many denizens would be interested in these characters for good or ill. Some may think that they are some creation of the Pristine Tower or even of some magic-wielding person. At first they may be perceived as a golem-like creation, possibly, because they are made of metal, created by an earth cleric or some psionicist. It may be inferred that they are under the control of some other character in the party. The members of the party could even play this up.
There is also potential for some interesting side treks. Possibly some individual, be it a high ranking templar or mage, or even a sorcerer-king, might take interest and try to capture the warforged for study. They may think it is the creation of a rival sorcerer-king or some-such powerful individual or group. I would think that any interest in these characters would be to capture rather than kill them. This could lead to the other members of the party mounting a rescue. This would be much more fun and interesting for the group.
There are lots of things you can do with this.
So how about the Champions of Rajaat then? Might they assume at first that perhaps the warforged are at first one of their long lost brothers or sisters? I mean initially might they cordially invite them for a formal meeting.
Unlikely, there is a very limited set of Champions of Rajaat according to the materials. They all know each other -- the ones still around are the Sorcerer-Kings, the rebel Champions who overthrew Rajaat and imprisoned him. Warforged also just wouldn't have that fresh dragon "smell".
Then shortly after when the said sorceror king/queen finds out what they truly are, decide, "Hmm, I have a use for you tools."
While I'm not against this line of thought, the idea that a Sorcerer-King/Queen, with their myriad of epic-level spellcasting and impressive psionics would make them very rapidly identify that the Warforged is nowhere even remotely near the power of their peers. we're talking a difference between a pawn chess piece and a world champion chess player -- not even remotely in the same league.
I would hope that the GM doesn't get it in his mind to eliminate these characters out of hand just because the are made of metal. I would think that the players would be terribly upset. There is plenty of potential for interesting games with a situation like this.
Many denizens would be interested in these characters for good or ill. Some may think that they are some creation of the Pristine Tower or even of some magic-wielding person. At first they may be perceived as a golem-like creation, possibly, because they are made of metal, created by an earth cleric or some psionicist. It may be inferred that they are under the control of some other character in the party. The members of the party could even play this up.
There is also potential for some interesting side treks. Possibly some individual, be it a high ranking templar or mage, or even a sorcerer-king, might take interest and try to capture the warforged for study. They may think it is the creation of a rival sorcerer-king or some-such powerful individual or group. I would think that any interest in these characters would be to capture rather than kill them. This could lead to the other members of the party mounting a rescue. This would be much more fun and interesting for the group.
There are lots of things you can do with this.
Oh, I'll agree, there is some interesting campaign story adventure ideas to run with. I'd just want to make sure that the Warforged characters understand that their unique status and kind of existence does not necessarily equal some kind of "easier means of survival" on Athas. For instance, my earlier suggestion that the very environment of Athas could be toxic to them, does not necessarily mean instantly so. It could wear on them so that over the course of several game sessions, they begin to take notice that things aren't right. Maybe the magic binding them together starts to weaken a bit, the metal of their bodies begins to corrode, rust, or simply show signs of being eaten away by bizarre erosion effects. all of this while they are dealing with people wanting them for their metal, and/or as prized possessions. All kinds of things would be able to be pitted against the Warforged in question making them have about as much fun as a Paladin would as a guest in Castle Ravenloft of Barovia.
Unless the Dm is being a sod theres nothing inherent on Athas that would muck up a Warforged assuming you could get one there. However the natives would probably want to mug/destroy the Warforged for the materials. I really liked the living construct subtype and created an Athasian equivilent-Psiforged
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=853153
Sounds like a fun game. I wonder if you could put a lightnnig rail in the old green age tunnels:P
For instance, my earlier suggestion that the very environment of Athas could be toxic to them, does not necessarily mean instantly so. It could wear on them so that over the course of several game sessions, they begin to take notice that things aren't right. Maybe the magic binding them together starts to weaken a bit, the metal of their bodies begins to corrode, rust, or simply show signs of being eaten away by bizarre erosion effects.
Since warforged are not immune to environmental effects, there is already a mechanic available for doing something similar to this. High heat dangers can affect warforged. In fact, because they are considered to be wearing armor, they will gain a -4 modifier on any Fort saves made to resist heat damage. This is about as "toxic" as I would make it. This could lead them to finding some magic which would help them to resist the environment's damaging effects.
Since warforged are not immune to environmental effects, there is already a mechanic available for doing something similar to this. High heat dangers can affect warforged. In fact, because they are considered to be wearing armor, they will gain a -4 modifier on any Fort saves made to resist heat damage. This is about as "toxic" as I would make it. This could lead them to finding some magic which would help them to resist the environment's damaging effects.
I'm not exactly sure how the weather would effect warforged. The rules I've seen from athas.org describes the issues suffered from dehydration and fatigue/exhaustion leading to non-lethal damage...due to the extreme heat and/or cold.
Under warforged it states: Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, effects that cause the sickened condition, and energy drain.
Looking at rules for heat damage it talks about taking nonlethal damage from heat exposure causes heatstroke and results in becoming fatigued (which warforged are immune to becoming).
Then later it speaks about taking damage from breathing in the air (which warforged don't have to breathe).
I realize that warforged are not immune to non-lethal damage; however, most of the reasons you suffer from "heat dangers" are related to the affect it has on a living body...overheating and dehydration, etc...
I'm assuming that without the metal issue they would probably have trouble when the first templar decided to find out how they ticked?
Why is there the assumption that the templars or anyone/thing else automatically realize they were constructed beings/machines? We're talking about a pre-industrial creature: they're just going to look like big creatures made of metal to the majority and perhaps to the Sorcerer-kings as well. There aren't a lot of constructs walking around from what we see in the source material so I think the vast majority would be more inclined to see the Warforged as mutants than anything else.
So the idea that they would be seen and immediately desired as objects to be taken apart and studied doesn't seem a concern to me at all, though being seen as mutants to be killed and the pieces sold for money is another matter... (And if they were smart, they might not ever mention the fact that they are constructed beings.)
I think there would be far more interest in where they came from and what prompted them to come to the Tyr region.
Why is there the assumption that the templars or anyone/thing else automatically realize they were constructed beings/machines?
I guess for the fact that they are living constructs. They don't look insectoid, they don't look like mutants, they don't look living, they don't breathe, they are obviously not elves. There subtype is living construct. So if they are constructs one would assume they obviously look like constructs.
They basically look more like the Obsidian golems of I forget which city state (was in 2nd Edition Book of Artifacts), then the guy living next door. If they are mistaken for anything other then constructs it would be undead.
What it seems to me though is there aren't really rules for how a warforged would react to the extreme heat of Athas.
So, if I were dm, I would make'em up. Heat would damage a warforged because heat has damaging effects on actual metals. Basic physics would come into play and offer some simple rules.
As far as how the populace would react? Well, consider that they flip out and try and kill someone who casts magic missle. I don't think a warforged would have an easy time of it at all.
Looking at rules for heat damage it talks about taking nonlethal damage from heat exposure causes heatstroke and results in becoming fatigued (which warforged are immune to becoming).
Then later it speaks about taking damage from breathing in the air (which warforged don't have to breathe).
I realize that warforged are not immune to non-lethal damage; however, most of the reasons you suffer from "heat dangers" are related to the affect it has on a living body...overheating and dehydration, etc...
Yes, they would be immune to fatigue or taking damage from breathing in the air. They are not immune to taking enough non-lethal damage to knock them unconcious. At which point, they start taking lethal damage from the heat. Because they are considered armored, they would be more susceptable to these effects.
Environment radically altered & shaped by highly destructive magic, by people who pay little to no heed to what the effects of their wanton destruction has caused perhaps?
I don't see what possible environmental changes could have occured that would alter the way corrosion works, unless corrosion on Athas is fundamentally different from corrosion on the real world.
Personally, I see no reason to infer such changes.
Then apparently, there's a decent amount of moisture free-floating in the deserts, because it takes almost no time for anything made of iron to get rusted out (like the Mojave Desert, or in Death Valley even). Must be dew -- because honestly, when I remember living in the desert, moisture wasn't something all that common.
Most deserts have vast quantities of moisture in the air.
There is no where on this earth with 0% humidity. Some places get close (central antartica), but moisture is everywhere. Death valley certainly has respectable humidity and the Mojave desert is usually around 30-40% relative humidity. Also, the hotter an area is the more moisture it can hold. 30% relative humidity in death valley would be near 100% in many cooler, higher, places.
Fill a glass with ice water and take it outside. If the outside of the glass does not get damp at all, then the humidity might be low enough to inhibit rust.
I guess for the fact that they are living constructs. They don't look insectoid, they don't look like mutants, they don't look living, they don't breathe, they are obviously not elves. There subtype is living construct. So if they are constructs one would assume they obviously look like constructs.
That's my question, though: why would they assume they are constructed creatures? Do they see a lot of constructed creatures? Is there widespread knowledge of that sort of thing among the general populace?
We're not talking a modern, educated society, after all. It's not like they would see a metal person and think "robot" (or its equivalent) anymore than a feudal European peasant, priest, or lord would do so or would even think "look, a machine!"
We are, after all, talking about a world where giant spiders made out of crystal stalk the deserts, and which the populace does not consider to be or think about as "constructs" or "machines", just as really big, dangerous spiders made out of a valuable material.
In other news a thread on Warforged is the 2nd most popular thread on the front page that isn't a sticky. My theory is that since its not about Rajaat/Dragons it stands out and attracts thoe jaded beings amoung us. Go Eberron
Well my theory is any use of the Dark Sun world is a good use. Even if every Drizzt Do'Urden clone, Lord Soth clone, and yes warforged are the only characters showing up. It is just good to revive this dusty old world, abandoned by WotC among many others.
At first I didn't like Warforged but they're growing on me. I did like the living construct subtype though and created one of my own. Theres also been Warforged threads on the FR boards as well and they've probably crept into other worlds boards as well.
My theory is thus. Most worlds even ones I don't personally like that much have something useable in them. I have spend thousands of $$$ on D&D material since 94. If I use Yuan Ti alot on Athas or any world I will for example use Serpent Kingdoms from Forgotten Realms for them as its the best Yuan Ti book out there. I mine my sourcebooks for useable material and alot of FR material makes its way into other games I run. In 2nd ed Faiths and Avatars was heavily mined for my own campaign priests.
I'll use feats, spells, and equipment from any source as long as it doesn't contradict to badly the setting I'm running. Frostburn isn't to usefull for Dark Sun but if some one wants to use a Jovar form the Planar Handbook go right ahead.
Warforged do have their charms. Personally I wouldn't allow one on Athas but if someone really wanted one I would at least consider it.
At first I didn't like Warforged but they're growing on me. I did like the living construct subtype though and created one of my own. Theres also been Warforged threads on the FR boards as well and they've probably crept into other worlds boards as well.
My theory is thus. Most worlds even ones I don't personally like that much have something useable in them. I have spend thousands of $$$ on D&D material since 94. If I use Yuan Ti alot on Athas or any world I will for example use Serpent Kingdoms from Forgotten Realms for them as its the best Yuan Ti book out there. I mine my sourcebooks for useable material and alot of FR material makes its way into other games I run. In 2nd ed Faiths and Avatars was heavily mined for my own campaign priests.
I'll use feats, spells, and equipment from any source as long as it doesn't contradict to badly the setting I'm running. Frostburn isn't to usefull for Dark Sun but if some one wants to use a Jovar form the Planar Handbook go right ahead.
Warforged do have their charms. Personally I wouldn't allow one on Athas but if someone really wanted one I would at least consider it.
Well the main reason our characters are kind of jumping around is due to different GM's running at different times. I originally started by running an Eberron campaign...and when I stopped for awhile, someone else picked up.
They didn't have any Eberron books and didn't feel comfortable running in that world so they moved the characters to the Forgotten Realms. I personally hate the Forgotten Realms and much to my enjoyment we have ended up on Athas. I wouldn't be shocked if we end up moving on again and have a hunch that the characters will probably end up in Ravenloft.
I was a huge 2nd edition AD&D fan, and was very resistant to playing D&D 3.5. I've slowly come around and really enjoyed Eberron compared to other 3.5 worlds. I guess the old worlds just seemed more 2nd edition to me. Well that being said, I fell in love with the idea of a warforged wizard. Just thought it was pretty unique and/or different.
I've added a wand sheath (warforged component) and my aureon's spellshard (spell book but gem) turned into a warforged component. My character often adds gems and other metals to his body as tattoo like designs...and I could see adding chitin/bone pieces now in Athas.
I love Athas, but this character was definately not made knowing I was going to end up here. Now that I'm here I will try and make the best of it.
Eberron is really the 1st D&D world that kinda makes sense when it comes to the evolution of technology and magic. Its hard to be a heroic knight in D&D when a hold monster spell is often followed by a coup de grace.
Magic is alot rarer in Athas compared to other worlds while Eberron is quite rich and has reasonably logical magic technology with magical equivilents of trains, communications and skyships. Magic has been used too improve the lives of the commen folk lke crop yields etc.
Just checked Races of Eberron and Warforged are suspectabe to extremes of heat and cold so the Athasian sun can inflict non lethal damage on one. A Warforged though won't die form exposure at worst just being reduced to negative 1 hp or less and becoming inactive until repaired or healed by a repair construct spell or power.
Eberon demihumans are alot more interesting than core/FR ones. I'm a bit sick of CG hippie elves who live in the forest or LG dour Dwarves most settings use.
Eberon demihumans are alot more interesting than core/FR ones. I'm a bit sick of CG hippie elves who live in the forest or LG dour Dwarves most settings use.
Yes I agree. I also like how the alignment issue is blurred. There are evil priests of good gods, and good priests of evil gods. Also using an evil descriptor spell for a good purpose is considered good.
All reasons I originally picked Eberron. Dark Sun was the original world that stretched alignment. There really weren't paladins running around saving everyone. Most are just trying to survive. So being good was really quite odd. You sacrificed what to help that stranger!??
Just like Laf has explained i'm sick of Forgotten Realms also. Everything in that realm seems to revolve around elves, and I'm kind of anti-elf.
On another note, Laf did start the campaign originally, he wanted to run something different and we all took a vote and agreed on Eberron which worked really well for us. However somethings happends and we stopped playing and another friend picked up the campaign but since he doesn't konw anything about Eberron he moved us to the Forgotten Realms /sigh. He was supose to run things there but couldn't make sessions so i picked up the group and moved them to Athas. They wanted a challange well its going to be quite a ride for these Warforged.
All the ideas you guys are posting are good once. I have to agree with the post that Not everybody will konw what a Construct is. To most of these people they are just seeing a walking suit of full plate armor with a bunch of wood and some organic material under it. So call it alien, but I see it in a different way which I can't post right now becouse Laf is one of them in the group and I don't want to spoil it for him. I do see them being effected by the Extreme Heat, since there is living organic material in them, so non-lethal damage would apply but they are not affected by fatigue. But i'm still up in the air on that.
I do see them being effected by the Extreme Heat, since there is living organic material in them, so non-lethal damage would apply but they are not affected by fatigue. But i'm still up in the air on that.
Here's something to consider: Athas is about gritty desert survival adventure, and the environmental dangers are a part of that. If the heat/water isn't going to be a problem, compensate with something else. The unpredictable and deadly winds can still pick them up, the sand can get into their fine working parts and cause problems unless cleaned out regularly, etc.
Obviously, they're already going to have a tough time of it, since healing magics that function at full effectiveness are going to be scarce (if not non-existant) for them and their unusual appearances and composition are going to stir up unhealthy interest in them on any number of quarters.
I really hope you post about your sessions, I'm curious to see how things will progress!
I already had a houserule about alignment based spells which was the elements wouldn't really care less what alignment spells their Clerics cast.
I did a house rule very similar. I allow my good clerics to cast some evil aligned spells but only if there for good reasons. Like Example "Deathwatch" A good cleric can cast it, it only allows him to monitor his party/allies HP if they drop below 3, and it can't be cast so he can back stab a party member.
So... This warforged is a mage, right? What if his admantium or mithril body became obsidian? Give him some kind of casting advantage or something, like +1CL or a raze feat for free? Could be kind of cool...
I just had an interesting idea. Somewhere I remember a rule (I think it was 2ed, the revised setting or Defilers and Preservers) that said metal weapons and armor brought to Athas from elsewhere would change to a equivalent type of material on Athas. So a steel sword would actually become bone.
So... This warforged is a mage, right? What if his admantium or mithril body became obsidian? Give him some kind of casting advantage or something, like +1CL or a raze feat for free? Could be kind of cool...
Now, you see, that's the same rule I was trying to base off of, except I never liked that it transformed into something of an athasian-type of material. I rather would see that the metal decays and/or erodes significantly. Steel becoming bone to me makes no sense.
One is a warrior with adamantine body and a battlefist. With a great sword made from flametouched iron.
The other is a mage with composite plating enchanted with twilight armor (makes metal appear translucent). The mage has etchings on his composite plating with rubies and other gems set into them, forming tattoo like patterns.
There are two warforged actually.
One is a warrior with adamantine body and a battlefist. With a great sword made from flametouched iron.
The other is a mage with composite plating enchanted with twilight armor (makes metal appear translucent). The mage has etchings on his composite plating with rubies and other gems set into them, forming tattoo like patterns.
One would think that the metal sword would be enough to get him mugged. However since metal is expesive on Athas only high level type or nobles can really afford- ie they can also probably protect it as well.
Steel becoming bone to me makes no sense.
But you don't blink when people "will" a mysterious green energy from out of plants to make themselves invisible, etc? :D
But you don't blink when people "will" a mysterious green energy from out of plants to make themselves invisible, etc? :D
There is a reason and logic behind it defined in the setting. Don't get me wrong, I am not talking about reality vs fantasy. I'm talking about explainable reasons for things, and something that sounds.... hooky.
I just had an interesting idea. Somewhere I remember a rule (I think it was 2ed, the revised setting or Defilers and Preservers) that said metal weapons and armor brought to Athas from elsewhere would change to a equivalent type of material on Athas. So a steel sword would actually become bone.
I never liked this theory, its really makes no sense. I can understand that there is no metal of the type adamantine on athas, but that doesn't mean that aliens of the world are going to magically change to adapt to what they have. Same concept would be if Aliens come to our planet and becouse we don't have there kind of Metal that there ships are made of doesn't mean its going to change into the type of metal that we have. besides there really is no saying that there is No adamantine or flame touched iron. Maybe it just hasn't been discovered yet. There are parts in mountains that natives can't get to. Kind of like steel, they have the ore there to make it but they don't possess the recipy to make it.
I also agre on what..can't get his name so what that person said about metal and nobles. If a group of strange people with lets of metal comes walking into town, especially a town with a Sorceror King. I personally as a commoner of that town would stop to think they are here to see the SK. They have all that metal they must be dangerous. Atleast that would be my first conception of commoner reaction.
There is a reason and logic behind it defined in the setting. Don't get me wrong, I am not talking about reality vs fantasy. I'm talking about explainable reasons for things, and something that sounds.... hooky.
I don't see how it makes any less sense. It's a magic property of the plane that changes materials from one type to another. A sort of cosmic joke. :P
Perhaps a member of the Order who is a master of Pyschoportation and Clairsentience watches the borders of reality and steals all metal/forbidden items replacing them with similar items made of more acceptable materials with his powers of teleportation. :D
I don't see how it makes any less sense. It's a magic property of the plane that changes materials from one type to another. A sort of cosmic joke. :P
That would tend to imply some sort of cosmic sentience or deity at work, which for Dark Sun doesn't work for me.
Perhaps a member of the Order who is a master of Pyschoportation and Clairsentience watches the borders of reality and steals all metal/forbidden items replacing them with similar items made of more acceptable materials with his powers of teleportation. :D
See, the problem I have with that is.... as it stands, I only allow one "transitive" plane to provide access to Athas directly. One that is almost completely unknown on Athas (partially now because of the lack of metal) -- the Plane of Mirrors. Which is how I envision the Planar Gate provides access to other worlds -- in fact, it really is the only gateway to other worlds in how I handle Dark Sun -- the Palne of Mirrors is so unknown that Rajaat never was able to figure it out (once again, for my take on Dark Sun).
So.... this idea of some overmind at the Order playing tricks like this... just doesn't mesh.
In game explaination would be an epic spell that covers the whole world that transmutes non Athasian weapons into something else.
Which means someone had to have cast it, knowing what non-athasian weapons were, or even that they exist. For that to have happened, someone would have had to encounter them somehow. Which means there would have been some kind of interplanar travel, and some desperate need to do such a thing. It seems.... farfetched, and as much of a cop-out as the 2Emechanic for this all feels like in the first place. Too many "ifs" needed to explain the situation. For me, the idea that a magical war raging for thousands of years driven by defilers who tend to have no consideration as to what the long-term effects of their magic would do resulting in something that is destructive to metal is much simpler than a series of ifs.
In game explaination would be an epic spell that covers the whole world that transmutes non Athasian weapons into something else.
I think you guys are getting a little to fictional. My only problem with this whole thing of Alien Metals turning into something that matches the world of Athas is what SK wouldn't want the alien metals. Now granted, SK's are like epic levels themselves so its not like Metal is something they need, they can just crush a whole group with a simple bone dagger. But I can't see why somebody would want to make Alien Metal non-metal in the first place, let alone why would any god in athas even care.
That would tend to imply some sort of cosmic sentience or deity at work, which for Dark Sun doesn't work for me.
It doesn't imply anything of the sort. At most it implies a natural property of the plane that transmutes foreign metallic objects into wood, bone, stone and/or obsidian analogues. It's magic! It's a planar trait of the Athasian realm.
Otherwise, what? Gravity and time imply sentience or a deity?
It doesn't imply anything of the sort. At most it implies a natural property of the plane that transmutes foreign metallic objects into wood, bone, stone and/or obsidian analogues. It's magic! It's a planar trait of the Athasian realm.
Otherwise, what? Gravity and time imply sentience or a deity?
The argument seems to be a bit weak. You are making "magic" be a cop out for something that doesn't make sense. Things can make some sort of logical sense without them being in reality. Heck, realism itself doesn't equate to reality, just the semblance of reality, enough to "suspend disbelief" -- which the idea that a plane would have some completely coincidental property that happens to convert foreign metallic objects into wood, bone, stone, or obsidian -- a plane where those materials really weren't predominantly used except for during the Age of the Sorcerer Kings (and then became widespread used as metal became sparse) is just... I can't suspend disbelief enough for that. The coincidence smacks too much of "cheap cop-out" rather than something that really helps immerse me into the setting.
The notion that foreign metals would just happen to turn into the equivalently-used materials used on Athas since the Green Age ended either is extremely weak, or it implies that someone engineered the plane to function that way. And once again, if someone engineered it to function that way, that implies sentience at work. And like I said before, and Jon reiterated, if 99.9999999999999999% of Athasians don't even know that the multiverse exists (outside of the Black, Gray, and Elemental planes), the very notion that someone powerful enough to be able to alter the Athasian planes enough to make this kind of a fundamental change to them would even know that this kind of a change was necessary (and let's not even begin to look at how something like this could even remotely be "necessary").
Sorry, I tend to favor Occam's Razor on things. And this fails on so many levels when checked against it, that I just can't accept it. I've tried to make another, more logical-sounding idea for why there is a lack of metals, and what could happen to the metals that are somehow brought from another world to Athas. For me, it works, I'm able to suspend disbelief and move forward in how I define Dark Sun for my campaigns.
... and Jon reiterated, if 99.9999999999999999% of Athasians don't even know that the multiverse exists...
*waves and smiles*
ehm... Who's Jon?
1. Athas didn't have particuly large amounts of metallic ore anyway.
2. The Ancients used up alot of the easily reachable ore
3. The defiling may have ruined some veins.
4. The collapse of trade routes etc cut off access to metal.
Imagine if in real life the atlantic ocean and Mediterranian dried up and became silt. The Cathagians used to sail to England to get tin to alloy with copper to make bronze.
The Tyr region is more or less mined out and the old mines or the population that used to work in them has been destroyed or cut off via desert or silt. No export market and the miners became nomads or died. The iron mines could have been on the other side of the silt sea or in the deadlands or in what is now lava gorge.
*waves and smiles*
ehm... Who's Jon?
Sorry, glanced at the avatar, not the name lol.
The argument seems to be a bit weak. You are making "magic" be a cop out for something that doesn't make sense.
No, I'm using the "Manual of the Planes" to describe a planar trait of the Athasian cosmos as defined in that supplement.
Otherwise, I can come up with some good "Occham's Razor" myself for the Astral Plane: "It's timeless. You don't heal or need to eat, but you can move around? What? Crazy!" Etc.
The coincidence smacks too much of "cheap cop-out" rather than something that really helps immerse me into the setting.
*shrugs* So? You can't suspend disbelief. "Natural and unexplainable (or as yet unexplained) property of the plane," works just fine for me (and I'm sure others) without setting off complex logic alarms.
Seriously, you can accept that a person can "think" the magical life energy out of plants and you're having trouble with an equally bizzare cosmological law. That's what makes no sense to me.
Heck, just make up an explanation! "With the disruption of the Elemental planes towards the paraelements, the cosmos is thrown into imbalance, and foreign metallic substances are altered significantly upon entry into this plane (the same imbalance caused the seas to become silt)."
"During the Cleansing Wars, the dwarves were importing vast quantities of metal from the plane of Elemental Earth for the demi-human war effort, so Borys cast an epic-level spell causing all non-local metals to elementally degrade, sending shockwaves through the plane of Earth."
Took me all of five minutes to think them up and type them up. But really, I don't need them. Doesn't matter why it happens, it just does. It's like gravity, or time, or magic -- it's a planar composition/law issue. Or about a half-dozen or more utterly weird properties of quantum-level energy/matter in our universe that can't be explained but just paradoxically are.
Naturally, once one understands why such a rule exists one can make an informed house ruling. Thus, if the DM feels it's absurd (I know I would) and doesn't think removing such a rule would cause problems, it would be a perfectly reasonable and rational decision to ignore it entirely. Since the players have seemingly made a one way trip, the chances of them starting an interplanar metal shop are pretty low.
I'd be willing to bet the reason for it is that the designers wanted to cut plane hopping characters from making a quick buck in the imported metal business, and to prevent such characters from making metal far more widely available on Athas.
Naturally, once one understands why such a rule exists one can make an informed house ruling. Thus, if the DM feels it's absurd (I know I would) and doesn't think removing such a rule would cause problems, it would be a perfectly reasonable and rational decision to ignore it entirely. Since the players have seemingly made a one way trip, the chances of them starting an interplanar metal shop are pretty low.
We have no clue how to get back to Eberron let alone anywhere else. Maybe eventually we'll be able to do so...but I agree that was why the rule was made.
Its a stupid rule anyway.
*shrugs* So? You can't suspend disbelief. "Natural and unexplainable (or as yet unexplained) property of the plane," works just fine for me (and I'm sure others) without setting off complex logic alarms.
Seriously, you can accept that a person can "think" the magical life energy out of plants and you're having trouble with an equally bizzare cosmological law. That's what makes no sense to me.
Heck, just make up an explanation! "With the disruption of the Elemental planes towards the paraelements, the cosmos is thrown into imbalance, and foreign metallic substances are altered significantly upon entry into this plane (the same imbalance caused the seas to become silt)."
"During the Cleansing Wars, the dwarves were importing vast quantities of metal from the plane of Elemental Earth for the demi-human war effort, so Borys cast an epic-level spell causing all non-local metals to elementally degrade, sending shockwaves through the plane of Earth."
Took me all of five minutes to think them up and type them up. But really, I don't need them. Doesn't matter why it happens, it just does. It's like gravity, or time, or magic -- it's a planar composition/law issue. Or about a half-dozen or more utterly weird properties of quantum-level energy/matter in our universe that can't be explained but just paradoxically are.
It isn't the notion that metal is altered that is the problem. It's that the metal is conveniently altered to become materials that people now use. It just is too convenient, too coincidental to be comepletely random chance. It's a shame that you, Greyorm, who regularly gets into lengthy discussions about how many aspects of Dark Sun just don't feel right, aren't working for you, or otherwise don't fit your personal worldview on Dark Sun would be so adamantly and strongly outspoken against me feeling the same way about this part.
And yes, *I* can't suspend disbelief. I have stated time and again in this thread that what I am stating is my personal take on it, not something written in stone everyone must follow. It is the rule I use for my own Dark Sun campaigns -- I do a lot of small modifications to the setting to fit my style, rather than just take everything "as written" as if the existing materials are somehow dictated by god. I've not put forward my personal belief on the subject as something everyone must agree with, on the contrary, I've stated that people might not agree with it. But, it does come down to it is how I run my Dark Sun campaigns. So, if I can't suspend disbelief over something in the setting, I will make a change to make it all make more sense for my campaigns.
The main thing is finding a clausable reason why if somebody came from one world say Krynn to Athas, then why would there Metal just be eroded or changed to match the type of Athas.
Now, I could sit back and see a dragon like Borys casting an epic level spell crumbles your weapon. However, since spells require life-force and there's no life-force in an already crafted weapon, then how could it just crumble. And besides as I said in my previous post, why would the god of earth even care about a couple of foreign metal weapons that arive on Athas, it can't be duplicated. I also don't truely believe that metals from another world don't exist on Athas, it could be possible that its just called something else, like Adamantine on Athas is called Dwarven Steel.
So here a different Scenario for you to feed on.
Two Warforged enter Athas by some magical misshap, one with the Adamantine body. Instead of saying they just rot and die becouse the planet doesn't want to accept the Metal his body is made of. To the locals that have any (now granted it will be a minute few) metal knowledge, might think or know that he's made of Dwarven Steel and thus must be crafted by dwarves. And the SK might have a problem with that especially races that are oppossed to the Dwarves. Plus it might bring up speculation like OMG he's made of Dwarven Steel!! He must know of a supply around haven't heard of any of that stuff for 3000 yrs.
I don't know about you guys that I think makes for a beter story line and roleplaying experience then jsut saying "Ok guys you appear in a desert and Warrior you look at yourself and OMG you start corroding and disintigrating and the magical properties that once held you together unravel and....your dead. Make a new character."
Or real boring, "You enter athas and your body changes to Obsidian, cool." My problem is what happends to his body when he gets back home? Does it stay Obsidian? Or would the Eberron world change it back to Adamantine?
Thats about 4 Ceramic Pieces worth BTW, besure to tip your waitress.
It isn't the notion that metal is altered that is the problem. It's that the metal is conveniently altered to become materials that people now use. It just is too convenient, too coincidental to be comepletely random chance. It's a shame that you, Greyorm, who regularly gets into lengthy discussions about how many aspects of Dark Sun just don't feel right, aren't working for you, or otherwise don't fit your personal worldview on Dark Sun would be so adamantly and strongly outspoken against me feeling the same way about this part.
Heh. I was wondering when someone would notice that. I'm playing Devil's Advocate here: the rule doesn't actually affect me as I don't play Athas as being "connected" to anywhere other than itself. For me, it is a separate cosmology, so outside metals and adventurers can't stumble into it, ever: they don't exist!
And yes, *I* can't suspend disbelief. I have stated time and again in this thread that what I am stating is my personal take on it, not something written in stone everyone must follow. It is the rule I use for my own Dark Sun campaigns -- I do a lot of small modifications to the setting to fit my style, rather than just take everything "as written" as if the existing materials are somehow dictated by god. I've not put forward my personal belief on the subject as something everyone must agree with, on the contrary, I've stated that people might not agree with it. But, it does come down to it is how I run my Dark Sun campaigns. So, if I can't suspend disbelief over something in the setting, I will make a change to make it all make more sense for my campaigns.
I understand that. My criticism probably came out harsher than intended. Sorry! I was trying to point out I think this issue is a matter of preference rather than logic, as it can be solved by choosing to suspend disbelief by creating a working explanation for the event: by being a rules/setting-apologist, in a manner of speaking.
(You'll note I did the same with the Sorcerer-King-worshiping dwarves from the Dragon-article that everyone else appeared to hate so much and argued were illogical and unusable.)
........................
Group consists of
Human Artificer* NPC
*Iron Defender
*Walking Chest
*Dedicated Right, currently in the Walking Chest
Warforged Fighter
Warforged Wizard
Raptilian Race Cloister Cleric/Sword Sage
Human Psionist
So the group arrives in the desert through a broken crystal shard that links worlds. Aside from the heat both warforged are handling it fine however the Artificer is suffering. Long grossom walk in the desert they encounter a sandstorm, a tri-kreen attack, and the first sign of a small oasis with water and its guarded by two huge giants. So the group moves on. they arrive at Guistenal, where the guards look over them as wow they must be here to see the SK but doesn't say that to the group.
City guards question where there from and what they are, Warforged Figher explains that they are from a far area and that they are a created race by this artificer walking with us, guard looks at artificer like OMG. So after a little conversation the guard lets them in and secretly sends word to the the SK's templars to handle the situation.
Well upon walking through the city the people keep there distance after all they look like there not normal and must be here under protection of the SK. So like all adventurers they look for the first tavern which happens to be the Dirty Lizard Inn, which I think is actually in a different city, but that's ok. So the group goes in to get a room from the bartender. The bartenders refuses them accomadations simply becouse people of there standards would be more comfortable in the palace, the group explains there not here to see the SK have no idea what the bartender is talking about and only wants a room. Well people in the bar start hearing this and start talking about robbing them of there metal and equipment. So a group of elves get up and talk to the Human artificer becouse he's obviously the leader, I mean the Warforged are his slaves/workers and the Reptilian is obviously his pet. An arguement breaks out between the warforged fighter and the elves becouse he's not a slave and is free willed, so the elves invite them outside. The elves leave while the party stays in. A group of gladiator muls that are slaves themselves that have won a little freedom for themselves gets up and leaves. The group decides that its best to go to the palace and findout what's going on and where they are.
Psion Human is new character to the group so he's just watching this all right now but he follows them where they go.
On the walk to the palace they go through a little more of the resident area and the Human Artificer who is waring a chain shirt and a metal mace gets grabed by the Muls and started to be stripped down, the group tries to help but the poor walking chest is left by himself on the street while the group is trying to help there comrad. So an elf runs by and nabs the chest and runs with it. Templars find out about the scurmish and break it up, send the muls back to the pens to be dealt with. They toss the reptilian player in the Pet Pens since that's what he must be and they take the Artificer and the two remaining Warforged with them.
They get to the palace, Warforged wizard acts like a construct that doesn't speak, two giants hall him away. So the captain questions the warforged "Do you belong to the artificer? or are you a free-willed person", warforged fighter says, "sure I belong to the artificer", captain says "Ok, shackle him and brand him the symbol of our SK you are now property of our SK and you will fight in the pits for him". Well warforged fighter gets mad and decides "SCREW THT!!!" Baam two hits with shocking battlefist and over 50+ damage on the captain, captain goes down hard, everybody else is like OMG, warforged fighter is like "Anybody else want some? All you gotta do is ask nicely if you want me to fight in the pits." SK witnessing all this is like WOW I have a real gem in my city. Warforged fighter is mad and wants to be treated like everybody else and explaines how he was created by this guy; points at the artificer who is the groups crafter. So the templars are like wow really, nice come with us so they take the Artificer away "More on this later".
So the warforged wizard gets locked up in the prison with a Half Giant at guard, he casts a spell and idiotizes the giant and giant forgets what he's standing there and supose to do. Wizard reserve feats a fire elemental and get out of the cage and casts alter self into an Iron Defender for the running speed and invisability, being first time casting in this realm he defiles not knowing what he's doing. Starts running through the palace Reserve feating Fire Elementals everywhere and burning anything he can find then an unknown force to him dispells his invisibility and he runs out as fast as possibe, comes across the Reptile man, frees him and runs straight for the gates.
In the palace, warforged fighter meets with SK who gives him a choice to either do a mission for him, or his friends will die. he agrees, not like he had much of a choice anyways, so they escort him out of the city with instruction on what to do. Well the two warforged and the Reptile man meet up in the desert and the Psion guy is toss out there to help under suspicion of consulting with them becouse of his interested in following them everywhere.
So so far the group has to travel south past the Pristine Tower to retrieve this blade made of a strange material so they travel along the Silt Sea at night which was advised to them not to but hey there new, so they do it anyways. So during the night they avoid a couple of nasty looking 30ft tall giants, and almost get eaten by some Silt Horors, but in the end they learn not to travel along the Silt Sea at night. Oh also they encounter a Silt Storm.
So the group is traveling south force marching as much as possible in the lovely sun. While the Artificer is enjoying his summer vacation in a 7x7 room strung up by half giant hair rope, waiting for his next punishment becouse he refuses to be a crafting hore for the SK, so in return they throw his skinny butt in the gladiator pits with a half giant that was instructed by the SK not to kill him but only injury him badly. So he gets injured badly but with the help of infusions and a little Giant Bane he brings goliath down in a matter of a crueler way then his alignment.
So in the desert the group reaches there destination of a small moutain range, they climb and find the top of a tower that is incased by the mountain and the entrance is currently guarded by two Rock Golems. With a little cooperation the players subdue the golems through Psion abilities and sneak by.
To be continued....
After next session....
I've only played Dark Sun very little, but I love it.
I also like Eberon.
Here are some ideas.
Heat Damage.
When I was a kid I used to burn my name into wooden picnic tables using nothing but a magnifying glass. I could start fires with that thing.
I live in Canada. so it doesn't get too hot here.
I'm thinking the metal on the Warforged could get so hot that it starts to burn them. leaving charred black/brown spots where the metal touches their wood parts.
But this would be from long periods in the sun. Perhaps 1 dmg per day.
Also these warforged wouldn't be able to give a hug or shake a hand without turning there friends into fried eggs.
Isn't wood and vegetation very rare on Dark Sun too? These guys are aliens.
I think one easy way to hide the metal is wear a hooded cloak. Very easy.
Another easy way is to PAINT over the metal parts.
Everyone wants the metal.
Lets go to a generic D&D setting.
You see a full plate armored knight ride in town on a horse.
But his armor is made of solid diamond!!!
Diamonds being the hardest material and very expensive.
What do you think most people say when they see this knight?
"Hey lets rob that guy!"
or would they say "A full diamond suit?! That guy must be powerful, Lets stay away from him, especially since his suit is so strong! He must be really strong to brave showing his armor around like that, And really powerful to even get a suit like that"
So I think these warforged would gain some intimidation factors, and draw allot of attention. Instant fame known as the "metal guy".
I would think that some tuff guys in the area wont like the idea of a new guy coming in town thinking they are the new tuff guy. So a show down might happen.
Just a role playing idea.
Metal is not food or water. So I cant imagine everyone jumping at it as if its the only means of survival.
Only the evil few highly skilled who have a use of it will try to rob the warforged. IMO.
Decomposing Metal
In Canada our cars rust very quickly. I always thought it was because of the snow. But in-fact its the salt we use on the roads to melt the snow. Salt gets stuck on our cars and rapidly eats away our cars.
You could call for a high dose of salt in the deserts of Dark Sun to help erode metal.
Im not a science wiz, but I think in order for metal to rust it has to sit around for long periods of time, untouched. If it constantly gets wiped (once a week or two) I think it will be fine. So with the Warforged moving naturally they wouldn't have to worry, but thats if they were in Canada.
I do like the idea of Dark Suns environment being harsh to metal. That would explain no metal.
However if Dark Suns environment rapidly decomposes metal, then metal is useless and has no value, because it will melt before you take it home. kinda like ice.IMO.
I never did find out why there is no metal on Dark Sun.
All I ever got for an answer is "its rare". Yeah, but why!?
The center of the planet has to be pressurized so much that metal is created deep deep down.
I'm sure these warforged wont be the only rare ones around with metal. That depends on the DM.
And who needs metal? they get by without it on Dark Sun.
They can do everything they need without metal.
And if owning metal means you have to fight to keep it because everyone will steal it from you, then I think no one will want to own it, or display it. Which means they cant use it.
What does it mean to own metal on Dark Sun?
However if Dark Suns environment rapidly decomposes metal, then metal is useless and has no value, because it will melt before you take it home. kinda like ice.IMO.
Who said anything about "rapid" -- it could take years to destroy the metal. If, let's say, the rate of loss is it takes 10 years for half of the metal in a broadsword to, as you put it, "decompose", the metal still deteriorates, but it definitely doesn't need to be overnight. Metal would have value still, and protecting it (keeping it out of the elements that could erode the metal), could keep the metal sustained for longer periods of time, like the store of metal armor that Kled has. Metal wouldn't be used much in combat, because it would literally be a waste of such a precious and valuable resource. Don't forget, diamonds are also not food or drink, but people clamor for them constantly on this world. Metal would be extremely valuable, but need to be stored away, possibly underground, out of the direct sun and open air. Salt definitely could be a catalyst to cause the corrosion (alliteration is fun!).
I never did find out why there is no metal on Dark Sun. All I ever got for an answer is "its rare". Yeah, but why!?
IIRC, the setting canon states the metal was "used up" or "mined out" during the Cleansing Wars. Fan speculation has included the idea that metal was never very common on Athas to begin with.
The center of the planet has to be pressurized so much that metal is created deep deep down.
This assumes Athas is a giant spherical body of rock and dirt floating in a vaccum-filled void in a universe with physical laws exactly similar to our own (also, tangential to my point here, but that's not actually how metal "forms"). Athas is a fantasy world, so anything may or may not be true about it: central core, pressure depths, being a planet and so forth.
I think the SK would use his telepathic abilities (or those of a servant) to extract all the information out of the artificer that he can about were he came form and how his powers work etc.
That is part of the plan, but remember he would still have to find somebody compentent enough to learn infusions and all the crafting skills that an artificer has learned. In reality this kind of process is good if your trying to extract information from a spy, or a traitor, extracting powers and knowledge of crafting would take a long time to manipulate.
So the group gets into top of this tower and finds hatch in the floor that leads down. Inside the tower is an a laboranth of stairs leading in all directions with parts of the stairs broken over time. While decending into this tower they find alcoves along the walls that lead to hallways, so the group takes the first one they see which leads to a long hallway lines with skeletons and floor is tiled. the Warforged wizard reserve feats an earth elemental to check it out, he finds a tile that's a presure plate but nothing happens when he steps on it, more on this later. So the group goes down the hallway zig zagging and finding 4 total pressure plates. At the end is a diamond shaped room with a female statue in the middle wearing a gemmed mask. The group removes the mask and 2 rounds later attacked by 4 large size shadows. During the battle 2 members die, Warforged Fighter, and Reptile mix class guy. Two members atleast survive, Psion and Wizard, other two players make new characters to be later joined in, one player mad that his character died, well it happens unfortunatly.
So the group continues there decent in the tower, and finds another alcove that has a well in it and a contraption made of bone that lowers a bone cage. So the wizard gets lowered down and at the bottom is a 20x20 room with nothing in it accept some foot prints. On a hunch the wizard puts on the mask he found and sees a male spector like looking aperation infront of him traped down here with a symbol of the astral planes burned into his chest. he communicates with the wizard and explaines that he's the gate keeper to the astral plane. The wizard asks about the sword there looking for. I can't go into full detail about the sword become its a huge impact, on the campaign and the world of Dark Sun. They do find the name called "Scorcher", so those that know history, Shhhh becouse some of my players come on this board. Anyways the wizard finds out that the sword is stuck in a void that's locked down by four planes of power, Shadow, Gray, Astral and Negative.
The Spector leads them through the tower to a room with a pedastel in the middle and floating above it is the sword which is currently transparent. So they find a gate and the Spector opens up the gate to the astral, well standing in the Cube are two frozen in time bodies a Human and a Half Giant, AKA the two players that died earlier. The group enters the gate and find themselves in the astral plane. They find the two new characters and it turns out that there silver cordes have been severd by gith and they can't get back to there bodies, so the group helps them retrieve there silver cordes and a little trust start to build with the new characters. So there in the Astral planes, well something different here since there not physically here and no physical bodies travel this way they have to rely on mental for str. Or another way of putting it, your Intellegence is now your Strenght score and your Wisdom is now your Dexterity. So after finding out about this the new half giant warriar with a 8 int and 8 wis is a little upset, but hey, I didn't force those scores on him, I just wrote the adventure. Also material components are not existant in astral form, so on verbal and Symatic spell casting is allowed unless you have the Eschew Material Components Feat, which nobody has, but the wizard doesn't complain, he just goes with the flow.
So after floating around in the strange astral and seeing dead bodies everywhere and land masses maded up of dead bodies they find a fortress filled with Gith. They sneak in battle a gith, find a small weapons room and grab some Silver Weapons, 5% chance on hit to vorpal living, however 5% chance on hit to sever silver cordes as well. They find a map of the area where a small land mass is that hosts the Stone of Void that they need. the Gith are currenlty using it as a power conduit to a different plane since its off opposite of Astral. So the party battles the gith there, no
silver cords cut and nothing was beheaded, I was a little disapointed but there will be another day i'm sure. They retrieve the stone, make haste back to the point of origin which in a plane has no North or South or Up or Down should have been a difficult memory role but It was going on 1 AM and I was getting tired. So they get back with the stone and we called it a night.
So the group now consists of
Human Artificer (Nobody knows if this guy is alive or not)
Warforged Wizard (Survivor)
Human Psion (Survivor)
Human Psion (New character, thinking about changing his character to Undead now)
Half-Giant Fighter (New character)
Shaper Cleric, (player that can only make a session every other week or so)
In my group character deaths are harsh, your next character starts 2 levels lower then the average level in the group, and you get No Magical Equipment. Reason being is there's no shame in running away from a battle two great for you. Time to do magical equipment takes to long. Character starting money chart i think is retarted, sometimes you adventure and you find stuff that you don't benefit from at all. Finally if your dieing every session then your really doing something wrong with your character. Sometimes players throw the, well my character is to low for those monsters, right, but there are other group members that are above the monster so there's no shame at all in hidding behind the fighter, buff him, heal him, support other players, you don't have to charge the monster that's 3 HD higher then you and there should be no reason why you should put your wizard in upfront melee combat with the evil knight.
Interesting topic.
Heat Damage.
I'm thinking the metal on the Warforged could get so hot that it starts to burn them. leaving charred black/brown spots where the metal touches their wood parts.
But this would be from long periods in the sun. Perhaps 1 dmg per day.
Heat isn't really the issue to much, hotest day is around 140, so that's hot but were not talking damage that's going to burn Metal or Wood.
Isn't wood and vegetation very rare on Dark Sun too? These guys are aliens.
Its not as plush as other worlds but there is vegetation in the world, you just need to get to it. Largest portion is over a mountain range that nobody has ever survived climbing and even if you would make it over the mountain range then you have deal with the Cannibalistic Halfling Tribes that are there.
Everyone wants the metal?. "Hey lets rob that guy!"? So I think these warforged would gain some intimidation factors?,
Unless beknown to them that the party is aliens from another world, I would think people would be intimidated by a group of nasty looking people brave enough to wear armor in public especially in the city of a SK. Atleast most people would think that.
Decomposing Metal
I don't agree with metal changing to the type of the world or Metal decomposing. If we took reality that extreme in a fantasy world then characters should be sharpening there weapons every night, polishing there armor on a regular bases, taking a morning BM by saying there going to have a BM guard my back while I squat infront of this tree. What DM really imposes those rules. It just a time constrant. i feel as long as there not abusing anything and are just travelers stuck here from another realm then let the metal exist, besides it makes for good hook lines.
Is metal the strongest material in Athas?
xlorepdarkhelm
I like your idea of rapidly decomposing metal. One day I would like to run this idea in a Dark Sun setting.
But I have some logical erands to sort out.
I m not sure metal would be so valuable if it decomposed easily. It seems that it becomes more like a collectors item (because it needs to be contained)
kinda like a comic book.
If I lived on Athas (in real life) I wouldnt invest in metal as a long term business decision , because it has a chance of "decomposing".
Which means I can lose money, unless majority of the metal on Athas has luckily eroded, then my piece of metal becomes more valuable. Supply and demand.
But it seems like perishable goods. Sell it fast before it expires.
I would have to be a fan to invest in metal and do it for the pupose of collecting as a hobby, and hoping to make a profit.
I would buy diamonds. They retain their market value, dont erode, and if you buy a large enough rock it can actually go up in price over time.
Ofcourse land is still the best and safest investment and can generate a profit.
I dont see (yet) how fast eroding metal would be expensive on the market.
But then again cars depreciate at redicolous levels and they are very over priced.
I could be totally wrong in my logic.
Gold is not very useful. Its too soft and heavy. However it is the best electricity conductor. But ofcourse we dont use it for that because of its value.
Thats how I see it now, until you cast some ideas and light on this noggin.
xlorepdarkhelm
I like your idea of rapidly decomposing metal. One day I would like to run this idea in a Dark Sun setting.
But I have some logical erands to sort out.
I m not sure metal would be so valuable if it decomposed easily. It seems that it becomes more like a collectors item (because it needs to be contained)
kinda like a comic book.
If I lived on Athas (in real life) I wouldnt invest in metal as a long term business decision , because it has a chance of "decomposing".
Which means I can lose money, unless majority of the metal on Athas has luckily eroded, then my piece of metal becomes more valuable. Supply and demand.
But it seems like perishable goods. Sell it fast before it expires.
I would have to be a fan to invest in metal and do it for the pupose of collecting as a hobby, and hoping to make a profit.
I would buy diamonds. They retain their market value, dont erode, and if you buy a large enough rock it can actually go up in price over time.
Ofcourse land is still the best and safest investment and can generate a profit.
I dont see (yet) how fast eroding metal would be expensive on the market.
But then again cars depreciate at redicolous levels and they are very over priced.
I could be totally wrong in my logic.
Gold is not very useful. Its too soft and heavy. However it is the best electricity conductor. But ofcourse we dont use it for that because of its value.
Thats how I see it now, until you cast some ideas and light on this noggin.
I see metal *as* a collector's item. People hoard the metal, they don't run around using it. Weapons, armor, etc made of metal are notoriously sought and prized, but are not really used as such, because of the degradation (in my campaigns). Even in the novels and fluff/flavor material for Dark Sun, a metal dagger is almost never used as a weapon, and almost always hidden away and protected.
Gold and Silver are still sought after as currency -- mainly as a hold-over from the Green Age. But, they are short in supply, and people don't often trade in them at all. Ceramic is far safer to trade in.
See, it isn't so much the actual usefulness of the metal which is at stake here, I'd think that metal's value may be high due to limited quantities (supply vs demand) -- the demand being still in effect because of the upper class nobility, and potentially the Sorcerer-Kings causing the demand (if the SKs are all collecting metal and hoarding it, there must be *some* reason, right? At least, the average person would think so). Dwarves would hoard it because of their historical desire to do so. Basically, metal is prized because there are influential people who prize it.
Metal isn’t strictly necessary for any Athasian
culture to survive, but it’s a great benefit to those
that have it. Hunters know that metal arrowheads
and spearheads are sharper and more enduring
than those made of stone or bone. With metal
shoes, herders can protect the feet of their mounts
from the rigors of the desert wastes. City dwellers
use metal to fashion tools that make backbreaking
farm work easier and more efficient.
And
In Tyr, one maltreated
but better-equipped slave accomplishes twice what his well-fed counterparts do in cities like Urik
and Balic. The only reason for this is that his tools
are better. Mills and workshops that are able to
glean a handful of metal tools almost always have an
edge on their competitors.
There are even rumors that mounds of steel, silver,
and gold lie hidden in the deepest tunnels of
certain forlorn cities. I have never seen such a thing
myself, but if such treasures exist, they will reward
those who find them most handsomely. Those who
control such stores of metal can buy food, power,
influence, and sometimes even the sorcerer-king's
protection.
In war, the advantages of metal are also plain.
Tyr's army has never numbered more than ten
thousand, but its elite units are composed of highly
trained men, each of whom carries a steel sword and
an iron-tipped javelin. Often it has destroyed an army
five times its size that was armed with bone battle
axes or even obsidian-edged sabers
Im stealing these ideas.Another example of why it doesn't corrode at an unnaturally rapid pace - If it did, Tyr could never keep its fighting force armed with iron, and still export iron as a (albeit rare) commodity.
Before Ur Draxa's destruction, metal was more common there than on the rest of Athas. Much of it must have dated back to the cleansing wars.
Well treated metal will last nearly forever. Nothing in canon Dark Sun material contests this.
If metal corroded at a more-than-normal pace on Athas, the dwarves of Kled wouldn't be sitting on top of enough steel Plate Mail and axes to arm and armor an entire fighting force. It would have long since wasted away, since it has been sitting around since the Green Age, and there was nothing in the Prism Pentad to indicate that these items were enchanted to prevent such an occurrence.
Except it is contained and sealed in a vault underground, and out of the elements.
My argument still stands -- metal, out in the open elements, I believe, still corrodes/decays at an accelerated rate, while metal that would be, like I've said before, protected from the elements, can survive longer. Metal exists, sure... but the Athasian environment wrecks havoc on it, at least for my campaigns.
Will people use metal? Sure -- it has many fine qualities that makes it still viable for use, it just needs to be somewhat protected by the people who are using it, and not just left around, it also will need to be protected a bit more rigorously on Athas than other worlds as metal will decay if not shielded from the open Athasian environment.
None of what was quoted so far has "flown in the face" of my explanation. I may not have been clear to begin with, but I am attempting to clarify it a bit.