Now that's the kind of thing I see for Dark Sun! ;)
The fight in series 2 when the collegium's attack Pullo and the Avantines, and Pullo bites the guy's tongue out...haha omg!! THAT is a Dark Sun style fight :D
The lack of armour, "dirty deeds done dirt cheap", devastating criticals...
-To my mind, Athasians should almost never go around with armour on, it's just too damned hot, no amount of "modification" will get away with that. So unless you're in a city, or an argosy, amrour = a big no no, and that affects battle. Even in a city/argosy, it's gonna be too damned uncomfortable to wear armour for long:
-Arena fight, sure, short n' sweet.
-Guard duty, are you kidding? You'd fry!
Even back in 2nd ed, nobody went round with more than studded leather in my games unless there was vital need.
-Shields aren't as bad though of course.
Fights will be short, brutal, and the equivalent of "alpha strikes" (devastating all out first strikes) become logical, as unlike more "normal" D&D, long slogging matches aren't likely.
i.e. power attack, sneak attacks/feint/bluff, poison etc.
Rome's political dirty deeds were also sweet DS fare. Other topics alas are too salubrious for these boards but when life is short and cheap...I can see it in DS too!
Seaon 1 had the gladiator fight sorta. People do wear armor in deserts. It might be hot an uncomfortable but its better than no armor. Romans, Crusaders, Byzantines all wore in in North Africa/Middle East.
-Romans had their armour in wagons and only donned when expecting battle, for the desert campaigns, and the flankers had leather but were rotated frequently to prevent heat stroke.
-Crusaders died like flies in the first Crusade. Patrols/battles were fought in cool of morning or evening. Defenders loved nothing better than attackers charging at noon day...
-Etc. thus heat is a very big no-no for armour useage, Athas or anywhere else. Note the DMG's rules even note that. I don't like the idea that Athasians can have armour and not be troubled by this, it flies in face of game logic. Sure, they've adapted to heat, but the heat's worse than we have here on Earth...they can't ignore it anymore than we can.
-I'd imagine each "guard station" in a town would have an awning or shade of some kind, with water and a slave. The men would be rotated often. Roaming patrols couldn't wear armour, except where they used spells (so it's possible for a Templar in charge of a squad), or it is cool.
-So, this would also actually aid templars, because of their spell casting, they'd be one of the few groups able to have armour protection, without being made ill by it.
-Death from heat stroke would be more worry than a knife in the ribs ;)
Anyway, back to Rome, yeah that gladiator fight was AWESOME! oooh, nasty, hehe.
-Slaves in Rome could own money and their own slaves, if their master's permitted, and thus could buy their freedom, again if their master permitted. Also, wills could state if slaves were to be freed, not usual occurance though far as I know.
-Slaves in Rome for a long period were not like later African slaves under European "chattel slavery" post 1500 or so. They did have some rights but not much, however they were seen as too useful to treat badly by most folk, and they could earn freedom and even citizen satus.
1) Defeated armies were enslaved for a period of years and then incorporated into the winners culture (Once you beat 'em, make 'em join you). They could eventually buy their freedom, or be freed after a certain amount of time.
2) As a way to pay off debt. You could sell yourself into slavery for a period of 7 years to pay off debt. This was seen as a legitimate way to handle debt that got out of control, and it was typical for slaves to be released when a new king or queen took the throne.
Yes and how many died or were injured from heat stroke? Seriously, it is a killer, least 1 british soldier has died from that that I know of.
-Romans had their armour in wagons and only donned when expectign battle, for the desert campaigns, and the flankers had leather but were roatated frequently to prevent heat stroke.
-Crusaders died like flies in the first Crusade. Patrols/battles were fought in cool of morning or evening. Defenders loved nothing better than attackers charging at noon day...
-Etc. thus heat is a very big no-no for armour useage, Athas or anywhere else. Note the DMG's rules even note that. I don't like the idea that Athasians can have armour and not be troubled by this, it flies in face of game logic. Sure, they've adapted to heat, but the heat's worse than we have here on Earth...they cna't ignore it anymore than we can.
-I'd imagine each "guard station" in a town would have an awning or shade of some kind, with water and a slave. The men would be rotated often. Roaming patrols couldn't wear armour, except where they used spells (so it's possible for a Templar in charge of a squad), or it is cool.
-So, this would also actually aid templars, becaus eof their spell casting, they'd be one of the few groups able to have amrour protection, without being made ill by it.
Death from heat stroke would be more worry than a knife in the ribs ;)
Anyway, back to Rome, yeah that gladiator fight was AWESOME! oooh, nasty, hehe.
-Slaves in Rome could own money and their own slaves, if their master's permitted, and thus could buy their freedom, again if their master permitted. Also, wills could state if slaves were to be freed, not usual occurance though far as I know.
-Slaves in Rome for a long period were not like later African slaves under European "chattel slavery" post 1500 or so. They did have some rights but not much, however they were seen as too useful to treat badly by most folk, and they could earn freedom and even citizen satus.
The point being armor was worn. Some peopel seem to have the impression if you walk outside you must make an immediate saving throw or keel over from heat exhaustion which isn't quite the case.
Series 2 was good. Made me wonder if there was a way for a slave to buy their freedom or earn it upon the masters death.
Seaon 1 had the gladiator fight sorta. People do wear armor in deserts. It might be hot an uncomfortable but its better than no armor. Romans, Crusaders, Byzantines all wore in in North Africa/Middle East.
I wear Body armor all the time here in the Middle East. just lots of water and look for shade
Our soldiers are wearing armor in Iraq, and it reached the 130's F. this year...
it will reach 140+ here Netherek, you just try to deal with it
Well I never said or meant that kind of thing
Just no way you'd WANT to wear armour on Athas for any length of time without shade/water/short duration.
Galek,
You have my sympathy mate, and hope all is ok for ya!
But, imagine you're a town guard or adventurer...is wearing armour worth the risk of heat stroke?
A tmeplar cna use Endure Elements, and laugh at the peons roasting in the heat...now that's another way they'd have power: able to wear heavier armours without so much trouble.
-Folk forget, for much of their life, adventurers, towns folk, templars etc do not get attacked, but heat stroke is a real, almost constant danger.
-Hence my suggestion that guard posts in town, like gates, which have to have a serious military presence, would have shade, water, rotations and probably a slave waving a fan or the like ("Punkawallahs").
While I can see that ipmrovements in armour would occur, at the end of the day, weairng amrour shouldn 't be a common sight, hm?
Pullo ROCKS!
Feel bad for Vorenous, sigh. But Mr Pullo, definate barb/fighter...Vorenous is the better tactical fighter (hence he was a centurion and Pullo wasn't), but Pullo's just absolute mayhem, haha! :DDamn shame they cancelled series 3, sigh, been one of the few decent bits of TV in ages.
PS
sorry for typos earlier.
it will reach 140+ here Netherek, you just try to deal with it
That's pretty hot, I have heard the Sahara reaching the upper 130's of which I thought was the upper limit for temperater. It's gotta suck, you have my admiration.
How much water do you consume a day? If you don't mind my asking...
I don't really see Pullo as a barbarian though. He doesn't rage as such like a berzerker.
Only when he's drunk, or he finds out his girl's getting married to someone else. That slave lasted about five seconds..........:D
Only when he's drunk, or he finds out his girl's getting married to someone else. That slave lasted about five seconds..........:D
Anyone can lose their temper though. Doesn't make him a Barbarian.
Netherek, i appreciate it, yes, we are seeing 125, but it will start climbing soon. I drink about 11 bottles of water per day. roughly 3-5 Litres. you learn the ins and outs of travel and living here. but i do miss temp below 100 degrees. I want to work on some things while i'm here. I only brought a few DS accessories with me; city of Tyr, Dune Traders, and Slave tribes. maybe add something with the desert in mind. any suggestions?
I don't really recommend Sandstorm, it's somewhat overpriced compared to it's relative value though it does have some useful content.
Otherwise I think you have everything you would need.
The lack of armour, "dirty deeds done dirt cheap", devastating criticals...
-To my mind, Athasians should almost never go around with armour on, it's just too damned hot, no amount of "modification" will get away with that. So unless you're in a city, or an argosy, amrour = a big no no, and that affects battle. Even in a city/argosy, it's gonna be too damned uncomfortable to wear armour for long:
-Arena fight, sure, short n' sweet.
-Guard duty, are you kidding? You'd fry!
Even back in 2nd ed, nobody went round with more than studded leather in my games unless there was vital need.
-Shields aren't as bad though of course.
I run my Dark Sun campaigns the same. People donning armor get frequent checks for heat injury -- It just is fundamentally dumb. Modern armor can't even begin to compare, because modern body armor is designed to breathe -- something modern materials can offer but medieval-type materials couldn't. Even so, modern armor is not worn constantly in the desert, only when in a combat zone, and when expecting combat. It also does not cover the whole body.
Even leather, which can breathe, is problematic in a desert environment. There is a significant increase in the amount of heat buildup an individual will have, as well as perspiration and therefore rapid dehydration (plus, in the armor, once you perspire, it could potentially get cold, and you can suffer a whole new slew of effects depending on the situation). Basically, it just is not a smart move to be wearing armor constantly. I do cut down on those who are only wearing bits of armor (piecemeal) rather than a full suit, because piecemeal armor tends to be incomplete and has typically ways to provide for ventilation.
Fights will be short, brutal, and the equivalent of "alpha strikes" (devastating all out first strikes) become logical, as unlike more "normal" D&D, long slogging matches aren't likely.
i.e. power attack, sneak attacks/feint/bluff, poison etc.
That's what I use the Vitality Points/Wound Points system for -- it can potentially make fights *very* short
I run my Dark Sun campaigns the same. People donning armor get frequent checks for heat injury -- It just is fundamentally dumb. Modern armor can't even begin to compare, because modern body armor is designed to breathe -- something modern materials can offer but medieval-type materials couldn't. Even so, modern armor is not worn constantly in the desert, only when in a combat zone, and when expecting combat. It also does not cover the whole body.
Even leather, which can breathe, is problematic in a desert environment. There is a significant increase in the amount of heat buildup an individual will have, as well as perspiration and therefore rapid dehydration (plus, in the armor, once you perspire, it could potentially get cold, and you can suffer a whole new slew of effects depending on the situation). Basically, it just is not a smart move to be wearing armor constantly. I do cut down on those who are only wearing bits of armor (piecemeal) rather than a full suit, because piecemeal armor tends to be incomplete and has typically ways to provide for ventilation.
That's what I use the Vitality Points/Wound Points system for -- it can potentially make fights *very* short
How do you ancient armor didn't breathe or be more comfortable than is assumed. People often underestimate the cleverness of pre industrial humans.
Kinda like the Pyramids. How did they do that? Or we couldn't build them with modern technology. Its amazing what one can build with a huge labout pool and 20-30 years.
How do you ancient armor didn't breathe or be more comfortable than is assumed. People often underestimate the cleverness of pre industrial humans.
Kinda like the Pyramids. How did they do that? Or we couldn't build them with modern technology. Its amazing what one can build with a huge labout pool and 20-30 years.
I'm not saying that ancient civilizations weren't clever. Just that historically, looking at the civilizations that existed on Earth with similar technological levels as fantasy settings have, armor didn't breathe -- protection of the wearer was more important than comfort. But for the record, I do not believe that civilization is really "advancing" -- necessity is typically the mother of invention, meaning that we have what we have now technologically mostly because of necessity (warfare tends to be the father of invention lol). Taking that concept and running it backwards, I'd say that through history, the further back you go, the lower the technology could very well be representative of a lack of need for that technology, not a lack of capability to develop it.
1) Athas, or any D&D campaign is not Earth! this is a handicap we can't get over. We have our viewpoints based on centuries of our own civilization and species. Dwarves with 20,000 years of a totally different mindset and abilities could achieve things we couldn't, and visa-versa.
-The world's are different, who knows what exotic things may exist, biologically or otherwise.
2) Magic, psionics and other weird stuff allows possibilities waaaay different from ours.
So, I{'m not aversed to the idea of Athasians devloping things for use in thier climate and tehc levels, like say, chitin armour that's not as uncomfortable in the heat.
However. You have game balance, and game ethos to think about.
It's much more fun to say "Athas is DIFFERENT, wearing armour will kill you, so wearing armour continually is a BAD idea, without magic"
This also helps reinforce the ferocious heat of Athas, the difference of it from the Forgotten Realms etc.
-It also makes the game play different, as said, players have to think "smart" more than think "gear > all"
Also, just becuse one gorup has "armour that doesn't fry you", doesn't mean that EVERYONE will, because folk like keeping secrets,knowledge is power, he who can make cool armour has power. Hence, as I said, templars simple ability to freely cast low lvl magic means they can wear armour around town to protect themselves from homicidal citizens.
Scale mail and breastplates of chitin or other such material would really be the heaviest you'd ever see, worn by afore mentioned templars.
One type of armour I had in my games was "silk armour", light, cool, but very expensive. No spell failure, +2 AC bonus. Made from exotic, dangerous vermin. That would be NOBLE'S armour.
"THIRTEEN! THIRTEEN!"