- The Known World of the OD&D Gazetteer and 2e Mystara product lines.
- Hollow World
- Red Steel/Savage Coast
- Blackmoor
- Thunder Rift: An editor for that line suggested it be located on the continent of Davania.
- Karawenn: The setting of the First Quest novels. According to TSR Product Manager Bruce Heard, likely located in Norwold.
- Ghyr: The OD&D setting of the AD&D Action Figures and Coloring Books, detailed in XL1, Quest for the Heartstone. According to Bruce Heard, Ghyr is likely located somewhere on Mystara.
- Zenopus Castle: The setting of the D&D Comic Ads. Apparently the same place as the sample dungeon from the early blue-cover OD&D Basic Sets. This may be the same locale as Castle Mistamere from the red-cover Basic Set. Featured in "Kill Bargle" in the last issue of DUNGEON magazine.
- Pelinore: The OD&D setting of UK TSR's IMAGINE magazine. Could be the flat planet mentioned in the Gold Box.
- Desert of Desolation: Besides its location in Faerun, it had a suggested Ylaruam location in GAZ2.
- Symslvch and the Dream World: The setting for the Hebrew-language OD&D modules. Likely a separate plane somewhere in the Mystara Cosmology.
Travis
Can somebody explain what were the defining features of the Mystara campaign setting? Thanks - I never played in it.
Here goes...
Mystara consists of a lot of tiny countries, typically based on real Earth cultures, such as Arabian Ylaruam and Mongolian Ethengar. Instead of gods, there are Immortals - all of whom were formerly normal people; in fact, there are detailed rules for PCs themselves to work their way up to become Immortals and go on godlike adventures. Lupins (dog-folk) and Rakastas (cat-folk) are common PC races throughout Mystara. The main setting (equivalent of Toril's Faerun or Oerth's Flanaess) is called the Known World. There is an empire ruled by 1000 36th-level mages, called Alphatia. Flying skyships are common, and were featured in the Voyage of the Princess Ark DRAGON magazine series, a kind of D&D-meets-Star Trek. Mystara has two moons, one of which is invisible, and which has Oriental Adventures-style cultures.
The Savage Coast is located west of the Known World, and is afflicted with the Red Curse, which makes the people, animals, and monsters turn red and develop weird mutant powers. It also has a swashbuckling theme.
The Blackmoor setting of D&D co-creator Dave Arneson is placed thousands of years in Mystara's past. Hi-tech Blackmoorian artifacts sometimes turn up in the Known World, such as a nuclear reactor.
The planet of Mystara happens to be hollow and has a sun inside. This Hollow World setting is similar to Edgar Rice Burroughs' Pullucidar pulp fiction setting, and contains archaic peoples (such as Aztec-, Egyptian-, and Homeric-style) who were placed there by Immortal fiat as a kind of cultural refugium. In the Hollow World, travel is typically via overland trudging, since magical transportation spells do not function.
Lastly, Mystara was drastically changed by a recent event called the Wrath of the Immortals (something like Forgotten Realms' Time of Troubles), when Alphatia sank beneath the sea and reappeared as a floating continent in the Hollow World!
For more info, I suggest the Mystara FAQ at the official website.
By the way, Wizards has entire Savage Coast setting available for free download here.
Travis
Can somebody explain what were the defining features of the Mystara campaign setting? Thanks - I never played in it.
One defining feature about Mystara is that it grew out of the Basic, Expert, Champion, Master and Immortal boxed sets from back when there was Advanced Dungeons and Dragons these boxed sets were for a separate fork of the rules system that retained the Dungeons and Dragons name.
Basic covered rules for 1st to 3rd level.
Expert, from 4th to 14th.
Champion 15th to 25th.
Master 26th to 36th.
Immortals presented rules for running Immortal characters.
The setting received its start in the Expert set as a map in the accompanying X1 Isle of Dread adventure. Yes, the same Isle of Dread that became the setting for the Savage Tide adventure path. In that adventure, there was a map that showed where the island was in relation to a distant continent.
That continent was slowly detailed over the course of years with accessories. The nations were strongly self-contained, with a strongly defined culture, and in many ways inspired by real-world cultures.
The ideosyncracies of the old D&D rules affected the setting in strange ways. Alignment, for instance, there were only lawful, neutral, or chaotic considered. No good or evil in the rules.
There was an elf class, there was a dwarf class, there was a halfling class, and humans could be fighters, magic-users, clerics, or thieves. Druid was sort of an advanced class which neutral clerics could transition into. Fighters could transition into paladins (lawful), knights, or avengers (chaotic). Over the years Mystara accessories added alternate classes such as the dwarf-cleric class, the halfling "master" class, the elf had a pure spellcaster class.
The BECMI rules did not use the Great Wheel cosmology, in fact describing the BECMI cosmology to someone familiar with the Great Wheel would likely cause looks of befuddlement. The BECMI cosmology was understandably a part of Mystara. The cosmology itself could use its own lengthy post detailing it.
Mystara as a setting easily fit high technology alongside non-magic cultures, alongside high magic cultures. The largest empire on the world was settled by people from another star system who travelled across the void of space to get there after they destroyed their own home.
The history of Mystara is grown out of the Blackmoor setting by Dave Arneson (co-author with Gary Gygax of the original rules). The Mystara outgrowth of Blackmoor posits that the Kingdom of Blackmoor reached heights of technological and magical achievement, partly because they salvaged technology from a crash spaceship called the F.S.S. Beagle. "Blackmoor devices" malfunctioned and wiped out that nation from existence. Such high tech is still scattered around the planet waiting for rediscovery.
Immortals seem to be active in the setting, in fact advancement as an Immortal sometimes call for Immortals to have founded a nation and then watch over it and help guide events around it.
The BECMI rules have pretty usable rules for founding a domain and then running it. Birthright came close to having excellent domain rules. But BECMI also had great rules for fast mass combat rules that blended well with the domain rules. The Mystara setting was mapped out in hexes partly because the domain rules for BECMI specified domains in terms of specifically sized hexes. Gaining new territory involved acquiring new hexes on the map.
Those are some of the things that make Mystara distinctive.
One defining feature about Mystara is that it grew out of the Basic, Expert, Champion, Master and Immortal boxed sets from back when there was Advanced Dungeons and Dragons these boxed sets were for a separate fork of the rules system that retained the Dungeons and Dragons name.
Basic covered rules for 1st to 3rd level.
Expert, from 4th to 14th.
Champion 15th to 25th.
Master 26th to 36th.
Immortals presented rules for running Immortal characters.
The setting received its start in the Expert set as a map in the accompanying X1 Isle of Dread adventure. Yes, the same Isle of Dread that became the setting for the Savage Tide adventure path. In that adventure, there was a map that showed where the island was in relation to a distant continent.
That continent was slowly detailed over the course of years with accessories. The nations were strongly self-contained, with a strongly defined culture, and in many ways inspired by real-world cultures.
The ideosyncracies of the old D&D rules affected the setting in strange ways. Alignment, for instance, there were only lawful, neutral, or chaotic considered. No good or evil in the rules.
That would be BASIC, EXPERT, COMPANION, MASTER, IMMORTAL...Champion was a word used on the Champions of Mystara Boxed Set and a selection of Adventure Products developed near the end of the setting's abandonment.
The Known World was a thousand miles from the isle of Dread.
There was an elf class, there was a dwarf class, there was a halfling class, and humans could be fighters, magic-users, clerics, or thieves. Druid was sort of an advanced class which neutral clerics could transition into. Fighters could transition into paladins (lawful), knights, or avengers (chaotic). Over the years Mystara accessories added alternate classes such as the dwarf-cleric class, the halfling "master" class, the elf had a pure spellcaster class.
Yeah! Those were the days...
Mystara as a setting easily fit high technology alongside non-magic cultures, alongside high magic cultures. The largest empire on the world was settled by people from another star system who travelled across the void of space to get there after they destroyed their own home.
The history of Mystara is grown out of the Blackmoor setting by Dave Arneson (co-author with Gary Gygax of the original rules). The Mystara outgrowth of Blackmoor posits that the Kingdom of Blackmoor reached heights of technological and magical achievement, partly because they salvaged technology from a crash spaceship called the F.S.S. Beagle. "Blackmoor devices" malfunctioned and wiped out that nation from existence. Such high tech is still scattered around the planet waiting for rediscovery.
Ruled by an Orc Millitocracy, VULCANIA ORICA is a brutal and expanding empire built on the toil of enslaved Gnomish Steam Technicians. Her IRONCLADS have begun to sail the Seas, Her BARGLE BX-1 Fireball powered Aircraft will soon dominate the Skies, Her STEAMCANNONS lay seige to Castles and Citadels, And deep beneath the Surface lay the frozen cities of a once Technologically Advanced Elven Empire. It is here that the Orcs have slaves mining for hidden Vaults of ancient Blacklore Technology.
They are preparing to expand their empire north into the Continent of Davinia, and move on an unsuspecting world.
I'd like to see the WORLD OF MYSTARA presented as a unified setting with its own Five Spheres Cosmology. Unified Mystara would include the following:
[LIST]
[*]The Known World of the OD&D Gazetteer and 2e Mystara product lines.
Nice catalogue search there, Travis.
[*]Hollow World
[*]Red Steel/Savage Coast
All of these are good except...
[*]Blackmoor
Arneson, a creator of D&D, owns the right to Blackmoor, a campaign setting he created before any D&D campaign setting was published. First mention of his setting appeared in the seventies.
Arneson, a creator of D&D, owns the right to Blackmoor, a campaign setting he created before any D&D campaign setting was published. First mention of his setting appeared in the seventies.
There is precedent for Blackmoor as part of Mystara. TSR published four adventures sets in Blackmoor as part of the BECMI line which set that Blackmoor in the distant past of the Mystara setting. Connections to Blackmoor are all over the Mystara line, and those Blackmoor adventures had distinct links to "contemporary" Mystara. The first adventure has PCs travel back in time to the Blackmoor period.
I'd be curious as to how Arneson's control of Blackmoor differed with Gygax's loss of Greyhawk when he was ousted.
As an Aside though I loved orc wars when i was 13 :P
Nice catalogue search there, Travis.
Thanks!
All of these are good except...
Arneson, a creator of D&D, owns the right to Blackmoor, a campaign setting he created before any D&D campaign setting was published. First mention of his setting appeared in the seventies.
One of the administrators at the DABlackmoor forums has stated that, Wizards does own Arneson's Blackmoor setting (just as Wizards owns Gygax's Greyhawk setting), and that Arneson and Zeitgeist Games are licensees of Wizards (in the same way that Sovereign Stone and Margaret Weiss are licensees of Wizards' Dragonlance setting). If this is true, then there would be no problem including Blackmoor in 4E Mystara.
Travis
I remember those Almanac's that they did...they even had weather for the year and some really good adventure hooks...correct me if Im out of line here but they just dont seem to make stuff that well written anymore.
I'm a pretty new gamer (only got into DnD a few years ago), but the basic premise of Mystara intrigues me more than the Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk ever did. Just pitching in to say that it's not just only "old-school" players who wouldn't mind seeing this wonderfully unique-sounding setting (or at least; a welcome change from the present standard) return.
From what I've seen of what they have said about the direction they want to go with 4th (in the "Points of Light" article on the main site, for example), Mystara in general and Karameikos (sp?) in specific would make a good starting point for 4th. That nation has what, five, six major settlements? Along with hundreds of miles of (mainly) unexplored wilderness. Perfect setting for adventurers.
Mind you, I've DM'd and played in, and liked, Greyhawk, FR, and many other settings, but I played in Mystara (heh, before it was even known as that... geez, I feel old...
) first, so I kind of have a soft spot for it.As an Aside though I loved orc wars when i was 13 :P
If you talk about the mini game that came along with the broken lands gazeteer then i agree. It was hillarious - 'tere be elvs' .....
Mystara was really a great world and I ran OD&D games in it for more than 10 years, then followed up by a few (and not very successfull) years with 2.ed and then a great three year campaign with 3.ed rules.
Some people has kept the world alive at http://pandius.com/ and thanks to people like Geoff Gander (just love his work on Outer Beings) it should be easy to revive a Mystara campaign in 4. ed.
It is easily the largest and most fleshed out of all the old settings. There has been so much printed on it that they would undoubtably have to start with something small and cut out quite a bit to be followed up on later.
"Start with something small and cut out quite a bit to followed up on later" was the approach of the 2nd Edition Mystara materials. "Small" as in, no Worldbook, "small" as in only include the Known World (and not the Isle of Dawn or the Alphatian lands), and "small" as in cover only one country at a time, with a boxed set for each country! Imagine if TSR had continued that boxed set line begun with Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure and Glantri: Kingdom of Magic? A Mystaraphile could've been killed by a collapse of his game collection (and it's the Principalities of Glantri anyway!
).Admittedly, the Savage Coast did receive a 2E treatment...well, two 2E treatments, since 1994's RED STEEL product line and 1996's SAVAGE COAST line mostly covered the same ground. Kind of like releasing a GREYHAWK campaign setting, and then releasing a FLANAESS campaign setting two years later! However, outside of the Mystaraphile community, few people even recognized that the Known World and the Savage Coast were located on the same planet...much less their geographical relation to each other.
...Which is why for the 4E WORLD OF MYSTARA, it seems best to unify all those bits and bobbles into one setting. The 4E Worldbook would include an outer world map and a Hollow World map, like those in the Masters and Hollow World boxed sets, but updated like this (and including political boundaries).
Of course, the main focus of the Worldbook would be on the detailed areas: the Known World, Savage Coast, Isle of Dawn, the Alphatian Sea, and the Hollow World (especially Alphatia). Blackmoor would thread in and out of the history section of the book. Areas such as Ghyr, Thunder Rift, and the Sylvan Realm would likely not get much more than a spot on the map and sentence or few. Karawenn would just be inserted into the map of Norwold. Pelinore and Smyslvch would receive a passing mention in the section on the Mystara Cosmology.
Travis
I for one would like to go back to 1000, but I can live with the metaplot if need be.
But I can also see them deciding that making going with the most recently established timeline, or even jumping ahead, and I could live with that as well.
If WotC supported Mystara again, should they start back at year 1000 or pick up where the Poor Wizard's left off?
I suggest picking up after the almanacs, but including two full-page maps of the outer world showing both the present day (~AC 1015 or so) and AC 1000. The geography changed so much...a whole continent sank beneath the sea. As far as the Hollow World, it'd only require one map showing the present-day HW, since not much changed in the meantime...or ever changes for that matter. However, there would be map of the floating continent of Alphatia.
AC 1020 might be another similar choice. The number is fitting since it'd be the first d20 System version of Mystara, and would still only be 5 years or so from the last published material.
Travis
The WORLD OF URT
The year is A.C. 1220. A Great War* occured in 1200 and in the midst of the Chaos...something bad happened...several bad things.
Much of the populace of the world is destroyed. The forces of Law recede, leaving a world of sword & sorcery where Chaos reigns, with motes of civilization glimmering in the darkness.
It's now 20 years since the Great War and its catastrophic climax, and the entire planet is a place of Dark Fantasy and Technology. Even the name of the planet is forgotten by all but loremasters, and an old name resurfaces...Urt.
This is Mystara as if Robert E. Howard were Chief Writer and Frank Frazetta were Art Director. And Mystara as if Frank Mentzer and Francois Froideval were Creative Directors. Though the setting is reshaped, it diligently respects established Mystaran continuity in getting from there to here. Key words and themes:
- Outer Beings.
- Oard Chronarchy.
- Carnifex.
- Nightmare Dimension rift. Diaboli a common PC race.
- Red Curse spreads. Mutant superpowers.
- (C)thonians.
- Burrowers.
- Radience.
- Blackmoor returns. Techno-artifacts galore. "Blackmoor-feel" for the whole world.
- Gigeresque Egg of Coot.
- Zargon.
- Kartoeba.
- Cimmerian-style Thratian Barbarians.
- The Hollow World as a pulp fiction setting, like Edgar Rice Burrough's Pellucidar.
- The Serpent Peninsula has Serpent Men.
- Zzonga-addicted decadent Alphatia like REH's Valusia.
- Hyborea inhabited by denizens from the Dimension of Myth, inspired by Clark Ashton Smith's Hyperborea (antediluvian Greenland) and REH's Hyperborea (antediluvian Finland).
- UK TSR-style art (like Helen Bedford's black & white illustrations from B10, Night's Dark Terror).
- Some (perhaps nearly all) of James Mishler's conception of Mystara included.
- Dark science fiction elements:
- Tangor inspired by ERB's Poloda of Beyond the Farthest Star (Stalinist Soviet sci-fi).
- Emerondians.
- Galactic Federation.
- Tangor inspired by ERB's Poloda of Beyond the Farthest Star (Stalinist Soviet sci-fi).
- The Immortal Hierarchy depicted as a league of superheroes (and supervillians) fighting against (or collaborating with) with extraterrestrial and extradimensional invaders. Weird Silver Surfer- and Green Lantern Corps-style cosmic D&D adventures...Dimensions & Draedens, that is.
- The Masters World Map is not as wrong as the Alphatians believed.
Travis
*Similar, though not identical to the Great War depicted in the Desert Nomads future timeline, though on a planetary scale. The names of rulers from that series would be kept, but the events would be different, since they've already been retconned as happening during the Wrath of the Immortals.
I suggest advancing the timeline over 200 years.
The WORLD OF URT
The year is A.C. 1220. A Great War* occured in 1200 and in the midst of the Chaos...something bad happened...several bad things.
Much of the populace of the world is destroyed. The forces of Law recede, leaving a world of sword & sorcery where Chaos reigns, with motes of civilization glimmering in the darkness.
It's now 20 years since the Great War and its catastrophic climax, and the entire planet is a place of Dark Fantasy and Technology. Even the name of the planet is forgotten by all but loremasters, and an old name resurfaces...Urt.
This is Mystara as if Robert E. Howard were Chief Writer and Frank Frazetta were Art Director. And Mystara as if Frank Mentzer and Francois Froideval were Creative Directors. Though the setting is reshaped, it diligently respects established Mystaran continuity in getting from there to here. Key words and themes:
- Outer Beings.
- Oard Chronarchy.
- Red Curse. Mutant superpowers.
- Nightmare Dimension. Diaboli a common PC race.
- (C)thonians.
- Burrowers.
- Radience.
- Blackmoor returns. Techno-artifacts galore. "Blackmoor-feel" for the whole world.
- Gigeresque Egg of Coot.
- Zargon.
- Kartoeba.
- Cimmerian-style Thratian Barbarians.
- The Hollow World as a pulp fiction setting, like Edgar Rice Burrough's Pellucidar.
- The Serpent Peninsula has Serpent Men.
- Zzonga-addicted decadent Alphatia like REH's Valusia.
- Hyperborea and Borea inhabited by denizens from the Dimension of Myth, inspired by Clark Ashton Smith's Hyperborea and REH's Borea.
- UK TSR-style art (like Helen Bedford's black & white illustrations from B10, Night's Dark Terror).
- Some (perhaps nearly all) of James Mishler's conception of Mystara included.
- Dark science fiction elements:
- Tangor inspired by ERB's Poloda of Beyond the Farthest Star (Stalinist Soviet sci-fi).
- Emerondians.
- Galactic Federation.
- The Immortal Hierarchy depicted as a league of superheroes (and supervillians) fighting against (or collaborating with) with extraterrestrial and extradimensional invaders. Weird Silver Surfer- and Green Latern Corps-style cosmic D&D adventures...Dimensions & Draedens, that is.
- The Masters World Map is not as wrong as the Alphatians believed.
- No silliness allowed.
Travis
*Similar, though not identical to the Great War depicted in the Desert Nomads future timeline, though on a planetary scale. The names of rulers from that series would be kept, but the events would be different, since they've already been retconned as happening during the Wrath of the Immortals.
A lot of this sounds like the world I run, with a few exceptions:
Alfheim has returned, though the elves are few (< 2000 in the old kingdom) and the elves have begun a crusade to found "New Alfheim" which will culminate in a purge of Orcland.
A Shadow Elf family, The Moonriddles, has established itself on the surface in a forest called the Idlewyld. It is primarily a Chaotic Good, led by a Half-shadow/Half wild named Sorrow in the common tongue, a CG ranger/rogue/bloodhound.
The Great War in 1190 (oddly close to your 1200) consisted of a Necromancer animating colossal mountain giant skeletons, awakening them, and bending them to his will through mass domination castings over several years. With 500 of these as the seige towers of his army, he almost exterminated the savge coast and destroyed the Vilaverde fighting school. Thwe war continued until a group of epic level characters, lead by the arcane archer Tullman Everfist, managed to shatter a massive artifact cannon created with several huge sized ioun stones. The destruction of the artifact screwed up magic on the coast, making a good 40% of it wild magic zones and also ending the red curse powers from the environment. Now, the red curse only exists as an inherited template that allows you to gain the powers and drawbacks as in 2nd Ed.
Travis
Start with something small and cut out quite a bit to followed up on later" was the approach of the 2nd Edition Mystara materials. "Small" as in, no Worldbook, "small" as in only include the Known World (and not the Isle of Dawn or the Alphatian lands), and "small" as in cover only one country at a time, with a boxed set for each country! Imagine if TSR had continued that boxed set line begun with Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure and Glantri: Kingdom of Magic? A Mystaraphile could've been killed by a collapse of his game collection (and it's the Principalities of Glantri anyway!
That is why there are so few of us, my dear Travis... most of the old-school Mystarophiles had been buried long ago under their game collections...;)
And it sure is the PRINCIPALITIES of Glantri
!
The Masters World Map is not as wrong as the Alphatians believed.
In fact, in Urt of 1220, the map of the world is nearly identical to the Masters Set's map. The outer world is nominally ruled by several world powers, who have cultures remininscent of Mentzer's hinted intentions. Mentzer's notes on these realms are available in a series of posts in the Dragonsfoot forums, around here and here.
Within those world powers, except for some Norwold-style wilderness regions, the entire outer world is divvied into hundreds of tiny Karameikos-sized countries. These countries are in turn, grouped into dozens of Known World and Savage Coast-style regions, each with its own theme (like the SC has the Red Curse and swashbuckling). Each world power would contain one or more KW-style subsettings. A kaleidoscope of cultures are represented, including nearly every significant Real World culture, along with cultures evocative of other fantasy setings, such as those of Robert E. Howard, Clark Ashton Smith, H. P. Lovecraft, Robert Zelazny, and Edgar Rice Burroughs. A similar re-envisioning of the Hollow World occurs.
Events include:
- Thyatis has conquered the entire Known World, and has extending even to northern Brun, along the eastern border of Borea. The AC 1000-era KW countries are all provinces or protectorates of Thyatis, yet retain their local culture.
- The island continent of Alphatia has returned from the Hollow World. During the Great War, it was magically driven through the polar opening and landed back in place (even if it required magical shrinking to fit through). It reunites with Belissaria and Esterhold to re-form the Empire of Alphatia.
- The provinces and countries of the Isle of Dawn have united and established their independence from both Thyatis and Alphatia. The Isle of Dawn becomes a setting in its own right, separate from the Known World. Many, though not all (e.g. Thothia), of its cultures are based on various eras of British and Irish history.
- Norwold becomes independent.
- Western Brun is conquered by Emperor Dorfin, inspired by Robert Zelazny's Dworkin from the Chronicles of Amber, and by Zelazny's apparent inspiration for the character, Ronald Dworkin. The realm would be evocative of Amber.
- As mentioned above, Hyborea is evocative of CAS's Hyperborea and REH's Hyperborea. In fact, the chief denizens may actually be from those realms of Laterre (depending on what of that material is in the public domain). Though there are many Karameikos-sized countries in Hyperborea, the regional theme is that of an eldritch Greenland-Finland.
- The Savage Coast is now typically known by its older name, Southold, and is depicted with its former bounds.
- Serpent Men have infiltrated and dominated Yavdlom, Ulimwengu, the City States, and Sind, forming a serpentine realm in the Serpent Peninsula. It is a setting in its own right.
- Thonia becomes a Cthonian realm ruled by servitors of the Outer Beings.
- During the Great War, the Nithians from the Hollow World formed an invasion fleet of pyramid ships and established an empire in northeastern Davania, divided into two vast administrative provinces: Arypt and Lower Arypt.
- During the war, the Immortals become known by some as "gods", and the Old One who appears in the Great War (the same Old One who appeared in the Wrath of the Immortals), is referred to by many as "God". During the war, this God intervenes during crucial events in the Arm of the Immortals, and the region renamed the Arm of God.
- A great Central Asian-style tribal confederacy is established in Skothar: the Empire of the Great Khan. Members include not only human tribes, but also monstrous tribes. There are civilized countries under the rule of the Empire as well.
- As planned for the Adventures in Blackmoor boxed set, classic-era Blackmoor was preserved in the Hollow World. By 1220, Blackmoor has returned from the Hollow World, and re-established itself in its former homeland in Nentsun.
- The city-states and tribes of northern Davania have coalesced into Four Kingdoms.
- The Tangor Empire is ruled by an man evocative of Edgar Rice Burrough's Tangor, who visited the Soviet-style planet of Poloda. If copyright allows it, then the man is the American airman Tangor himself, from the Dimension of Myth. The African-style Tangor people of established Mystaran continuity are incorporated into the empire.
- Brasol, Izonda, Pelatan, Cestia and other realms on the Masters map are established as major powers based on Mentzer's original outline. This is accomplished within the continuity by a couple methods: 1) by merging of existing realms and tribes, or 2) by invasions from appropriate-cultured peoples from elsewhere on Urt, from the Hollow World, or even from extraterrestrial or extradimensional locales. For example, Pelatan and Cestia would be established as matriarchies and Minaea re-established as a Minoan-style realm, incoporating the sea-going Pictish culture already dwelling there.
Despite these events, the countries of 1000 AC, such as Karameikos, Darokin, and Ylaruam, are mostly preserved in some form or another as provinces or protectorates within the dominant world powers. Some of them may be in rebellion, but they are still claimed by the surrounding world power.
As far as maps, the main map of the world would be done in the style of the Master's map, but more detailed like this one, but showing country boundaries. However, there'd also be a GAZ-style hex version, annotated for DM use.
Travis
The planet of Mystara happens to be hollow and has a sun inside.
Actually, its not a sun... it is a small pin hole rip into the elemetal plane of fire...
Actually, its not a sun... it is a small pin hole rip into the elemetal plane of fire...
It is a sun...a sun that is formed from an elemental intrusion. Hollow World denizens call it "the sun". The same is true for the "outer sun" of Mystara's solar system - it's an elemental intrusion from the Plane of Fire as well.
Travis
It is a sun...a sun that is formed from an elemental intrusion. Hollow World denizens call it "the sun". The same is true for the "outer sun" of Mystara's solar system - it's an elemental intrusion from the Plane of Fire as well.
Travis
Well ok then, i can agree with that. I was not aware that al suns in the Mystara setting were made in the same way... well at least that point has been made now, I guess you do learn something everyday.. :D
Events include:
- Thyatis has conquered the entire Known World, and has extending even to northern Brun, along the eastern border of Borea. The AC 1000-era KW countries are all provinces or protectorates of Thyatis, yet retain their local culture.
- The island continent of Alphatia has returned from the Hollow World. During the Great War, it was magically driven through the polar opening and landed back in place (even if it required magical shrinking to fit through). It reunites with Belissaria and Esterhold to re-form the Empire of Alphatia.
- The provinces and countries of the Isle of Dawn have united and established their independence from both Thyatis and Alphatia. The Isle of Dawn becomes a setting in its own right, separate from the Known World. Many, though not all (e.g. Thothia), of its cultures are based on various eras of British and Irish history.
- Norwold becomes independent.
- Western Brun is conquered by Emperor Dorfin, inspired by Robert Zelazny's Dworkin from the Chronicles of Amber, and by Zelazny's apparent inspiration for the character, Ronald Dworkin. The realm would be evocative of Amber.
- As mentioned above, Hyperborea is evocative of CAS's Hyperborea and REH's Hyperborea. In fact, the chief denizens may actually be from those realms of Laterre (depending on what of that material is in the public domain). Though there are many Karameikos-sized countries in Hyperborea, the regional theme is that of an eldritch Greenland-Finland.
- The Savage Coast is now typically known by its older name, Southold, and is depicted with its former bounds.
- Serpent Men have infiltrated and dominated Yavdlom, Ulimwengu, the City States, and Sind, forming a serpentine realm in the Serpent Peninsula. It is a setting in its own right.
- Thonia becomes a Cthonian realm ruled by servitors of the Outer Beings.
- During the Great War, the Nithians from the Hollow World formed an invasion fleet of pyramid ships and established an empire in northeastern Davania, divided into two vast administrative provinces: Arypt and Lower Arypt.
- During the war, the Immortals become known by some as "gods", and the Old One who appears in the Great War (the same Old One who appeared in the Wrath of the Immortals), is referred to by many as "God". During the war, this God intervenes during crucial events in the Arm of the Immortals, and the region renamed the Arm of God.
- A great Central Asian-style tribal confederacy is established in Skothar: the Empire of the Great Khan. Members include not only human tribes, but also monstrous tribes. There are civilized countries under the rule of the Empire as well.
- As planned for the Adventures in Blackmoor boxed set, classic-era Blackmoor was preserved in the Hollow World. By 1220, Blackmoor has returned from the Hollow World, and re-established itself in its former homeland in Nentsun.
- The city-states and tribes of northern Davania have coalesced into Four Kingdoms.
- The Tangor Empire is ruled by an man evocative of Edgar Rice Burrough's Tangor, who visited the Soviet-style planet of Poloda. If copyright allows it, then the man is the American airman Tangor himself, from the Dimension of Myth. The African-style Tangor people of established Mystaran continuity are incorporated into the empire.
- Brasol, Izonda, Pelatan, Cestia and other realms on the Masters map are established as major powers based on Mentzer's original outline. This is accomplished within the continuity by a couple methods: 1) by merging of existing realms and tribes, or 2) by invasions from appropriate-cultured peoples from elsewhere on Urt, from the Hollow World, or even from extraterrestrial or extradimensional locales. For example, Pelatan and Cestia would be established as matriarchies and Minaea re-established as a Minoan-style realm, incoporating the sea-going Pictish culture already dwelling there.
Despite these events, the countries of 1000 AC, such as Karameikos, Darokin, and Ylaruam, are mostly preserved in some form or another as provinces or protectorates within the dominant world powers. Some of them may be in rebellion, but they are still claimed by the surrounding world power.
Wow Travis! Lots of awesome ideas here. I'm saving these for stealing later. Id love to see something done for Mystara under 4e. It would definately be good way for WotC to sell me on 4e.
If that was to happen I would like them to focus on the Known World region though, perhaps expanding onto the other areas you mention in later supplements..
Just a thought
Havard
A kaleidoscope of cultures are represented, including nearly every significant Real World culture, along with cultures evocative of other fantasy setings, such as those of Robert E. Howard, Clark Ashton Smith, H. P. Lovecraft, Robert Zelazny, and Edgar Rice Burroughs.
Another fantasy inspiration would be the worlds of Michael Moorcock, since Ghyr (firmly placed in 4E Urt) has Melnibonean elements, such as the Kelmain and Nihrain Steed.
Travis
A return from the dead would be great, but I fear it will be possibly only if we do it by ourselfs...
I have played in the Mystara setting for years, but left when they transformed to 2E - Yes I play(ed) the original D&D game (NOT D20)
There are more of us out there
The Classic D&D era was without a doubt the best era for Mystarans...
A return from the dead would be great, but I fear it will be possibly only if we do it by ourselfs...
Good idea! How come I dont see you over at http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=291 ?
Havard
Another fantasy inspiration would be the worlds of Michael Moorcock, since Ghyr (firmly placed in 4E Urt) has Melnibonean elements, such as the Kelmain and Nihrain Steed.
Alphatia also has some Melnibonean elements IMO
Havard
How come I dont see you over at http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=291 ?
Havard
SIMPLY - I JUST JOINED YESTERDAY AND HAD NOT FOUND THE OTHER PLACE.
SIMPLY - I JUST JOINED YESTERDAY AND HAD NOT FOUND THE OTHER PLACE.
Hehe, I will accept that excuse ;)
Good to see that you have found your way there now!
Havard
I suggest advancing the timeline over 200 years.
I'd actually go the other direction - about 1000 years or so into the past. Call it "Mystara - Dark Ages" or something like that. Not only do you have the Beastman Wars of the Traladarans (King Halav's time), but also the arrival of the Alphatians, the Nithian Empire, overpopulation of the Broken Lands (and subsequent goblinoid migrations), and numerous other plot-rich adventure ideas. That way, the toes of those who have already spent a large amount of time advancing Mystara's timeline won't be stepped on. Besides, starting a new campaign setting in the middle of a Beastman (gnoll) invasion would be a great way to get new players into the action.
I'd actually go the other direction - about 1000 years or so into the past. Call it "Mystara - Dark Ages" or something like that. Not only do you have the Beastman Wars of the Traladarans (King Halav's time), but also the arrival of the Alphatians, the Nithian Empire, overpopulation of the Broken Lands (and subsequent goblinoid migrations), and numerous other plot-rich adventure ideas. That way, the toes of those who have already spent a large amount of time advancing Mystara's timeline won't be stepped on. Besides, starting a new campaign setting in the middle of a Beastman (gnoll) invasion would be a great way to get new players into the action.
I agree, that would be awesome.
I have a good gist of what Traladara and Nithia would be like in this time, but what about the rest of the Known World. Any other good adventure spots in BC1000?
Havard
If Greyhawk have troubles getting such a chance, don't get any hope for Mystara, to be honest.
The popular oppinion is that Mystara is even weirder AND blander than Greyhawk, a gone and forgotten relic.
Sorry.
Don't count on it.
No one is. I don't know why you are apologizing about anything.
It's all wishful thinking, no harm in that.
The popular oppinion is that Mystara is even weirder AND blander than Greyhawk, a gone and forgotten relic.
weirder. maybe. blander. not a chance.
weirder. maybe. blander. not a chance.
To be frank, it sounds to me paler compared to the (more developped) Big three. Kind of artificial, wee bit sterile. I'd prefer Greyhawk for the chance.
No personal offence, but it don't do much for me, and it was not popular as a reincarnation in 2nd edition. DOubt it will have a chance much.
To be frank, it sounds to me paler compared to the (more developped) Big three. Kind of artificial, wee bit sterile. I'd prefer Greyhawk for the chance.
Mystara is more developed than Greyhawk. No competition. I have everything for both worlds, there is more Known World/Mystara material. Excluding novels, there is also more Mystara than Dragonlance, no comparison yet again.
I'm guessing you aren't very familiar with the breadth of material that has been available for Mystara over the years. That's okay, most people aren't.
Mystara is more developed than Greyhawk. No competition. I have everything for both worlds, there is more Known World/Mystara material. Excluding novels, there is also more Mystara than Dragonlance, no comparison yet again.
I'm guessing you aren't very familiar with the breadth of material that has been available for Mystara over the years. That's okay, most people aren't.
this is a.... strange ennunciate. It do not seems right, especially since Greyhawk had a much longer run, finally.
this is a.... strange ennunciate. It do not seems right, especially since Greyhawk had a much longer run, finally.
Greyhawk was discontinued a couple times and brought back later. Mystara/Known World had one long continuous run. When it was discontinued it had been around continuously longer than FR.
Dont forget to include the Savage Coast/Red Steel setting, which like Kara Tur is on the same world as Faerun, take place on the same continent as the Known World.
Then include the Hollow World setting, takes place inside the planet of Mystara.
But it is true, Mystara had more material than Greyhawk ever did.
No personal offence, but it don't do much for me, and it was not popular as a reincarnation in 2nd edition. DOubt it will have a chance much.
I think you have just pointed out the main problem for Mystara. Alot of people, including WotC people, associate Mystara with what was produced for the setting under the 2e rules. Karameikos:Kingdom of Adventure wasn't that bad, but overall, I am not surprised that people who only know the 2e stuff for Mystara will see the setting as bland if not worse. Ofcourse, they are missing the gold mine that is the Classic D&D Mystara stuff.
Eric, I had no idea Mystara had that much material compared to the other settings, but I guess Mystara was in a unique position of being the only supported setting for Classic D&D during the 80s and 90s.
Will we have a chance? As Eric says, this is mainly wishful thinking. But I also think alot will depend on whether WotC will continue their policy under 3e that limiting the number of settings is a good idea.
Personally I would love it if WotC started publishing 300 page sourcebooks each detailing one of the old TSR worlds. The settings would not be supported (unless they proved to be very popular), but each world would get its own book with setting info, rules, monsters, treasure etc etc. I think there would be a good market for this. I am a Mystara fan, but I would probably pick up the core books for all of the settings. Maybe there are more people out there who feel the same way I do? If there is money to be made, why not go ahead and do it?
Alternately you could put two settings into each book:
Greyhawk and Mystara: Worlds of Empires
Dark Sun and Al-Quadim: Worlds of Desert
Spelljammer and Planescape: Worlds of Transition
Kara-Tur and Maztica: Worlds of the Exotic
Birthright and the Savage Coast: Worlds of Legacy
Hollow World and Thunder Rift: Worlds of the Hidden
FR, Ebberon, DL and Raveloft are not included as I assume they are getting full support. Blackmoor is still being published by ZGG.
Sorry if I forgot any.
Havard
I have a good gist of what Traladara and Nithia would be like in this time, but what about the rest of the Known World. Any other good adventure spots in BC1000?
Oops...yes BC 1000...that is 2000 years ago, not 1000 as I mentioned earlier.
At least you knew what I was talking about. As for what adventure spots are available, here is a list of canon events for the year BC 1000:Gnollish tribes from Nithia invade Traldar territory. The Hutaakans retreat to their valley while the Traldar and the gnolls practically annihilate on another. By the time the gnolls retreat, the Traldar population is 20% of its pre-invasions amount. The Traldar Golden Age has ended and its Dark Age has begun.
Many seafaring Traldar, led by a lesser king named Milen, flee south across the Sea of Dread, and reach the Southern Continent to the west of what would later be called the Hinterlands. They travel far upriver and establish a new kingdom there.
As the gnolls cross southern Darokin, most of the humans flee north, right into the Broken Lands where few survive.
The Broken Lands become overpopulated. All tribes join and raid Rockhome; they are defeated by the dwarven king Blystar III. Minor raids go on for 500 years. Some tribes migrate south and limit Nithia's expansion into the Southern Continent.
Orcs, pushed west by the gnolls, invade the halfling's lands and enslave them. The Gentle Folk elves disappear or are destroyed by the orcs. Realm of Othrong is founded by the orcs.
The Nithian Empire is at its peak; it is the first post-Blackmoor empire in the world. It features monumental architecture, large urban complexes in the delta region of the River Nithia, conquest of neighboring states, establishment of more remote colonies, and the development of sophisticated arts and culture. Colonies are planted in the Makai islands (south of the halflings). The humans of the Northern Reaches are enslaved by the Nithian Empire. The Nithians, made curious about the Southern Continent by the Traldar flight in that direction, transport many Northern Reaches slaves to Harbortown and thence to the Southern Continent, to colonize there. This is the southern limit of Nithian expansion, and it isn't very successful: The Northern Reaches slaves soon rebel and slay their Nithian overlords. These tribes carve out their own territory in the humanoid infested lands, and are the forefathers of the Thyatian, Kerendan, and Hattian tribes.
Nithian seafarers discover the Ierendi Isles and conquer the aboriginal Makai natives and conduct many skirmishes with the Malpheggi lizardmen.
A gnollish tribe makes its way to Sindh and tries to settle in the fertile lands. The Sindhi welcome them as unskilled laborers. Some gnolls elect to stay and others move east into the Great Waste and the Plain of Fire. These humanoid migrations cause the old Wogar Tribe to renew attacks on Sindh. To make matters worse, the Urduk nomads no longer enthusiastically uphold their side of the Sindhi-Urduk alliance which causes bitterness between the two.
The gnolls who went into the Plain of Fire discover a strange world of caves, tunnels, mutated plants, and unusual creatures beneath the desert. Despite the treacherous terrain and poisonous plants and animals, they find plenty of water in the form of underground rivers, streams, and pools and enough food to provide for the tribe. Once they learned which were safe to consume, they stayed and named their new land Graakh ("Harsh").
Black explorers from Tangor on the Eastern Continent find and colonize the Pearl Islands.
On the Alphatians' world, the war between the Followers of Air and Followers of Flame reaches its zenith. Followers of Flame are defeated. King Alphaks is banished. Old Alphatia is destroyed; the Followers of Air come the Mystara and settle on the great continent they name Alphatia in memory of their homeworld (Alphatian Landfall). They bring natural strains of wolf and tiger lycanthropy with them.
In the wake of the humanoid invasions, the Immortals are quite busy selecting endangered cultures for preservation in the Hollow World. The Traldar and many other cultures are preserved in this fashion. The Traldar are placed on the coast of the Aztlan Ocean right where the great equatorial mountains reach the ocean; they call that body of water the Atlass Ocean. They're south of the Schattenalfen and north of the virgin territories. They quickly spread out to inhabit all their mountainous seacoast lands. Not cooperative enough among themselves to form an empire, they occupy themselves with pirate raids into Azcan territories.
Many Makai are transplanted to the Hollow World to preserve their culture in the face of Nithian assimilation. Placed in an archipelago south of the equator, they resume their carefree, peaceful existence.
Meanwhile, an expedition of Shadow Elves leaves the City of Stars in an effort to find the path to the surface world. Instead, they find their way to the Hollow World, where they are fatally poisoned by the rays of the eternal sun. Some of them make it back to the City of Stars with news of their voyage to the "surface," but all soon perish.
And that doesn't include events that are nearby on either side of BC 1000. So while it would be quite different from the nations of AC 1000, there is enough that would be familiar to make for a good campaign - beginner or otherwise.
I'd actually go the other direction - about 1000 years or so into the past. Call it "Mystara - Dark Ages" or something like that. Not only do you have the Beastman Wars of the Traladarans (King Halav's time), but also the arrival of the Alphatians, the Nithian Empire, overpopulation of the Broken Lands (and subsequent goblinoid migrations), and numerous other plot-rich adventure ideas.
This is a great idea! One of Mystara's greatest strength's is its extensive and intertwining histories. There are so many possibilities for campaigning in that rich history.
As a possible 'Known World' setting book, it would be interesting to see a compiled known world gazetteer, perhaps at a different year than 1000 AC. (That just makes me wonder what each of the gazes would be like during different stages of each nation's history...).
Even though I have all the OD&D gazes, I don't think I'd be able to pass on a 4E incarnation. The trick to reintroducing Mystara is to provide something that hasn't already been created while not destroying the validity of what has come before it.
Oh, and I too agree that the 4E 'points of light' ideology is very compatible with Mystara for the most part.
This is a great idea! One of Mystara's greatest strength's is its extensive and intertwining histories. There are so many possibilities for campaigning in that rich history.
(snip)
Oh, and I too agree that the 4E 'points of light' ideology is very compatible with Mystara for the most part.
Which is why I think (even if it is not even remotely a possibility) that a Mystara set in the past would be a fantastic setting for the 4E philosophy. Even with the Nithian Empire, the 'points of light' works very well. You have Nithian colonies, the Traladarans, the halflings being ruled by orcs, gnolls under the Plain of Fire, the Milenians on the Southern Continent, newly arrived Alphatians, Shadow Elves, Pearl Islands...all completely separated from each other and struggling to survive on their own. But the events of one area echoes through the others (i.e. displaced populations have to go somewhere...). Very much 'points of light in the darkness'.
I think it is a perfect fit...but then again, I'm biased. :D
I think you have just pointed out the main problem for Mystara. Alot of people, including WotC people, associate Mystara with what was produced for the setting under the 2e rules. Karameikos:Kingdom of Adventure wasn't that bad, but overall, I am not surprised that people who only know the 2e stuff for Mystara will see the setting as bland if not worse. Ofcourse, they are missing the gold mine that is the Classic D&D Mystara stuff.
Wow...just the opposite here. I like the 2nd ed stuff the best out of anything.
Wow...just the opposite here. I like the 2nd ed stuff the best out of anything.
Well that is nice to hear
I may have been harsh on AD&D Mystara line.
Products I consider to be good from that line:
Karameikos:Kingdom of Adventure Boxed Set
Poor Wizard's Almanac AC1012
Joshuan Almanac (good, though a step down from its predecessors)
Mark of Amber
Red Steel Boxed Set
Savage Baronies Boxed Set (Superb)
Savage Coast Setting(available as free pdf only)
Orcs Head Peninsula (available as free pdf only)
Savage Coast Monsterous Manual (available as free pdf only)
If we include the Red Steel/Savage Coast products with the Mystara line even if they didnt have the Mystara logo attached to them, I will agree that the majority of the books were good.
Havard
Say like would it fit whole or would part of it have to be taken up by the existing continent its just that I'm looking at the perhaps extreme possibility what brings on the spellplague is the return of the mystaran continent or at least the rest of the it if this elven rite of high magic is legitimate we could be looking at Mystara's return!
Okay I'm a little too optimistic but its worth a look right?
Just a thought however unlikely but has anyone got a reasonably accurate idea of what the mystaran world looks like if placed either next to Faerun or overlayed?
Say like would it fit whole or would part of it have to be taken up by the existing continent its just that I'm looking at the perhaps extreme possibility what brings on the spellplague is the return of the mystaran continent or at least the rest of the it if this elven rite of high magic is legitimate we could be looking at Mystara's return!
Okay I'm a little too optimistic but its worth a look right?
Given that you would have to give up Mystara's cosmology (Immortals, Hollow Planet, Nature of Magic), I don't think it would be worth it.
Havard
Another note of Mystara's flavour is that it often deals with conflicts of personal/national perspectives rather than straight good vs. evil.
That's one of the things I like about it the most. Without having the cut-and-dried good/evil axis in D&D, Mystara could really fit players in on any side of any conflict. It's also a reason I don't like the standard AD&D/3e cosmology. It seems at higher levels everything devolves to the great war between devils/demons and the forces of good, and that just bores me.
That's one of the things I like about it the most. Without having the cut-and-dried good/evil axis in D&D, Mystara could really fit players in on any side of any conflict. It's also a reason I don't like the standard AD&D/3e cosmology. It seems at higher levels everything devolves to the great war between devils/demons and the forces of good, and that just bores me.
I like epic Good/Evil campaigns, but they do get old after a while. Sometimes it is nice to have the Mystara cosmology with the Five Spheres of Power to make things a little more grey, even for the epic stuff
Havard
It seems at higher levels everything devolves to the great war between devils/demons and the forces of good, and that just bores me.
I don't know. There's something to be said about the machinations of fiends and the war against them.
I'm guessing you aren't very familiar with the breadth of material that has been available for Mystara over the years. That's okay, most people aren't.
the problem of course being Mystara has been missing for awhile
the problem of course being Mystara has been missing for awhile
Not missing!
You can buy the gazetteers over at www.paizo.com in pdf format. Highly recommended!
Alot of that stuff is categorized under Classic D&D BTW.
Havard
Not missing!
You can buy the gazetteers over at www.paizo.com in pdf format. Highly recommended!
Alot of that stuff is categorized under Classic D&D BTW.
Havard
Is dormant a better word. And I bought the first half of those gazeteers when they came out in the late 80s. Great stuff
To say it's a bland setting implies lack of knowledge about it.
I for one would love to get hold of some of the original stuff. Hollow world is awesome.
They have so much material already compiled, why not have a world book with everything? My thoughts are that the timeline should be installed with the whole mystaran history, that way DM's could start anywhere they like. Or time travel to many chrono-locations. Perhaps enlarge the known world scale to reasonable proportions, the countries were awful small. I also like having immortals instead of gods, and having the quest for immortality as the pinnacle of your adventuring career. Then you get to start all over as a 1st level immortal. Awesome!
Bring Mystara back, I'm all over that action. :D
Mystara kicks butt
They have so much material already compiled, why not have a world book with everything?
Yeah, that would be sweet. The Poor Wizard's Almanacs were the closest we ever saw to that, but they were written as DM's tools only. A book containing an Almanac's worth of info, pluss a similar size chunk directed towards players would be great! And ofcourse with a big poster sized map. The focus should be on the traditional Known World countries, plus the areas touched upon in Dawn of the Emperors, with some less extensive descriptions of what is beyond that (The Hollow World, the Savage Coast, Davania, Skothar, the Moons, Pandius etc).
My thoughts are that the timeline should be installed with the whole mystaran history, that way DM's could start anywhere they like. Or time travel to many chrono-locations. Perhaps enlarge the known world scale to reasonable proportions, the countries were awful small.
A complete timeline is a must! Mystara is often criticized for the small size of the Known World countries, but they are comparable to small European kingdoms of the middle ages. What makes it more quirky is the fact that each country has a very distinct culture, but IMO that isn't neccessarily such a bad thing...
I also like having immortals instead of gods, and having the quest for immortality as the pinnacle of your adventuring career. Then you get to start all over as a 1st level immortal. Awesome!
Yes, I would say this focus is one of the things that sets Mystara apart from the other standard settings. Most settings have the occasional mortal achieving godhood, but on Mystara, virtually all deities have once been mortal.
Bring Mystara back, I'm all over that action. :D
Havard
I ran a Mystara campaign for 16 years, and was never at a loss for ideas of what to throw at my PCs. The only thing I don't like about the setting is its ridiculous name, which it didn't have when we began playing. Back then it was just the "Known World". I can't help but wonder if giving it such a silly, campy name didn't contribute to the demise of the best game world setting ever devised.
One thing that sets Mystara way above worlds like Forgotten Realms is its diverse landscape. Each nation or region had its own culture and atmosphere. When the PCs traveled from Karameikos to Glantri they FELT like they were in a different place. It was so much better than these game worlds where everybody speaks "Common" and have similar fantasy-sounding names no matter where they come from.
And if I get any vote (which, of course, I don't) the setting would be presented in 1000 AC, before the Wrath of the Immortals. Getting rid of Alphatia, I think, also contributed to the death of Mystara. There was something exotic about the Empire of Magic, plus it was a perfect foil for both Glantri and Thyatis.
And if I get any vote (which, of course, I don't) the setting would be presented in 1000 AC, before the Wrath of the Immortals. Getting rid of Alphatia, I think, also contributed to the death of Mystara. There was something exotic about the Empire of Magic, plus it was a perfect foil for both Glantri and Thyatis.
You are probably right. The AC 1000 setting would be more popular especially to the current fanbase. Also, compared to AC1010-1012 aka the Post WotI era looses out to AC1000 in most ways. Possibly another reason why AD&D Mystara failed.
If I were a published with the rights to Mystara I would probably launch AC1000 first, but then also support some other eras like the Nithia Era and maybe a future era as well.
Havard
the D&D rules compendium is still to me the greatest book for gamers ever published. anyone who owns it will support me in this argument. everything you need to play from classes to monsters to setting in one book.
the D&D rules compendium is still to me the greatest book for gamers ever published. anyone who owns it will support me in this argument. everything you need to play from classes to monsters to setting in one book.
Minor correction. It's the D&D Rules Cyclopedia. The compendium is that new book that just came out. I wouldn't want anyone to confuse the two.
http://paizo.com/store/downloads/wizardsOfTheCoast/classicDAndD/rulebooks/v5748btpy7mvs
--Ray.
Minor correction. It's the D&D Rules Cyclopedia. The compendium is that new book that just came out. I wouldn't want anyone to confuse the two.
http://paizo.com/store/downloads/wizardsOfTheCoast/classicDAndD/rulebooks/v5748btpy7mvs
--Ray.
okay i confused them. but im right about that correct? no better book
okay i confused them. but im right about that correct? no better book
You're very correct.
I recently returned to the RC and have been very happy with the results in our campaign.I also find it ironic (but in a good way) that the RC pdf is often listed as a "best seller" over at Paizo's store.
--Ray.
I also find it ironic (but in a good way) that the RC pdf is often listed as a "best seller" over at Paizo's store.
No surprise there, I consider it one of the best rule compilations in RPG history. Also, there is a neat little section at the end dedicated to Mystara.
The sad thing about Mystara was that so few people at TSR really understood what the setting was about and the appeal among its fans.
Havard
In a few years I will probably get my kids into D&D and will probably start with the Known World.
I would love to see Mystara revived. I don't have the extensive experience that a lot of you have, but I still love it. My experience with it come from playing the Basic and Expert D&D sets (we never moved beyond Expert since we switched to 1st Ed AD&D) and then later returning to run a war with the desert nomads mini-campaign (detailed in X10: Red Arrow Black Shield).
The War against the Desert Nomads should be spot on these days...
Havard
The War against the Desert Nomads should be spot on these days...
Havard
It is. My players loved it. I ran it from 2003-2006 with many side-treks. We were using classic dnd in the beginning but eventually migrated the campaign to 35e. X4/X5/X10 run as a super-module simply can't be beat!
--Ray.
1) Immortals not Gods: One of the aspects of this is Questing for Immortality. Achieving Immortal status is something that is potentially available to all great heroes, though few succeed in such quests.
2) The Radience: The artifact that powers magic in the Known World. Its power may be harnessed, but at a price.
3) The Blackflame: A secret guarded by the Halflings is the Flame that consumes rock rather than earth. It is used to forge unique weapons used by the most powerful Hin Warriors.
4) The Trees of Life: The Secret of the Elves. Elves guard their magical trees and harvest their power.
5) The Dwarven Forges of Power: The Dwarves have their power too, giving them the ability to forge powerful magical items.
6) The Red Curse: The curse that causes a craving for the material known as cinnabryl also leaves a legacy of power: Those afflicted posess magical abilities, but using them comes at a price.
7) New Races: Rakasta, Lupins (and possibly also Aranea and Diaboli) are as common as elves and dwarves. Many other unique races may also be encountered.
I would like to see the following products:
1. Mystara: The Known World Sourcebook
2. Mystara: The Alphatian Empire Sourcebook
3. Mystara: The Savage Coast Sourcebook
4. Mystara: The Hollow World Sourcebook
5. Mystara: The Norwold Sourcebook
Havard
I also like having immortals instead of gods, and having the quest for immortality as the pinnacle of your adventuring career.
Yes, I would say this focus is one of the things that sets Mystara apart from the other standard settings.
Here are some of the features I think should be brought out in a 4e version of Mystara:
1) Immortals not Gods: One of the aspects of this is Questing for Immortality. Achieving Immortal status is something that is potentially available to all great heroes, though few succeed in such quests.
Without a doubt, the concept of Immortals was by far the best concept employed in any D&D rulebook in my opinion. I still remember when I was a kid, and I saved up my money to buy the D&D Immortal set, having already collected the Basic, Expert, Campaign, and Master sets. I remember exactly where I was sitting in the lounge when I leafed through the pages in awe at the sheer might of Immortal power. And I remember the moment when I read the section in the Immortal Dungeon Master's guide entitled The Secret of the Multiverse, which explained, not only the origin of the entire multiverse itself, but also how a player could win the game. (See below for more info.) The thought of finally finishing and winning the game of D&D after years and years of investment fascinated me for a very long time.
The Immortal rules boxed set has now been superseded by the Epic Level Handbook. I'm sure the Epic Level Handbook will be superseded by an equivalent 4E rulebook that will contain rules for characters of levels 30+. When 3E was first announced I sent a post to WotC's D&D mailing list at the time, suggesting that an Immortal accessory be added for 3E; and I'm suggesting the same thing now for 4E. (I'll probably be doing it for 5E also!)
I think an optional 4th edition accessory that reintroduces rules for Immortal characters would be excellent. Here's what the accessory would have to include:
(1) Rules for questing for immortality. The particular path you choose would strongly influence your role in immortal politics. In the Immortal rules, there were four spheres of power that you could serve, each with its own path to Immortality. These were: Matter, Energy, Time, and Thought. A fifth sphere, Entropy, was only available to NPCs. I was disappointed that in the 3E Deities and Demigods book, there were only a couple of pages on the topic of ascension. In my view, this topic deserves a whole chapter!
(2) Rules for Immortals to develop their own plane of existence. In the Immortal Rules, every Immortal was in charge of their own universe (plane of existence). They could create stars, planets, and life which they could use for entertainment or political purposes. One of my players created a whole planet on which there was a race of beings that worshipped him. Those who served him well were rewarded in the afterlife, those who didn't were punished. The scope for player creativity is endless, and the player almost becomes a Dungeon Master of their own world.
(3) Rules for creating different "forms" or bodies to inhabit. Again, in the Immortal rules, players could create numerous forms which their immortal spirit could incarnate into. If your primary form died, you had a spare. Characters could even incarnate into multiple forms at a time, with the extra forms being called avatars.
(4) Rules for winning the game! The Immortal rules explained in detail how the "Old Ones" (a group of unknown omnipotent beings) created the multiverse. They did so as a means to reproduce and create new Old Ones. Just as Immortals search for powerful mortals and test them to see if they are worthy of becoming immortals, the entire multiverse is a test for the Immortals. If an Immortal achieves Full Hierarch status (the highest rank achievable by an Immortal), and then disperses their life essence into their home plane to reincarnate themselves as a mere mortal once again, they will likely die as any other normal mortal. But if they are successful, not only at achieving immortal status a second time, but also Full Hierarch status a second time, the rulebook described this event as follows: "No higher goal can be achieved and no reward is too great, the player wins and his character vanishes and that is the final end of this game."!!!
If rules for Immortal characters were published, whether or not they were presented in a Mystara rulebook, I would be the first to buy it. I would be camping outside the gaming shop the night before the book arrives into stock. (Well, maybe not, but I'd definitely be there before they opened!)
Bring back the Immortals!
All I can say is I am very interested in seeing this brought back.
While you wait, I recommend checking out www.pandius.com which features vast amounts of high quality fan produced material. In particular look out for the pdf compilations like the fan gazetteers, Net Almanacs etc
Havard
I think our fan base has too small a population for them to revive it, also, I believe the Vaults of Pandius developers have been given some control over the progression of the "Official" history of the Mystara universe. (Don't quote me on that.)
Contrary to most other official fan websites, there's no such thing as "the Vaults of Pandius developers", actually. There is a single webmaster, and materials are simply submitted by the fans on the message board, mailing list or directly to the webmaster. The works are then published without editing.
So, there is also no official progression of the history, and, contrary to the other fan websites, the Vaults' webmaster has never opted to mark anything published there as official.
Basically, there's no official Mystara beyond the TSR material. There are, though, many different takes on the setting by different people, most of them collected at the Vaults.
Which also means everyone is more then welcome to contribute his ideas, no matter how contrasting with other works (canon included).
The WOTC designers don't seem to like to take other peoples materials and run with them. (My opinion, also, please don't quote.)
Even if they liked the ideas, copyright issues would prevent them from using any non-WotC material.
G.
Greyhawk was discontinued a couple times and brought back later. Mystara/Known World had one long continuous run. When it was discontinued it had been around continuously longer than FR.
Dont forget to include the Savage Coast/Red Steel setting, which like Kara Tur is on the same world as Faerun, take place on the same continent as the Known World.
Then include the Hollow World setting, takes place inside the planet of Mystara.
But it is true, Mystara had more material than Greyhawk ever did.
whilst I like Mystara, in fact the campaign world i'm working on in preperation for 4th ed has a glantri ripped from mystara my powerful magic, to save the magic of mystara from the artifact of rad, and plonked as an island in a new world.
I'm not sure mystara had a longer run than FR, let me see teh first references to elements of mystara ( not counting its appropriation of dave arnesons blackmoor as historical elements) were in in teh expert boxed set complete with x1. I started dnd in '82 and i beleive they had only been released a year or two earlier so lets say 1980 (i'll look up exact dates and edit later) the forgotten realms Boxed set came out if i remember correctly in about 1990 ( JUST WORKED BACK BASED ON MY AGE AND DIDNT REALISE IT WAS THAT RECENTLY) in order for Mystara to have a longer continous run than FR something would need to have been published after 1998.
This of course takes no account of the fact that FR elements were being published in dragon before the FR boxed set was published.
This is no criticism of mystara, all though I only ever played it as the d&d known world ratehr than the hollow world setting, just an indication that i'm a pedant.
This is no criticism of mystara, all though I only ever played it as the d&d known world ratehr than the hollow world setting, just an indication that i'm a pedant.
*Lol*
X1 introduced Mystara/The Known World in 1981. The last Mystara products came out in 1995, not including the Oddyssey online products for the Savage Coast that came out in 1996 or later Dragon articles. So that means Mystara had a continous run for 14-15 years. Assuming your data is correct FR had 10 years pre 3e (18 total).
Havard
*Lol*
X1 introduced Mystara/The Known World in 1981. The last Mystara products came out in 1995, not including the Oddyssey online products for the Savage Coast that came out in 1996 or later Dragon articles. So that means Mystara had a continous run for 14-15 years. Assuming your data is correct FR had 10 years pre 3e (18 total).
Havard
well according to wikipedia(ok not always the most reliable source for accurate info) the boxed Fr set was released in 1987 which is two years earlier than I remember it, but then again i get my own childrens birtdays wrong so perhaps i'm not that reliable. It also mentions H1 being released in 1985 which although its officialy part of the realms always seemed a bit of a retrofit to me.
so thats 23 years of published FR, and I've been playing and running games in there for at least 19 of those years..god i feel old today..but that may just be the hangover.
So, there is also no official progression of the history, and, contrary to the other fan websites, the Vaults' webmaster has never opted to mark anything published there as official.
Basically, there's no official Mystara beyond the TSR material. There are, though, many different takes on the setting by different people, most of them collected at the Vaults.
Which also means everyone is more then welcome to contribute his ideas, no matter how contrasting with other works (canon included).
This is the key to its success IMO
www.pandius.com forever!
Havard
www.pandius.com forever!
Here! Here!
The Tome of Mystara Page.
The Mystaran Almanac Page.
The Mystara Newbie Guide Page.
The MOrient (Mystara Orient) Page
Havard
- Martial
- Arcane
- Divine
- Psionic (could be used for Yavdlom Seers and for the cthulhoid monsters of Mystara, such as Kopru)
- Primal (Druids and Balancers, Shamans, Wokani, and the like)
- Shadow
+ two unknown (common guesses include Ki and Artifice; Ki would be useful for Myoshima and other Oriental realms, and Artifice would be used by Blackmoor, Blacklore Elves, Skygnomes, and Snartans)
I wonder if Mystara would have any unique Power Sources besides those in the Core books. The first two that come to mind are:
- Radiance (used by the Brothers of the Radiance and by Shadowelves)
- Cinnabar
Another idea:
- Nightmare (I think the Nightmare Dimension is one of the Mystara setting's distinctive attributes. Though there aren't any canonical Nightmare-powered classes that I know of, it'd be neat if there were. Some coterie-produced materials make Blackflame a Nightmare element. Perhaps the Hin Master is powered by Nightmare?)
Any other ideas?
Travis
- Shadow
This would go for the Nagpa, for example, as well as for the Secret Craft of Necromancy.
Though there aren't any canonical Nightmare-powered classes that I know of, it'd be neat if there were.
There is the Secret Craft of Illusions/Dream Mastery, which is related to the Nightmare Dimensions.
GP
Travis
This also leads to another bigger question: Why do these races have these unique artifacts in the first place, while other races don't?
I have previously toyed with the idea of making Nightmare=Shadow, but it didn't seem to find much support in the general fandom.
Havard
Could the Demihuman Relics be Power Sources? Or at least linked to such sources?
I don't think so -- at least not in general. Most Relics are convey some existing form of power (divine for the Tree of Life, Nightmare-related for the Blackflame), and in general do not need a special source (the Keepers are basically Clerics).
Note that, in general, a new source is needed when the type of powers is widely different from the other sources (e.g., magic vs. martial arts), not when the in game source is different (think e.g. the 4e Warlock, whose powers can derive from fairly different sources, but are still basically spells).
GP
I don't think so -- at least not in general. Most Relics are convey some existing form of power (divine for the Tree of Life, Nightmare-related for the Blackflame), and in general do not need a special source (the Keepers are basically Clerics).
Note that, in general, a new source is needed when the type of powers is widely different from the other sources (e.g., magic vs. martial arts), not when the in game source is different (think e.g. the 4e Warlock, whose powers can derive from fairly different sources, but are still basically spells).
Thanks for the clarifications! I tried to keep up with the changes for 4e for a while, but I have just been too lazy lately.
Seems to me it could be interesting to link the Power Sources to the Spheres:
Energy: Arcane
Matter: Martial
Thought: Psionics
Time: Divine
Entropy: Shadow?
It felt a little weird linking Divine with Time, but no more weird than linking Arcane to Energy I guess. Matter and Thought are given. If Shadow is linked to Entropy it gives it a very dark outlook, but it could be interesting. Ofcourse, if there's going to be 3(+) more power sources, we will probably have to pair up 2 per Sphere. Would feel like a Mystaran thing to do anyway.
Havard
Energy: Arcane
Matter: Martial
Thought: Psionics
Time: Divine
Entropy: Shadow?
It felt a little weird linking Divine with Time, but no more weird than linking Arcane to Energy I guess.
That's an easy one, since the spheres have been always linked to the character classes (Time : Cleric, Matter : Fighter, Energy : Wizard, Thought : Thief).
Shadow fits Entropy well, even though the scope of Shadow is somewhat wider (Illusions are likely to fall into the Shadow power source, AFAIK).
GP
That's an easy one, since the spheres have been always linked to the character classes (Time : Cleric, Matter : Fighter, Energy : Wizard, Thought : Thief).
Shadow fits Entropy well, even though the scope of Shadow is somewhat wider (Illusions are likely to fall into the Shadow power source, AFAIK).
GP
I'm more inclined to put Thought and Divine together. It may have something to do with the fact that I dislike psionics and it doesn't appear in my Mystara games. Of course that leaves me with no connection for Time, unless I put in a Natural power source that deals with running the rules of the universe.
I'm more inclined to put Thought and Divine together. It may have something to do with the fact that I dislike psionics and it doesn't appear in my Mystara games. Of course that leaves me with no connection for Time, unless I put in a Natural power source that deals with running the rules of the universe.
I could see Divine, as connected to faith, would fall under the domain of Thought as you suggest. If so, may I suggest Prophecy, the power of the Seers of Yavdlom to fall under the Sphere of Time?
Ofcourse, I could also see Divine as the power of Fate, i.e. what has been determined by the Gods, meaning it would belong with Time.
Havard
I could see Divine, as connected to faith, would fall under the domain of Thought as you suggest. If so, may I suggest Prophecy, the power of the Seers of Yavdlom to fall under the Sphere of Time?
Actually, I can imagine prophecy being a part of the Natural power source as you suggest. Since Nature attempts to keep things following the rules of the universe, prophesy taps into that power to extrapolate these rules into the future in order to see it.
Ofcourse, I could also see Divine as the power of Fate, i.e. what has been determined by the Gods, meaning it would belong with Time.
Personally, I don't find the concept of fate and 'things determined by the gods' to be very strong in the Mystara setting. The Immortals are mere manipulators and don't have firm control over anything. However, outside of Mystara that makes perfect sense.
Personally, I don't find the concept of fate and 'things determined by the gods' to be very strong in the Mystara setting. The Immortals are mere manipulators and don't have firm control over anything. However, outside of Mystara that makes perfect sense.
My wording was clumsy. Lets make it "The Power of Time represents forces Determined by Fate", Immortals simply being the agents of Fate (aka the Old Ones).
Would your "natural power" include Druidic magic? I definately see Druids falling under the Time category, as Nature is more changing than the static Matter.
Havard
My wording was clumsy. Lets make it "The Power of Time represents forces Determined by Fate", Immortals simply being the agents of Fate (aka the Old Ones).
Ah, that sounds better. ;) Actually, Fate could be the term people use because they don't understand the universal laws; similar to how superstitions are usually developed.
Would your "natural power" include Druidic magic? I definately see Druids falling under the Time category, as Nature is more changing than the static Matter.
Absolutely. Druids directly manipulate the forces and laws that dictate how the universe runs. The Nature power is definitely not static since the Sphere of Time keeps things running on interaction laws and thus 'moving along'.
The Sphere of Energy's Arcane power source would work by violating Time's laws as opposed to the Nature power source utilizing Time's laws.
That's an easy one, since the spheres have been always linked to the character classes (Time : Cleric, Matter : Fighter, Energy : Wizard, Thought : Thief).
Shadow fits Entropy well, even though the scope of Shadow is somewhat wider (Illusions are likely to fall into the Shadow power source, AFAIK).
GP
So...
Time:Leader
Matter:Defender
Energy:Controller
Thought:Striker?
I think 4e finalizes a reversal of the Wizard/Thief roles, though, leaving
Time:Leader
Matter:Defender
Energy:Striker
Thought:Controller
Spheres don't make sense to me as power sources, as I can't imagine a mortal adventure tapping into a sphere for his abilities. Associating roles with spheres seems a better fit because in this case it's merely using the power sources that do exist to further the philosophy a Sphere represents.
I think 4e finalizes a reversal of the Wizard/Thief roles, though, leaving
Time:Leader
Matter:Defender
Energy:Striker
Thought:Controller
No, the Epic Hero fits the Striker concept more than the Controller (also, Master-level Thieves are more melee capable than most other pre-4e Thieves w.r.t. Clerics).
Other than that, the Leader role fits the Dynast path well, and the Controller aspect of controlling the terrain has some affinity with the Paragon need to alter a large area.
GP