Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cnahumck Jun 08, 2007 11:41:31	So, we all know how the Cleansing Wars ended, and we have had discussions about this on the boards before, but I thought I would drag this topic out of the basement and give it new life. So with that said… How did the races fight against the Champions. What tactics did they use, what strengths did they have, etc…
#2 flindbar Jun 08, 2007 16:05:13	Another thought for the pot ...... When the SKs were charged with the eradication of a race, was this world wide ? It is possible that certain SKs believed they had suceeded when in reality some of that race may have sequestered themselves away in hidden places in the farthest reaches away from the Tablelands and surrounding areas. Might not these races re-emerge at some future point in the Athasian timeline ? Its all pure conjecture, but hey :D
#3 brun01 Jun 08, 2007 17:09:55	You mean, besides the gnolls? :P
#4 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jun 08, 2007 17:49:54	Another thought for the pot ...... When the SKs were charged with the eradication of a race, was this world wide ? It is possible that certain SKs believed they had suceeded when in reality some of that race may have sequestered themselves away in hidden places in the farthest reaches away from the Tablelands and surrounding areas. Might not these races re-emerge at some future point in the Athasian timeline ? Its all pure conjecture, but hey :D I tend to believe that the Pristine Tower races never were truly "global" -- or at least the vast majority of them. They may have spread throughout the main continent, but they didn't become globally widespread. I like to believe there are radically different races elsewhere on Athas. Sure, insectoids like the Kreen would be found, but I'm thinking maybe lifeshaped races that gained sentience, and some Rhulisti "nations" are also scattered elsewhere.
#5 Zardnaar Jun 09, 2007 7:04:25	To me it would have varied by race. Dwarves would have resisted through sheer military power. Dwarven Champions must have been strong enough to hold off Borys when needed as they were still fighting at the end Giant. Would have been tough for Dregoth. The remnants of the Giants probably made their final stand on heavily fortified island in the Sunrise Sea but the war ended and they were cut off when the sea became salt. Elves. Elven realms were probably similar to other normal D&D worlds and would have been well armed magically. It is known Kurn was an elven city. Towards the end I suspect they would have scattered into small bands and run and started adapting towards the modern elf although elven magi mght have had a hand in that to ensure they survived, Trolls sheer brute power and until Hamanu turned up they weren't under threat of extinction. Goblins. Sneaky hit and run lead by elite hobgoblin units. Orcs. The horde- easily defeated. Kobolds. Tunnels and fortified caves- kinda like Okinawa in WW2 but throughout the ringing mountains.
#6 ruhl-than_sage Jun 10, 2007 14:26:04	Gnomes: poorly :evillaugh
#7 Jaysyn Jun 12, 2007 15:10:19	Didn't one of the Champions wipe out the pixies or dryads simply by killing all of the trees they lived in / were linked to?
#8 ruhl-than_sage Jun 12, 2007 17:52:28	That was one of the Floating heads that Kalak kept. Either Sacha or Wyan.
#9 dirk00001 Jun 13, 2007 16:57:11	Part of this comes down to how the war was actually fought, chronologically- and politically-speaking, IMO. The first races to go (for the most part) were the evil goblinoid races, which I don't at all think was a coincidence. My take on the subject is that when the CW first began, it was with the Champions raising armies - possibly even mixed ones (not purely human) - to kill the "degenerate races" that most everyone could agree were better off gone, such as the kobolds and the goblins. After a generation or two of war with the goblinoid races, it'd have been much easier to convince the younger generation - those who only knew of a time where non-humans (goblinoids perhaps, but still...non-humans) that other races were also bad. Start off slow like that, beginning with the least human of the races, and eventually you've got a good portion of humanity convinced that genocide is the "only solution" to a problem that never really existed. Think of it as an "extended implementation" of Nazi Germany's actions prior to and during WWII.
#10 Razor767 Jun 14, 2007 1:38:06	This site has the races that were supposedly wiped out in the cleansing wars all statted out. http://www.geocities.com/lastard/races.htm Along with "some" explanations on how/why they still exist.
#11 brun01 Jun 14, 2007 13:11:36	I keep mistaking razor767 with Jon... hehehe... damn avatars :D
#12 Razor767 Jun 14, 2007 15:04:14	me too!
#13 zombiegleemax Jun 24, 2007 13:48:51	Well twas Wyan who killed all the pixies. When attacked in his mind it was as if he had none. His description of it was being at peace for his life's duty was done. Alexis *smiles*
#14 jon_oracle_of_athas Jun 25, 2007 13:06:38	Thanks for choosing another Avatar, Razor767. It should save the community of some confusion. :P
#15 Razor767 Jun 25, 2007 14:13:09	It will fortunately save me some confusion too. *manifests true mind switch on Jon*
#16 lumpkin Jun 27, 2007 5:51:23	I like to imagine that the new races were nearly worldwide and that the Cleansing Wars were incredibly epic and varied. Each champion fought his/her campaign alone for the most part, so it would be a long time before any of the defendants realized that many of the wars that were raging across the world were linked. I imagine that the champions began by fermenting dissension and feeding on pre-existing conflicts. They were immortal so they had plenty of time. So for example, I have a backstory in my head about Sielba and her campaign against the Pterrans whereby the main Pterran kingdom neighbours a powerful human kingdom. Sielba begins her campaign by spending several years ensuring she has well-placed agents amongst both the humans and the pterrans. She enlists disreputable pterrans to launch various minor outrages against humans, cumulating with the assassination of the the human king, all the while stirring up rumours of pterran-perpetuated atrocities and secret practices. She then kidnaps the king's daughter and heir to the throne, and uses her magic to take her form, becoming the charismatic young leader of a powerful kingdom screaming out to dedicate itself to a genocidal campaign against pterrans. Oronis I imagine beginning with a small band of adventurers pledged to breaking lizerman strongholds, especially where they kept humans in oppression. By his charisma and determination, many separate bands and movements spring up after contact with Oronis, dedicating to similarly dedicated to relieving the world of lizardmen. Abalach-Re, I imagined as beginning by leading up an orc horde to attack other orc tribes and humans alike in a long campaign of bloody raids. After spending several decades ensuring the orcs were all warring amongst each other and every other race in the region utterly hated orcs, she ditched them and took on the guise of a powerful sage determined to help the anti-orc crusaders avenge the orcs' many victims. With her inside knowledge of the orcs and their cluelessness after being deprived of her leadership, the orcs would have been easily crushed. I see the great multi-racial cities of the Tyr Region as the most powerful and advanced place on Green Age Athas, so I think the champions may have co-operated here to neutralize the region. I think they would have begun by infiltrating the cities and doing their best to sow discord amongst the various races as well as creating a movement which believed that humans could not live alongside non-humans and urged their eviction from the cities. I see the champions as being incredibly wasteful and destructive in their campaigns, since Rajaat would have told them that with the return of the Blue Age the land would be created anew and that their would be no place for Green Age ways (this would explain why virtually no Green Age 'technology' survived into the Brown Age). So I think if they could a win a war by poisoning a river or burning an entire a forest, they would happily have done so. They may also have been told to dismantle all the old human kingdoms and nations as well, since the restored Blue Age would require new human societies also. I reckon the champions had some foolproof way of knowing whether their target race was fully exterminated or not (although not powerful enough to penetrate the magic of the Last Sea). I don't think Rajaat would leave this to chance. So I see the first few centuries of the Cleansing Wars as a series of apparently disconnected wars and inner conflicts raging across the world and undermining the old societies. At some point I imagine a few great heroes emerging which slowly managed to discover the links between the wars and discover something of its overall aim. By uncovering the champion's agents and forming alliances with other non-human and multi-racial states, I think many cities and kingdoms were able to resist for centuries, even turning the tide and slaying some of the champions (only to see them replaced by Rajaat or resurrect and return in a new unanticpated guise). In the end though, all the permanent multi-racial/non-human strongholds were crushed and all that was left was roving bands in hideouts. I think it would have taken centuries to hunt down these remnants, with many of them hiding out in the underdark and setting out across the ocean and suchlike. As a result the champions would have resorted to even more drastic measures such as scorching the land to ensure no-one could survive there, blotting out the sun with magical dust and razing whole human cities if anyone was suspected of harboring non-humans.