For an idea of the book's contents, see:
- "[Living Greyhawk] Languages of the Flanaess" post.
- "Languages of Greyhawk" article.
- "Languages of Bastard Greyhawk" webpage.
Game Glossaries: Each Game Glossary would include that language's version of key D&D terms, such as class names (for example, Flan for "Fighter", "Warlord", "Rogue", etc.), race names, weapons and equipment, spell names, verbal spell components, and monster names. (If it wouldn't all fit in one book, the material could be added to D&DI.)
Game Phrasebooks: Each Game Phrasebook would include a selection of phrases that are most likely to be used in 4E Social Challenge rules, or which might be used in 4E's 3-to-7 round-long combat, such as "Surrender or Die!".
To this end Wizards would have staffers or freelancers gather all the linguistic material from the entire Greyhawk corpus: all the known words and names, plus all historical linguistic infomation (such as statements that such-and-such languages are related).
Unless Wizards has a linguistics whiz on staff, Wizards would hire a linguist such as Mark Okrand (the inventor of Klingon) or David Salo (author of Gateway to Sindarin and consultant for the LotR movies) to provide solid linguistic mechanics for the invented languages, giving each a distinctive flavor, and plausible descent from various proto-languages. There would be a "tree of tongues" showing how all the languages of Greyhawk are related.
There would be a clear explanation of the nature of the Common Tongue of Oerth, either:
1) Common would be explained as being coincidentally similar to English, or,
2) Common would explained as a "translation" by Wizards of the Coast into English (or other language of translation), like how Tolkien "translated" the Common Speech of the Third Age into English. This seems better, since it would account for how the city and world of Greyhawk are called Falcongris in Spanish.
If the latter option is chosen, then etymological entries would make clear exactly which names are Anglicized (or Hispanicized, etc.) "translations" of Oerth names, such as "Greyhawk" and "Blackmoor".
Onomasticon: Each language would have an Onomasticon giving a big chart of PC name-forming elements. All Greyhawk personal and place names would have an etymology, just like real world names.
Game Alphabets: The book would include Game Alphabets for all the known scripts of Oerth.
Game Fonts: D&DI would include several Game Fonts as downloadable enhancements. This would include fonts for all the Game Alphabets, and would also ideally include all of the roman fonts used in the Greyhawk products over the years, so that DMs could type up professional-looking player handouts with a Greyhawk feel.
Travis
*This would be a companion to a Languages of D&D hardcover doing the same for all the languages mentioned in the 4E PHB, DMG, and MM, such as Dwarven, Auran, Draconic, and so on. Also, for those languages which are apparently similar or identical to Earth languages (such as Low Baklunish and Arabic, the language of Sufang and Chinese, and Olman and Nahuatl) these Game Glossaries, Phrasebooks, and so on could be included in a D&D Mythology Books series, since these real world languages are also used in other shared worlds such as Toril and Mystara (Arabic = Midani and Ylari; Chinese = Shou and Ochalean; Nahuatl = Nexalan and Azcan).
You see, none of the cultures of the Flanaess are "pure" analogues of any culture in real life.
For instance, the Suel are described as having classically Greek features (including the original Greek's blond hair)... but at the same time they have strong Nordic influences and strong Asian influences.
The Bakluni are probably the closest to a real-world culture, and even so we're talking India and Araby/Persia and Turkey.
The Flan have a Celtic culture with a lot of nomadic "Native American" mixed in.
So, what languages do you base the Greyhawk languages on?
It's a little complicated...
You see, none of the cultures of the Flanaess are "pure" analogues of any culture in real life.
[snip]
The Bakluni are probably the closest to a real-world culture, and even so we're talking India and Araby/Persia and Turkey.
The Flan have a Celtic culture with a lot of nomadic "Native American" mixed in.
So, what languages do you base the Greyhawk languages on?
No Greyhawk language would have to be based on any Earth language. Klingon is an example of a language that was intentionally designed to not resemble a human language; for example, its phonemic inventory is asymetrical (whereas all or nearly all human languages have symetrical pairs, such as /p/ and /b/, /t/ and /d/, and /k/ and /g/).
However, unlike Klingon, the extant words and names of the languages of Oerth (at least the human languages) appear to be evocative of real world human languages, rather than sci-fi alien languages. And in some cases, the languages of Oerth appear to be nearly identical to Earth languages, such Old Oeridian and Latin. Oerth languages would differ from Earth languages to a similar degree that the Greyhawk cultures differ from real world cultures, meaning that languages could evoke several Earth languages at once. For example, Tolkien designed Quenya to be primarily flavored by Finnish, but he included some Latin and Greek flavor as well.
In the same way, a Proto-Flan language (and its descendents) could be evocative of both Celtic and Native American languages (such as Arapaho). A Proto-Bakluni language (and its descendents) could be evocative of Arabic, Turkish, and Persian. It certainly could be done.
Travis
Well I believe I remember reading on one of the blogs somewhere that this may be explored as an option through a wiki dedicated to each of the worlds.
I think this subject would make a kick-ass wiki page.
If they did do a book about this, I would hope that it would let it foster there a while before they made it a Hardback.
On the other hand. I would like to see common tounge fleshed out. What are the actual common phrases. I know it's basicly the game table's common language by default, but it should have it's own flavor.
I think this subject would make a kick-ass wiki page.
I'd be happy with a wiki version if it was thoroughly-researched and well-done.
Travis
halber
You don't need a whole book just for languages.
Maybe you don't. I want one. Frankly, I want ten whole books: the Languages of D&D, of Greyhawk, Mystara, Eberron, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Birthright, Spelljammer, and of Planescape. Alright, I admit that several of these would be most fitting as digital downloads rather than as printed books. However, I believe the more popular settings might actually sell a lot of print copies.
Travis
Although as an amateur linguist who has worked to some extent on the various languages of Greyhawk, I must admit that such a book would be a non-seller, and invariably some who bought the tome would be vastly disappointed (I, for one). Case in point: the vocabulary guide given in the 2es book the Scarlet Brotherhood, for the Seul langauge. Atrocious, and it doesn't mesh well with what I had already established as suloise in my own work. A chapter or a sidebar in a setting book for WoG, sure, but not a seperate book. A wiki on this subject could be interesting, however!
I'd like to see your work - do you have a webpage or something?
I think it'd be so nifty to have at least the class names in the various languages. Such as, in Old Oeridian, perhaps: Barbarus, Bardus, Bellator, Clericus, Druidus, Furcifer, Magus, Monachus, Palatinus, Pervagatus, and Sortiarius. For another take see the Latin Wikipedia's D&D article.
Travis
Lets say that there is only enough content for part of a book. That could be the needed opportunity to eventually get this in print. What if you find another topic or two, that possess synergy, and throw in a touch of crunch? I can see a prestige class like the Frenzied Librarian of Kord ;)
Lets also keep in mind that WotC is not exactly pumping out a hardcover Greyhawk book every month (or quarter or year or presidential election cycle.) If WotC's next Greyhawk book was about languages, and it didn't do well, we might have to wait a very long time for another book. It might be better to see WotC publish a Languages of FR or Eberron first to see how well that sells.
What if you find another topic or two, that possess synergy, and throw in a touch of crunch? I can see a prestige class like the Frenzied Librarian of Kord
Yeah, I agree that some crunch would be a good idea. For Languages of GH, some character options (feats, talent trees, and prestige classes) related to Boccob and other language/knowledge-related deities, or for organizations such as the Great Library, might be fitting. At the highest class level, the Great Librarian would gain access to to the special Zagig Yragerne section in the secret vaults, containing the actual Oerth texts which TSR and WotC used to translate and write the D&D and Greyhawk books (described in "Greyhawk Meta-Text Onomastics"). Some kind of weird Talent may be associated with this knowledge.
If WotC's next Greyhawk book was about languages, and it didn't do well, we might have to wait a very long time for another book. It might be better to see WotC publish a Languages of FR or Eberron first to see how well that sells.
Yes, I also agree that the Languages of D&D, of FR, and Eberron would be the most likely to see print. A Worldbook is of course the priority for GH.
Travis
P.S. "Genghis Cohen" is one of my most favorite messageboard handles!
I would like to ask the readers of this post, other than language translations, what would also appear in this book?
As much as I hate to say it, if there was to be a new Greyhawk book out, this would not be it.
I would like to ask the readers of this post, other than language translations, what would also appear in this book?
Alphabets, Runes, personally I'm not all that linguistic so in my campaigns I mix/match alphabets and languages to fake it ie orc is russian/cryllic, clerical is hebrew/english etc and if an alphabet doesn't have a particular letter I use a dot or slash as a place holder and let them figure it out. I'd buy the book it would be a killer rescource.
oh, thieves kant is germanic runes/german
As much as I hate to say it, if there was to be a new Greyhawk book out, this would not be it.
I would like to ask the readers of this post, other than language translations, what would also appear in this book?
I'm with you on this. A book on this topic is too esoteric to ever become reality. Two or three pages on glyphs, runes and languages have always been enough for me to run a game!
The World of Greyhawk wasn't created with an eye to linguistics. I expect trying to extrapolate languages from the existing names wouldn't work. It might make for an interesting series on CF though.