Also, the impact of being able to manifest spells as a psionic power could be seen as a boon to a society which craves magic but must limit what they cast to what their environment could bear. An Erudite using these techniques could be seen as the ultimate Preserver!
Athas is a place of wild evolution in the struggle to survive, and I think the ability to cast spells with the power of the Way could be seen as the culmination of the development of magic on Athas. And if one were to use the Defiler rules from Dragon Magazine, one could still defile and gain the benefits of doing so (with liberal interpretation and/or bending of the rules). Using these rules, one could meet the Defiler requirement of teh Dragon Metamorphosis without taking a single level of a spellcasting class.
This is interesting in that you can take a spellbook and attempt to learn your powers from there, but it is not something that you couldn't already do.
So because it is a power and not a spell, it wouldn't help you qualify. Though, people have said that it really makes things potent, and needs some fixes to make it not horribly broken. (auto scaling and the like)
What I think I'll do is also modify the Dragon and Avangion classes to reflect a more psionic base for the transformation. No really big changes, but maybe a Dragon ability that lets them use the PP of beings around it to power Dragon Magic rather than the life force (if the dragon so wishes).And I'll definitely modify All-Out Attack to allow for the manifestation of two powers (as long as one is a converted spell) rather than a spell and a power.
I realize that this is just another item on the stack of ideas for how to use and exploit means of spellcasting other that Rajaat's ways, but I think it has a lot of potential for campaign use. Imagine being able to have a character become a Dragon not through the slaughter of sentient beings, but through the gathering of immense quantities of Psionic energy! Or an AVANGION that truly only uses its own energy reserves, and doesn't tap its environment for power AT ALl!
And all this will really require is a slight tweaking of the rules (or the metamorphosis requirements) allowing one to treat the ability to psionically manifest spells to substitute for normal spellcasting requirements.
I'm trying to come up with a mental picture of what a dragon of the aforementioned typw would look like...... Probably a lot like a gem dragon.....
Let me know how it goes. It's your campaign and your world, I just wanted to make sure I was reading it correctly.
Imagine a Blood Magus or Green Star Adept or Acolyte of the Skin powered by psionics! An Argent Savant would be a natural choice for a character focused on force effects.
There are other in-game factors to consider, too. How would the Order react to this? Would they allow themselves to use these techniques or would they consider them "psionic heresy" and relentlessly sttempt to snuff the new method out?
If someone could get the word out in a Dark Sun campaign, the face of Athas could go through considerable change. I don't think there would be a spellcaster on Athas who wouldn't jump on the idea of powering their spells with the Way, for purposes of preserving the terrain or fior covering their tracks by leaving Defiler's ash every time they use a spell.
I'm coming up with a lot of ideas for this very quickly, so excuse the long rant:D
I think I'll include another nomadic, hidden group of Elans (in my game there are several), and give them credit as the inventors of this new technique, to further dissolve their need for outside power or materials. I have plans for them to make a few powerful leaders for their army to invade the Tablelands and destroy the SKs(whom they see as threats to their planet). The idea of a completely self-sufficient army introduced itself to my game as soon as Elans were made official, and now the ability to make my nomadic elans spell-capable is the icing on the cake!
Another interesting repercussion of this new spellcasting method is that it would probably be very easy for an Erudite to infiltrate the veiled alliance, posing as a Preserver (Which he actually is, in a very unique way). Agents of the Sorcerer Kings would have a much easier time infiltrating the ranks of the enemy with this at their disposal.
Would the Preservers see this method as the next step in the development of Preserver magic, or as some kind of unacceptable practice(though I don't see the latter as a likely outcome). And what would Oronis do with this knowledge? With the Character Retraining method and slightly modified Avangion Metamorphosis spells, he could free himself from Rajaat's teachings once and for all, not needing to draw magic from any source other than himself, and use this energy on the quest to re-green Athas! I realize that many DMs rule that Avangions already draw on no external sources of power, but this idea would completely ruin the ambiguity of this concept.
Also, a straignt-class Erudite could begin the Metamorphosis (defiler or preserver) several levels earlier than any multiclass character, perhaps as many as 7 levels earlier(if one allows an Arden'ts spell-manifesting to fulfill the spellcasting requirements for the Metamorphosis spells.)
One could even go so far as to retcon DS history, and maybe have one of the SKs be a follower of this path. It could be a great plot-hook to explain Daskinor's insanity (maybe he developed the technique, and that's what broke his mind!) Or maybe Oronis came up with it more recently, as the culmination of his studies in Preserving magic).
Also, how would druids respond to spellcasting in this manner? Perhaps it could have been a development on their part, to come up with a tempting alternative to using plants as power sources. That would mean that for the first time on Athas, a Druid could learn how to cast an Arcane spell without having any possible transgression of their ethos! Clerics, as well!
And, with slight modifications, the Dragon Magazine Defiling rules could make this already potent type of character that much more powerful.
Another cool side effect of multiclassing with Mind Mage is that if you don't intend to use your Wizard levels very much, you can just use them to pay for metapsionic feats. Imagine that, using psionics to cast a spell, and burning an actual spell of possibly lower level to make the spell more potent than if it had been cast normally! The trade-off is excellent. You sacrifice a prepared level 2 spell to maximize a psionically cast spell, when it normally costs 3 spell levels ON TOP OF the original spell's level to maximize a spell. This means that a level 14 character sould be throwing around maximized fireballs at a discount rate! For example, An Erudite could manifest a Fireball for 10 PP (to bring the max damage to it's limit, 10d6) and burn a lv2 wizard spell slot to maximize it., instead of using a level 6 spell slot
! If one follows this path, the spells gained for the Wizard levels effectively becomes a bank of power to be used for Metapsionic feats. This type of character would mop the floor with a staight-up Wizard or Psion, or even a character using traditional Psion/Wizard levels and the Mind Mage PrC. WOTC finally made an idea that I am forced to rant about and extoll its glories!
I will definitely be including this concept into my plans for Kurn and Oronis (Maybe Lalali-Puy, as well). It seems only natural for Oronis due to his dedication to preservation and restoration, and it serves Lalali-Puy's interests by eliminating a threat to her forest. As the concept spreads on my Athas, I can see defilers becoming all but extinct due to a much easier power source that won't get them slain for slaughtering the land. This could spell the end of the slow death of the tablelands. Rajaat would be grinding his teeth if he causht wind that there was a better way to cast his spells, and would probably lose his mind(even more!) if he were to discover that theire was a way for him to power his spells while trapped in the Hollow, but he'd have to escape from his prison in order to learn it! If he did learn it, he could probably use his vast arcane knowledge to design a psi-spell that would rupture the Hollow and free him. (all this goes off of my theory that Rajaat being kept prisoner in the Hollow is only possible because breaking himself out would require magic, regular psionic powers can't do it). He's a penultimate mindbender, as well, so he should be of more than sufficient level to pull it off.
heh. Trees of life would become unnecessary for spellcasting, and arcane magic could be used more than ever!
I wonder how the SKs laws against spellcasting would be applied to those who MANIFEST their spells...... Technically, i think it would be legal!
Another benefit to the expanded erudite- I don't think they need to carry a spellbook, since an Erudite simply KNOWS their powers. Imagine that, all the spells and powers you can get yourt hands on and decipher, and no need to carry aroung huge, dusty tomes with you if yoiu expect to go on an adventure for a few days. And with the ability to spend power points instead of using material components (granted by Mind Mage), they would have no need to carry illegal spellcasting components with them!
I don't think that it's really appropriate for Dark Sun. Though we obviously have vastly different opinion on that issue, as I don't think a Thri-Kreen Dragon is appropriate either.:P
I don't know, I have an Epic can of Raid that I carry around... Hasn't been an issue for me:P
I don't think that it's really appropriate for Dark Sun. Though we obviously have vastly different opinion on that issue, as I don't think a Thri-Kreen Dragon is appropriate either.:P
Sorry for the delay in response.... I was kicking halflings off a cliff. RHUL-than halflings, actually.
And developing an epic spell for permanent poison resistance.:D I have to disagree about this new development being appropriate. I think it's just the next step in the evolution of magic on Athas. There are Necromants, who draw on the Grey. There are Shadow Wizards, who draw on the black. And there are Ceruleans who draw on the Cerulean Storm. This was a major change in the later stages of the campaign setting, and being able to "manifest" spells is the next logical step in alternatives to defiling. There is an artifact that sets precedent for this, the Dark Lens itself. It can convert psionic might into spells, and vice versa. And there are many references in the game material and the novels alluding to the fact that magic and psionics are two sides of the same coin. I've always ran with the thought that Athasian spellcasting, at its basest fundemantals, requires psionic power as a catalyst to draw the life-force from your environment and shape it into the desired spell, and that the spellcasters never realize it, because spellcasting involves rituals and components and such. I think that they draw on their own latent psionic potential to be the "spark" that initiates the spell. Not a LOT of psionic power is involved, just enough to begin the draw of energy from the environment. Also, spellcasters have to meditate, study, and shape the spell in their mind. IMO there is some psionics involved, but it's such a small amount that the spellcaster never realizes it,because its very subtle.
Another thought-Can the Erudite teach converted spells to other characters(Psions and psychic warriors can learn powers from other characters or power stones when they gain new powers for class levels)? Strictly speaking, the converted spells are treated as psionic powers in every way. They ARE powers, they were just created based on magic and duplicate the effects.
They are powers that can be taught, which is what makes it such an awesome thing.
I'll be designing a Prestige Class and a set of Epic Metamorphosis spells to go with it. The obvious physical changes will not be as drastic as other ABs. There will be shards of crystal growing out of their body, in a kind of partial exoskeleton. Not a full body covering, but crystals growing out of the forearms, shoulders, ribcage, shins, knuckles, fingertips, and spine. The internal organs and bones will become crystalline as well, stronger and more resistant to damage than their natural predecessors. The eyes will have a glow that can be suppressed. Basically, most of the changes will be able to be hidden by a robe or cloak, The crystalline shards from the knuckles and shins could be used as natural weapons, as well. Maybe I'll include an ability to make the shards grow in size, for better use as weapons.
The Familiar and Psicrystal will be changed as well, becoming one entity. The Transformational class will include an ability that makes the Familiar/Psicrystal combo base its abilities on the PC's caster or manifester level, whichever is higher. It will gain all the benefits of both component entities. its physical composition will be about half crystal. It will have all the abilities of a psicrystal and familiar, but bonuses to ability scores will overlap, not stack. It will be able to channel a spell and a psionic power once per round, in keeping with the modified version of All-Out-Attack that the PC will recieve.
The PC will have many of the benefits of other ABs, such as Far Reach, Metamixture, Metapotency,Path of Least Resistance, and a modified version of Psionic Raze that lets you gain the PP that would ordinarily be lost by the victims.
Many abilities will be granted by the class levels, including scaling up of the Psionic Raze ability (Which I think I'll rename to Psionic Raid or Psionic Plunder). There will also be an ability allowing the PC to use PP to regain spells that have been cast, but that will cost a lot of PP. The base concept for this AB is versatile psionic might, and the ability to regain PP in battle, as well as using psionics to bolster regular spells and vice/versa. The physical transformation will be mainly to augment defensive capabilities, with little to no emphasis on physical attacks. That's what Psionics and Magic are for.
Among the defensive capabilities will be scaling damage reduction, SR/PR and permanent Reddopsi/Spell Turning effects. I'm working on a new version of Kinetic Control as a permanent ability as well, perhaps with the capability of turning some of the damage into PP.
Essentially, this AB class will be all about Psionic might, with a minimized focus on big physical changes.
I realize that this concept is kind off off the chain, but my games are reaching ultra-high levels, and I need to make more potent classes. I wanted to wait for Legends of Athas, but I don't know when that will come out.
I have to say, Terminus, that I'm impressed. Not only impressed, I have an NPC who has a really mysterious demeanor and background and I think I've found what I'd like to do with him now. Good stuff, so thanks for this string of inspiration.
Also, I like the AB type you have in the works. You mentioned not really knowing what you would do with the whole DR and PP thing, and something immediately came to mind for me. Maybe you'll like it as well.
Clarity Through Pain (Su): Any time ABthingy would be affected by an attack with damage that can be halted by DR, any time ABthingy's DR would stop all damage from a given attack, add the amount of damage halted to a temporary PP pool. These PP are used before all others and only last until the end of the ABthingy's next action.
I know "Clarity Through Pain" is a bad name, since no damage is taken, but eh. Come up with something else *shrugs*
Does anyone know if Expanded Knowledge allows you to increase the number of powers known as an Erudite? It might seem obvious but with such fierce restructions on the class I'm not sure.
Mark Charke
Charke -Expanded Knowledge is perfectly valid for an Erudite. However, one of the main strengths of an Erudite is that they can learn pretty much any power they come across, so I'd be very careful in spending a feat on something that could be done in other ways. It is, however, a great way to get those powers you want, if you can't find them anywhere else!
I'm sure some people would cry that the Erudite is fine and doesn't need patching and that those are not the people who would ever play the character. 1 power per day totally defeats the purpose of the class. Standard play is 1 defensive, 1 offensive and 1 fun power which is why virtually all spellcasters get 3 spells/day to start with - so they are functional.
Again, the Erudite has tremendous potential but it was badly edited and feels lumped on the end like a good idea that wasn't fully developed. The New language and terms in the class alone created huge confusion plus the typo in the description of the abilities.
I was hoping to find a feat which would upgrade the class out of the gutter but no luck so far.
Mark Charke
But, at later levels, the Erudite really starts to own the show. The limit on unique powers per day in no way dictates the level of those powers, or the energy type used (for energy powers). A high level Erudite can do a lot of damage, and even stick to just a few powers to do it. If you get right down to it, all one needs in most situations is Crystal Shard and Energy Ray or a similar power, along with a few buffs and a healing power. That's the barebones, and it'll get you past most beasties without much hassle. But there are a lot of interesting powers out there, and there will always come that situation where one says "I need "x" power to smash this demon". And, in light of the limited unique powers per day, one should keep in mind that an Erudite can make Dorjes of any power they know. Which leads to some interesting possibilities now that an Erudite can convert spells to powers. Heh. Imagine the look on a despised Sk's face when he gets a a concussion from getting a Meteor Swarm dropped on his head, when the only people who are fighting him are Psionics users!