Would an artificer have to defile or preserve? It states specifically under artificers, "They function just like spells and follow all the rules for spells." Well wouldn't this basically mean that on Athas, the magic to empower the infusions are drawn from plant life too?
"Infusions are neither arcane nor divine", is written in ECS two lines above.
Yes I'm aware of that as far as what type of magic they are. They are generic, but they are magic. They are cast like every other spell.
The magic comes from somewhere...
Cleric magic is granted by Sorcer-Kings or Elementals basically....magic is drawn from plants (generally speaking).
So where is the magic drawn from to cast infusions?
1) Psionics is more of a baseline in the setting, while magic is much rarer.
2) During the Green Age, at the height of psionics use, Guardians and other psionic creations were very common. It makes more sense for them to exist in this period to enhance and maintain the psionic infrastructure of some of the city-states, nations and empires that rose and fell during that time.
3) Arcane Magic on Athas is focused on other things than "infusions," and Rajaat, the originator of Arcane Magic, would not have focused on this area, especially if there were a psionic version already working.
4) The elemental and druid powers have their own concerns, and wouldn't go this route.
anyway, my 2 bits.
Honestly, if you are going to go the route of the artificer on Athas, I would use the psionic artificer variant. They would have a reason to be there more than a magical version, because:
It isn't a matter of going this route. The DM brought us to Athas from Eberron. There is now a human artificer on Athas. So not much can be done about it now as far as changing the character.
I'm just wondering how it would work. I honestly believe that it should function like other spells. Meaning it does indeed pull magic from plants.
I really doubt the other options would work any better.
Talk to you DM and make it fun, as this is the point.
well, if that is the case, it's up to your DM. Personally, I don't like the idea of mixing campaign worlds, as both Eberron and Athas are closed systems.
Talk to you DM and make it fun, as this is the point.
I don't necessarily agree with the mixing of campaign systems either. I myself believe that you should stick to one or the other...and by all means stay away from the Forgotten Realms because Drizzt is a loser. ;)
..but that being said, this is the subject we're dealing with. My wizard is now a defiler basically because I don't know any better. The artificer is a character the DM has played and is currently an NPC. Thinking about how magic works on Athas I don't see why I (as the wizard) should suffer from the new way magic works and the artificer shouldn't. Both of us draw upon magic and use it to use our abilities.
Infusions act as spells, and they are obviously not being granted by a sorceror-king or elemental god. So would it not stand to reason that an artificer pulls his magic for infusions from the plant life around him/her too?
So would it not stand to reason that an artificer pulls his magic for infusions from the plant life around him/her too?
Of the mentioned options I think that makes the most sense. I'd say the artificer preserves or defiles like a wizard.
Of the mentioned options I think that makes the most sense. I'd say the artificer preserves or defiles like a wizard.
Not sure how my DM will like that option. The character is his own and he is currently enslaved and fighting in the gladiator pits.
He used an infusion so in retrospect, he would have just defiled in front of an entire crowd of people. :D
Yes I'm aware of that as far as what type of magic they are. They are generic, but they are magic. They are cast like every other spell.
Yes, but I think the point was that it specifically is not arcane magic, and only arcane magic draws life energy from plants, therefore it does not require plant-energy just because it is magic.
Yes, but I think the point was that it specifically is not arcane magic, and only arcane magic draws life energy from plants, therefore it does not require plant-energy just because it is magic.
So it is your opinion that an artificer would cast infusions without any change then? They would draw magic to power there spells from "wherever" they want to or normally do?
If you read magic in Eberron it says magic imbues everything. Like the force kind of... Magic does not imbue everything on Athas.
That being said, could we assume then that an artificer simply can't cast infusions at all. The magic that surrounded them in their world is gone, and since it isn't divine or arcane they have no "tricks" to get the power back on Athas?
Yes, but I think the point was that it specifically is not arcane magic, and only arcane magic draws life energy from plants, therefore it does not require plant-energy just because it is magic.
I agree with that as far as it goes. But on Athas, all magic needs an explicit power source, and infusions don't seem to match any of them. Since artificers seem (to me) to be similar to wizards, I'd probably just change it so that they are arcane casters and therefore draw plant energy.
As an alternative, there could be adventure possibilities in saying that since they aren't arcane or divine, they can't use their infusions until they manage to find another source to tap. Then they go off and locate the crumbling notes of the last artificer who came to Athas and managed to jury-rig something that converts plant energy (or something else) into a form usable by artificers. And of course some defiler or psion happens to be seeking the same notes, etc, etc. That does weaken them until they fix the problem though.
I agree with that as far as it goes. But on Athas, all magic needs an explicit power source, and infusions don't seem to match any of them. Since artificers seem (to me) to be similar to wizards, I'd probably just change it so that they are arcane casters and therefore draw plant energy.
As an alternative, there could be adventure possibilities in saying that since they aren't arcane or divine, they can't use their infusions until they manage to find another source to tap. Then they go off and locate the crumbling notes of the last artificer who came to Athas and managed to jury-rig something that converts plant energy (or something else) into a form usable by artificers. And of course some defiler or psion happens to be seeking the same notes, etc, etc. That does weaken them until they fix the problem though.
I think there has to be some type of limitation or trick if you will, for an artificer to pull magic to empower infusions. I would lean towards the same was as arcane magic since no other way seems feasible.
Either that or something like using the gray, black, or cerlean storm or what not.
I would allow you to be a Psionic artificer (page 42 Magic of Eberron) however. Thats just me though. If I was feeling really generous I might allow a normal Artificer to work but not tell you where the power is drawn from.
As a DM you would hate me. I would rule that infusions wouldn't work full stop. They're not magic in the traditional sense and would have no power source as its raw magic not arcane/divine.
Infusions would work just like normally, for game purposes there treated just like spells for when it comes to spell resistance, saves and other things, but they are neither Arcane or Divine. Same concept would be if a Warlock is made in Dark Sun, would the Eldridge powers have to defile? No. They just cast normally, unless noted that there powers are subject to Arcane properties, then they have to decide to either Defile or Preserve.
I think there has to be some type of limitation or trick if you will, for an artificer to pull magic to empower infusions. I would lean towards the same was as arcane magic since no other way seems feasible.
Infusions work differently then Arcane. Yes Arcane requires a source but your talking about a much larger scale of magic here then infusions. Artificers are no where near the power of a wizard. Your comparing somebody that can cast a weapon infusion with a cast time of 1 minute as opposed to somebody that can cast "Power Word Kill" and its game over in less then one round. Keep in mind unless there's a construct traveling with the artificer, over half of his infusions are worthless.
In my campaign system I will not hinder an artificer like that. They are already very limited to what they can do in a group, plus since there's skills are feats are built around crafting and there's i almost no metal to there disposal, well that makes most of there crafting skills useless. If I were an artificer in one of your campaigns and you said you can't cast your infusions becouse somebody has to either teach you or you have to defile, i'd literally pack up my stuff and leave and find another group.
Artificers are almost worthless in darksun, so to hinder them even more is obsurd. Sure its cool to put a Bane Giant on a weapon for a gladiator fight, but a Soul Knife can create magical weapons at a much more conservative way with a faster casting also.
Fighter: Quick I need an infusion to help me defeat this monster
Artificer: ok I only got level 6 infusions left let me spend and action point so I can cast it in 1 round.
Artificer casts, 30ft radius around him turns to ash, then touches the warriars bone blade.
Fighter: Wow what did you put on my sword?
Artificer: I just gave it Keen
Or take the energy from the sun. That's always a good idea on a world where the sun looks like it is about to go supernova.
The only good artificer is a dead artificer. :evillaugh
/casts infusion "Bane Darkpawn"
/casts infusion "Bane Darkpawn"
Slaps Kaladon in the face with two split rays of enfeeblement. Drops his strength to 1, then walks up as he struggles to stand and squishes his head under his boot.
