Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 14, 2007 6:14:24	I'm talking old school here. Gary Gygax, from 1985. Kara-Tur! My strongest belief is that people who don't really like OA have never played it... or are confused by all the jumbled mess created when OA was integrated with L5R for 3E. The Honor system was an awsome tool for plot driven side adventures, roleplay possibilities, and a great chance to thrive by playing your character correctly. The martial arts system *GASP* actually made sense. The ninja was a strong character class, even including a note of warning to the DM. Also, the ninja was a true stealth class... you had to have levels in another class as a cover. And the Katana was more than a curved long-sword. It was truly the masterwork weapon of its age. All this, and you only needed to buy the one book to play. And as it was copywrited to TSR, Wizards should now own the right to update it to 4E.
#2 Luis_Carlos Sep 14, 2007 9:34:36	Don´t worry. I´m totally sure OA will be one of the first almost-core in the 4th Edition. I would like the return of the race of ratking/nezumi, and some monster class like tengu (crowfolk), the oni or the wan-liang And I suggest optional class to doing martial class without armour to doing oriental variants of style of monk. I would like a bit of Middle Orient too, like the tale of 1001 nights, for example the character class of Sha' ir
#3 the_ubbergeek Sep 14, 2007 10:58:43	And Maztica, perhaps generic.
#4 aesthete Sep 14, 2007 15:56:54	But when OA comes back. please don't involve L5R in the main book.
#5 Luis_Carlos Sep 14, 2007 16:37:58	Don´t worry. Rokugan is copyright from AEG and you don´t will see d20 Rokugan any more. I think OA will be a 100% rules "almost-core" title, and a second scoucerbook about Kara-tur (from Forgotten Realms) will be 100% background. About Maztica, I don´t known, but it could be a great to altenative fantasy-western setting with a touch of Pulp.
#6 bigmac Sep 17, 2007 16:32:37	I'm talking old school here. Gary Gygax, from 1985. Kara-Tur! My strongest belief is that people who don't really like OA have never played it... or are confused by all the jumbled mess created when OA was integrated with L5R for 3E. I missed the original version of Oriental Adventures, and when the 3e version of Oriental Adventures came out I was really excited about it. So excited that I couldn't wait to buy it. I skimmed through it in the shop... ...but then... ...I saw this introduction telling me that it had been "improved" and started to worry. And as I read on I realised that they had ripped out Kara-Tur. I was absolutely gutted. It wasn't Oriental Adventures - it was an imposter. (In the same way that the 3e Ravenloft was an imposter that didn't have the Demiplane of Dread.) I'd love to see a 4th edition version of Kara-Tur, but I'm not touching any other oriental campaign setting with a barge pole. I would like to see Oriental Adventures come back with Kara-Tur fully integrated into it. And I would also like to see WotC release the core oriental rules under the OGL as an Oriental SRD. Doing this would allow 3rd party publishers to sell oriental games that work with the PHB and OA. And if 3rd party publishers make 4th edition oriental gamebooks then Kara-Tur DMs can use those books in their games.
#7 To11 Sep 17, 2007 17:25:55	I hope that they don't use Kara-Tur or Rokugan as a base setting. Rather, I would like a 4th edition OA to be more setting neutral (with an assumed setting, of course, but one that is as flexible as what they do for the 4th edition PHB). The Lo5R stuff was an awkward fit, I thought, and I think it is telling that the designer did not use Rokugan as his primary setting (James Wyatt ran an Indian/Southeast Asia themed campaign called Mahasarpa). Kara-Tur is nicely generic, but it is also tied to the Forgotten Realms, and should probably be detailed in its own supplement. With OA they could take many different approaches to class design. They could introduce a Ki power source that could include Samurai (Defenders), Monks (Strikers), Ninja (Strikers), and perhaps Sohei (Leaders). Of course, it sounds like many of the classes they are designing for 4e could work in an OA setting - the Warlord, Fighter, and Rogue for example. As a quick aside, it would also be nice if we saw OA iconics. Spellcasting classes have always been less well explored in OA - the Wu Jen should feel much different from the Wizard (the 4e wizard is looking more flavorful, that can only mean good things for classes like the Shugenja and Wu Jen). Instead of a Divine Power Source we could have a Mystical or Spiritual Power source - that could be shared by the Wu Jen and a Shaman-type class (as the Wu Jen was often described as trafficing with spirits, but never really given many abilities to reflect that).
#8 zombiegleemax Sep 18, 2007 22:24:28	Since the Maztica setting was a sort of reference to the Conquistador era, I wonder whether an OA setting could be done (possibly as an alternative) with a premise roughly similar to the events that led up to the Meiji Restoration: a sudden, forced influx of "Western" magic, knowledge, ideas and power forces the previously-harmonious system that had guided that part of the world for centuries into crisis and finally causes it to come tumbling down and something entirely new to emerge in its place. It would be the perfect setting for analogues of the Nameless Samurai of Yojimbo, of characters who fuse Eastern and Western sorceries into something unique and original, albeit dangerous as hell, and so forth. And when the crisis comes, legends would emerge like the infamous Hattori Battousai.
#9 smoker Oct 08, 2007 21:13:12	I all ways thought OA was just a blend of popular martial arts movies. But I would like to see an eastern setting return. smoker
#10 merrikcale Oct 08, 2007 22:28:34	And Maztica, perhaps generic. dear lord no. Kara-Tur definately. Al-Qadim. sure. Please no Maztica. Let it fade into oblivion
#11 smoker Oct 08, 2007 22:32:13	dear lord no. Kara-Tur definately. Al-Qadim. sure. Please no Maztica. Let it fade into oblivion Sure. Bring it back. Then I can play Cheech, and you can play Chong. smoker
#12 the_ubbergeek Oct 08, 2007 22:44:58	dear lord no. Kara-Tur definately. Al-Qadim. sure. Please no Maztica. Let it fade into oblivion No, because at least, it had REAL potential. Mister or Miss Mystara. I find it ironic that a MYSTARA fan say that. That could be forgotten as well.
#13 caeruleus Oct 09, 2007 23:31:42	Sure. Bring it back. Then I can play Cheech, and you can play Chong. smoker This is a fitting comment from someone named "smoker". ;)
#14 the_ubbergeek Oct 10, 2007 0:29:47	A note - perhaps change the name for something less... Old 70s clichés, maybe.
#15 peterweller Oct 10, 2007 0:35:03	dear lord no. Kara-Tur definately. Al-Qadim. sure. Please no Maztica. Let it fade into oblivion Man, why do people always bag on Maztica? Is it because the Aztec analogues were the bad guys? Sure, that's "insensitive," but it doesn't make it a bad setting. Anyways, Maztica shouldn't be in an OA book, since it isn't "Oriental." Neither should Al Qadim, for that matter. Each, or at least their base premises deserve their own book. A nice "African Adventures" book would also be choice. I remember a really solid 2E era Dragon article about Sub Saharan Africa based adventures.
#16 Tenzhi Oct 10, 2007 1:14:42	A good OA release is a must, but I'd almost rather have a revamped Dragonfist. Like the d20 one we were supposed to get from Chris Pramas via Green Ronin. But if an OA released had enough of the Chanbara and Wuxia flavours going on, it might make me forget all about Dragonfist.
#17 Steely_Dan Oct 10, 2007 5:06:32	A nice "African Adventures" book would also be choice. Have you checked out Nyambe?
#18 havard Oct 10, 2007 5:24:42	No, because at least, it had REAL potential. Mister or Miss Mystara. I find it ironic that a MYSTARA fan say that. That could be forgotten as well. I'm not Merrik, but I don't see the irony here. OTOH, I don't agree that Maztika should fade into oblivion. I think the main problem with Maztika is that the existing material wasn't very good. I picked it up hoping I could use it to expand upon my Hollow World Azcan stuff, but I was disappointed. Still, I like the idea of a Cortez era Latin America with evil Aztecs type campaign. Havard
#19 Steely_Dan Oct 10, 2007 5:52:21	OTOH, I don't agree that Maztika should fade into oblivion. I think the main problem with Maztika is that the existing material wasn't very good. The Maztican drow were cool. *ducks*
#20 hazhar Oct 10, 2007 9:28:01	Still, I like the idea of a Cortez era Latin America with evil Aztecs type campaign. Havard I'd much prefer a Moctezuma II era Latin America with evil Spaniards type campaign :P
#21 the_ubbergeek Oct 10, 2007 10:21:49	I'd much prefer a Moctezuma II era Latin America with evil Spaniards type campaign :P peoples missed the fact in the recent history, the faerunians where not - and still not are much - very nice to the natives, and that it's not 'evil natives, good foreigners', but something more complex. The clergy of Helm had a big black note in history there, and words speak that something similar happened in the Moonshea isles. I would like it to still exist - one of my most famous character was a mercenary veteran who left Faerun for the mysterious lands across the sea like in the classic cartoon "The Mysterious Cities of Gold". (If you think Maztica is uninspiring, watch that cartoon.)
#22 merrikcale Oct 15, 2007 20:18:37	No, because at least, it had REAL potential. Mister or Miss Mystara. I find it ironic that a MYSTARA fan say that. That could be forgotten as well. Now you're saying Maztica is more interesting than Mystara? Please. I go back nearly thirty years with old Expert Light Blue Book and the later gazeteers. Much more interesting than Maztica. And I've been in the Realms since '87 and the first boxed set.
#23 merrikcale Oct 15, 2007 20:19:42	Man, why do people always bag on Maztica? because it sucked canal water
#24 the_ubbergeek Oct 15, 2007 23:56:05	Now you're saying Maztica is more interesting than Mystara? Please. I go back nearly thirty years with old Expert Light Blue Book and the later gazeteers. Much more interesting than Maztica. And I've been in the Realms since '87 and the first boxed set. If Mystara was so great to be frank, why Greyhawk finaly won the hand, before FR was published and all? Maztica was good, in fact. Or maybe just not your tastes, like Mystara is not mine. Set, won?
#25 peterweller Oct 16, 2007 1:24:23	Now you're saying Maztica is more interesting than Mystara? Please. I go back nearly thirty years with old Expert Light Blue Book and the later gazeteers. Much more interesting than Maztica. And I've been in the Realms since '87 and the first boxed set. I like Mystara and all, but seriously, it makes Greyhawk seem as unique and "mold breaking" as Dark Sun.
#26 havard Oct 16, 2007 15:11:57	If Mystara was so great to be frank, why Greyhawk finaly won the hand, before FR was published and all? * Because it was the first published D&D setting. * Because it was created by Gary Gygax * Because WotC wanted to attract some of the 1e crowd that were lost when 2e came around (Like Barbarians and Half-Orcs). This is not a GH bash, but I think the above were the decisive reasons for using GH as a default setting for 3E. Havard
#27 havard Oct 16, 2007 15:16:16	I like Mystara and all, but seriously, it makes Greyhawk seem as unique and "mold breaking" as Dark Sun. Mystara, Greyhawk and DS were all Mold Breaking in their time. Mystara suffers from never having been marketed well. Not because its lacking in originality or quality. Dont let this discussion end in setting bashing folks. Havard
#28 merrikcale Oct 16, 2007 20:26:44	* Because it was the first published D&D setting. * Because it was created by Gary Gygax * Because WotC wanted to attract some of the 1e crowd that were lost when 2e came around (Like Barbarians and Half-Orcs). This is not a GH bash, but I think the above were the decisive reasons for using GH as a default setting for 3E. Havard #2 is probably the most important. Lets not forget Mystara has more game materials published on it then Greyhawk and pretty much any setting absent the Realms. The Gazeteers from way back when formed the basis of the supplements we have today
#29 the_ubbergeek Oct 17, 2007 0:37:20	I was speaking in the TSR days about the 'when GH won'.... False; a lot of so-caleld 'mystara' material is in fact made to be generic - a fact sort of shown by the mystaran Blackmoor. The idea that GH have LESS material is risible, considering that it survived up to our days at least (more or less). For many gamers, in anways, Mystara is passé, even more than Greyhawk. or forgotten. Maybe for good reason?
#30 Steely_Dan Oct 17, 2007 6:19:28	Mystara suffers from never having been marketed well. Not because its lacking in originality or quality. Totally, it even has that Japanese flavoured moon (Myoshima?). And Hollow World was a totally innovative campaign setting.
#31 havard Oct 17, 2007 9:12:18	I was speaking in the TSR days about the 'when GH won'.... When did Greyhawk win under TSR? Back when Gary was in charge, sure but later? False; a lot of so-caleld 'mystara' material is in fact made to be generic - a fact sort of shown by the mystaran Blackmoor. It is less generic than it may seem. The DA Blackmoor modules were carefully written into the Mystara setting and Blackmoor is a central part of Mystaran history, being referenced in nearly every Mystara product. The idea that GH have LESS material is risible, considering that it survived up to our days at least (more or less). I think whoever mentioned this clearly stated that this was prior to 3E. Mystara had a unique position being the only default setting of the Classic D&D line for most of its run. For a complete list of Mystara products, see: http://www.pandius.com/prodlist.html For many gamers, in anways, Mystara is passé, even more than Greyhawk. or forgotten. Maybe for good reason? Check out the Mystara forum on this board. It is definately not forgotten. Also see www.pandius.com for continued support by fans. I will never claim that it is better than any of the other wonderful settings produced by TSR, but it remains a favorite among quite a few of us. You declaring Mystara and Greyhawk passé doesn't neccesarily make it so. Havard
#32 havard Oct 17, 2007 9:16:22	Totally, it even has that Japanese flavoured moon (Myoshima?). With a brand new fan written gazetteer available now: http://pandius.com/themoons.html And Hollow World was a totally innovative campaign setting. IMO the HW was probably the most underrated of all of TSR's settings. Havard
#33 peterweller Oct 18, 2007 14:24:03	IMO the HW was probably the most underrated of all of TSR's settings. Havard I agree 110%
#34 Steely_Dan Oct 19, 2007 2:00:22	IMO the HW was probably the most underrated of all of TSR's settings. Absolutely, it was the Dark Sun before Dark Sun if my memory serves? Oh, and thanks for the Myoshima link.
#35 havard Oct 19, 2007 6:41:18	Absolutely, it was the Dark Sun before Dark Sun if my memory serves? The HW boxed set came out in 1990, a year before Dark Sun IIRC. Not sure if I'd call DS underrated, but its definately a cool and innovative setting as well Oh, and thanks for the Myoshima link. No problem I suspect a revised version is on its way, possibly with art and such... Havard
#36 Steely_Dan Oct 19, 2007 6:47:39	Not sure if I'd call DS underrated, but its definately a cool and innovative setting as well Oh, I didn't mean that Dark Sun was underrated; just that Hollow World had some slightly Athasian flavour before there was an "Athas". ...If you know what I mean?
#37 havard Oct 19, 2007 8:02:52	Oh, I didn't mean that Dark Sun was underrated; just that Hollow World had some slightly Athasian flavour before there was an "Athas". ...If you know what I mean? Uhm, not really. Granted Im much more familiar with HW than Dark Sun, but I always saw the two as quite different? Please elaborate? Havard
#38 Steely_Dan Oct 26, 2007 5:50:27	Well if we get a 4th Ed OA and a Ki power source I was thinking the classes/roles might be something like: Monk – Striker Ninja - Striker Samurai – Defender Shaman - Leader Shugenja - Leader Sohei - Defender Wu-Jen - Controller ? - Controller
#39 ranger_reg Oct 27, 2007 3:14:28	We may not need separate class for the samurai, if 4e is very customizable. I just hope they present more than one form of samurai archetypes, and not just the Musashi-clone presented in CW. I'd like to see more expansive cultural material, but I draw the line with the Persian/Middle East, as they should be better covered in a separate book (appropriately titled Arabian Adventures). Unless WotC do away with default "example" setting for their core rulebooks, I'd like Kara-Tur -- with its various cultures --to be the default "example" setting for Oriental Adventures