Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Brom_Blackforge Aug 20, 2007 10:16:14	I'm kind of surprised that there hasn't been any discussion of this in this forum yet. (Maybe nobody's coming here anymore....) I haven't heard anything one way or the other, but the end of the Living Greyhawk campaign certainly suggests that Greyhawk won't be the core setting in 4th Edition - something that has long been rumored. I've heard it suggested that Greyhawk had to be left alone - couldn't be licensed out, for instance - because it was the core setting and because of LG. If both of those things drop out of the equation, is that a good thing? Or is this more like WotC turning off the life support? (Yes, yes, I know we'll always be able to make our own stuff and there will always be fan-produced stuff. But is that all there will ever be now? Was "Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk" the last hurrah?)
#2 Brom_Blackforge Aug 20, 2007 10:19:44	Well, maybe I spoke too soon. I see there's been some discussion in this thread.
#3 mortellan Aug 20, 2007 12:27:52	http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2712&sid=c6ad4946c2fd83195ce44e1756eb749d Tons more discussion here.
#4 zombiegleemax Aug 20, 2007 17:23:04	If it has been dropped as the core setting, and if LG is ending, Greyhawk has become RPG's most elligible bachelor.
#5 maldin Aug 20, 2007 22:16:51	If it has been dropped as the core setting, and if LG is ending, Greyhawk has become RPG's most elligible bachelor. ... with a mother who has locked him away in the cold-cellar (and banned him from ever seeing his sweet girlfriend Paizo again). Denis, aka "Maldin" Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
#6 zombiegleemax Aug 21, 2007 0:04:36	... with a mother who has locked him away in the cold-cellar (and banned him from ever seeing his sweet girlfriend Paizo again). Denis, aka "Maldin" Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com He'll find a way to sneak out. Can't stay locked up forever.
#7 pauln6 Aug 21, 2007 6:40:20	... with a mother who has locked him away in the cold-cellar (and banned him from ever seeing his sweet girlfriend Paizo again). Denis, aka "Maldin" Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com I for one will remain loyal. I understand that they don't want to dilute their fan base by producing too many game worlds (that is the excuse isn't it?). Mind you, that was the beauty of LG - WotC didn't have to produce anything and we (with Paizo) just took care of ourselves. I know many fans of the other settings will make the other game worlds worth WotC's while. Humans are a feckless bunch (not as bad as elves though) and many will swap over just to keep playing. I just wont be one of them.
#8 zombiegleemax Aug 21, 2007 10:03:33	I guess you guys have probably seen the link for the new online Dungeon mag. I am not a fan of this, but it is what it is. Here's the info about a Greyhawk product there. Welcome to the future home of Dungeon Magazine! Starting in October, this is your destination for the best in D&D adventures. Here’s a taste of what’s coming in issue #151: Iggwilv’s Legacy: The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth By Edward Albert, Ari Marmell, and C.A. Suleiman One of the most ambitious projects to ever hit Dungeon, the classic 1st Edition module is freshly updated to D&D 3.5. Plus, the adventure features a new prelude and a follow-up adventure that takes the PCs to Tsojcanth’s lair. Hell’s Heart By Nicolas Logue The three-part Eberron adventure series that began with “Chimes at Midnight” in issue #133 and continued with “Quoth the Raven” in issue #150 concludes in this chilling visit to Sharn’s sanitarium. A final showdown is brewing in the dark, depraved depths of the asylum, and if the PCs aren’t up to the task, the chaos inside the walls of Hell’s Heart could erupt to engulf the city. Plus, Dungeoncraft, Save My Game, and even more! In the mean time… Check out Dungeon #150, on stands now. Check out the contents at paizo.com.
#9 zombiegleemax Aug 21, 2007 12:03:28	Looks like Greyhawk is truly dead. Long live Canonfire!!!
#10 Brom_Blackforge Aug 21, 2007 15:18:40	Here’s a taste of what’s coming in issue #151: Iggwilv’s Legacy: The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth By Edward Albert, Ari Marmell, and C.A. Suleiman One of the most ambitious projects to ever hit Dungeon, the classic 1st Edition module is freshly updated to D&D 3.5. Plus, the adventure features a new prelude and a follow-up adventure that takes the PCs to Tsojcanth’s lair. I'm kind of surprised that they're actually making an effort to get us old grognards interested in their digital initiative. And why can't they just publish that kind of thing in an honest to God book? (I'd even settle for softcover....)
#11 maldin Aug 21, 2007 16:16:26	I'm kind of surprised that they're actually making an effort to get us old grognards interested in their digital initiative. I recognize Ari's name there. He's done some good work that I've liked alot. Alas, I don't see the stable of WotC writers going to the Greybeards to fact-check canon and review their Greyhawk articles before publishing like certain other publishers of Greyhawk content did in the past. Until I see each article in the new "mags", I'll be very dubious of the compatibility and accuracy of the Greyhawk content. Tsojcanth is a particularly terrible morass of problematic canon issues that very few people have a good handle on. Its an awefully tough one to jump into right off the bat. Denis, aka "Maldin" (a Greybeard from way back, and both official and unofficial reviewer to many products - any other writers out there, feel free to contact me) Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
#12 mightytev Aug 29, 2007 10:17:25	I'm kind of surprised that they're actually making an effort to get us old grognards interested in their digital initiative. And why can't they just publish that kind of thing in an honest to God book? (I'd even settle for softcover....) Print it if you want to see it in print! I love the updated modules in Dungeon, hopefully D&Di will continue to feature them (especially Greyhawk ones...).
#13 Brom_Blackforge Aug 29, 2007 13:25:47	This article on the D&D website (quoted below) sounds like the 4E default setting. I can't say this is how I generally think of Greyhawk, though. Does it sound like Greyhawk to you? The Dungeons & Dragons game assumes many things about its setting: The world is populated by a variety of intelligent races, strange monsters lurk on other planes, ancient empires have left ruins across the face of the world, and so on. But one of the new key conceits about the D&D world is simply this: Civilized folk live in small, isolated points of light scattered across a big, dark, dangerous world. Most of the world is monster-haunted wilderness. The centers of civilization are few and far between, and the world isn’t carved up between nation-states that jealously enforce their borders. A few difficult and dangerous roads tenuously link neighboring cities together, but if you stray from them you quickly find yourself immersed in goblin-infested forests, haunted barrowfields, desolate hills and marshes, and monster-hunted badlands. Anything could be waiting down that old overgrown dwarf-built road: a den of ogre marauders, a forgotten tower where a lamia awaits careless travelers, a troll’s cave, a lonely human village under the sway of a demonic cult, or a black wood where shadows and ghosts thirst for the blood of the living. Given the perilous nature of the world around the small islands of civilization, many adventures revolve around venturing into the wild lands. For example: Roads are often closed by bandits, marauders such as goblins or gnolls, or hungry monsters such as griffons or dragons. The simple mission of driving off whomever or whatever is preying on unfortunate travelers is how many young heroes begin their careers. Since towns and villages do not stay in close contact, it’s easy for all sorts of evils to befall a settlement without anyone noticing for a long time. A village might be terrorized by a pack of werewolves or enslaved by an evil wizard, and no one else would know until adventurers stumbled into the situation. Many small settlements and strongholds are founded, flourish for a time, and then fall into darkness. The wild lands are filled with forgotten towers, abandoned towns, haunted castles, and ruined temples. Even people living only a few miles away from such places might know them only by rumor and legend. The common folk of the world look upon the wild lands with dread. Few people are widely traveled—even the most ambitious merchant is careful to stick to better-known roads. The lands between towns or homesteads are wide and empty. It might be safe enough within a day’s ride of a city or an hour’s walk of a village, but go beyond that and you are taking your life into your hands. People are scared of what might be waiting in the old forest or beyond the barren hills at the far end of the valley, because whatever is out there is most likely hungry and hostile. Striking off into untraveled lands is something only heroes and adventurers do. Another implication of this basic conceit of the world is that there is very little in the way of authority to deal with raiders and marauders, outbreaks of demon worship, rampaging monsters, deadly hauntings, or similar local problems. Settlements afflicted by troubles can only hope for a band of heroes to arrive and set things right. If there is a kingdom beyond the town’s walls, it’s still largely covered by unexplored forest and desolate hills where evil folk gather. The king’s soldiers might do a passable job of keeping the lands within a few miles of his castle free of monsters and bandits, but most of the realm’s outlying towns and villages are on their own. In such a world, adventurers are aberrant. Commoners view them as brave at best, and insane at worst. But such a world is rife with the possibility for adventure, and no true hero will ever lack for a villain to vanquish or a quest to pursue.
#14 zombiegleemax Aug 29, 2007 15:27:18	Sounds like they're moving from medieval high fantasy to the dark ages.
#15 ripvanwormer Aug 29, 2007 21:29:02	Well, that is Greyhawk to an extent. It's been noted before that the human and demihuman population of the Flanaess is almost ridiculously small compared to that of Europe during the middle ages - that leaves plenty of room for vast swathes of monster-haunted wilderness. The Flanaess is divided into nation-states, of course, but the borders aren't always jealously guarded (they are on the borders of Iuz and the Pomarj, but not usually elsewhere). That said, they've made it clear that the "default world" isn't Greyhawk, so the question of exactly how wild and monster-haunted the Flanaess is remains a separate question. Really, it depends on your personal tastes.
#16 ranger_reg Aug 30, 2007 2:27:36	I'm kind of surprised that there hasn't been any discussion of this in this forum yet. (Maybe nobody's coming here anymore....) I haven't heard anything one way or the other, but the end of the Living Greyhawk campaign certainly suggests that Greyhawk won't be the core setting in 4th Edition - something that has long been rumored. Many vocal supporters wished D&D core rulebooks to be all about the rules; no default setting. Personally, I find that disrespectful. Just because D&D rules can be used in any campaign, you can't forget its root in Greyhawk.