Different Box Sets - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Different Box Sets

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Sep 11, 2007 2:49:05 I was wondering if anyone could give me descriptions and insight on the different box sets. I am looking over the accessories and none of them look overly useful for a 3.x campaigne, but any insight on what is worth buy would be useful, mainly in regards to:

Dragon Kings
The Ivory Triangle
Black Spine
City by the Silt Sea
#2
squidfur-
Sep 11, 2007 12:25:42
I was wondering if anyone could give me descriptions and insight on the different box sets. I am looking over the accessories and none of them look overly useful for a 3.x campaigne, but any insight on what is worth buy would be useful, mainly in regards to:

Dragon Kings
The Ivory Triangle
Black Spine
City by the Silt Sea

Dragon Kings is rather heavy on rules, all of which are outdated.
Ivory Triangle, on the other hand, is almost entirely fluff material. If you plan to run your campaign anywhere near the region (ie. Gulg or Nibenay), this accessory is a must-have - if not, you might pass on this one.
As an adventure, Black Spine requires alot of updating to the new rule system. As this is, IMO, the worst of the adventures, it might not be worth the headache.
City by the Silt Sea contains invaluable material for a jaunt through Giustenal, as well as lots of nifty info on Dregoth. The short adventure would need some updating (a lot of which is already done in Dregoth Ascending) but worth the effort.

Hope that helps.

Oh yeah, as far as the box sets go, if your to buy only one I'd go for the revision. It's not as well written, and departs from the original feel of the setting, but has so much more information as to outway the cons.
#3
Sysane
Sep 11, 2007 13:22:54
As an adventure, Black Spine requires alot of updating to the new rule system. As this is, IMO, the worst of the adventures, it might not be worth the headache.

I'd like to interject that IMO Black Spine was an excellent adventure.

Some feel that it stretches DS canon with the gith/githyanki connection theory where I (and others) felt that it added a very cool dimension to the setting.

I highly recommend picking it up.
#4
j0lt
Sep 13, 2007 6:28:20
Some feel that it stretches DS canon with the gith/githyanki connection theory where I (and others) felt that it added a very cool dimension to the setting.

I've never played it, but I read through it and I gotta agree with you Sysane. I thought it was an interesting twist that wasn't TOO out there.

Personally my favourite box set is City by the Silt Sea. I *ALMOST* picked it up at a gaming store while I was on vacation, but I bought d20 Modern's Urban Arcana instead. It was a painful choice because I really wanted both.
#5
Cainin
Sep 13, 2007 8:12:14 Dragon Kings
Technically this is just a hard bound book, not a boxed set. But I'm digressing...

While the nuts & bolts aspect of this book was for 2nd Ed DS, it was the best book I've ever seen that specifically focused on the concepts of an Epic level campaign. When I ran a game that achieved Epic status, I often refered to Dragon Kings for inspiration. With so little guidelines to work from the WOTC 3.0 Epic Handbook, my Dragon Kings book was another vital source to help me clarify the Epic concepts. Heck, they even had 2nd Ed DS equivilents of Epic spells in there. Talk about a book full of Epic insights.

There was also some fluff elements that I found interesting. I liked the variouis Athasian legends section and the intro stories found at the beginning of the major class archetypes. On top of that, it gave information on the Epic organization called the Order. As if that wasn't enough, the dragon / avaigon metamorphasis artwork also help for visualizations.
#6
denbyak
Sep 13, 2007 8:18:49 I have some of the suppliment books but I dont remember being all that many. The gladiator, elves..cant remember if there was many more. Anyone? I find the artwork and stories always great especially for new players to darksun since they tend to have a background in "Traditional" settings.
#7
Cainin
Sep 13, 2007 10:20:16 Lucky enough, I just compiled the non-module DS producst a week ago while I'm gathering PDF versions of the DS supplements. Here you go with their names & TSR product #'s...

2400 - (Original) Core Rules
2404 - Slave Tribes
2405 - Monster Compendium I: Terrors of the Desert
2407 - Dune Trader
2408 - Dragon Kings
2411 - Veiled Alliance
2413 - Valley of Dust & Fire
2418 - Ivory Triangle
2419 - Complete Gladiators Handbook
2420 - City State of Tyr
2422 - Earh Air Fire Water
2423 - Elves of Athas
2431 - The Will & the Way
2432 - City by the Silt Sea
2433 - Monester Compedium II: Terrors Beyond Tyr
2437 - Thri-kreen of Athas
2438 - Revised Core Rules
2439 - Wind Riders of Jagged Cliffs
2441 - Beyond Prism Pentad
2444 - Mind Lords of Last Sea
2445 - Defilers & Preservers
2446 - Psionic Artifacts of Athas

Hope that helps.
#8
denbyak
Sep 13, 2007 10:51:08 Helps alot! I would be interested in the PDFs let me know what happens please.
#9
Cainin
Sep 13, 2007 12:11:25 Well if you're interested in purchasing PDFs, RPG Now has all of the old DS stuff for $4.95 each. Which is a heck of a deal, though to purhcase the items I previously listed would still cost you around $120. While that is still a real savings over cover prices, it is still a bit of change.

http://www.rpgnow.com/index.php?cPath=159_2048_2054

There's the direct link to the DS subpage on RPG Now. Though both modules and supplement products are mixed in together.

Eric Sweeney
#10
flip
Sep 13, 2007 15:05:52 http://athas.org/products.php lists all of the TSR products.

Unfortunately the ESD links on the page are obsolete, pointing to a store that no longer exists. You can find the products through a quick search at RPGnow, as Cainin says.

I'd update the links on site, but I'm (actively!) working on replaceing the entire site at the moment, so it's not really worth it.
#11
denbyak
Sep 14, 2007 10:06:00 Hey thanks. I think its a great price for an interesting read. I was just thinking about the legality of scanning the stuff I got now and giving it to ppl. Does anyone know since its not supported material anymore if thats ok or not?
#12
j0lt
Sep 14, 2007 10:54:21 It's not legal. The copyright will remain in effect for quite a while. (50 years?)
#13
zombiegleemax
Sep 14, 2007 14:36:21 Dragon Kings is the most useful out of all the "Boxed" sets.

The maps to Gulg and Nibenay were nice, but they lacked the creativity of the Tyr City map for some reason.

Hey thanks. I think its a great price for an interesting read. I was just thinking about the legality of scanning the stuff I got now and giving it to ppl. Does anyone know since its not supported material anymore if thats ok or not?

Not legal, but you're not really going to be in trouble. Dark Sun is a dead issue (no offense people) and there's no one worried about not making money off of it anymore. It will cost too much to hire a lawyer and pursue it.

Just look at Napster. It took years and millions and millions of downloads before anything was done.

You're safe to make as many copies as you want. The creators of Dark Sun will probably be happy you're still interested in their work and you want to share it with others.
#14
terminus_vortexa
Sep 14, 2007 14:55:47 I'm 99% sure the scan thing has been done. Even if not, chances are high that someone who bought the files from RPGNow is sharing them, using the common methods.
#15
flip
Sep 14, 2007 18:43:00
Not legal, but you're not really going to be in trouble. Dark Sun is a dead issue (no offense people) and there's no one worried about not making money off of it anymore. It will cost too much to hire a lawyer and pursue it.

Regardless of how little risk you think you're taking on, it's in exceedinly poor taste to advocate stealing copyrighted works on a forum hosted by the owner of that copyright.

The PDFs are five dollars. That's an hour working at McDonald's.
#16
cnahumck
Sep 14, 2007 22:55:48
The PDFs are five dollars. That's an hour working at McDonald's.

Less than, with the new minimum wage since you wouldn't pay enough in taxes to effect your pay (though don't get me started on minimum vs. living wage).
#17
zombiegleemax
Sep 14, 2007 23:02:16 unless you are selling pdf copies or handing out thousands of copies to people i dont think its an issue.

file sharing with close friends ( zip driving a pdf copy and downloading it on your buddies pc) probably wont get you in trouble if you only use it for personal gaming and dont make any money off it. handing out free copies to hundreds of people would probably be a violation.
#18
huntercc
Sep 15, 2007 0:04:18
Regardless of how little risk you think you're taking on, it's in exceedinly poor taste to advocate stealing copyrighted works on a forum hosted by the owner of that copyright.

The PDFs are five dollars. That's an hour working at McDonald's.

Agreed - if you need to discuss this, might be a good idea to continue it via email rather than on a public message board hosted by the copyright owner!
#19
zombiegleemax
Sep 15, 2007 1:50:30
Regardless of how little risk you think you're taking on, it's in exceedinly poor taste to advocate stealing copyrighted works on a forum hosted by the owner of that copyright.

The PDFs are five dollars. That's an hour working at McDonald's.

Before the internet, we used to photo copy each other's books, well, important charts for RPG games.

What? So now we're all theives because we didn't run to our local game store and buy a copy...?

Are we that materialistic?

Nevermind...Long live Kalak!!!
#20
j0lt
Sep 15, 2007 4:02:54 Charts and character sheets are one thing, wholesale copying of an entire book is different. And yes, it is stealing.
#21
pringles
Sep 15, 2007 7:44:30 Some people here should grow up. Wizard is owned by Hasbro, a BILLONAIRE company that no longer support Dark sun, so who care????. Its not like they needed you buy dark sun PDF so they can feed there kid.

As for the other who dont bother sharing the knowledge, use E-mule or other p2p. You will be proud to have read every DS material, and that will improve your game.

Long live Kalak!
#22
j0lt
Sep 15, 2007 9:14:00 Yes, it's much more resonable and mature to steal from rich companies.
You can rationalize theft any way you want, but you're only fooling yourself.
#23
zombiegleemax
Sep 17, 2007 23:54:55 If you are only copying it to say your play groups computers, I am not really sure how that would differ from letting your friends borrow the book (which I would hope is both legal and considered morally exceptable). I agree it is a little different as you both now have a copy, but that is sort of the give and take of technology, as a pdf file is in someways harder to transport then an actual book. In all reality all the extra books are not needed, and I know my play group tried not to buy the same books as each other as when we will most likely need them is when we will have one at hand via friend anyway.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 11, 2007 2:49:05	I was wondering if anyone could give me descriptions and insight on the different box sets. I am looking over the accessories and none of them look overly useful for a 3.x campaigne, but any insight on what is worth buy would be useful, mainly in regards to: Dragon Kings The Ivory Triangle Black Spine City by the Silt Sea
#2 squidfur- Sep 11, 2007 12:25:42	I was wondering if anyone could give me descriptions and insight on the different box sets. I am looking over the accessories and none of them look overly useful for a 3.x campaigne, but any insight on what is worth buy would be useful, mainly in regards to: Dragon Kings The Ivory Triangle Black Spine City by the Silt Sea Dragon Kings is rather heavy on rules, all of which are outdated. Ivory Triangle, on the other hand, is almost entirely fluff material. If you plan to run your campaign anywhere near the region (ie. Gulg or Nibenay), this accessory is a must-have - if not, you might pass on this one. As an adventure, Black Spine requires alot of updating to the new rule system. As this is, IMO, the worst of the adventures, it might not be worth the headache. City by the Silt Sea contains invaluable material for a jaunt through Giustenal, as well as lots of nifty info on Dregoth. The short adventure would need some updating (a lot of which is already done in Dregoth Ascending) but worth the effort. Hope that helps. Oh yeah, as far as the box sets go, if your to buy only one I'd go for the revision. It's not as well written, and departs from the original feel of the setting, but has so much more information as to outway the cons.
#3 Sysane Sep 11, 2007 13:22:54	As an adventure, Black Spine requires alot of updating to the new rule system. As this is, IMO, the worst of the adventures, it might not be worth the headache. I'd like to interject that IMO Black Spine was an excellent adventure. Some feel that it stretches DS canon with the gith/githyanki connection theory where I (and others) felt that it added a very cool dimension to the setting. I highly recommend picking it up.
#4 j0lt Sep 13, 2007 6:28:20	Some feel that it stretches DS canon with the gith/githyanki connection theory where I (and others) felt that it added a very cool dimension to the setting. I've never played it, but I read through it and I gotta agree with you Sysane. I thought it was an interesting twist that wasn't TOO out there. Personally my favourite box set is City by the Silt Sea. I ALMOST picked it up at a gaming store while I was on vacation, but I bought d20 Modern's Urban Arcana instead. It was a painful choice because I really wanted both.
#5 Cainin Sep 13, 2007 8:12:14	Dragon Kings Technically this is just a hard bound book, not a boxed set. But I'm digressing... While the nuts & bolts aspect of this book was for 2nd Ed DS, it was the best book I've ever seen that specifically focused on the concepts of an Epic level campaign. When I ran a game that achieved Epic status, I often refered to Dragon Kings for inspiration. With so little guidelines to work from the WOTC 3.0 Epic Handbook, my Dragon Kings book was another vital source to help me clarify the Epic concepts. Heck, they even had 2nd Ed DS equivilents of Epic spells in there. Talk about a book full of Epic insights. There was also some fluff elements that I found interesting. I liked the variouis Athasian legends section and the intro stories found at the beginning of the major class archetypes. On top of that, it gave information on the Epic organization called the Order. As if that wasn't enough, the dragon / avaigon metamorphasis artwork also help for visualizations.
#6 denbyak Sep 13, 2007 8:18:49	I have some of the suppliment books but I dont remember being all that many. The gladiator, elves..cant remember if there was many more. Anyone? I find the artwork and stories always great especially for new players to darksun since they tend to have a background in "Traditional" settings.
#7 Cainin Sep 13, 2007 10:20:16	Lucky enough, I just compiled the non-module DS producst a week ago while I'm gathering PDF versions of the DS supplements. Here you go with their names & TSR product #'s... 2400 - (Original) Core Rules 2404 - Slave Tribes 2405 - Monster Compendium I: Terrors of the Desert 2407 - Dune Trader 2408 - Dragon Kings 2411 - Veiled Alliance 2413 - Valley of Dust & Fire 2418 - Ivory Triangle 2419 - Complete Gladiators Handbook 2420 - City State of Tyr 2422 - Earh Air Fire Water 2423 - Elves of Athas 2431 - The Will & the Way 2432 - City by the Silt Sea 2433 - Monester Compedium II: Terrors Beyond Tyr 2437 - Thri-kreen of Athas 2438 - Revised Core Rules 2439 - Wind Riders of Jagged Cliffs 2441 - Beyond Prism Pentad 2444 - Mind Lords of Last Sea 2445 - Defilers & Preservers 2446 - Psionic Artifacts of Athas Hope that helps.
#8 denbyak Sep 13, 2007 10:51:08	Helps alot! I would be interested in the PDFs let me know what happens please.
#9 Cainin Sep 13, 2007 12:11:25	Well if you're interested in purchasing PDFs, RPG Now has all of the old DS stuff for $4.95 each. Which is a heck of a deal, though to purhcase the items I previously listed would still cost you around $120. While that is still a real savings over cover prices, it is still a bit of change. http://www.rpgnow.com/index.php?cPath=159_2048_2054 There's the direct link to the DS subpage on RPG Now. Though both modules and supplement products are mixed in together. Eric Sweeney
#10 flip Sep 13, 2007 15:05:52	http://athas.org/products.php lists all of the TSR products. Unfortunately the ESD links on the page are obsolete, pointing to a store that no longer exists. You can find the products through a quick search at RPGnow, as Cainin says. I'd update the links on site, but I'm (actively!) working on replaceing the entire site at the moment, so it's not really worth it.
#11 denbyak Sep 14, 2007 10:06:00	Hey thanks. I think its a great price for an interesting read. I was just thinking about the legality of scanning the stuff I got now and giving it to ppl. Does anyone know since its not supported material anymore if thats ok or not?
#12 j0lt Sep 14, 2007 10:54:21	It's not legal. The copyright will remain in effect for quite a while. (50 years?)
#13 zombiegleemax Sep 14, 2007 14:36:21	Dragon Kings is the most useful out of all the "Boxed" sets. The maps to Gulg and Nibenay were nice, but they lacked the creativity of the Tyr City map for some reason. Hey thanks. I think its a great price for an interesting read. I was just thinking about the legality of scanning the stuff I got now and giving it to ppl. Does anyone know since its not supported material anymore if thats ok or not? Not legal, but you're not really going to be in trouble. Dark Sun is a dead issue (no offense people) and there's no one worried about not making money off of it anymore. It will cost too much to hire a lawyer and pursue it. Just look at Napster. It took years and millions and millions of downloads before anything was done. You're safe to make as many copies as you want. The creators of Dark Sun will probably be happy you're still interested in their work and you want to share it with others.
#14 terminus_vortexa Sep 14, 2007 14:55:47	I'm 99% sure the scan thing has been done. Even if not, chances are high that someone who bought the files from RPGNow is sharing them, using the common methods.
#15 flip Sep 14, 2007 18:43:00	Not legal, but you're not really going to be in trouble. Dark Sun is a dead issue (no offense people) and there's no one worried about not making money off of it anymore. It will cost too much to hire a lawyer and pursue it. Regardless of how little risk you think you're taking on, it's in exceedinly poor taste to advocate stealing copyrighted works on a forum hosted by the owner of that copyright. The PDFs are five dollars. That's an hour working at McDonald's.
#16 cnahumck Sep 14, 2007 22:55:48	The PDFs are five dollars. That's an hour working at McDonald's. Less than, with the new minimum wage since you wouldn't pay enough in taxes to effect your pay (though don't get me started on minimum vs. living wage).
#17 zombiegleemax Sep 14, 2007 23:02:16	unless you are selling pdf copies or handing out thousands of copies to people i dont think its an issue. file sharing with close friends ( zip driving a pdf copy and downloading it on your buddies pc) probably wont get you in trouble if you only use it for personal gaming and dont make any money off it. handing out free copies to hundreds of people would probably be a violation.
#18 huntercc Sep 15, 2007 0:04:18	Regardless of how little risk you think you're taking on, it's in exceedinly poor taste to advocate stealing copyrighted works on a forum hosted by the owner of that copyright. The PDFs are five dollars. That's an hour working at McDonald's. Agreed - if you need to discuss this, might be a good idea to continue it via email rather than on a public message board hosted by the copyright owner!
#19 zombiegleemax Sep 15, 2007 1:50:30	Regardless of how little risk you think you're taking on, it's in exceedinly poor taste to advocate stealing copyrighted works on a forum hosted by the owner of that copyright. The PDFs are five dollars. That's an hour working at McDonald's. Before the internet, we used to photo copy each other's books, well, important charts for RPG games. What? So now we're all theives because we didn't run to our local game store and buy a copy...? Are we that materialistic? Nevermind...Long live Kalak!!!
#20 j0lt Sep 15, 2007 4:02:54	Charts and character sheets are one thing, wholesale copying of an entire book is different. And yes, it is stealing.
#21 pringles Sep 15, 2007 7:44:30	Some people here should grow up. Wizard is owned by Hasbro, a BILLONAIRE company that no longer support Dark sun, so who care????. Its not like they needed you buy dark sun PDF so they can feed there kid. As for the other who dont bother sharing the knowledge, use E-mule or other p2p. You will be proud to have read every DS material, and that will improve your game. Long live Kalak!
#22 j0lt Sep 15, 2007 9:14:00	Yes, it's much more resonable and mature to steal from rich companies. You can rationalize theft any way you want, but you're only fooling yourself.
#23 zombiegleemax Sep 17, 2007 23:54:55	If you are only copying it to say your play groups computers, I am not really sure how that would differ from letting your friends borrow the book (which I would hope is both legal and considered morally exceptable). I agree it is a little different as you both now have a copy, but that is sort of the give and take of technology, as a pdf file is in someways harder to transport then an actual book. In all reality all the extra books are not needed, and I know my play group tried not to buy the same books as each other as when we will most likely need them is when we will have one at hand via friend anyway.