War of the Lance (Bards and Assassins) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

War of the Lance (Bards and Assassins)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jun 30, 2007 3:54:19 So I am thinking of running my game during the War of the Lance. I have a player that wants to be a Kender Bard (That's a scary thought....). Looking up Bards (which fall under the same rules as Sorcerers and Assassins) I discover that they cast spontaneous spells. This would mean that a Bard during the War of the Lance wouldn't be able to cast any spells. I understand why the rules are saying this but my player really wants to play the Bard and I have no real problem with spontaneous spellcasting.

I personally feel that with the return of Dragons, that Sorcerers should be allowed in the game (since legend says that Sorcerers have the blood of dragons flowing through their veins). I think that you could come up with some great story arcs to that effect.

As for Bards and Assassins, I feel that the Bard is severely hampered if they can not casts spells, and the Assassin PrC really relies on spells to round out the PrC.

I know its my game and I can run it any way I want, but are there any others that allow spontaneous spellcasters before the Age of Mortals, and if so, how is it working for you? I really don't want to spoil the feeling of a Dragonlance Game but at the same time, I want my players to have fun.

Oh, and P.S.
I really don't like The Age of Mortals to be honest. The War of the Lance and The Time of Troubles is the best time in DL in my opinion. So I am hoping that spontaneous spellcasting won't ruin the flavor. I was even thinking of changing the History of my campaign so that the Age of Mortals never takes place.
#2
zombiegleemax
Jun 30, 2007 9:23:58 My understanding is that Krynnish sorcerers do not have the blood of dragons running in them. They are able to tap into the primal forces of creation. The same thing goes for mystics IIRC.
#3
Dragonhelm
Jun 30, 2007 11:03:40
So I am thinking of running my game during the War of the Lance. I have a player that wants to be a Kender Bard (That's a scary thought....). Looking up Bards (which fall under the same rules as Sorcerers and Assassins) I discover that they cast spontaneous spells. This would mean that a Bard during the War of the Lance wouldn't be able to cast any spells. I understand why the rules are saying this but my player really wants to play the Bard and I have no real problem with spontaneous spellcasting.

You could easily just say that this particular bard gains his power from the gods of magic or that his magic is divine in nature and comes from Branchala (or other appropriate deity). You can look into the bardic sage and divine bard variants from Unearthed Arcana for help there.

Another option is the prestige bard from Unearthed Arcana.

Dragonhelm's Guide to the Bards of Krynn has a lot of great ideas on how to play bard-like characters in a Dragonlance game as well.

I personally feel that with the return of Dragons, that Sorcerers should be allowed in the game (since legend says that Sorcerers have the blood of dragons flowing through their veins). I think that you could come up with some great story arcs to that effect.

Sorcerers in Dragonlance gain their magic from Wild Sorcery, the ambient arcane magic of the world. This magic is only available in the early Age of Dreams and the Age of Mortals, due to the influence of Chaos.

So technically, dragon blood isn't part of how sorcerers in Krynn work. I know, that sounds a little funny since this is DRAGONlance, but there are continuity issues at stake.

As for Bards and Assassins, I feel that the Bard is severely hampered if they can not casts spells, and the Assassin PrC really relies on spells to round out the PrC.

You might want to check out the non-spellcasting assassin variant from War of the Lance.

I really don't like The Age of Mortals to be honest. The War of the Lance and The Time of Troubles is the best time in DL in my opinion. So I am hoping that spontaneous spellcasting won't ruin the flavor. I was even thinking of changing the History of my campaign so that the Age of Mortals never takes place.

You might want to check out Legends of the Twins for the Age of Dragons timeline, which is the alternate history where the Age of Mortals never came to be.

As for spontaneous spellcasters, if the AoM isn't your thing, maybe just have them all gain their power from the gods of magic. In this scenario, you could easily say that sorcerers are rare spellcasters who naturally channel the magic of the moons. No harm in that.

Anyway, I hope that helps. Good luck with your game!
#4
steelwind
Jun 30, 2007 12:33:09
I really don't like The Age of Mortals to be honest. The War of the Lance and The Time of Troubles is the best time in DL in my opinion. So I am hoping that spontaneous spellcasting won't ruin the flavor. I was even thinking of changing the History of my campaign so that the Age of Mortals never takes place.

Just to nitpick, the Time of Troubles is from Forgotten Realms.

On topic though, to agree with a previous suggestion, just make bardic spells divine instead of arcane.
#5
darthsylver
Jun 30, 2007 19:26:19 Screw that. Just give the Bard a very unique background. He is the last of a long line of decscendents of one of the scions. He could even say that his grandfather was one of the scions. As the scions are immortal (due to their infusion of chaotic\wild\ambient\greygem power). It could even be a secret to him that he does not realize his grandfather was a scion. Or perhaps instead of the dwarven scion, he could even be the decscendant of a human version of the scion. I mean think about it. If the greygem could create scions from the dwarves, who knows what it could do to a human, or any other mortal for that matter. Yes, yes, I know the greygem. The end all answer to anything we want to throw out there that is not typically dragonlance. But I mean it. The wizard orders were created to bring to heel the renegades who used wild sorcery that was generated from the greygem. Now I know that there were very few stories of the greygem after the battle at Gargath tower, but that does not mean that it up and disappeared. The greygem never ran out of power (I mean it was chaos contained for crying out loud) so how could the source of wild sorcery dissipate after so many centuries if the source of that power never left the world and it continued to roam the world. Reorx chased it right up until the sumer of chaos. He even hooked up with Tanin, Sturm, and Palin to hunt it down. So ambient users could have possibly existed in the war of the lance, at least IMO.

Huh, huh, huh..... Sorry for the rant just then, but I get passionate about some things and I just lose control. But that is possibly an explaination for a spell-casting bard.

Shoot, I even once said that bards (this was before the official explaination for the source of the bard's spells) had the power to invoke the inherent magic in all mortals due to the fact that mortals were the spirits of the stars given physical form. So that they were not really using ambient or focused magic but simply tapping into the left over power from the sparks from the creation of the world.

But hey. What do I know.
#6
zombiegleemax
Jun 30, 2007 22:50:52 Time of Troubles?

OMFG!!

LOL!!!!

Geez I'm an idiot!

Sorry about that!

Thanks for all the great suggestions!
#7
zombiegleemax
Jul 01, 2007 7:50:35 :D Dart, passion leads to the dark side. :D
#8
darthsylver
Jul 01, 2007 14:17:12 That is only lesson one Trey. Don't forget

2. Fear is my ally.

3. Pain is the path to power.

4. Truth is but an illusion.
#9
zombiegleemax
Jul 01, 2007 15:56:53 uH-OH!!
#10
magon
Jul 01, 2007 16:34:49
Time of Troubles?

OMFG!!

LOL!!!!

Geez I'm an idiot!

Sorry about that!

Thanks for all the great suggestions!

QFT
#11
caeruleus
Jul 01, 2007 18:28:31
You might want to check out the non-spellcasting assassin variant from War of the Lance.

What page of WotL would that be on?

EDIT: Nevermind, found it.
#12
darthsylver
Jul 02, 2007 19:19:58 Pg. 275.
#13
zombiegleemax
Jul 02, 2007 21:35:47 The War of the Lance book is a very good one!!
#14
darthsylver
Jul 02, 2007 23:07:15 Speaking of Assassins, anyone know if there are 3.5 weapon stats for a garotte?
#15
zombiegleemax
Jul 04, 2007 18:43:31 I think that they are in Song and Silence and have not been updated so they would be the same.
#16
nightside_samurai
Jul 04, 2007 19:13:55 I believe there was a Dragon Magazine article that dealth the Garotte specifically.

I don't know the number but it's the one that has a big article on the Devourer.
#17
darthsylver
Jul 04, 2007 22:03:00 Thanks, I will look there.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jun 30, 2007 3:54:19	So I am thinking of running my game during the War of the Lance. I have a player that wants to be a Kender Bard (That's a scary thought....). Looking up Bards (which fall under the same rules as Sorcerers and Assassins) I discover that they cast spontaneous spells. This would mean that a Bard during the War of the Lance wouldn't be able to cast any spells. I understand why the rules are saying this but my player really wants to play the Bard and I have no real problem with spontaneous spellcasting. I personally feel that with the return of Dragons, that Sorcerers should be allowed in the game (since legend says that Sorcerers have the blood of dragons flowing through their veins). I think that you could come up with some great story arcs to that effect. As for Bards and Assassins, I feel that the Bard is severely hampered if they can not casts spells, and the Assassin PrC really relies on spells to round out the PrC. I know its my game and I can run it any way I want, but are there any others that allow spontaneous spellcasters before the Age of Mortals, and if so, how is it working for you? I really don't want to spoil the feeling of a Dragonlance Game but at the same time, I want my players to have fun. Oh, and P.S. I really don't like The Age of Mortals to be honest. The War of the Lance and The Time of Troubles is the best time in DL in my opinion. So I am hoping that spontaneous spellcasting won't ruin the flavor. I was even thinking of changing the History of my campaign so that the Age of Mortals never takes place.
#2 zombiegleemax Jun 30, 2007 9:23:58	My understanding is that Krynnish sorcerers do not have the blood of dragons running in them. They are able to tap into the primal forces of creation. The same thing goes for mystics IIRC.
#3 Dragonhelm Jun 30, 2007 11:03:40	So I am thinking of running my game during the War of the Lance. I have a player that wants to be a Kender Bard (That's a scary thought....). Looking up Bards (which fall under the same rules as Sorcerers and Assassins) I discover that they cast spontaneous spells. This would mean that a Bard during the War of the Lance wouldn't be able to cast any spells. I understand why the rules are saying this but my player really wants to play the Bard and I have no real problem with spontaneous spellcasting. You could easily just say that this particular bard gains his power from the gods of magic or that his magic is divine in nature and comes from Branchala (or other appropriate deity). You can look into the bardic sage and divine bard variants from Unearthed Arcana for help there. Another option is the prestige bard from Unearthed Arcana. Dragonhelm's Guide to the Bards of Krynn has a lot of great ideas on how to play bard-like characters in a Dragonlance game as well. I personally feel that with the return of Dragons, that Sorcerers should be allowed in the game (since legend says that Sorcerers have the blood of dragons flowing through their veins). I think that you could come up with some great story arcs to that effect. Sorcerers in Dragonlance gain their magic from Wild Sorcery, the ambient arcane magic of the world. This magic is only available in the early Age of Dreams and the Age of Mortals, due to the influence of Chaos. So technically, dragon blood isn't part of how sorcerers in Krynn work. I know, that sounds a little funny since this is DRAGONlance, but there are continuity issues at stake. As for Bards and Assassins, I feel that the Bard is severely hampered if they can not casts spells, and the Assassin PrC really relies on spells to round out the PrC. You might want to check out the non-spellcasting assassin variant from War of the Lance. I really don't like The Age of Mortals to be honest. The War of the Lance and The Time of Troubles is the best time in DL in my opinion. So I am hoping that spontaneous spellcasting won't ruin the flavor. I was even thinking of changing the History of my campaign so that the Age of Mortals never takes place. You might want to check out Legends of the Twins for the Age of Dragons timeline, which is the alternate history where the Age of Mortals never came to be. As for spontaneous spellcasters, if the AoM isn't your thing, maybe just have them all gain their power from the gods of magic. In this scenario, you could easily say that sorcerers are rare spellcasters who naturally channel the magic of the moons. No harm in that. Anyway, I hope that helps. Good luck with your game!
#4 steelwind Jun 30, 2007 12:33:09	I really don't like The Age of Mortals to be honest. The War of the Lance and The Time of Troubles is the best time in DL in my opinion. So I am hoping that spontaneous spellcasting won't ruin the flavor. I was even thinking of changing the History of my campaign so that the Age of Mortals never takes place. Just to nitpick, the Time of Troubles is from Forgotten Realms. On topic though, to agree with a previous suggestion, just make bardic spells divine instead of arcane.
#5 darthsylver Jun 30, 2007 19:26:19	Screw that. Just give the Bard a very unique background. He is the last of a long line of decscendents of one of the scions. He could even say that his grandfather was one of the scions. As the scions are immortal (due to their infusion of chaotic\wild\ambient\greygem power). It could even be a secret to him that he does not realize his grandfather was a scion. Or perhaps instead of the dwarven scion, he could even be the decscendant of a human version of the scion. I mean think about it. If the greygem could create scions from the dwarves, who knows what it could do to a human, or any other mortal for that matter. Yes, yes, I know the greygem. The end all answer to anything we want to throw out there that is not typically dragonlance. But I mean it. The wizard orders were created to bring to heel the renegades who used wild sorcery that was generated from the greygem. Now I know that there were very few stories of the greygem after the battle at Gargath tower, but that does not mean that it up and disappeared. The greygem never ran out of power (I mean it was chaos contained for crying out loud) so how could the source of wild sorcery dissipate after so many centuries if the source of that power never left the world and it continued to roam the world. Reorx chased it right up until the sumer of chaos. He even hooked up with Tanin, Sturm, and Palin to hunt it down. So ambient users could have possibly existed in the war of the lance, at least IMO. Huh, huh, huh..... Sorry for the rant just then, but I get passionate about some things and I just lose control. But that is possibly an explaination for a spell-casting bard. Shoot, I even once said that bards (this was before the official explaination for the source of the bard's spells) had the power to invoke the inherent magic in all mortals due to the fact that mortals were the spirits of the stars given physical form. So that they were not really using ambient or focused magic but simply tapping into the left over power from the sparks from the creation of the world. But hey. What do I know.
#6 zombiegleemax Jun 30, 2007 22:50:52	Time of Troubles? OMFG!! LOL!!!! Geez I'm an idiot! Sorry about that! Thanks for all the great suggestions!
#7 zombiegleemax Jul 01, 2007 7:50:35	:D Dart, passion leads to the dark side. :D
#8 darthsylver Jul 01, 2007 14:17:12	That is only lesson one Trey. Don't forget 2. Fear is my ally. 3. Pain is the path to power. 4. Truth is but an illusion.
#9 zombiegleemax Jul 01, 2007 15:56:53	uH-OH!!
#10 magon Jul 01, 2007 16:34:49	Time of Troubles? OMFG!! LOL!!!! Geez I'm an idiot! Sorry about that! Thanks for all the great suggestions! QFT
#11 caeruleus Jul 01, 2007 18:28:31	You might want to check out the non-spellcasting assassin variant from War of the Lance. What page of WotL would that be on? EDIT: Nevermind, found it.
#12 darthsylver Jul 02, 2007 19:19:58	Pg. 275.
#13 zombiegleemax Jul 02, 2007 21:35:47	The War of the Lance book is a very good one!!
#14 darthsylver Jul 02, 2007 23:07:15	Speaking of Assassins, anyone know if there are 3.5 weapon stats for a garotte?
#15 zombiegleemax Jul 04, 2007 18:43:31	I think that they are in Song and Silence and have not been updated so they would be the same.
#16 nightside_samurai Jul 04, 2007 19:13:55	I believe there was a Dragon Magazine article that dealth the Garotte specifically. I don't know the number but it's the one that has a big article on the Devourer.
#17 darthsylver Jul 04, 2007 22:03:00	Thanks, I will look there.