Meredoth's CR? (For Rotipher) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Meredoth's CR? (For Rotipher)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
humanbing
Jul 15, 2007 11:02:24 Rotipher posted this question in the "Azalin's spell tactics" thread, but it looked like it was in danger of sinking without trace there, so I put it here for us to analyze separately.

Rotipher;13074040 wrote:
#2
rotipher
Jul 15, 2007 16:15:06 Well, there's two main reasons I thought his free-form casting could warrant a boost to CR, that goes beyond the issue of whether a wizard villain knows to prepare for what the PCs have to throw at them:

1) Bonus spells/day. Normally, a specialist's extra spells are locked down to a single school, which means that if the PCs are shielded from that particular school's effects (death ward, mind blank, etc) they've effectively shut down a sizeable fraction of the specialist's daily arsenal. However, with the ability to pick spells on-the-fly, Meredoth could select bonus spells which bypass their defensive measures (e.g. if opponents are all under death ward, he doesn't lose the benefits of his 9th level spells, he just changes tactics and soul-binds a slain PC so he can teleport away with a hostage). There's a reason why the core rules only make specialization an option for wizards, not sorcerers; an extra spell/day is potentially far more valuable to the latter, even if it's Necromancy-only.

2) Counterspelling. Meredoth is THE counterspelling machine, when you think about it. Even Azalin probably has to set a few of his spells aside to intercept other wizards' magic -- sometimes with spells he'd not otherwise wish to carry -- and a sorcerer's repertoire is too narrow to expect one to counter more than a fraction of PCs' spells. But Meredoth could stop nearly any arcane spell his unliving minions are vulnerable to in its tracks, allowing him to stand in the back ranks and casually snuff out PCs' spells while his undead and golems go on the offensive. Sure, his prohibited schools (Enchantment and Illusion) might affect him personally, but mind blank takes care of most of that problem, leaving divine casters his only major concern once he's out of 6th level slots for greater dispel magic.
#3
thanael
Jul 17, 2007 4:02:51 You probably best post this question on the more technical Epic boards or better yet on dicefreaks.
#4
The_Jester
Jul 19, 2007 9:41:26 Hrm, but he would only have the number of spell slots as a wizard not the increased slots of a sorcerer.
Sorcerers get spontaneous casting, limited spells and more spells per day.

Really, that's a rather unbalanced and rule-breaking idea. There's a reason it's not in any other books.

Why does he have/need spontaneous casting?
It might be better if it was limited to a floating slot or two that could be cast spontaneously with the majority of his spells being prepared.

CR though... Well, as you started, lets look at the effects:
* Counterspelling. Big but not huge as no one does this and no worse than the Improved Counterspell feat. A couple judicious uses of dispel magic work just as good.
* Always having the right spell for whatever the party's tactics. But as the DM you should already know these.
* Spontaneous metamagic. This is alright but sorcerers can't ever use Quicken Spell as spontaneous metamagic always takes a full round to cast. And there's a great advantage in dropping two spells in a round. And there's much more likely a chance to be interrupted with spontaneous metamagic.
* Multiple castings. This is the big one. They make their saves, fine. Just cast it again next round. A good sorcerer can just keep hammering with what works.

Of course, high level combat lasts long but the number of rounds is small. It seems like a big advantage on paper but Mere is only likely to last 5 or 6 rounds of continual pounding so he's never going to exhaust all his spells.
The longest he will last is if he blows 1/2 his spells on party specific buffs and preparation spells (mage armour, shield, false life, couple protection from energys, contingency, etc). He'll be able to tailor-pick his spells but, really, there's only ever 2 or 3 that really fit the likely situation.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 humanbing Jul 15, 2007 11:02:24	Rotipher posted this question in the "Azalin's spell tactics" thread, but it looked like it was in danger of sinking without trace there, so I put it here for us to analyze separately. Rotipher;13074040 wrote:
#2 rotipher Jul 15, 2007 16:15:06	Well, there's two main reasons I thought his free-form casting could warrant a boost to CR, that goes beyond the issue of whether a wizard villain knows to prepare for what the PCs have to throw at them: 1) Bonus spells/day. Normally, a specialist's extra spells are locked down to a single school, which means that if the PCs are shielded from that particular school's effects (death ward, mind blank, etc) they've effectively shut down a sizeable fraction of the specialist's daily arsenal. However, with the ability to pick spells on-the-fly, Meredoth could select bonus spells which bypass their defensive measures (e.g. if opponents are all under death ward, he doesn't lose the benefits of his 9th level spells, he just changes tactics and soul-binds a slain PC so he can teleport away with a hostage). There's a reason why the core rules only make specialization an option for wizards, not sorcerers; an extra spell/day is potentially far more valuable to the latter, even if it's Necromancy-only. 2) Counterspelling. Meredoth is THE counterspelling machine, when you think about it. Even Azalin probably has to set a few of his spells aside to intercept other wizards' magic -- sometimes with spells he'd not otherwise wish to carry -- and a sorcerer's repertoire is too narrow to expect one to counter more than a fraction of PCs' spells. But Meredoth could stop nearly any arcane spell his unliving minions are vulnerable to in its tracks, allowing him to stand in the back ranks and casually snuff out PCs' spells while his undead and golems go on the offensive. Sure, his prohibited schools (Enchantment and Illusion) might affect him personally, but mind blank takes care of most of that problem, leaving divine casters his only major concern once he's out of 6th level slots for greater dispel magic.
#3 thanael Jul 17, 2007 4:02:51	You probably best post this question on the more technical Epic boards or better yet on dicefreaks.
#4 The_Jester Jul 19, 2007 9:41:26	Hrm, but he would only have the number of spell slots as a wizard not the increased slots of a sorcerer. Sorcerers get spontaneous casting, limited spells and more spells per day. Really, that's a rather unbalanced and rule-breaking idea. There's a reason it's not in any other books. Why does he have/need spontaneous casting? It might be better if it was limited to a floating slot or two that could be cast spontaneously with the majority of his spells being prepared. CR though... Well, as you started, lets look at the effects: * Counterspelling. Big but not huge as no one does this and no worse than the Improved Counterspell feat. A couple judicious uses of dispel magic work just as good. * Always having the right spell for whatever the party's tactics. But as the DM you should already know these. * Spontaneous metamagic. This is alright but sorcerers can't ever use Quicken Spell as spontaneous metamagic always takes a full round to cast. And there's a great advantage in dropping two spells in a round. And there's much more likely a chance to be interrupted with spontaneous metamagic. * Multiple castings. This is the big one. They make their saves, fine. Just cast it again next round. A good sorcerer can just keep hammering with what works. Of course, high level combat lasts long but the number of rounds is small. It seems like a big advantage on paper but Mere is only likely to last 5 or 6 rounds of continual pounding so he's never going to exhaust all his spells. The longest he will last is if he blows 1/2 his spells on party specific buffs and preparation spells (mage armour, shield, false life, couple protection from energys, contingency, etc). He'll be able to tailor-pick his spells but, really, there's only ever 2 or 3 that really fit the likely situation.