Binders in Ravenloft

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zombiegleemax

Jul 01, 2007 14:57:42
Not sure if there has been a thread about this before. But how has everyone dealt with the Binder class (from Tome of Magic) in Ravenloft.

It is a great class with tons of flavour, which I think suits Ravenloft. I'm sure you could create a perfect path for a character or NPC to follow.

I'm also sure that some new Dread Vestiges could be engineered. Pershaps some inspiration could be taken from Voudan
#2

tykus

Jul 09, 2007 16:16:29
Not sure if there has been a thread about this before. But how has everyone dealt with the Binder class (from Tome of Magic) in Ravenloft.

It is a great class with tons of flavour, which I think suits Ravenloft. I'm sure you could create a perfect path for a character or NPC to follow.

I'm also sure that some new Dread Vestiges could be engineered. Pershaps some inspiration could be taken from Voudan

Maybe some "dread" vestiges could be ex-domain lords that were either defeated or escaped (in essence, a part of them was left behind). Kas would be a good example (he did appear in Dragon as a vestige, after all).
#3

zombiegleemax

Jul 09, 2007 16:49:40
Maybe some "dread" vestiges could be ex-domain lords that were either defeated or escaped (in essence, a part of them was left behind). Kas would be a good example (he did appear in Dragon as a vestige, after all).

Sounds good anyone have a list of the Ex-Dark Lords?
#4

humanbing

Jul 10, 2007 15:15:00
Hmm. This is tricky. Some dark lords become "ex" because they were killed. Others become "ex" because they were merely removed from Ravenloft and are not necessarily dead.

Which do you need?

From what I can tell, the following dark lords are dead:

  • Duke Gundar, of Gundarak
  • Kas the Destroyer of Tovag (squished by Vecna)
  • Daglan Daegon of Daglan
  • Lord Soth, though he was released to Krynn first and then killed by the most powerful force known to D&D - the retcon
  • Bakholis, werewolf lord of Invidia before Aderre
  • Darcalus arguably (if he existed at all, he was the lord of Darkon before Azalin destroyed him)


And the following vanished without a trace:

  • Jack Karn, lord of Farelle
  • Lord Torrence Bleysmith (or Bleystone? I can't remember) of Staunton Bluffs


Additional ex-darklords are still around but we're not sure if they are darklords or not:

  • Nathan Timothy, used to rule Arkandale, now he rules a ship
  • Ivan Dilisnya, used to rule Dorvinia, now he timeshares with his cousin Ivana Boritsi
#5

rotipher

Jul 10, 2007 15:58:32
When this issue came up on the FoS board, the idea of making vestiges based on the Major cards of the Tarokka deck was extremely popular. It's also more morally-ambiguous than using ex-darklords, which is consistent with the idea that vestiges aren't good or evil, just spooky and enigmatic.
#6

gonzoron

Jul 10, 2007 16:08:59
  • Duke Gundar, of Gundarak

Was dead. now he's back, as of CotN:Werebeasts.
  • Darcalus arguably (if he existed at all, he was the lord of Darkon before Azalin destroyed him)

Most likely false history. Az's full name is Firan Darcalus Zal'honan, and previous products make it clear that he stepped into the mists, and Darkon appeared.

Then there's also
  • Camille Boritsi, former lord of Borca, killed by her daughter Ivana
  • Claude Renier, former lord of Richmulot, killed by his daughter Jacqueline (I think, maybe she just took over after he died. I can't remember).
Additional ex-darklords are still around but we're not sure if they are darklords or not:

  • Ivan Dilisnya, used to rule Dorvinia, now he timeshares with his cousin Ivana Boritsi

He's definitely a darklord. He's listed as such, and he can't leave Borca. The only thing that might indicate he's not a DL is that he can't close the borders, but neither can Drakov.
#7

burningspear

Jul 10, 2007 17:11:59
But none the less this thread is proving to be very interesting

keep the good work coming
#8

zombiegleemax

Jul 10, 2007 17:19:38
I think another lot of tarot vestiges have been done in another thread, can't remember where. Tarokka is another interseting matter though.
#9

zombiegleemax

Jul 10, 2007 17:30:51
Maybe a change to the class for ravenloft is the influence and sign drawbacks. Perhaps when using an ability granted by the vestige (that requires an action), the sign of the vestige becomes visible and can't be supressed.
#10

zombiegleemax

Jul 10, 2007 17:44:44
An idea that has come up elsewhere regarding vestiges would be to make some of them figures from Ravenloft's false history, which seems fitting enough.

And Darklords that were dead (or "dead") and then revived might under some circumstances be a possibility as well. One of the Vestiges suggested in "Tome of Magic" was after all Tenebrous, and there's little to suggest that Tenebrous at any time was anyone but Orcus during a brief stint as semi-revived before he made it back to full life and divinity.
#11

rotipher

Jul 12, 2007 10:03:25
[*]Claude Renier, former lord of Richmulot, killed by his daughter Jacqueline (I think, maybe she just took over after he died. I can't remember).

Claude was Jacqueline's grandfather, not her father. (Her mom killed her human father, Simon Audaire, when Jackie and Louise were five.) Claude Renier was poisoned by Jacqueline using his chemical bane.
#12

gonzoron

Jul 12, 2007 11:27:17
Right... I knew I was misremembering something about Claude, but I couldn't remember what, and was away from my RL library. Thanks for the correction, Rotipher.
#13

tykus

Jul 22, 2007 16:01:45
It's also more morally-ambiguous than using ex-darklords, which is consistent with the idea that vestiges aren't good or evil, just spooky and enigmatic.

Granted, I don't own the Tome of Magic (yet), the few vestiges I've seen popping up lately (such as the Abyssal vestiges in Dungeon AND Dragon) seems to indicate alignment still plays a factor for the vestige (and I'm not talking about the binder).
#14

zombiegleemax

Jul 22, 2007 17:38:17
Granted, I don't own the Tome of Magic (yet), the few vestiges I've seen popping up lately (such as the Abyssal vestiges in Dungeon AND Dragon) seems to indicate alignment still plays a factor for the vestige (and I'm not talking about the binder).

Well the vestige is a definite personality, and some are evil. Normal D&D doesn't label any of the abilities evil unless they're based on a [Evil] spell. Maybe a powers check (in some cases madness save) for making a poor pact with an evil vestige.
#15

zombiegleemax

Aug 07, 2007 9:28:32
I love this only problem is has any one done any work to stat these guys up, a list of names is great but what about the powers they grant?
if i had the books i'd do some work but my older brother has then and he's half way across the country.
When he came home for 4th of July i played a binder warlock worked out great with the feel of Ravenloft.
#16

MidwayHaven

Aug 12, 2007 0:19:36
My direction here with binders is to just make completely new vestiges, with more sinister motives.
#17

Sysane

Aug 14, 2007 15:36:23
Not that I know a lot about binders and vestiges, but has anyone thought of basing them off the Seven Deadly Sins (lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy, and pride) and the Seven Holy Virtures ( chastity, abstinence, liberality, diligence, patience, kindness, and humility)? That would seem very gothic flavored to me anyway.
#18

ravenloftlover347

Aug 20, 2007 20:12:35
I think Kas should be one of the vestiges. I can't remember exactly which one it is but he does appear as one in a Dragon that was doing additional vestiges.
#19

thanael

Aug 21, 2007 2:56:48
HMB what's your source for Vecna vanquishing Kas? Is it canon?
#20

humanbing

Aug 21, 2007 8:10:39
I have no source for it, just what I read from somebody else's post. Very likely the post was on FraternityofShadows.com, and I believe they referred to a Dragon magazine article whereby Kas was mentioned as being defeated by Vecna when Vecna ascended to godhood.
#21

thanael

Aug 21, 2007 11:15:28
Ah thanks. That would probably be from the Vestige article in Dragon. Also i found the FoS threads.

Now this really makes me want to get Deepshadow and Nathan of the Fraternity together to write an article (or a short story) about the Burning Peaks Cluster.