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#1humanbingJul 11, 2007 12:54:33 | (This thread is replicated, though less tidily, at the www.fraternityofshadows.com forum, under "Azalin's spellbook") Hello all. A few weeks ago I felt like analyzing some 3.5 spells because I wasn't satisfied with my grasp of them. I also decided to limit myself to Azalin's spellbook, so at least the task would be manageable. Furthermore, I decided to take as inspiration the "final showdown" scene where the PCs fight Azalin in the end of From the Shadows. There, Azalin doesn't use any magical items and doesn't call up any undead minions. It's just a one-on-one fight between him and the PCs. Here are my findings. Beginning precepts about Azalin:
Precepts about wizards in general:
Scroll use There's not much to say here. Depending on how tough or how easy the DM wants to make Azalin, he could have no scrolls at all, or a very large number of scrolls. A DM wanting to make the combat very easy on his PCs could give Azalin literally no scrolls and have him memorize noncombat spells, which reduces him to using his lich touch to fight the PCs. Note that it's possible that this could still beat the whole party, as the lich touch can conceivably paralyze after just one hit (depending on enemy's save) and that hit is usually fairly easy to land, because it's a touch attack. For a really tough Azalin, the DM could give him scroll after scroll of powerful spells, which he would produce and cast more or less at will once per round. This would naturally work best if he had some minions to tie up the PCs while he does the spellwork, but once you admit endless hordes of undead minions into the equation, it all becomes one-sided and academic anyway. Note that liches may, at DM's ruling, take less time to rememorize arcane spells than living wizards. In page 23 of Van Richten's Guide to the Lich it is noted that a lich can regain spells at a rate of 1 turn of concentration or meditation per spell level. (This may be due in part to the fact that liches never sleep.) Even if the lich is interrupted, it can come back to its meditation and regain levels as if there was no interruption. It still needs its spellbook, which limits the usefulness of this technique, but bear in mind that any spells that are subject to Spell Mastery do not have this problem. Azalin has a few very useful spells under Spell Master, including Telekinesis and Dimension Door. If he is able to get away from combat for 4 turns (quite possible, given his undead summoning and paralyzing touch abilities) he may be able to memorize these as needed. (Of course by that time the combat is likely already over one way or another.) Saves vs. their spells This is a problem for all wizards. Saving throws are a randomizing factor in many of their spells, and short of using a Heightened Spell to increase the saves, there's not a lot they can do to skew the odds more in their favor. Fortunately, there are some ways around this. Ray spells These usually do not give a saving throw at all. Generally, the d20 roll is all in the caster's ranged touch attack, but that's usually a better deal than allowing the enemy to make a save. A ranged touch attack takes only range increments and the enemy's Dex bonus into account, and Dex bonuses accure far more slowly than do Reflex save bonuses.
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#2humanbingJul 11, 2007 13:12:46 | Tactically, sometimes the most important boost to an area-effect spell is to force the enemies to stay in the area. This can be done with the various Wall spells, Black Tentacles, Web, or even Prismatic Wall (though whether Azalin could then cast any spell like effects past it is debatable). Forcecage can be cast to allow spell effects to penetrate, which basically means that people inside are in big trouble unless they can counterspell the area effects or get rid of the Forcecage. Reflex save spells: Azalin has plenty of these spells, but tactically they are less useful than Will based spells. Firstly, there is no spell that tenderizes Ref saves the same way Mind Fog tenderizes Will saves (automatic -10!). Azalin would likely first hit them with a Limited Wish and then with a Bestow Curse or something similar before trying these out. Secondly, Azalin's undead minions ARE vulnerable to Ref based spells, in a way that they're not vulnerable to Will based spells.
A note and house rule on Ref saves and certain spells: A note on Incendiary Cloud, which many people think is inferior to Fireball: Then you have the Fortitude targeting spells, which include most of the Necromantic death magic that liches like to use. Azalin, as mentioned before, is even less likely to like to use these in combat unless things really turn for the worst, because he prefers to capture, not kill. However, these do have the benefit of being harmless to his minions or to himself, because undead are immune to all Fort-save spells that do not also affect objects.
Horrid Wilting is also a favorite of undead spellcasters, inflicting up to 18d6 damage to any living creatures in a 60' diameter. Azalin can march his undead in to attack the PCs as he does this, confident it will not harm his allies. Unfortunately, this spell is not on Azalin's spell list, but a DM would be well in his rights to include it. General points: If Azalin is not relying on stealth (i.e. he can allow the PCs to see him) then his combat castings will likely make use of old standbys. Mirror Image, Obscuring Mist, Haste, Magic Circle Against Good, Invisibility, and Project Image all give him the ability to evade enemy attacks for a while. Stoneskin gives very good defense against attacks (now Azalin's enemies need adamantine magical bludgeoning weapons to bypass his DR), and Minor Globe of Invulernability protects him against any L1-L3 spells before his SR gets to them. He can animate any given number of undead to use as bone shields, and may bring incorporeal or other high ranking undead to help specially (but note that he cannot animate bodies as anything apart from skeletons or zombies, unless he uses specific magical spells to do so - his darklord power allows him to animate ONLY those at will). To take individual enemies out of the battle, Azalin may use repeated Magic Missile castings and then a Power Word, Stun. Various spells mentioned above also have similar uses on the battlefield. Project Image has an additional ability that Azalin can cast spells from the projected image instead of from where he himself is. Although there is no such bonus as "flanking" for spellcasting, it is an effective way of surrounding the enemy and forcing them to defend against magical assaults from multiple fronts. This is also especially useful for getting optimal coverage with area-effect spells. Sometimes undead don't quite cut it. Azalin has Summon Monster spells available, and also he has been known to call in the services of Ebb from time to time (for truly pesky threats that won't stay down). Azalin is no one-trick pony - although his main specialty is undead, he does also have a large number of construct guardians in Castle Avernus (golems and dread guards among them), and he is able to cast Reanimate to bring back a fallen foe as a construct if it's better tactics than bringing them back as an undead. If he's really pressed, he can use Shatter, Disintegrate, or even Disjunction if he really has to to knock out an enemy magical items tank or spellcaster. These might be best used against enemy turning attempts, all of which require the cleric to forcefully present the holy symbol. When the cleric presents the holy symbol, Azalin can cast a spell to destroy it. Azalin prefers to collect magical items, however, and will not use this unless things become dire. Azalin can use Polymorph Other to render individual enemies harmless. (Perhaps even turning them into a shard of bone that he then animates as part of a skeleton... nobody would be able to find that PC unless they had plenty of time or fulfilled what Azalin wanted them to do. Depending on how you want to read the rules of the spell, a bone shard would still be close enough to a human to qualify for permanent polymorphing!) Also, every Ravenloft sourcebook since the 1990 Black Box has said how Azalin loves to let his enemies pick up cursed items that he provides. This has proven difficult, as PCs are pretty canny about what they Identify. However, one insidious use of this personality trait is in the spell Trap the Soul. Azalin could enchant a powerful magical item and leave it lying around for PCs to find. Unknown to them, the item is the trigger for a Trap the Soul spell. Once the targeted PC touches the item, he's sucked into a gem in Azalin's lair, and the PCs are down one character in their party until they can get him back. Combat castings of Trap the Soul are riskier because they allow a Will save, but Azalin can use the real name of the PC and impose a -2 to this... on top of all the hefty Will penalties he can pile on top with other spell effects. (Mind Fog -10, Eyebite -2, Contagion up to -3, Bestow Curse -4, Energy Drain up to -8, etc. etc.). Azalin used to know the spell Symbol but in the change from 3.0 to 3.5, that spell no longer exists. Instead, it has been split up into several Symbol spells. None of these is particular useful for combat, but Azalin could well incorporate this into the "cursed items" trick to soften up the PCs before they reach him. Azalin's Spell Mastery feat highlights some interesting spells. He can burn spell slots to Telekinese enemies (perhaps concentrating on their clothes or armor to drag them into the air and out of the fight). He can Steal Vitality (of limited use in combat), and he can Dimension Door almost at will if he needs to. The fact that he has Scrying and Sending readied means that even if he's away from all his magical items and his lair, he can still spy on his enemies constantly, and can coordinate effectively with his allies (of course, he can do so anyway at will with undead allies, so this would mostly apply to living ones). Finally, in a battle that truly matters, Azalin is very apt to cast Time Stop and then put all sorts of spells into effect, as noted above. The benefit is he can do a whole lot during this time, buffing his allies or protecting himself or even teleporting out entirely. The Spectral Hand and its derivative spells are one possible tree to follow. Another tree is the "hold and pound" variety of wall spells, Black Tentacles, and other area-restrain spells to soften them up for area-attack spells. These do not take effect until the Time Stop ends, but he can still put them in place so they take effect instantly. To prevent enemies from closing, the Hand spells are decent, coupled with Haste to his undead allies so they can engage the enemies further away. Suggested spells: Azalin's spells have long been a grey area in Ravenloft's design. Even in offical adventures, he was given the ability to cast spells that technically he did not possess and his curse would not allow him to learn. Fortunately, in 3rd ed., the makers allowed a quasi-official workaround for Azalin's curse. It is not controverted that he had access to Wall of Force - the spell appears twice in From the Shadows and Roots of Evil at least. Azalin was able to cast Clone in From the Shadows. He was also able to cast Magic Aura, partially so he could fool PCs into picking up cursed weapons. (In Roots of Evil.) In King of the Dead, Azalin had a spell that allowed him to read surface thoughts and delve into memories of victims. This could be reflected by Detect Thoughts or even in the Spell Compendium's Probe Thoughts spell. In I, Strahd: The War Against Azalin, Azalin was able to seamlessly make all pages in Strahd's "Monster Manual" about liches disappear. (These would be pp. 166-168, assuming Strahd had the 3.5 version of the MM.) This suggests he might do well with the Erase and Secret Page spells. Slow and Crushing Despair both offer further penalties to enemy saves, and Crushing Despair replaces the spell Emotion that he has in his spell list (but which no longer exists in 3.5). Enervation is a spell he doesn't have, though he does have Energy Drain. If Azalin is going to use his Spectral Hand, he may as well get various touch attack spells too, like Ghoul Touch, Vampiric Touch, and Touch of Idiocy (the lattermost of which also can reduce Will saves because of Wis damage). Likewise, he may as well get some decent buffs as well, including all the ability score buffs (e.g. Bear's Endurance) and Mage Armor. For somebody who went through as many magical combats as he did in Knurl (according to KotD) it is surprising that he never learned Shield or Mage Armor. Spectral Hand tactics - not just offensive combat! At first glance, Azalin really got shafted in this spell. He has it as one of his spells, but he lacks most of the offensive combat spells that can be delivered by a touch attack. The list of Open Gaming License PHB spells that can be cast through Spectral Hand are: PHB: L0: Touch of Fatigue, Resistance. L1: Endure Elements, Jump, Mage Armor, Protection from Chaos, Protection from Evil,, Protection from Good, Protection from Law. L2: Bear's Endurance, Blur, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Darkvision, Eagle's Splendor, Fox's Cunning, Ghoul Touch, Protection from Arrows, Resist Energy, Spider Climb, Touch of Idiocy. L3: Displacement, Fly, Gaseous Form, Heroism, Magic Circle against Chaos, Magic Circle against Evil, Magic Circle against Good, Magic Circle against Law, Nondetection, Protection from Energy, Tongues, Vampiric Touch. L4: Bestow Curse, Contagion, Polymorph, Remove Curse, Stoneskin. Of these, Azalin only has a few.
The Great Teleportation Debate: Azalin has always had the spell Teleport Without Error (updated to Greater Teleport in 3.5) in his spellbook. He has it in the novels King of the Dead, and Lord of the Necropolis. He has it in the adventure From the Shadows (where he must use it to get into and out of his laboratory, which has no other known entrances except a secret osquip tunnel). His spell list in GazII, SotDR, Red Box, and Black Box all have him listed with TWE in his list. Even the "Azalin the lich" in the old adventure "House on Gryphon Hill" shows him with the spell memorized twice. Balancing against this considerable body of evidence is one single novel written by P. N. Elrod and told from a fallible narrator's viewpoint (i.e. Strahd von Zarovich), which claims that Azalin never had any teleportation magic. This has caused some confusion among players who believe there is no justification for Azalin having access to any teleportation magic whatsoever. It is possible that the author may have searched to see whether Azalin had the spell Teleport (which he does not). Had she then searched to see whether he had the more powerful spell Teleport Without Error, she would have quickly understood that Azalin does indeed have no difficulty casting teleportation magic to get around. In keeping with the GazII exhortation to give Azalin spells that he would reasonably have access to, as well as the GazII listing of TWE as one of his official spells, it's not an unreasonable flight of fancy to say that Azalin does indeed have Teleportation magic available, and that Strahd was either always in the wrong place so he could never observe Azalin using it, OR Azalin was careful to hide it from him during the events of I, Strahd: TWAA. Hopefully this will put this particular debate to rest, either with the ever-handy "DM's prerogative" argument, or preferably with the "Actually, the rules are very clear about this... and Elrod is wrong" argument. |
#3humanbingJul 11, 2007 13:26:54 | Azalin's lich touch One great benefit that a lich has is that spells to immobilize an enemy usually run out... but its lich touch does not. Mortal wizards can hold, cause laughter in, cause dancing in, and otherwise incapacitate enemies, but still need to wrestle with what to do when the spell runs out. For a lich, the paralyzing touch lasts forever until dispelled somehow. Azalin can take captives relatively easily by lowering their saves, and then either magically restraining them for his own lich touch attack, or just wading in and hitting them with the lich touch attack himself. There are two issues that need to be resolved regarding his lich touch. The first is whether it can be channelled through Spectral Hand. 2nd ed. used to have a spell called Lich Touch, which in theory could be channelled through Spectral Hand. If the DM decides to use this mechanic, Azalin then becomes extremely tough. He can cast Spectral Hand and deliver his paralyzing touch at quite a distance. This means he can use ranged spells to temporarily hold his enemies, then send in the Spectral Hand to make it permanent. The second issue is whether he (or indeed any other lich) can use this touch as a healing effect. The touch attack is a negative energy effect, and it's well known that negative energy heals undead. If you follow Libris Mortis, the touch attack would likely heal him 5 hp. If you follow a more literalist reading, then it heals him 1d8+5 hp. This would have to be a standard action, so Azalin could move while doing this but not much else. Metamagic feats Possible candidates for Empowered spells:
I refrain from analyzing spells of a higher level because now we're getting into territory that will drastically reduce Azalin's high-level strategy. One possible spell he may want to buff (depending on the enemy) is Spell Turning, which goes from L7 to L9 and now reflects 10-15 levels of spells instead of 7-10. Heightened Spell candidate: Boost Charm Person to L2 or L3 and make Azalin wear the corresponding Ring of Wizardry. The actual effect in combat is slight, just a +1 or +2 to the DC save, but on top of all the Will save chaos he'll be inflicting, this could tip the tide of battle very easily. The benefits of heightening a spell are slight and as you get higher than L3 you're burning spell slots that Azalin can't really spare. None of his L2 spells is particularly worthwhile to Heighten, and his L4 and higher spells are too valuable to swap out for a lower level spell with only a DC bonus. But ideally, heighten a few Charm Persons to L2, empower a few Magic Missiles or Rays of Enfeeblement to L3, and then make Azalin carry the L2 and L3 Rings into battle to double his spell capacity. (Bearing in mind that they only give him 4 extra spells, not 6. He gets 6 because of Int bonuses and the Rings do NOT double those bonus slots.) |
#4sptjanlyJul 11, 2007 14:15:39 | It looks like if you pick a fight with Azalin, you had better be ready to buy the farm. |
#5kwdbladeJul 12, 2007 3:04:45 | Wow Humanbing, you really must have alot of time on your hands. Its always a pleasure to read your posts.:D There was one inconsistancy I noticed. You said that Azalin himself is not immune to Ray of Enfeeblement, but as far as I know, undead are immune to ability damage. |
#6humanbingJul 12, 2007 8:20:15 | Wow Humanbing, you really must have alot of time on your hands. Its always a pleasure to read your posts.:D Woah, good catch! Monster Manual says undead are immune to ability damage to physical attributes. (And given that liches have immunity to mental effects, this probably means they're immune to most ability drain or damage of any kind.) Thanks, kwdblade. I'm going back to change that. |
#7rolepJul 14, 2007 14:51:06 | Its is true that undead are immune to ability damage but a closer look reveil that ray of enfeeblement is an ability penalty and thus can affect undead! There was a debate about this in one of the game where i played until one player found the rule. |
#8dwarfpcfanJul 14, 2007 16:03:57 | HuMANBing. As usual, you're thoughts are very interesting and I'm writing down you're tips for future use. But me, I don't really need to worry about Azalin's spell list. first since meeting Azalin is a plot device and he's not a specialist wizard, that means he can just have any spell you want as his curse is clearly not an issue for a DM (if the DM says Azalin knew a certain spell before his curse, he knows it Second, I just keep in mind Azalin's personality when using spell. And to me it comes down to this: ruthless efficiency. If someone get's into a fight with Azalin, it's no mercy. Whatever produces the best possible result in the long term and short term is the answer, point and simple. That said I do have an issue about the gear he carries.The way I see it for a mage with incredible skill at crafting magic item and working spells. why the hell is he so under equiped in his suggested stats ?! I like HuManBing spell analysis but I posit that It would be illogical if Azalin did not carry the following gear at all times Rings: Ring of Wizardy4, ring of wizard3 Armor: Robe of the Evil Archmagi Bracers: Bracers of Armor +8 Cloaks: Cloak Resistance +5 Head Gear: Headband of intellect +6 Boots: Boots of Etherealness Weapon: staff of power Essential wands: Wand of scorching ray, wand of displacement, Wand of dispel magic, Scrolls:Scroll of Teleport without error X3, Scroll of Time Stop X2, Scroll of Wail of the Banshee X2, Scroll of Energy DrainX2 Others: Bag of Holding type 3 |
#9kwdbladeJul 14, 2007 17:28:12 | With all those items, his CR would be higher, if not signifcantly so. Remember that NPCs are equipped for their level, not for their character background. Ravenloft is also a rather low-magic item world, and even most darklords only have a +1 - +3 enchantment items. Heck, some of them are lucky to get anything BETTER than a +1 sword!Its is true that undead are immune to ability damage but a closer look reveil that ray of enfeeblement is an ability penalty and thus can affect undead! There was a debate about this in one of the game where i played until one player found the rule. Wow, you're absolutely right! I never noticed that. Thanks for the clarification. |
#10crazymarvJul 14, 2007 18:41:20 | Wow, this must have taken quite some time. Anyway, here's just some thoughts.....Azalin likes to collect all magical items and likely will not risk destroying his foes' magical items unless absolutely necessary. Azalin would likely not like using Disintegrate Actually, if you shoot Disintegrate at someone their equipment is unaffected. It even goes so far as to say it right in the spell description. Although I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be a fan of this use anyway, the reflecting of it for one thing, and because he prefers taking people alive. It can be used to bring down walls of force and forcecages though.... Flesh to Stone is a very useful spell that Azalin would likely use with impunity......The spell description says it affects "creatures", suggesting that it doesn't affect undead (because it doesn't affect objects) but then later in the spell description it says it affects "creatures made of flesh". Undead are arguably fleshy creatures. Undead are still immune. The spell says "only creatures made of flesh are affected by this spell", and even if undead are fleshy (like a vampire of zombie) they are still immune to all effects that allow a Fort save unless it affects objects. Flesh to Stone doesn't affect objects, so they are OK. Ray of Enfeeblement can be entertainingly effective against the party's armored fighter, as Azalin immediately drains 6 Str points and up to 11 depending on roll. Yeah, this sucker is really quite useful for a 1st level spell, but depending on the guy might not be as effective as you might think. A Raging Barbarian will have more Strength than usual and might be lightly armored as well to take advantage of his Fast Movement ability. Even with a -5 to his attack/damage rolls he could still do something like charge and Leap Attack to deal Azalin a world of hurt. Using it on a Cleric is probably all out pointless. Even if he gets the Cleric's strength right to 1 he can still cast spells, and if I were Azalin I'd be more scared of that than him walking around. Black Tentacles (or, in my house alteration, "Grasping Bone-claws") does not allow a save at all, and can be cast to immobilize enemies in a 20' radius. Another great spell, but remember that anyone taking Azalin on will have access to magic as well. A casting of Freedom of Movement before the fight will make them pretty much immune to this whole spell, as well as Paralysis (his touch) and things like Solid Fog and Web. Acid Fog does less damage than Incendiary Cloud, but fewer things are immune to acid than they are to fire. Ah, Acid Fog also has the same affect as Solid Fog to slow people down. Incendiary Cloud doesn't have the ability to hold them in place, so they can just walk out of it. Maze automatically makes an individual disappear for at least a turn, making it good to use on magic users and clerics. Not so great for Wizards (due to high INT), but this can keep a Cleric/Druid/Sorcerer away for a long time most of the time because their Intelligence is not as important as other scores. Almost a guarantee to one-hit them out of the fight. Watch out for them casting spells on themselves and coming back really strong though.... I can't find anything in the rules that suggests that being stuck, trapped, grappled, or held reduces your Reflex save bonus A house rule might say that an enemy in such a situation either fails Reflex saves outright or gets a hefty penalty to them. (It would make sense that they lose any Dex bonus, since that's what formal rules states the effect on their AC is.) The reason it's not in the rules is actually because being stuck, grappled, etc. doesn't affect your Reflex saves. I know it doesn't make much sense, but neither does getting a save for a Fireball in a 10 foot room (where exactly would you be dodging?) and that's how it is. The best way to look at it is that it's a game and certain things would be unbalanced if it worked that way and not put physics into it...... Ice Storm (L4 to L6). If he really needs to punish them, this spell will do the trick. No save, 5d6 x 1.5 damage means 7-45 guaranteed damage. Meh, Azalin is CR what again? I think it's 21, I can't really remember. Anyway, the point is that if I'm using a guy at around level 17-18 or so, 45 damage is not very much at all. I'd like to have Azalin deal me 45 right to the dome than worry about the Fort save from Flesh to Stone taking me right out (also a 6th level spell), or having him use basically any 9th level spell out of any book. Anyway, most of the stuff you mention is all great. One thing you don't really go into that much is the party he might be fighting. He'd likely know a lot about them if they are strong enough to oppose him directly and are coming for him, so almost any kind of tactic the DM uses is believable due to the fact that Azalin is a freakin' genius. But even planning ahead can be botched really quick by the raw power an adventuring group can muster up. A super-typical party of Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard at a level where taking Azalin is actually reasonable will have quite a bit they can do themselves. The Cleric and Wizard are probably both as capable at magic as Azalin himself, the Fighter guy could brutalize him if he gets to charge in first or something, and the Rogue could be using scrolls made by the magic-users with Use Magic Device to a degree that cannot be ignored. Certain spells cast or abilities used before the match can make things difficult for Azalin. A Cleric using Divine Favor, Divine Power, Righteous Might or some combination of these is a scary fighter in his own right who can still cast spells, which can make Azalin sorry he shot down the Barbarian first. A druid Wildshaping can be tough too. Azalin could hit someone with a 9th level Energy Drain and give them half a dozen negative levels, only to have the Cleric use a 4th level Restoration to take them all away. Given that the Cleric lost only a 4th level spell and Azalin lost a 9th level spell, got nowhere, and had to deal with the rest of the party that round is very, very bad for him. To just sit here and come up with counters for everything Azalin can do doesn't really get anywhere, but a party will often be more versatile than he is by himself. One thing though, I'm thinking that Azalin would hate, hate, hate Clerics and probably go for them first. Maze is really good for getting them out of his hair for a few rounds (usually) so he can deal with the others. |
#11rotipherJul 14, 2007 21:01:23 | Wow, guys, this thread has been quite an experience to read. You really have gone into detail about all this. :shock: Any chance you high-level-arcanist experts would lend me a hand with the Nocturnal Sea Survey, and help me decide how big a boost to CR I should give to Meredoth? Technically he's 20th level, but he has the spontanous casting ability of a sorcerer, the huge repertoire and bonus feats of a wizard, and the additional spells/day of a Necromancy specialist. So how much should that double dose of flexibility -- picking spells on the spot and knowing every non-prohibited spell in the freakin' PHB -- increase his CR...? |
#12humanbingJul 14, 2007 22:26:03 | HuMANBing. As usual, you're thoughts are very interesting and I'm writing down you're tips for future use. Yay! :D Glad you like them! Needless to say, I'm a big Azalin fan and I like to think through strategies about him. if the DM says Azalin knew a certain spell before his curse, he knows it Quite right. The GazII even says as much, which makes Azalin's curse perhaps the most open-ended darklord curse for the DM's own interpretation. I only stuck to the spells he knew because for me to analyze every single PHB spell would have taken a very long time. Of course the DM is free to substitute or add spells as he or she needs. Second, I just keep in mind Azalin's personality when using spell. And to me it comes down to this: ruthless efficiency. If someone get's into a fight with Azalin, it's no mercy. Whatever produces the best possible result in the long term and short term is the answer, point and simple. Again, this is entirely true. I had artificially limited myself to the endscene in From the Shadows, where Azalin purposefully wanted the PCs to win against him in combat, but he also wanted (as a point of personal pride) to kill as many of them before going down in a blaze of glory. [Azalin's equipment] The scroll issue is very wide open, and the GazII also says the DM should give Azalin whatever magical items would fit him. (In fact I'm thinking of opening a new thread to detail the sort of cool stuff you might find in Azalin's castle, Avernus, or in his underground treasury, the Black Vault.) Bear in mind that my analysis took into account the fact that Azalin was planning to be killed by the PCs. In this case, he would not be carrying important magical items with him. If Azalin does bring important magical items with him, then it's a very bad sign for the PCs because he then clearly intends to win. Azalin knows if he loses, the PCs get his magical items, even if he reforms via his phylactery. In fact, as you so rightly point out, the most important magical items for him are scrolls. Give him enough scrolls of various important spells, and he can pretty much steamroller most parties. (The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that would get through that would be a party with an Anti Magic Field.) But like you say he should have access to a whole arsenal of magical items. They just leave it to your imagination what he has. (It's also possible, though I'm not entirely certain, that the game designers calculated Azalin's magical items in his profile by using the DMG's gp wealth by CR tables. This would result in an abnormally high amount of magic for his Ravenloft CR, but an abnormally low amount of magic for his backstory, which states that he makes loads of magical stuff all the time.) [i]f you shoot Disintegrate at someone their equipment is unaffected. It even goes so far as to say it right in the spell description. You're right - I had gotten this confused with the 2nd ed. version of the spell, which destroys anything carried by the target as well as the target. [Flesh to Stone]Undead are still immune. I agree with you completely in this respect. [Ray of Enfeeblement]A Raging Barbarian will have more Strength than usual and might be lightly armored as well to take advantage of his Fast Movement ability. Even with a -5 to his attack/damage rolls he could still do something like charge and Leap Attack to deal Azalin a world of hurt. Good point. Using [Ray of Enfeeblement] on a Cleric is probably all out pointless. Even if he gets the Cleric's strength right to 1 he can still cast spells, and if I were Azalin I'd be more scared of that than him walking around. Clerics tend to be heavily armored and carry weaponry almost to the same degree as fighters. (A characterization that I'm not very fond of... I think of clerics as more like wizards but casting divine spells. But I don't make the rules, sadly...) Because clerics often are second-rank fighters in equipment and armor, they likewise are encumbered if they get hit by the Ray of Enfeeblement. Only if a Cleric wore no heavy armor at all would this be useless... and of course Azalin would know this ahead of time and prepare something else.. remember that anyone taking Azalin on will have access to magic as well. A casting of Freedom of Movement before the fight will make them pretty much immune to this whole spell, as well as Paralysis (his touch) and things like Solid Fog and Web. Very true. Azalin should keep several scrolls of Dispel Magic at hand, because that is one situation where he will very likely have the upper hand - in a dispelling contest. [Maze] Not so great for Wizards (due to high INT), but this can keep a Cleric/Druid/Sorcerer away for a long time most of the time because their Intelligence is not as important as other scores. Almost a guarantee to one-hit them out of the fight. Watch out for them casting spells on themselves and coming back really strong though.... Good points about the other spellcaster classes being more vulnerable. My original idea was that this spell would really hit the fighter-types harder, but that observation makes Maze much more versatile. The reason it's not in the rules is actually because being stuck, grappled, etc. doesn't affect your Reflex saves. I know it doesn't make much sense, but neither does getting a save for a Fireball in a 10 foot room (where exactly would you be dodging?) and that's how it is. The best way to look at it is that it's a game and certain things would be unbalanced if it worked that way and not put physics into it...... I don't dispute anything you say here. I just thought people might like to know my house rule for it. (And you've been much more polite about my house rule than the people in the main Wizards forum - some of whom have a knee-jerk reaction of apoplectic hostility whenever anybody mentions anything not 100% supported by the rules.) Meh, Azalin is CR what again? [He's 23 - HMB] ...if I'm using a guy at around level 17-18 or so, 45 damage is not very much at all. True, with caveat. This analysis was done for the adventure From the Shadows, where PC levels are 9 to 12. An empowered Ice Storm (if you overlook the anachronism that empowered feats are 3rd edition and the adventure is 2nd edition) would very likely threaten the party's spellcasters with near-death. If Azalin is using area effect spells, chances are that he's aiming to soften people up (perhaps for a Power Word spell, which is hp-reliant) or that he's hoping to finish off some lower-level mercenary or allied help (such as summoned monsters). He might be using this against NPCs freed from the cells in Avernus, in the adventure. I'd like to have Azalin deal me 45 right to the dome than worry about the Fort save from Flesh to Stone taking me right out (also a 6th level spell), or having him use basically any 9th level spell out of any book. Well... Ice Storm hurts multiple people, no save. (Death possible, damage guaranteed.) Flesh to Stone petrifies one person, save allowed. There are upsides and downsides to both spells. Azalin would be flexible enough to use either as the need arises, especially if he has a scroll case by his side. One thing you don't really go into that much is the party he might be fighting. He'd likely know a lot about them if they are strong enough to oppose him directly and are coming for him, so almost any kind of tactic the DM uses is believable due to the fact that Azalin is a freakin' genius. Again, absolutely true. In fact, in the original thread in the Fraternity of Shadows forum, somebody then went on to tell me their PC party and ask me for fun tactics to use against them. (And by fun I don't mean "kill them all within two rounds of combat". I mean "Azalin wants to scare them, then pulverize them, then make them fight for dear life, then give them a seeming victory back from the brink".) The [L17 or 18] Cleric and Wizard are probably both as capable at magic as Azalin himself, True. Azalin's major advantage would likely be in a very large scroll or magic item collection if he needs it. Even the most powerful PCs of L17 or 18 will not have the sort of resources at their disposal as Azalin does, and he's had centuries to prepare scrolls. With a series of prepared misleading illusion spells and buff spells, Azalin could stay at a distance indefinitely casting spell after spell from scrolls, while his unending hordes of undead keep the PCs at bay. Even the most powerful PCs will run out of scrolls and memorized spells much faster than Azalin will. Bear in mind that From the Shadows is an adventure for a party of level 9 through 12. If you see tactics that don't work so well against high-level enemies, then that's the reason why. I was analyzing for a lower level crowd. the Fighter guy could brutalize him if he gets to charge in first or something, This is probably more true if you allow the Tome of Battle rules, which really buff up the martial classes' abilities. I haven't playtested that as much as before so I can't comment on how that works against spell defenses. (As a preliminary measure, I do know that there are maneuvers that will ignore DR, which is handy!) But even the most powerful of fighters is in big trouble if Azalin gets Time Stop off in time. And if combat starts with Azalin 120' away, the fighter has a serious challenge on his hands. (Yet another variable that the DM can control to make it as challenging or as easy as s/he needs it to be.) Certain spells cast or abilities used before the match can make things difficult for Azalin. And vice versa, of course. The tactics you mention are all perfectly valid and a canny DM should take them all into account, especially if the party has done that before in Avernus during the adventure. (Remember, Azalin has eyes everywhere in Darkon, and nowhere moreso than his own castle!) One thing though, I'm thinking that Azalin would hate, hate, hate Clerics and probably go for them first. This is ringing a very faint bell. I need to re-read King of the Dead but I believe that novel has a bit about Azalin not liking clerics and temples while he is on Greyhawk. I wish I could remember more. If this is true, then it adds further impetus to your strategic observation by adding a compelling historical antipathy too. |
#13kwdbladeJul 15, 2007 2:32:34 | Keep in mind that, if we are using 3.5 rules that is, that restoration takes a whopping Three rounds to cast now !! Of course, all this negative levels and death spells could be stopped by a Death Ward spell, but of course, Azalin could probably dispel that like a cantrip. All in all, I think HumanBing has covered all the bases. I would definately be interested in seeing future Darklord strategies and tactics. |
#14crazymarvJul 15, 2007 9:06:13 | Bear in mind that From the Shadows is an adventure for a party of level 9 through 12. If you see tactics that don't work so well against high-level enemies, then that's the reason why. I was analyzing for a lower level crowd. Wow, I was not familiar with that adventure, so I never knew that the party would be level 12. That would be a massacre...but it is true that a lot of what you said would be much more effective in a scenario like that. Because clerics often are second-rank fighters in equipment and armor, they likewise are encumbered if they get hit by the Ray of Enfeeblement. Only if a Cleric wore no heavy armor at all would this be useless... and of course Azalin would know this ahead of time and prepare something else.. Right, but if a Cleric were wearing Full Plate and using a Tower Shield and had his Strength taken all the way to 1 he can still cast his spells with no penalty at all. I'm thinking Azalin would find this to be worse than the Cleric attacking him, so would probably not try it at all. If the Cleric were an appropriate level for fighting Azalin, his next action could be to shoot Mass Heal at him, not good. Very true. Azalin should keep several scrolls of Dispel Magic at hand, because that is one situation where he will very likely have the upper hand - in a dispelling contest. Well, if the scenario is like the adventure and what you based this all on, then yeah. Where I'm coming from is guys who are stronger, and in that case it wouldn't be as one-sided. Also, Dispel Magic tops out at +10, he'd need Greater Dispel to get his 18th level ability behind it. But even the most powerful of fighters is in big trouble if Azalin gets Time Stop off in time. And if combat starts with Azalin 120' away, the fighter has a serious challenge on his hands. Well, a guy with 1 level in Barbarian (for the Fast Movement), medium armor and a Haste effect on can charge 120 feet. Using Shock Trooper and Leap Attack can do a lot of damage by itself, not including Strength (Raging here) or magic. I actually don't have Tome of Battle, and I have never read anything from it, so I can't really say anything about it. Basically, I was just bringing up that Azalin can't totally ignore the fighter-type. And vice versa, of course. The tactics you mention are all perfectly valid and a canny DM should take them all into account, especially if the party has done that before in Avernus during the adventure. Yeah, that's what I meant before about him being a frickin' genius. He should know that they are coming and their standard behavior in battle by the time they get there. If I were a player going against Azalin himself, I would automatically assume that no matter what I do, he knew it might happen and have a plan in place. It might seem like the DM is....cheating or something, but you're a fool if you don't know that Azalin would be prepared 8-ways-from-Sunday for this. This is ringing a very faint bell. I need to re-read King of the Dead but I believe that novel has a bit about Azalin not liking clerics and temples while he is on Greyhawk. I wish I could remember more. If this is true, then it adds further impetus to your strategic observation by adding a compelling historical antipathy too. Hey, right on. An actual reason for Azalin to hate Cleric-y types is great. Now it wouldn't seem like the DM is picking on the Cleric for no good reason! Keep in mind that, if we are using 3.5 rules that is, that restoration takes a whopping Three rounds to cast now !! Heh, heh, heh.....oops. Well, the idea behind what I was saying is that a lot of high level things can be reversed/stopped by lower level spells, and Azalin has to look out for that. I should have actually looked for an example rather than just knee-jerking something out..... All in all, I think HumanBing has covered all the bases. I would definately be interested in seeing future Darklord strategies and tactics. Me too! This has been great. You always hear of people wanting to take Azalin or Strahd, lets do someone that's not as popular for fighting next. Like, what would Ivana Boritsi do if a group of level 10 heroes came looking for trouble? Or even stronger? |
#15humanbingJul 15, 2007 11:55:48 | If Azalin is facing one person and has a lot of time on his hands, or otherwise just wants to make a point: 1. Flesh to Stone 2. Rock to Mud 3. Mud to Rock 4. Stone to Flesh :D |
#16emjaysmashJul 18, 2007 10:54:47 | If Azalin is facing one person and has a lot of time on his hands, or otherwise just wants to make a point: Ok, so just imaging that in my head might be fun enough, but: assuming that the subject gets his/her whole body turned to stone, then that stone is tranformed to mud, the mud wouldn't be able to hold, thus falling to the ground. Then the reverse happens, but with the body now a lump on the ground. so at the end of it all, wouldn't the PC resemble a nice cowpie? |
#17humanbingJul 24, 2007 14:24:21 | Ok, so just imaging that in my head might be fun enough, but: assuming that the subject gets his/her whole body turned to stone, then that stone is tranformed to mud, the mud wouldn't be able to hold, thus falling to the ground. Then the reverse happens, but with the body now a lump on the ground. so at the end of it all, wouldn't the PC resemble a nice cowpie? If cowpies were fleshy, sporting random bits of hair here and there, and desperately thinking "Help!" (because they can't talk, you see), then yes. |
#18humanbingJul 30, 2007 0:29:14 | This is apropos of nothing in particular, but I see that Wizards is releasing a book called Exemplars of Evil in September, which will showcase memorable villains for any DnD campaign. It also has a lich on the front cover. Part of me idly wonders how cool it would be if they found a way to include Azalin in that book. Well, a Ravenloft fan can dream. *sigh* |
#19kwdbladeJul 30, 2007 0:59:58 | Its probably silly old Vecna... But we can dream. |
#20dwarfpcfanAug 01, 2007 11:41:09 | Its probably silly old Vecna... Yeah probably, but I still say that Azalin is the coolest lich ever created... |
#21kwdbladeAug 06, 2007 2:47:39 | This is apropos of nothing in particular, but I see that Wizards is releasing a book called Exemplars of Evil in September, which will showcase memorable villains for any DnD campaign. While Azalin may not be featured, apparently Strahd is (at least according to the preview, if I read it right). The lich on the cover might also be Acererak. |
#22humanbingAug 06, 2007 8:59:02 | Acererak, eh? I thought he was a Vestige, which is arguably the least powerful thing you could possibly be, because it's a terribly obscure and tangential thing to summon, listed only in a terribly obscure and tangential supplement rulebook (Tome of Magic) :P I think the lich is more likely to just be the standard anonymous Monster Manual lich. |
#23humanbingSep 25, 2007 19:46:23 | A very late addition. The Book of Erotic Fantasy has two spells that you should definitely think about giving Azalin. The first is Block the Seed, which makes the recipient completely unable to reproduce. Women are unable to bear children, men are unable to impregnate women. Those of you who know Azalin's stormy relationship with his wife Olessa, and her treacherous dealings with unscrupulous spellcasters, will know why Azalin is familiar with this spell. The second is Spell Meld, which is potentially game breaking for Azalin. It allows him to meld his spell list with any willing spellcaster. He has a method thus of sidestepping his curse... for a while. |
#24highpriestmikhalSep 25, 2007 21:05:15 | Somehow I don't think the Dark Powers would be so kind regarding Spell Meld. It's more likely the other caster might have access to Azalin's spells, but as soon as Azalin tries to cast a spell he doesn't have, it just slips right out of his mind. Or he might get the spell off once before it's lost to him forever, even if he Melds with the same caster or someone else who knows it. That would really increase his frustration. Plus that close of mental contact to a darklord would certainly call for a Madness save. That, at least, is my take on it. And yeah, I'd think he knows Block the Seed. Maybe even Fiendish Seed or something like it. He did clone himself in the wombs of many Darkonian women. |
#25humanbingJan 24, 2008 9:36:52 | Another very late update. A nice tactic for spellcasters anywhere near water, but especially nice for the endgame of "From the Shadows" (which takes place near a river in Nevuchar Springs). 1. Cast Scorching Ray, Flaming Sphere, Incendiary Cloud, Fireball, or any other spell that sets the PCs on fire. 2. PCs jump into river to put out the flames. 3. Cast Lightning Bolt into the river. |
#26kwdbladeJan 25, 2008 15:03:49 | What exactly are the rules for lightning bolt and water? I don't see them under the spell description, are they in the DMG? |
#27humanbingJan 25, 2008 18:34:19 | I believe there are no hard and fast rules. If you like quick and fast rules, there is some (at times obnoxiously rude) discussion about this in the Magic and Spells subforum here. I'd be tempted to say something like extending the damage to all enemies within a certain radius of the bolt's epicenter in water. Effectively it would give the lightning bolt an area of effect. 10' or 15' radius should be more than enough to make this quite threatening. |
#28sptjanlyJan 25, 2008 19:53:04 | I think its no save is allowed while in water and all in the water with in a reasonable distance take damage no matter the area effect of the spell or natural bolt. |
#29crazymarvFeb 01, 2008 16:37:31 | Another very late update. Actually, none of the spells listed have the additional effect of catching people on fire. Any spell that does will list it in the description. Also, being on fire isn't actually that bad unless you're a low level, it's only 1d6 damage a round, and you can make a Reflex save to extinguish it from yourself.....much easier than running around to jump into water, then swimming back out. I'm thinking most players would just hope to pass the reflex save on their turn and continue to attack, rather than waste their actions fleeing their opponent and jumping into a vulnerable position. I would, if you are fighting Azalin you have a lot more to worry about.... Now, the Lightning spells into water....I have always heard that there is no extra effect at all. If this troubles you, the thing you have to remember is that it is created by magic and is not subject to the normal laws of physics. The spell always takes effect as written in the description unless the spell itself states otherwise that it works different under certain circumstances or there is an existing rule for it. There is no such existing rule, and the spell doesn't have any ruling on this itself, so the spell takes the normal effect as written in it's description (60ft line, damages those that the line itself touches). I'm thinking that if there is a ruling on this somewhere, it would probably be Stormwrack. |
#30kwdbladeFeb 01, 2008 19:49:24 | By the strictest rules of D&D, any effect that creates a fire effect has the potential to light you on fire as long as you have some kind of flammable material (and most PCs have cloaks and such). The reflex save to put yourself out is a full round action. And the lightning thing is creative DMing. |
#31humanbingFeb 02, 2008 8:46:14 | Like I said above...I believe there are no hard and fast rules. This is just an idea. Use it if you like it, leave it if you don't. |
#32crazymarvFeb 03, 2008 8:32:55 | By the strictest rules of D&D, any effect that creates a fire effect has the potential to light you on fire as long as you have some kind of flammable material (and most PCs have cloaks and such). The reflex save to put yourself out is a full round action. And the lightning thing is creative DMing. You're right to a degree here. Under "The Environment" section of the DMG it says that characters exposed to various things may catch fire. It also lists in the example of what can catch you on fire "noninstantaneous magical fire". The next line goes on to say that spells like Fireball don't normally do this. So, normal people shot by a Fireball under normal circumstances won't catch fire. If Azalin were to arrange for the PCs to be flammable in some way, then this would work. Also, the Reflex save to put out fire isn't a Full-round action. It says under the same section about being on fire that if you are exposed to something that will make you catch fire that you get a DC 15 Ref to avoid it. If you fail you are on fire and take 1d6 damage immediately. Each round after that you MUST make the save again or take 1d6 damage, if you pass then the fire goes out. Period. There is nothing about a Full-round action listed there. You probably have it confused with Alchemist's Fire, which does require a Full-round action to extinguish. But that's not a "normal" case of being on fire, it's a function of the Alchemist Fire itself. Even the rules about rolling around for Alchemist's fire are different, and only actually lasts 1 round, instead of forever until something is done about it. I've also seen spells that do catch people on fire that have different rules for how to extinguish yourself, but that's a function of the spell, not the base rule. The Lightning Bolt thing is basically the DM making up an effect, and most people are likely to accept electricity kicking the crap out of them while they're in the water. I was just saying the ruling I've always heard because someone asked what the rule was. |
#33humanbingFeb 03, 2008 9:55:48 | This was the Magic & Spells thread I'd been thinking of. I've since edited my earlier posts to reflect this. Hope this helps. |