I'd be against your character having a different kind of magic. The way magic works on Athas is intrinsic to the setting. I'm all for adding to campaign worlds, but not if it subtracts from the flavor or uniqueness of it.
Okay so what does that mean exactly? I have no clue at all how Dark Sun magic works in 3.5. In 2nd edition it was merely the difference in experience required to level up.
Preservers leveled as normal wizard and defilers leveled faster. That was it.
So in 3.5 am I going to have.... .
Now if your new to the world you'll draw your power from the land but don't know it which will be dangerous to the caster.
I say you'd be a defiler by default (if able to cast spells at all before proper training), you'll need to learn how to energize your spells without destroying your energy source during the process, which could prove fatal because your character would not know magic is forbidden and feared by the general populace.
I hope this isn't the case looking at the rules. Trying to find a preserver trainer is going to be near impossible. Which means without any choice I will be a pure defiler. Seems a bit on the harsh side.
I'm hoping I have the choice to defile or preserve.
I'm hoping I have the choice to defile or preserve.
Technically, you do have the choice... but you have to know that there is a choice! Chances are your character wouldn't know the difference if he's never seen other spellcasters in the Dark Sun world before.
Technically, you do have the choice... but you have to know that there is a choice! Chances are your character wouldn't know the difference if he's never seen other spellcasters in the Dark Sun world before.
So couldn't I preserve by default instead of defile? Why would I have to autmatically be a defiler then? Who knows if my style of casting leans one way or the other.
At the minimum, I shouldn't suffer the penalities (meaning becoming tainted) until I understand the difference. That just seems pretty harsh for someone new to the world.
So couldn't I preserve by default instead of defile? Why would I have to autmatically be a defiler then? Who knows if my style of casting leans one way or the other.
At the minimum, I shouldn't suffer the penalities (meaning becoming tainted) until I understand the difference. That just seems pretty harsh for someone new to the world.
According to DS canon, defiling is the default, so without knowing any better you would defile at first. Think of it this way: You start gathering energy to cast a spell, and the energy comes in such a rush that before you realize what you've done there's a big circle of dead ground. Through practice you could learn to control your urges, and with assistance from a preserver it would go faster. But without practice, you defile.
If your character is disgusted by what defiling does, then he should stop until he learns to control himself. But honestly, if you come from a lush world and you don't know that Athas is all desert, why should you care about a little patch of ash. And even if you do know about Athas, why would you care? You're trying to leave and get home aren't you? What does it matter if you have to destroy a few plants to get home.
As for taint, if you defile you suffer taint and its penalties. It's not something you have control over, it's the nature of magic. Plus, Athas *is* a harsh world. Anyone who says differently is selling something.
If it's that you're character would be horrified to discover that "life-force" was consumed to fuel his arcane methods, then that's just another roleplay opportunity for you to explore.
As stated, defiling is the default in the game world. The only way to preserve is to consciously know that defiling exists and therefore to learn a means of avoiding it. If your character knows nothing of it, he can't logically seek out training as a preserver.
If it were my game to DM, personally... I'd set up a scene for your character to witness a defiler in action, his likely flight from the area and the ensuing pursuit by authorities/a mob. You would then get skill checks to see if you'd noticed anything untoward about the casting itself or any of the other following incidents.
Your DM may not want to afford such generosity though. And that's between you and him.
If your DMs kinds he may let you make knowledge arcana checks and he might describea mystical energy at your fingertips when you try and cast a spell normally. After a while you figure out how to ude plant energy.
Other worlds have sources to power magic and IIRC Eberrons comes from the left over energy from the creation of the world or something like that.
Also, the introduction of "regular" arcane magic would not necessarily ruin the flavor of the setting. I can see Preservers adopting the "normal" plane-tapping method of spellcasting, thus giving them an edge in areas where there is no plant life, but I don't think Defilers would be willing to give up the extra power granted by Defiling.However, the edge gained by the Preservers who adopt this method could actually help balance out the advantages that Defilers possess.
Exactly and don't preservers also gain stronger spells when in more lush areas of plant life? Looking at the dark sun (3.5) rules it doesn't say that only defilers suffer penalties or benefits from different terrain.
I do realize a defiler can extend casting time (defling another 5') to raise spell level and such, but it seemed like the terrain had and effect on both casters.
So tapping into another source of magic would have the draw back of not benefiting from terrains (like cities) that grant +1 level of caster.
On the flip side, it isn't like I'm going to go around teaching people how I preform magic. Considering it takes a human roughly 10 years or so to become a 1st level wizard. I don't see myself opening up magic classes and charging ceramic pieces. ;)
On a tangent:
According to DS canon, defiling is the default, so without knowing any better you would defile at first.
You know, I've never bought this. Canon history states that Rajaat taught wizards how to preserve first, and only taught his favored students the art of defiling. If defiling is the default, and you have to be taught how to preserve, how could Rajaat have kept defiling a secret art for so long? It would have been the basis for magic. (Keeping it secret would be like teaching people how to run without teaching them to stand!)
Canon history states that Rajaat taught wizards how to preserve first, and only taught his favored students the art of defiling. If defiling is the default, and you have to be taught how to preserve, how could Rajaat have kept defiling a secret art for so long? It would have been the basis for magic. (Keeping it secret would be like teaching people how to run without teaching them to stand!)
Rajaat first developed defiling magic in the swamp, not preserving magic. And as you said, he taught preserving magic. Sure the occasional student could have burnt out a plant or two, but with a teacher like Rajaat there to slap you down when you did, it's not something you would try to replicate on your own. It's like getting rapped on the knuckles by your typing teacher when you don't have your hands on the right keys. But meaner because it's Rajaat.
Besides, defiling isn't the basis of magic, it's the easiest way to gather the energy for magic. Just because it's easy doesn't mean you have to learn it first. On the flip side, without anyone to teach you preserving, naturally you'll look for the easier route, especially if you don't know preserving exists.
Just a thought...
I'd say defile first, but act as if all of your magic is impeded until you get the Defile feat from Dragon 351.
Just a thought...
I run a house-rule that's pretty much the opposite of that:
You defile automatically, but you need a feat to preserve.
This represents the fact that you need to train/learn how to limit how much life-force you drain from the plants.
I think the most plausible solution that preserves (pardon the pun) the feel and mechanics of casting on Athas is for the extra planar mage to either defile as a default... or even better still, when he goes to draw energy in his usual fashion, nothing happens. On Athas, the energy is simply not where he's trying to pull from.
Someone else mentioned this last option but then followed up with something about how it takes 10 yrs to train as a wizard. True, but this extra planar wizard isn't a novice. He already has the teachings and the experience etched into his neural pathways and only needs to be shown where to look for arcane energy in Dark Sun and how to effectively/prudently draw it for use. Who he meets as a mentor, be it a preserver, defiler, a cerulean or any other of the Athas-specific mages, will affects this greatly.
Overall, I don't think it's necessary to make exceptions to the way magic works on Athas to get your character back up and flinging fire-balls again. Finding a middle ground while protecting the integrity of the setting is easily attainable.
Just take the Leech PrC. It is fun...
Done and done.
Hey on a related subject...if I learn the ways of casting magic in Athas, wouldn't that mean when I left if I was in worlds of lush vegetation, I could always cast with a +2 to caster level?
Depends on the DM. Defiling may not work on other worlds or the plants on Athas absorbed magical energy when the planet was created instead of having a mystical eneergy source to power magic. Even if it did work you couldn't defile a few planets to the extent Athas has been due to gods and their portfolio sense.
Example Defiler goes to Forgotton Realms. Even if Defiling works there (which I doubt) he just let Mystra, Chauntea, and Silvanous (and probably a few ore magic/nature gods) know when he casts a defiling spell. If the priests can get him an annoyed Avatar could off him easily enough.
Depends on the DM. Defiling may not work on other worlds or the plants on Athas absorbed magical energy when the planet was created instead of having a mystical eneergy source to power magic. Even if it did work you couldn't defile a few planets to the extent Athas has been due to gods and their portfolio sense.
Example Defiler goes to Forgotton Realms. Even if Defiling works there (which I doubt) he just let Mystra, Chauntea, and Silvanous (and probably a few ore magic/nature gods) know when he casts a defiling spell. If the priests can get him an annoyed Avatar could off him easily enough.
Well I guess if I have to swallow the penalties I feel to be fair, if and when I leave I should reap some of the benefits. As far as ******* people off, that is roleplaying and I have no issue with that.
However, if a DM is ruling one way, I hope they are fair and not just penalizing all the way around.
If I end up taking a PrC on Athas or feats that aid in defiling, they better work when I leave. This is only my opinion but fairness is a huge issue for DMing as far as I'm concerned.
Well I guess if I have to swallow the penalties I feel to be fair, if and when I leave I should reap some of the benefits. As far as ******* people off, that is roleplaying and I have no issue with that.
However, if a DM is ruling one way, I hope they are fair and not just penalizing all the way around.
If I end up taking a PrC on Athas or feats that aid in defiling, they better work when I leave. This is only my opinion but fairness is a huge issue for DMing as far as I'm concerned.
I recommend speaking to your DM first then. I DM myself and heres what I would tell you.
1.Defiling/Preserving won't work off Athas
2. If you did take Defiling feats I would allow you to replace them after retraining-theres rules for it in the PHB2.
3. Defiling PrCs. I would probably let you trade 1 level of a PrC for 1 wizard level. Maybe make you lose a level as well if there were alot of levels involved (ie wiz 5/PrC5+)
I recommend speaking to your DM first then. I DM myself and heres what I would tell you.
1.Defiling/Preserving won't work off Athas
2. If you did take Defiling feats I would allow you to replace them after retraining-theres rules for it in the PHB2.
3. Defiling PrCs. I would probably let you trade 1 level of a PrC for 1 wizard level. Maybe make you lose a level as well if there were alot of levels involved (ie wiz 5/PrC5+)
Honestly I think penalizing a player for decisions you force upon them is in poor taste. I had no choice in going to Athas, and will most likely have no choice on leaving or staying.
I'm not claiming this is railroading but I will go where the DM wants to run the campaign. That being said, I shouldn't be penalized as a player because of the DM's whims.
You're the one lookong at taking Defiling feats. Just be a preserver and take normal feats. No problem if you leave Athas.
Dark Sun 3.5, doesn't say preservers don't suffer or benefit from terrain modifiers. So how does that change anything?
Dark Sun 3.5, doesn't say preservers don't suffer or benefit from terrain modifiers. So how does that change anything?
Preserver is essentially a normal D&D wizard. You don't lose anything when you return to Eberron or another world.
My character recently found himself on Athas. I am a wizard from another world, Eberron to be specific. How is magic going to be different for me? Will I have to draw energy from plant life? Or is my style unique to this world?
The "Kosher" answer?
Your wizard is going to have a dull Headache not to unlike being in a Dead Magic Zone as Ebberon Magic is based on what is called "ether" which is cut off from flowing into Dark Sun Realm by "The Grey" that impedes Astral Travel (and cooinsidently the way the "ether" flows into any given Realm)
Magic items carried will work, as will Memorized Spells (as the magic energy is locked in the wizard from memorizing the Spell) but there is no way to rememorize Spells that require the "Ether"
Your Ebberon Wizard could possibly learn Preserving or Defiler Magic given enough Training by a Preserver or Defiler but I think drawing off the lifeforce of plants to power spells is going to taste "inferior" and almost vampiric to tapping into the raw power of the "Ether"
In fact if therEis a feeling associated with sucking the life out of something or someone with a Vapiric Touch spell it's going to feel simular to learning the "spirit sucking" magic on Athas that only found elsewhere being used by Outsiders like demons...Would be quite distastefule and canabilistic to most "ether" users in my opinin.
My character recently found himself on Athas. I am a wizard from another world, Eberron to be specific. How is magic going to be different for me? Will I have to draw energy from plant life? Or is my style unique to this world?
If you were in my campaign, you'd find yourself unable to cast spells until you learned how to use Arcane magic on Athas. Scrolls or other magic items would still more or less function as desired, but you'd need to figure out how to use the source of Arcane magic on Athas and draw energy from it in order to fuel your spells. Depending on how you learn this/who teaches you, that will determine if you end up a Defiler or a Preserver.