In the revised boxed set it was hinted that the Oba of Gulg may relax the rules regarding Presevers and the survinving Sorceror Kings at the conclusion of the Prism Pentad seemed to be thinking of a new way.
I'm thinking the Sorceror Kings would probably quietly start purging their Defiler ranks. Harsh punishments for the slightest transgressions while very few if any new ones would be recruited. Rather than kill preservers discovered start recruiting them. Other worlds have plenty of evil bwa ha ha wizards but on Dark Sun they all seem to be defilers.
Why not have a cabal of evil preservers dedicated to a Sorceor King? New Preservrs discovered are discreetly observed and ignored if they leave a city but are often used by the Sorceror Kings and if they become to inconvenient they can be gotten rid of.
Essentially in a post penatad Athas should a Preservers life be slightly easier if caught by agents of a Sorceror King?
Putting that aside however, I would say that I could see the Oba and possibly Hammanu treating preservers with less hostility and striking bargins with them. I don't think that either Daskinor or Nibenay would be likely to change their behaviour on the mater. However there is a chance that preservers could gain a degree of open acceptance in Balic now that Andropinus is gone. If I recall correctly house Wavir is very preserver friendly.
I just created a couple of new feats as temptations for potential magic users.
Remote Life Leech and Improved Remote Life Leech.
These two feats allow a defilers to tap into the life force of a sentient creature to fuel spells in a kind of vampiric way.
Similar to the distance raze feats but without overly affecting plant and soil.
Hence - very evil defilers stay as the bad guys.
To be honest post PP alot of new things are possible in the chaos. Having seen comrades fall and given their acceptance of the Free City of Tyr after PP. Who can say what the Sorcerer Kings will do to both maintain and strengthen their regime. I agree with Ruhl-Than on his guess about who would change their ways. The Oba I see fast accepting Preservers into her ranks. She already cherishes nature. Hammanu though I see him too utilizing Preservers I have no misgivings about his stance on defilement and believe that he would use them to strengthen his position against Tyr for a later war. By placing Preserver spies in Tyr and using them, he gains a powerful tool inside Tyr's ranks. Hammanu said to Rikus that his slaves needed to remember who were chattel. so I don't see him loosening his noose on his city.
In fact if the city grows ever resltess. As I said I see war.
Alexis
If there was to be any hope for survival, the SKs would need a huge and powerful army under their control, and Defiling on an army-sized scale would finish destroying the Tablelands. So they would have no choice but to accept Preservers into their ranks, on a very large scale. And teach them as much about magic as possible. Not only that, but instruction in the Way would have to become more readily available.
The impression I got from the end of the PP is that the SKs most assuredly were going to change a lot of their ways on the preserver issue. Even if only out of self-preservation and greed for power, I think Lalali-Puy at the least would probably seek out the Avangion transformation, allowing her to make even more efficient use of her vast realms of forest and greenery. She would have the most to gain by training all her loyal spellcasters as preservers, so she wouldn't lost a nine-foot radius circle of her forest every time somebody cast a Fireball in defense of her realm.
On the issue of the Rhulisti invasion specifically, the only form of defiling that would really present a benefit in the war effort would be Dragon Magic, to suck out the life-force from all of those horrible lifeshaped implements of warfare those guys will bring with them. If the Rhulisti behave anything like the Vong(Which really are the same idea, transplanted by Troy Denning into the Star Wars realm because the idea was too freakin awesome to sit on the shelf due to the cancellation of Dark Sun), then the Rhulisti would start re-greening the planet immediately during their war effort, so it would be a huge waste to defile all those nice new healthy plants while getting rid of the nightmarish invaders. All the SKs would have a lot to gain by fielding a force of Preservers instead of Defilers to take on the invasion.
And thought the Sorceror Kings don't know about the huge threats on their way, they are still evil and warlike enough to gather huge forces of preservers for war against each other. I think that right around the time they began to strike at each other, they would catch wind of the Three Invasions and at least temporarily band together for defense. But endemic warfare is the most probable plot device to grant them any chance of being remotely prepared for the Rhul-Vong, Deadlands, and Kreen each taking their crack at genocide. And these are just the threats from this continent alone. (The Rhul-Vong kinda count as from this continent, they just left and came back.). Without large preserver forces to back up the Mindbenders and armies, the cities have no chance of survival without completely destroying their lands.
If I was a Sorceror King it makes no sense to surround yourself with Defilers. You more or less need enough Trees of Life to negate their defiling magic.
In the revised boxed set it was hinted that the Oba of Gulg may relax the rules regarding Presevers and the survinving Sorceror Kings at the conclusion of the Prism Pentad seemed to be thinking of a new way.
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I did not get that hint about Lalali-puy relaxing rules for preservers from the revised boxed set. Maybe I need to reread it. Anything specific?
I'm thinking the Sorceror Kings would probably quietly start purging their Defiler ranks. Harsh punishments for the slightest transgressions while very few if any new ones would be recruited. Rather than kill preservers discovered start recruiting them. Other worlds have plenty of evil bwa ha ha wizards but on Dark Sun they all seem to be defilers.
Why not have a cabal of evil preservers dedicated to a Sorceor King? New Preservrs discovered are discreetly observed and ignored if they leave a city but are often used by the Sorceror Kings and if they become to inconvenient they can be gotten rid of.
Essentially in a post penatad Athas should a Preservers life be slightly easier if caught by agents of a Sorceror King?
Why would he recruit his enemies? Most preservers are going to be in the Veiled Alliance, since it is the only organized group of preservers and thus the most likely place a person would learn how to become a preserver. There may be some exceptions; of preservers not in the VA, but how would the sorcerer-king know if they were or were not. He would be taking a chance that he was bringing in spies for his enemies into his service on purpose.
This is not to say that there would not be evil preservers out there. But more, why would a sorcerer-king trust them? The sorcerer-kings trust their defilers, because they have trained them from the start and controlled their learning, and/or advancement.
Maybe they could try to train some apprentice preservers, but could a defiler train someone as a preserver? I would not think so. Like a fighter training a ranger.
In the PP defiling seems to be a choice everytime. You can gather more power and gather it faster by defiling, but you don't have to defile everytime you cast a spell if you are a defiler. If this were the case in the rules system I think the setting would be a lot more believeable, and this question of recruiting preserves would be mostly moot.
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From my reading of the PP, I had the opinion that it was the choice - not to defile each time that was made by preservers. Every defiler always defiled. It was only Sadira who would choose to defile sometimes and not to on other occassions, thought Ktandeo seemed to suggest that all preservers had to make such a choice each time.
In any case, it is difficult to discuss ideas from a novel when they do not fall into the rules of the gaming system, anyway.
I am tinkering with a rules idea for this very concept though it is tough going all things considered. In the end I hope for the feel of a choice. And like any choice that can be abused the abuse can bring an addiction of abuse.
Defilers could preserve, they are just addicted to the rush of fast power.
Alexis
That's why we have a great collective of avid fans.
I am tinkering with a rules idea for this very concept though it is tough going all things considered. In the end I hope for the feel of a choice. And like any choice that can be abused the abuse can bring an addiction of abuse.
Defilers could preserve, they are just addicted to the rush of fast power.
Alexis
I have no idea how far back the board archives go, but I ran through about four systems of trying to do this with the core DS3 wizard, back in 2001 or so. Never quite managed to land on anything that was suitably balanced, or didn't bog down play unreasonably.
Personally, I'm very much of the view that defiling is a choice that arcane casters should face each and every time they cast a spell. Defilers, in my games, can preserve. It's just not as effective as defiling.
Within the constraints of "house rule" (which suffers less from the need to keep core balance), I think it's worth looking at a skill based system -- make this spellcraft roll, modified by present terrain, or the spell flubs. Defiler feats let you do extra special things with extra energy gathered, perhaps. Maybe you import something like the augmentation system from psionics, where adding those extra damage dice to a fireball require extra energy. (so, as a 10th level wizard, casting that 10d6 fireball requires the same amount of energy as a 5th level spell, rather than as a 3rd level spell...)
Problems being that you'd need to increase spellcraft rolls non-linearly (to keep them challenging; at higher levels, you get access to rings and skill bonuses that can really ramp you up...), and that Wizards are balanced with the explicit expectation that they actually get all their spells per day...
I have no idea how far back the board archives go, but I ran through about four systems of trying to do this with the core DS3 wizard, back in 2001 or so. Never quite managed to land on anything that was suitably balanced, or didn't bog down play unreasonably.
Personally, I'm very much of the view that defiling is a choice that arcane casters should face each and every time they cast a spell. Defilers, in my games, can preserve. It's just not as effective as defiling.
Within the constraints of "house rule" (which suffers less from the need to keep core balance), I think it's worth looking at a skill based system -- make this spellcraft roll, modified by present terrain, or the spell flubs. Defiler feats let you do extra special things with extra energy gathered, perhaps. Maybe you import something like the augmentation system from psionics, where adding those extra damage dice to a fireball require extra energy. (so, as a 10th level wizard, casting that 10d6 fireball requires the same amount of energy as a 5th level spell, rather than as a 3rd level spell...)
Problems being that you'd need to increase spellcraft rolls non-linearly (to keep them challenging; at higher levels, you get access to rings and skill bonuses that can really ramp you up...), and that Wizards are balanced with the explicit expectation that they actually get all their spells per day...
I've been trying to develop a similar system for my home-brew d20 Modern Shannara setting. Right now, I'm working with a Will Save instead of skill check. I haven't fleshed out all the details yet, but once I get some mroe work done on it, I'll post it up on the boards (probably the d20 Fantasy forum)
I know that might have just been some "flavor" text added but it certainly adds to the tempting allure of defiling to preservers and explains why once one defiles, they mostly never go back to preserving.
Well... I've never heard of a defiler going back at any rate.
God, it's been so long since I read it, but maybe one of you remember where it was published. Isn't one of the drawbacks of defiling is that the comensurate rush of power is very addictive? Nearly a... erm... *coughs*... sensual... experience?
I know that might have just been some "flavor" text added but it certainly adds to the tempting allure of defiling to preservers and explains why once one defiles, they mostly never go back to preserving.
Well... I've never heard of a defiler going back at any rate.
Oronis, the "Reformed" Dragon King.
Preservers and Defilers of Athas does discuss the process of turning from a Preserver into a Defiler or a Defiler into a Preserver.
It's Rare but it does happen
It also mentions that not all who Defile are "Evil"...It's just that it was the only method they were though....or more commonly they stumbled on their ability to suck the life out of things then alter the energy rush into spells.