Assuming a new version of Dark Sun for 4E is possible, how would you like to see it done? Feel free to present your ideas.
Mike
Dark sun is a franchise with a great potential. I suggest a couple of minisiers of comic. Why not trying it?
The problem is DS is too "small" for the last novelties (PCs races, class, incarnum, monsters..)
Can DS fans forgiving a "reboot" of this setting? I don´t know. I suggest two books, one Player handbook of Dark Sun (with gladiator base class) 100% rules, and other title Guide of Arthas, with 100% background and nothing of rules (feats, spells nor prestige class).
Other option is a MMORPG based in Arthas.
Give us Dark Sun just after psionics come back to the game.
Give us Planescape at the same time as a new Planar Handbook.
I think Dark Sun perfectly fits the 'points of light in darkness' theme that's supposed to be the default for 4th.ed. I'd really love to see its return.
I'd agree with this, and it also seems to me that some of the other things we've heard about 4dventure seem to also work well for DS (less magic items, better options for unbalanced races, etc).
Jack
I would guess that all the threads other than FR and Eberron are to test the waters. Honestly I would love to see, at least, a HC campaign setting for all the old favorites. After all, the Dragons with the Dark Sun and Planescape 3.5 updates SOLD OUT, so why wouldn't they update them in a more stable format? Maybe 4E will be more like old times than originally imagined!!
Hm ... they have said that they will be testing things out in DnDInsider, so I could well imagine them giving more space (esp. for freelancers) to develop that kind of material in the online world, and if it is succesful they might just bring out a book. I personally would prefer that to one-off stabs at trying to get something right and then more silence ...
I'd agree with this, and it also seems to me that some of the other things we've heard about 4dventure seem to also work well for DS (less magic items, better options for unbalanced races, etc).
Jack
Although I'm a fan, I wouldn't exactly describe DS as better balanced, although magic had a different feel. I do think the setting has a lot of potential in terms of it having integrated psionics (something that I feel FR never properly managed), low-tech (very much unlike Ebberon really) is kind of refreshing but would require a lot of attention to create as many equipment options as say the MIC. I think overall if I understand what they said about roles this could have advantages for bringing back Arthas.
And yes, a slightly less cheerful setting is always nice.
The look of Brom´s art is all a classic.
Dark sun is a franchise with a great potential. I suggest a couple of minisiers of comic. Why not trying it?
The problem is DS is too "small" for the last novelties (PCs races, class, incarnum, monsters..)
Can DS fans forgiving a "reboot" of this setting? I don´t know. I suggest two books, one Player handbook of Dark Sun (with gladiator base class) 100% rules, and other title Guide of Arthas, with 100% background and nothing of rules (feats, spells nor prestige class).
Other option is a MMORPG based in Arthas.
they could make it bigger, and have unexplored areas. If I remember correctly the world was not once desert, and some magical force made it into a desert.
If that is correct then, there could be civilizations that were wiped out, but I don't rememeber how long ago that happened. I was just beginning to play when I was thrown into 3ed
However, I doubt this will be rendered in eventual conclusion. The question of "what if there was another city" will always occur and become popular as a question until design follows desire into enlargening the breadth of the fantasy game world.
While Dark Sun could be a "small city in the belly of deadly wilds" with all NPC thoroughly fleshed out, described, and understood, with every street and building mapped and well detailed, the wilderness almost abyssal in its dangers, an open sky dungeon of unpredictable power, a thousand pages might not prove sufficient for some players. Still a city, even a small city, can prove a challenging training ground. Dangerous and many might be the mercenaries and assassins, magic of any sort might draw diseases (by defilers) and insanity (through psionics) into the city itself with dangers of inadvertantly summoning terrifying monsters (by clerics), or reducing the efficiacy of magic in an area either temporarily or permenantly (by preservers).
Of course, just in case a person bought this game with their last leisure dollar and has little else to spend, with the conundrum that they prefer gentle and happy fantasy, optional rules should be presented such as "periods of grace" when psionics and magic do not cause extra harm and the wilds are not quite so deadly, where many a city prospers therein, within the light of a dark and strange sun.
I'd agree with this, and it also seems to me that some of the other things we've heard about 4dventure seem to also work well for DS (less magic items, better options for unbalanced races, etc).
Jack
You know that example character in the Character Visualiser demo did have a half-dwarf look about him ;)
Darksun was not really a small world, it was only given details of a small part of it. In the 2nd Edition revised version of Darksun they began to expand beyond the boundries of the city states detailed in the original. the main reason for it being smaller than most was because travel in Darksun was harsh and survival away from a major city for more than a few weeks was suicidle for traders and common folk.
Since we know that new campaign settings are going to be published every year, is there any chance that Dark Sun might get updated by WotC?
Give us Dark Sun just after psionics come back to the game.
If, as speculated, psionics will appear in the 2009 Player's Handbook, then Dark Sun could be 2009's featured updated campaign setting alongside a new one, if there is a new one.
If, as speculated, psionics will appear in the 2009 Player's Handbook, then Dark Sun could be 2009's featured updated campaign setting alongside a new one, if there is a new one.
Sorry, 2009 is Eberron according to all the WOTC posts. I'll bet on 2011, right after Dragonlance in 2010 and just before Planescape in 2012.
ap
The power source bit does make the idea of a 4e DS sound promising. The athasian arcane power source is rather unique.
Sorry, 2009 is Eberron according to all the WOTC posts. I'll bet on 2011, right after Dragonlance in 2010 and just before Planescape in 2012.
Well, I don't know if Dragonlance will be kept by Sovereign Press, and maybe Planescape will be integrated into the basic campaign in the Core rulebooks (as was loosely in the core 3.5e books) and/or later expanded. So we don't know how when, but if we are really lucky 2010! :D
That's hoping that we don't get a 4.5e in 2011
And maybe the campaign setting could include much more of the world. But I hope they don't mess things up as in the 2e where after 5 novels the compaign had changed significantly [killing major NPCs such as Kalak and Borys], even though the second boxed set of the setting was very nice (not to mention the Dragoth boxed set, we want that too!)
Another vote for DarkSun 4th ed.
Can't wait to recreate my psychotic ½elf psionic assasin (damn - he's 16 years old.....)
Well, I don't know if Dragonlance will be kept by Sovereign Press
WOTC revoked the license for Dragonlance around the same time as Paizo's license to make Dungeon/Dragon magazines. It will return to WOTC Jan 2008, according to Sovereign Press.
http://www.gamespy.com/articles/819/819068p1.html
i didnt buy the dragon mag stuff
It was pretty decent actually. The downside is they "updated" the world. I, for some uknown reason, HATE that. Basically, I have been using the new rules set and then I have the original box set for setting. It seems to work well enough.
I really would like to see a 4e set of rules come officially from WotC in hard back form and given the same treatment as The Realms and Ebberon. I'd like to see the same treatment for Dragonlance (my other favorite setting) as well.
My biggest fear regarding this though is that it will be an "insider" only ebook or someother BS that will be some substandard type of rewrite to get it out solely to keep fans quiet and that it won't recieve the attention it so rightfully deserves.
I really would like to see a 4e set of rules come officially from WotC in hard back form and given the same treatment as The Realms and Ebberon. I'd like to see the same treatment for Dragonlance (my other favorite setting) as well.
My biggest fear regarding this though is that it will be an "insider" only ebook or someother BS that will be some substandard type of rewrite to get it out solely to keep fans quiet and that it won't recieve the attention it so rightfully deserves.
Look up three posts. sorry
I would like to see Athas on 4th edition.
I seem to recall from reading the Dark Sun Novels that...
SPOILER
Athas was formed by a magical "apocalypse" that turned a lush green world, like say, Forgotten Realms, into a big desert. Could this be the direction they are going with the re-release of Forgotten Realms and the reuniting of Aber-Toril?
Over the years, Athas has been undergoing a harsh environmental disaster with no end brought about by uncontrolled magic use.
It was at one point a lush green world, but it is not the same as FR.
You get my vote for Dark Sun.
But the Polyhedron article worked too hard to reset the setting back to what it was before the Prism Pentad novels. Though I liked that they did try to explain Elan and Maenads in the setting.
I know I'm rather mixed about what I want and don't want for the setting.
The guys at athas.org have done a wonderful job updating the game to 3.5, but it would be great if Wizards put out something official.
When you opened the box, you could almost smell the odour of sand and dust;)
As stated in other post.. I really would like to see at least one book of these settings for the 4e:
1. Dark Sun HC
2. Planescape HC
3. Ravenloft HC
And ofcourse the forgotton Realms will be the new "greyhawk" standard D&D world.
PS: Make the planescape setting compatible to really exist all these worlds.. So if the players really want they can include all these settings via the planescape world philosophy.
We started out in a little village, not far from where Elminister sometimes drinks a good dwarven stout... later on we would find ourselves in the huge city of Sigil.. yes.. we went through that secret and old.. portal.. But now.. the rich peasant wants us to journey to an old castle.. deep in the misty hills of Ravenloft.. Well.. I hope me and my brothers will survive this epic journey.. Maybe if I live.. I will one day find myself in a desert tavern in the distant lands under the Dark Sun..
See you around fellow adventurers.. Everyday.. we can prevail the evil spirits of the world.. For me I mostly use my longbow.. and many other times my Spirit Sword.. as in "The words spoken by truth"
-Vizz Duskwood- Ranger..
*ahem*
WOTC has stated REPEATEDLY that FR is NOT the default setting, but that RPGA Living Greyhawk will be replaced with Living Forgotten Realms. AND they have indicated (as I posted before) that the "less-popular" settings (like Dark Sun) will most likely be updated via DnD Insider.
What did you say?
I just post.
What did you say?
scroll up about half a page
I dont have time to read all of the threads that are posted. What threads do you suggest we read so we can be up to date on the latest news?
I like hearing other peoples opinions on Darksun. Its nice knowing that other people enjoyed it as much as I did and want it to return like I do.
Thank you everyone for posting here!!
Well, I havent seen any of those posts. I knew about FR and Greyhawk, but not the, as you put it, "less popular ones".
I dont have time to read all of the threads that are posted. What threads do you suggest we read so we can be up to date on the latest news?
I like hearing other peoples opinions on Darksun. Its nice knowing that other people enjoyed it as much as I did and want it to return like I do.
Thank you everyone for posting here!!
First, there is an interview link I posted that said the "less popular" settings will be updated on DnD Insider and may not see print. Secondly, there is a link in my sinature that goes to enworld where they have compiled every scrap of information from WOTC on 4E from official articles to blogs by the ones working on it. It has ALL the information known so far and they update it everyday.
Hope that helps
In the long run we're just a network of about 50-55 people but that at least adds to the list of people that want to see a unique world reborn.
That being said I unfortunately never got to read the 3.5 "updates" so I don't know how they changed the setting after the last published trilogy.
They could always fast forward the world like RPGA intends for FR, but I speak from ignorance of what is currently going on. Is any of the updated material published online?? If so can someone please pm the link I'd really appreciate it.
That being said I unfortunately never got to read the 3.5 "updates" so I don't know how they changed the setting after the last published trilogy.
They moved the timeline forward some ridiculous amount and basically set back all the changes made by the Prizm Pentad. It's not nearly as bad as it sounds; however, since the world basically became the post "Freedom" setting again, but with a few names changed.
I would kill an entire race of demihumans just to have an updated 4E Dark Sun.
I would kill an entire race of demihumans just to have an updated 4E Dark Sun.
Like gnomes? Oh just wait the Shadow King of Nibenay already did that.
I played and DM'd in that world for a few years, and it is by far my favourite - unusual races, integrated psionics, harsh landscapes, 'godless', and a real twist on magic.
The athas.org crew did a great job. I'd pay for a hardcover Dark Sun book from Wizards in a second. Online updates are 'ok', but hard copy would be so much better (I'm looking at you, Dragon and Dungeon Magazines).
Anyone know of a PbP Dark Sun campaign looking for players?
I always liked the Dark Sun setting because it was different. It wasn't a "Generic Fantasy Setting," but rather Post-Apocalyptic D&D.
Fun stuff. I would love to see at least a HC Dark Sun release.
Ethan
The only thing I would like to see with regards to Dark Sun is for it to start back to its original point in the timeline. After a certain point in the timeline, the desperation and hostility of the world seems to fade.
That's a good point, and I agree, except that I would be happy with a free Tyr.
That's a good point, and I agree, except that I would be happy with a free Tyr.
See, I could not do that. I would have to need Tyr in as miserable of a state as the rest of the city-states and still under the yolk of the sorcerer-king.
See, I could not do that. I would have to need Tyr in as miserable of a state as the rest of the city-states and still under the yolk of the sorcerer-king.
Eh, I think the campaign works fine either way. With Tyr free, though, you're offered a bit of hope in the heroes' ability to make the world a better place, and one of the major themes Tim Brown and Troy Denning were going for was a setting where your characters could impact a significant change for the better.
Of course, with Tyr under the yoke of Kalak or some other sorcerer king (and I'd prefer the latter; no retconning away the Pentad), your players don't have that inspiration and haven. Of course, even a free Tyr isn't much a haven from the terrors of Athas.
No, but I'll deny it!
Well I can confirm one of the original Dark Sun designers (Troy Denning) as saying it was supposed to be a fantasy world meets Road Warrior/Mad Max.
IIRC, someone may have described Athas as being LIKE FR in the future, but I haven't read anything that said they are the same place.
Do you know who that someone was?
I heard one of the meta-plots of Dark Sun (Athas) was that it was Forgotten Realms (Toril) in the future, can anyone confirm this?
Dark Sun's timeline makes it pretty clear that Athas is most definitely not Toril or Oerth or Krynn or any other setting published by TSR. The setting has its own history and origin story dating back thousands upon thousands of years.
There was a time in Athas's history (the Green Age) where the world was very similar to more "mundane" D&D settings, with standard Dwarfs, Elves, Gnomes, etc, but that age ended with the rise of Rajaat and his champions.
There was a time in Athas's history (the Green Age) where the world was very similar to more "mundane" D&D settings, with standard Dwarfs, Elves, Gnomes, etc, but that age ended with the rise of Rajaat and his champions.
And there was the previous age (the Blue Age) when there was a blue sun and the only humanoids were psionic Halflings who grew their cities, right?
And there was the previous age (the Blue Age) when there was a blue sun and the only humanoids were psionic Halflings who grew their cities, right?
Yup. The Wanderer's Chronicle says that the Blue Age ended when the psionic Halflings corrupted the sea in a misguided attempt to increase the amount of life it could sustain.
The Wanderer's Chronicle says that the Blue Age ended when the psionic Halflings corrupted the sea in a misguided attempt to increase the amount of life it could sustain.
Oh yeah, I remember that, and was Rajaat a human, or some kind of unique creature (the Pristine Tower etc) – I seem to remember a description of him having 3 nostrils?
And before Rajaat found defiling magic, wasn't the Green Age of Athas kind of like your standard fantasy world (Toril, Oerth etc) but with psionics instead of magic?
Oh yeah, I remember that, and was Rajaat a human, or some kind of unique creature (the Pristine Tower etc) – I seem to remember a description of him having 3 nostrils?
And before Rajaat found defiling magic, wasn't the Green Age of Athas kind of like your standard fantasy world (Toril, Oerth etc) but with psionics instead of magic?
I think Rajaat was supposed to be a Pyreen, but really messed up looking instead of a paragon of natural beauty. He had three nostrils for sure, and a few other deformities on top of that.
And yeah, the Green Age was similar to a "standard" D&D world, but with psionics instead of arcane magic (divine magic may or may not have worked; there's conflicting accounts of the gods of the green age). The City by the Last Sea (Saragar, I believe) is a relic of this age and its culture.
(divine magic may or may not have worked; there's conflicting accounts of the gods of the green age).
Yeah, there was always conflicting information on gods and Athas - in one product they would state that gods have never been a part of Athas, and in another product they would describe an altar to an ancient abandoned god…?
Yeah, there was always conflicting information on gods and Athas - in one product they would state that gods have never been a part of Athas, and in another product they would describe an altar to an ancient abandoned god…?
There was never a conflict over whether or not the people of the Green Age had gods. They worshiped a variety of gods, and it's not anachronistic for the players to find a temple or altar to one. The conflict has always been whether or not those gods were real and granted divine spells to their priests.
The conflict has always been whether or not those gods were real and granted divine spells to their priests.
Uh, yeah, that's what I was talking about…
So, do you have any answers to the god conundrum of Athas?
I terms of how I ran a Dark Sun campaign, the power an elemental priest gained actually can from an Elemental Lord in from one of the elemental plans. The elemental lords could shape the raw power of their plan and grant it to their devout disciples. .. The way I different this is that the elemental lords are weaker than god per se and have greater vested interested in the powers they grant. This was just one way of looking at it.
Plus, Kreen. Who doesn't love kreen?
It's my favorite campaign - I'm running a darksun game for five of my friends right now, and they're having a blast running "errands" for one of Nibenay's wives.
I don't like the prism pentad, however - good books, to be sure, but changing the campaign world that drastically, and then integrating all that into the official timeline was a bit of a stretch, so I play all my DS games before the prism pentad.
For anyone who's still using the Dragon articles, athas.org has done a really good job of bringing Darksun into 3.5. And yes, the exotic weapons are still completely off the hook.
Also...someone mentioned a mmorpg for Darksun....I would love this.
http://dso.zidev.com/history.html
:invasion: :pile:
I think it would be nice to have a low-fantasy setting in contrast to Eberron and Forgotten Realms.
edit woohoo 1000 posts
Yeah, wait until 4e psionics get the kinks out before attempting Dark Sun - it's more psionic than Sarlona. I'd love to see it, and base it just before the Prism Pentad.
I think that's unlikely. Any future Dark Sun setting is likely to advance the storyline further. One thing I fear, though, is that in line with the prevailing design philosophy WotC will feel compelled to offer all options in every setting and will consequently introduce things like Paladins in Dark Sun and so on.
BTW: I would like to see the revival of some sorcerer-kings and a return to greater hopelessness in 4E Dark Sun.
I like DS and I think it's a good opportunity to set up other books for the same release time.
Give us Dark Sun just after psionics come back to the game.
Give us Planescape at the same time as a new Planar Handbook.
Seconded. Dark Sun is a wonderful setting, and I'm sure many people would buy it (that's what WotC wants to hear, right?
). I, for one, would buy it, definitely!One thing I fear, though, is that in line with the prevailing design philosophy WotC will feel compelled to offer all options in every setting and will consequently introduce things like Paladins in Dark Sun and so on.
Like they did with the 3.5 issue of Dragon magazine…?
Yes, that bothered many of us.
It's far the best D&D setting with Planescape.
Like they did with the 3.5 issue of Dragon magazine…?
Yes, that bothered many of us.
I did not get the magazine, so I do not know the details of what happened, but I did get the vibe that most fans of Dark Sun were not enthused.
I did not get the magazine, so I do not know the details of what happened, but I did get the vibe that most fans of Dark Sun were not enthused.
This, to me, is the biggest obstacle to WotC redoing Dark Sun, especially if they want to do it right. WotC's philosophy, thus far, has been one of inclusion, while I've always felt that Dark Sun worked by excluding certain staples of D&D. Dark Sun shouldn't have paladins-- it's not how the world was designed. But, I imagine, WotC will want characters to have th option to play a paladin if they so choose, and the written source material won't appeal to the older fans.
This is a similar complaint to those that FR fans are having right now-- WotC will alter the setting to make it more accessable to a wider audiance. Despite the fact that I probablly wouldn't approve of those changes, I'd gladly accept them if only they'd publish the setting. Who knows what they'll do.
it brings the Points of Light idea to a whole new level, because those points are that much pointier. :D
And they have pointy birds…I make you my nointy…
Athas.org has been officially sanctioned by WotC to produce any and all Darksun updates.
Where are these official updates for 3.5e that everyone is talking about? I see the ones on www.athas.org, but where are the 'official' ones?
In Dragon and Dungeon magazine – but many people were not happy, myself and the writer of the article (David Noonan) included.
…Paladins on Athas…
I do't know if anyone's mentioned this yet, but I just saw, on Amazon, that WotC is planning on reprinting Troy Denning's The Verdant Passage in the fall. Does this mean that they are exploring a new interest in Dark Sun, do you think?
I did not know that. That's certainly interesting information!
The 3.5 books brought alot more detail to environment hazards (Sandstorm and even Stormwrack - altered slightly to represent the Silt Sea) that livened my personal campaign up and gave them a few more challenges. I'm hoping alot of these details won't be lost for sake of faster play!
If Wizards makes it... I'll definately buy it.
And speaking of the art perspective, I wouldn't mind them keeping the old DS style, none of the flashy, 2D Eberron art that seems to be swallowing 4e.
Just keep that Baxa hack away from Dark Sun and I will have hope.
The DS novels were my first introduction to DS, before I even realized it was related to D&D. I read all of Prism Pentad, Tribe of One, the Chronicles... that setting just always stuck with me as a great, unique, and interesting setting.
Please please bring this setting back. Only problem is, I doubt it will happen without toning down the themes that I love. I doubt they'd be willing to keep the slavery and dark nature of it for a retail product.
Just keep that Baxa hack away from Dark Sun and I will have hope.
You do realize that the early art work for DS was both from Brom and Baxa don't you?
You do realize that the early art work for DS was both from Brom and Baxa don't you?
Of course, and his substandard art was almost enough to put me off the setting.
Of course, and his substandard art was almost enough to put me off the setting.
I think that pretty sad that Art seems to be factor in determining what you like to play when it really doesn't impact the game at all, except give something to look at when you aren't playing.
I think that pretty sad that Art seems to be factor in determining what you like to play when it really doesn't impact the game at all, except give something to look at when you aren't playing.
…Almost – I was obviously exaggerating (I refuse to use the word hyperbolic), and you know this…
But I can appreciate what you're trying to do.
If it is brought back to life in 4E, I hope they set it back to the state of affairs at the opening of the campaign world - before the Prism Pentad adventures occur.
Of course, and his substandard art was almost enough to put me off the setting.
how about that awesome art in the original D&D white box set? ;)
(I think my favorite was the drawing of the efreet)
I myself totally skipped 2nd ed, forgotten realms, DS, Dl etc. I started playing again 3 years ago and just got through with a year long F Realms campaign (awesome) and we are getting ready to start a DS campaign... cant wait!
Unfortunately, my stab at running a Dark Sun campaign ended horribly, but I love the setting.
If it is brought back to life in 4E, I hope they set it back to the state of affairs at the opening of the campaign world - before the Prism Pentad adventures occur.
Just wondering why? So you can redo Freedom and Road to Urik, etc? Or you don't like the way the setting progressed at the end of Cerulian Storm? Or do you want to take it and move in your own direction?
I'm not trying to say that post Prism Pentad is better than pre Prism Pentad, but I am curious as to why you want to go back?
Just wondering why? So you can redo Freedom and Road to Urik, etc? Or you don't like the way the setting progressed at the end of Cerulian Storm? Or do you want to take it and move in your own direction?
I'm not trying to say that post Prism Pentad is better than pre Prism Pentad, but I am curious as to why you want to go back?
I don't know about Stormonu, but I personally didn't like a couple of changes they did after the Prism Pentad. Part of it was because most of the Sorceror-Kings died in a relatively short span, which, I felt, took away a lot of the Dark Sun feel. I was fine with Tyr being a free city, but did every other city-state have to do the same? Also, I liked the Dragon, and I thought they got rid of him far too quickly.
You would have then a sort of-yet not reboot. Same world, different perpective.
I don't know about Stormonu, but I personally didn't like a couple of changes they did after the Prism Pentad. Part of it was because most of the Sorceror-Kings died in a relatively short span, which, I felt, took away a lot of the Dark Sun feel. I was fine with Tyr being a free city, but did every other city-state have to do the same? Also, I liked the Dragon, and I thought they got rid of him far too quickly.
I have to agree. I liked what I read of Andropinis prior to his banishment in the Black by Rajaat. He was one of my favorite sorcerer kings.
However, the death of Tektuktulay, whom I had completely forgotten about, and Abalach-Re didn't bother me so much. Especially when I learned that eventually, King Tek is replaced by his "son," and =Abalach-Re was replaced by Dregoth in his bid for power, if one wants to go that route.
how about that awesome art in the original D&D white box set? ;)
I would prefer that to Baxa – at least it had charm.
Just keep that Baxa hack away from Dark Sun and I will have hope.
Here here!
I have always hated Baxa's art. He was one of the most grating aspects of DS that I had to deal with. Brom did a wonderful job on his end, but then I had to deal with the eyesore that was Baxa.
I want DS back.... hopefully with more Brom and maybe some good Wayne Reynolds art as well.
Yes I LOVE psionics.
So, really, I'd love them to come out with it so I can have some pre-written adventures for games in that section of my custom world.
Just throwing my two-cents in there, just in case there's a chance this thread could make the difference, we all want a Dark Sun campaign book. D=
We HAVE to guess what that means, 'coz what you've written makes absolutely no sense at all.
...Paladins on Athas.
Like I said, I doubt that (even though I would love it) WotC will do a Dark Sun setting. However, I feel more than confident that athas.org will create an awesome conversion. I would hope in my wildest fantasies that athas.org would get sanctioned by WotC or possibly just using the OGL, to make the Dark Sun campaign setting. Maybe even publish it as something other than excellent online material. As it stands right now you have to scrounge up an original Dark Sun box set ("expanded and revised" works best). I would love to see it sold on the shelves of my favorite bookstores. 
As it stands, I am praying that athas.org doesn't long to get the online content up and functional. I will work with what I come up with and what ever other gamers put out until then.
The great thing about Dark Sun is that your player can make the difference in the long run on the fate of the land itself... even though it's hopeless, there's still hope, and that is different from Ravenloft, for example.
Hope they make it!! And Planescape too...
I would love to see Dark Sun 4e
(admittedly my curiosity about hearing other peoples opinions on DS was the only reason I even bothered to check the "Other Campaign Settings" forum)
...Paladins on Athas.
if you consider the fact that platemail is useless you could use a paladin as a mounted combat specialist. an escaped slave tribe traveling the ashwastes attempting to bring order to the chaos and shelter from the merciless sun. its dark sun halflings eat people, its not gonna be your daddys idea of a paladin but it could work
i must say though that athas.org did a stellar job in keeping the world alive, and those guys bust their collective arses to continue to do so, so major kudos to them. BUT, i would love a clean slate with the setting and a more unified focus as to it's future. instead of small splinter factions warring over whether or not the RaFoaDK (Rise and Fall of a Dragon King) should be "canon" or not. ugh.
a core campaign book would be awesome and i'd totally pick it up.
just my humble opinion.
~B-)
For me, the part that I loved about Dark Sun was its atmosphere of bleak desolation - not just the climate (though I loved that, too), but the fact that almost everything seemed so overwhelmingly stacked against you that even the simple survival of your characters felt like a triumph. The whole world was slowly sliding to total destruction. It seemed to me that a lot of the later "canon" took away from that. For instance, I liked having the city-states under the iron grip of Sorcerer-Kings (although if Tyr alone was free, that would be alright by me).
And does anybody else remember those "flip-book" adventure modules like "Road to Urik" and "Arcane Shadows?" I thought they were such a fun format...
My guess it that is was TOO different for casual gamers. There really wasn't much of the traditional D&D in the setting. That was one of the reasons I loved it so much.
It was truly awesome...I liked the godlessness too...atheistic world...very cool...
My guess it that is was TOO different for casual gamers. There really wasn't much of the traditional D&D in the setting. That was one of the reasons I loved it so much.
I think that's the reason too, but there are a lot of gamers that simply LOVED Dark Sun for the same reason that you stated. So the million dollar question is. The number of hardcore Dark Sun fans is enough to justify a new Dark Sun? Only WotC knows the answer...
Dark Sun just happened to be my introduction to AD&D. It was given to me when one of my moms friends moved away. I was captivated by it. I later got into Palladium and GURPS, but always found my way back to Dark Sun. Even in 3.X, I dug up every piece of literature I could for it. My friends are dying to see what 4E Dark Sun will look like.
I have never read the novels. I got the gist of them and wanted nothing to do with that level of change in my campaigns, so we play with the Original Boxset, and use some of the Expanded and Revised.
I really do dream of seeing a quality campaign book for Dark Sun. I would even settle with it being the post novel setting.
Now I don't know if that's canon or not, but it does seem plausible.
I personally liked the changes and the evolutions that the world went through in the first ten Free Years. I have friends who didn't like it, and were glad to see that a lot of them were undone by the Dungeon/Dragon Magazine articles.
Just my thought for your penny. I probably owe you change. :P
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Dungeon/Dragon Magazine articles pushed the timeline ahead quite a bit effectively undoing a lot of the changes wrought about in Cerulean Storm. Andropinis was back in charge of Balic at the head of a huge maenad army that he found in the Black. Raam had Dregoth in charge of it. Azultek somehow became a true sorcerer monarch, which basically left Tyr as the only city w/o a sorcerer monarch. Aside of the missing Dragon of Tyr and his levy and these new cerulean storms that sweep from Ur Draxa to parts unseen. Which granted were huge issues, but the Dragon wasn't something you saw often, and his levy was a once a year thing. And if you didn't like the cerulean storms, just not have them in the area. Granted, I thought it was a little delicious irony that a land dying of thirst now has rain storms that would kill you just as fast as the desert.
Now I don't know if that's canon or not, but it does seem plausible.
I personally liked the changes and the evolutions that the world went through in the first ten Free Years. I have friends who didn't like it, and were glad to see that a lot of them were undone by the Dungeon/Dragon Magazine articles.
Just my thought for your penny. I probably owe you change. :P
I was always more into the initial timeline from the first boxed set as well, but the Paizo chop job of David Noonan's work left a bad taste in my mouth even though it did bring the situation closer to the way it had been before.
Mostly, and I think a lot of people agree with me, having the PCs play second fiddle to the "true heroes" of a metaplot is just bad. Instead of having the timeline changed directly by the novels, they SHOULD have made an adventure path where the PCs could bring about the same changes.
Nice sig, BTW!
I liked the fact that in recent years, I could play in Dark Sun and not worry about "stepping" on another author's toes, as nothing has been written in this world in a while.
But I do agree w/ taking the back seat to Heroic NPCs and I have to admit, the Dragon Magazine article did leave me w/ a bad taste. It was just DnD crammed into Dark Sun. Some other friends I had loved it tho.
Thanks, the sig is a Bene Gesserit saying from the Dune Chronicles
When Dark Sun was released in its original boxed form it was hurt by the fact that the game just was not ready for it.
I think you are right. The fantasy genre as a whole has evolved quite a bit since Dark Sun first came out. I think D&D as a game could really make it work now.
I'd love to see this setting revisited.
To me Dark Sun was always a mix between Dune, Ancient Empires and Ravenloft.
Dark Sun and Ravenloft always seemed like diametric opposite campaign settings to me.
For the record, I love them both.
I would love to see Dark Sun available for playing in.
* * SPOILERS * *
- Lifeshaping halflings (not psionics, but rather a skill-based PrC with biology-manipulating powers...well, a fantasy kind of biology, mind you), the sole intelligent land-based lifeform, dominates the world for millenia and rises to high tech levels of biological technology. They create living cities that float on the world ocean, and their civilization lives on the few island chains (the top of current mountain chains). It's the Blue Age, due to the omnipresent water and the blue-colored, cool sun.
- A few wars later, plus hubris, yadi yadi yada, they build the Pristine Tower and change the color of the sun to yellow. A new age begins, the Green Age, where forests and grasslands cover the receding waters. Creatures born of the mutating powers of the Tower - in this brief spontanous-creation period called the Rebirth - become the new beasts of the land and the dwarves, elves, humans, ....., and pyreen. A pyreen is born, as immortal as all the others, but he's deformed. Name's Rajaat. Incredibly brilliant, but who will become ever more deranged as the millenia pass.
- As the halfling civilization dissapears slowly, the new races rise to power and knowledge. Psionics are discovered. Incredible levels of high psionics are reached. Rajaat discovers, after millenia of harduous research, the process of sorcery: drawing the life energy from other living things - at first plants, but later living beings - to power effects he researches and codifies into spells. He perfects magic by taking over the Pristine Tower and reshaping it to do it's bidding (read epic epic, here). The Time of Magic begins. Psionics and magic reign supreme.
- Rajaat has a dream, born of his self-loathing (he's deformed...can't have everything): he'll undo the effects of the Rebirth and return the world to the halflings. First he needs to rid the world of it's monstrosities. He chooses humans, the best compatible with the new science of sorcery, to lie to and make believe he will give the world to them....though he intends to kill humans too, plus pyreen as well. Using the Tower and his own power, he crafts a score of Champions he empowers to become killing machines and generals. The sun, drained of it's power...it's life-giving energy...turns darker still (hence...Dark Sun) and heralds the coming of the final age of past times, the Cleansing Wars. Millions are butchered by Champion-led human armies, and many races - gnomes, orcs - are no more.
- The Champions, realizing the lie perpetrated against them long ago, rebel and kill their unkillable master...who'se corpse swiftly busies itselfs by attempting to regenerate. Panicked and cornered, the Champions seal Rajaat into another dimension of their devising, and also stop waging war against the other races. They elevate one of their own to the greatest power they know, transforming him into the Dragon, with the eternal task of hamassing the life energy - thousands of people's worth every year - to power the spell that keeps Rajaat imprisonned. The transformation into a full dragon renders the Champion mad, who for a hundred years roams the known world and beyond ravaging the land and sucking of its energy all life. The world becomes a wasteland. The Dragon comes to to discover his fellow Champions have barricaded themselves behind epic spells and the mighty walls of cities they took over in the first few horror-filled weeks of his rampage. The Champions have becomed the sorcerer-kings.
- The current era, the Age of the Sorcerer-Kings, lasts between one and two millenia, each year bringing a levy of a thousand people per city to be sacrificed to the Dragon, until king Kalak gets assassinated by rebelious citizens on the eve of his transformation into a full Dragon.
But Rise and Fall of a Dragon King raises a valid point. How is it Borys needed 1000 slaves to fuel an epic spell to renew Rajaat's prison yearly, when Sadira just cast some potent wards and such on it and expect it to last? That's the question I am waiting to have answered, and my players are going to have to find out the hard way that Sadira's spells aren't just cutting it.
Considering that Slaviscek wrote Dark Sun, there's always the hope that the community can appeal to his ego.
SO then lets start a petition or appeal to his ego.
I too would buy into Dark Sun without hesitation. It has been my favorite since it first came out.
its my favorite setting to run, would buy it unseen
Yeah... why doesn't someone start a petition to a 4th ed Dark Sun, it worked great for a new revised Star Wars RPG, we got SAGA!! :D
No need, as....
This player talked to the Devs at GAMA a few days ago and had the following to say, I know it is vague but it's something...
Oh and by the way, Greyhawk, Ravenloft and Dark Sun are definately getting 4e campaigns down the line as well as Planescape and Spelljammer (which they just started working out). They assured us that we can look forward to most of the old campaign setting being remade, and mentioned the above by name.
Should make some happy at least!
You can find the actual thread here.
Just keep that Baxa hack away from Dark Sun and I will have hope.
Be careful what you wish for. We could all end up with Rob Liefeld doing the interior art.
I also loved the Dark Sun computer games. In particular, Dark Sun: Shattered Lands was truly a great CRPG!
I ran that on a 386 SX-25 with 2 MB of RAM. Oh, the horror. Constant loading as I walked from screen tile to screen tile. (And I still played all the way through.) When I finally got a 486, it was wonderful.
I ran that on a 386 SX-25 with 2 MB of RAM. Oh, the horror. Constant loading as I walked from screen tile to screen tile. (And I still played all the way through.) When I finally got a 486, it was wonderful.
I got all that plus a fatal unrecoverable crash right at the final battle, all three time I tried to complete the game.
It was fun up to that point!
*casts vote in to have a Dark Sun for 4e*
And they also said that everything in a campaign setting is going to be available for core. So does this mean we'll have defiling and dwarven foci in the Forgotten Realms?
**Edit** And Mul in Eberron!
So, a few questions that I'd like to get an opinion on. I realize this may be a little difficult as we don't have the 4e books yet, and at least I don't have a clear view on how arcane powers will work, but does anyone have any guesses on how defiling will work? Does anyone have a clue if "Metamagic" feats exist? If they do can we just slap one on a spell for free? Or just add a "spell level" on?
And they also said that everything in a campaign setting is going to be available for core. So does this mean we'll have defiling and dwarven foci in the Forgotten Realms?
**Edit** And Mul in Eberron!
The closest thing said is that DM should not feels bad to ste-... take inspiration from other settings, if that make them creative, and all that.
There is a sizeable % of the D&D market who buy books all over the settings and use them for mixing that way in their campaigns, and so in the whole of the rpg market (GURPS sourcebooks are renowed for their quality, so many peoples buy them... and will never run gurps yet).
WOTC aknowledged it.
And that's the reason we need Planescape!! :D
Planescape however have the serious problem, like Spelljammer to a point, that it's a metasetting. Not everyone like(d) the fact it was overriding any random setting's cosmology (note how eberronists are vehemently opposed to be planescaped generaly, and that a number of realmsians greeted the Tree and the fact they where less tied to planescape that way). Also, the slang and the somewhat hip cool 'haughty' planar attitude gimmick gratted nerves.
But it's another debate.