The Dark Sun retcon? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

The Dark Sun retcon?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Zardnaar
Sep 15, 2007 21:47:57 Alot of Star Wars material has been retconned to make it fit into the established universe. Lets be honest theres more than a few contradictions in various DS books.

Heres a few retcons I've thought of.

1. When did Rajaats Champions become Dragons? The 2 schools of thought seem to believe they became Dragons at the start of the Cleansing Wars or at the end of the Cleansing when they became Sorceror-Kings. The primary material says very little on it but Rise and Fall of a Dragon Kings says that they were Dragons during the Cleansing Wars and Rajaat turns Hamanu into one towards the end. Additionally City By the Silt Sea seems to indcate Dregoth was a Dragon when he took control of Giustanel. If they became Dragons at he end of the Cleansing Wars Dregoth went form a level 21 Dragoin to 29 in 80 odd years and managed to rule his city during his Dragon rage. The compromise viewpint would be Dregoth was an exception and became a Dragon sometime during the Cleansing Wars while the other Champions became Dragons at the end of the Cleansing Wars when they became Sorceror Kings. Since the timeline doesn't specifiically state when they became Dragons and based on existing material from 2nd ed I would just go with the fact they were Dragons at the start of the Cleansing Wars and Rajaat turned them into level 21 Dragons (or 1st stage Dragons) so as to make them immortal as the Cleansing Wars wouyld take centuries to complete.

2. Halflings as preservers. The original boxed set let Halflings be presevers while the revised boxed set didn't allow them to be preservers. 3.0 made the arguement irrelevent as now their are no racial restrictions on class. I would retcon this by saying most wizards are human/elf/half-elf while a rare few halflings are preservers. Wizards of other races wile theoretically possable are extremely rare while a Halfling Defiler is unheard of. Perhaps the rebirth is still contining and recent mutations/evolution has allowed modern races to learn wizard powers where the races in Rajaats time where either unable to practice it or perhaps Rajaat found humans alot easier to teach or were more corruptable than most Halflings who couldn't/wouldn't defile.

Any others?
#2
squidfur-
Sep 15, 2007 23:25:21 Check out the Contradiction threads in the Archive.
#3
dasch_dup
Sep 16, 2007 0:57:18
1. When did Rajaats Champions become Dragons?

I go with the RaFoaDK idea myself. It makes perfect sense that Rajaat began their metamorphosis for them in the Steeple of Crystals. My main reason for going this route is because I feel that Rajaat wanted them to be able to grant their followers, the early templars, spells to help the Champions during the Cleansing Wars. I don't like the idea that the vortexes found the SKs by accident or that Borys somehow gained enough mastery over the Pristine Tower to give the ability to the SKs. (I also think that Rajaat himself created the "Living Vortexes" using the life-shaping skills he had developed over several millenniums. In theory, if Rajaat broke free of the Hollow and wanted to give Tithian spell-granting abilities he would attach a newly formed Vortex to him. This process may or may not be involved with the Dark Lens. Although Rajaat would have had to place his creations on a plane that bordered all the elemental planes and the material plane and may have needed it to help him do so.)

2. Halflings as preservers.

I am glad racial class restrictions are lifted in 3rd Edition. I always felt them to be silly. I would say a halfling may become a wizard but it would be unlikely due to halfling society being separated from the rebirth races. The only halflings in the cities would have been outcasts from their own people. I also don't believe Rajaat would have wanted them to know magic as it is not apart of the halfling civilization he hoped to renew. Therefore, Rajaat would not have brought his magic into the Green Age halfling communities for them to learn it.
#4
Zardnaar
Sep 16, 2007 1:25:35 True thats a good in game reason why Rajaat didn't teach the halflings magic.

Never liked racial restrictions myself. They should only be used in very specific cases where a certain race can't be XYZ class because some in game reason. Theres and FR race that can't be clerics as they were created during the time of troubles and it makes sense if some race was immune to magic they couldn't be wizards or whatever.
#5
lumpkin
Sep 18, 2007 5:20:06 1. Probably the most official answer is the Dregoth as exception one, since RFoaDK is less official than other sources. But personally I'm entirely with Dasch on this as I find it the most intuitive and satisfactory answer. As I see it, Rajaat implanted the seeds of the draconic nature into his champions in order to make them immortal and capable of handling godlike powers. Dregoth discovered the nature of their transformation and, through his own endeavors, saw it through to its near-cumulation.

2. I suppose in Dark Sun world, the second edition boxed set would probably be the most official. I like to imagine that Athasian magic is based on manipulating the nature of the Rebirth spell which created post Blue Age Athas: Most intelligent races on Athas are descendants of the halflings that cast the Rebirth 'spell', and they have inherited the ability to continue to manipulate the 'spell' and alter the world around them through magic. Since halflings and thri-kreen are not descended from the creators of the Rebirth, they do not have this ability and cannot become wizards.
#6
cnahumck
Sep 18, 2007 7:57:19 1)
he (Borys) taught them the process for taking the next step up the ladder of existence: Borys taught the sorcerer-kings how to become dragon kings.

Using the Dark Lens to focus their combined magic and psionic energy, Borys began the transformations of the sorcerer-kings. The resulting storm of energy as the initial metamorphosing spells were cast connected each of the sorcerer-kings to ail of
the elemental planes, thereby creating magical conduits through which elemental priestly magic could be cast, This magic could not be used by the sorcerer-kings themselves, but it could be imbued upon their loyal servants, the templars, the
humans who helped in the Cleansing Wars.

Now the sorcerer-king were like gods, but Borys did not stop there. “One of us must complete the full transformation to dragon if the spells holding Rajaat are to remain in place,” Borys explained. “One of us must become his warden for the rest of time." Borys, of course, was to be that warden. Using the Dark Lens again, the sorcerer-kings transformed Borys into the Dragon.

This is the most official answer I have seen. And it is what athas.org has decided to go with.

There are previous threads (though I can't seem to find them) where this is debated.
#7
zombiegleemax
Sep 18, 2007 14:46:05 Is'nt Borys two seperate Champions fused together?
#8
cnahumck
Sep 18, 2007 15:32:19
Is'nt Borys two seperate Champions fused together?

nope.
#9
jon_oracle_of_athas
Sep 19, 2007 1:15:11
Probably the most official answer is the Dregoth as exception one, since RFoaDK is less official than other sources.

Rise and Fall of a Dragon King is not less official than other sources. However, a large share of the information is presented from a character perspective rather than narrator perspective, which means you have to consider that the source could be biased. That, however, does not make the source "less" official.
#10
Zardnaar
Sep 19, 2007 2:21:35 Most of the inconsitencies in RaFoaDK are due to Lynn Abey having incorrect information provided. The core of the story is fine but ome of the details are wrong like the positions of the cities in relation to each other.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Zardnaar Sep 15, 2007 21:47:57	Alot of Star Wars material has been retconned to make it fit into the established universe. Lets be honest theres more than a few contradictions in various DS books. Heres a few retcons I've thought of. 1. When did Rajaats Champions become Dragons? The 2 schools of thought seem to believe they became Dragons at the start of the Cleansing Wars or at the end of the Cleansing when they became Sorceror-Kings. The primary material says very little on it but Rise and Fall of a Dragon Kings says that they were Dragons during the Cleansing Wars and Rajaat turns Hamanu into one towards the end. Additionally City By the Silt Sea seems to indcate Dregoth was a Dragon when he took control of Giustanel. If they became Dragons at he end of the Cleansing Wars Dregoth went form a level 21 Dragoin to 29 in 80 odd years and managed to rule his city during his Dragon rage. The compromise viewpint would be Dregoth was an exception and became a Dragon sometime during the Cleansing Wars while the other Champions became Dragons at the end of the Cleansing Wars when they became Sorceror Kings. Since the timeline doesn't specifiically state when they became Dragons and based on existing material from 2nd ed I would just go with the fact they were Dragons at the start of the Cleansing Wars and Rajaat turned them into level 21 Dragons (or 1st stage Dragons) so as to make them immortal as the Cleansing Wars wouyld take centuries to complete. 2. Halflings as preservers. The original boxed set let Halflings be presevers while the revised boxed set didn't allow them to be preservers. 3.0 made the arguement irrelevent as now their are no racial restrictions on class. I would retcon this by saying most wizards are human/elf/half-elf while a rare few halflings are preservers. Wizards of other races wile theoretically possable are extremely rare while a Halfling Defiler is unheard of. Perhaps the rebirth is still contining and recent mutations/evolution has allowed modern races to learn wizard powers where the races in Rajaats time where either unable to practice it or perhaps Rajaat found humans alot easier to teach or were more corruptable than most Halflings who couldn't/wouldn't defile. Any others?
#2 squidfur- Sep 15, 2007 23:25:21	Check out the Contradiction threads in the Archive.
#3 dasch_dup Sep 16, 2007 0:57:18	1. When did Rajaats Champions become Dragons? I go with the RaFoaDK idea myself. It makes perfect sense that Rajaat began their metamorphosis for them in the Steeple of Crystals. My main reason for going this route is because I feel that Rajaat wanted them to be able to grant their followers, the early templars, spells to help the Champions during the Cleansing Wars. I don't like the idea that the vortexes found the SKs by accident or that Borys somehow gained enough mastery over the Pristine Tower to give the ability to the SKs. (I also think that Rajaat himself created the "Living Vortexes" using the life-shaping skills he had developed over several millenniums. In theory, if Rajaat broke free of the Hollow and wanted to give Tithian spell-granting abilities he would attach a newly formed Vortex to him. This process may or may not be involved with the Dark Lens. Although Rajaat would have had to place his creations on a plane that bordered all the elemental planes and the material plane and may have needed it to help him do so.) 2. Halflings as preservers. I am glad racial class restrictions are lifted in 3rd Edition. I always felt them to be silly. I would say a halfling may become a wizard but it would be unlikely due to halfling society being separated from the rebirth races. The only halflings in the cities would have been outcasts from their own people. I also don't believe Rajaat would have wanted them to know magic as it is not apart of the halfling civilization he hoped to renew. Therefore, Rajaat would not have brought his magic into the Green Age halfling communities for them to learn it.
#4 Zardnaar Sep 16, 2007 1:25:35	True thats a good in game reason why Rajaat didn't teach the halflings magic. Never liked racial restrictions myself. They should only be used in very specific cases where a certain race can't be XYZ class because some in game reason. Theres and FR race that can't be clerics as they were created during the time of troubles and it makes sense if some race was immune to magic they couldn't be wizards or whatever.
#5 lumpkin Sep 18, 2007 5:20:06	1. Probably the most official answer is the Dregoth as exception one, since RFoaDK is less official than other sources. But personally I'm entirely with Dasch on this as I find it the most intuitive and satisfactory answer. As I see it, Rajaat implanted the seeds of the draconic nature into his champions in order to make them immortal and capable of handling godlike powers. Dregoth discovered the nature of their transformation and, through his own endeavors, saw it through to its near-cumulation. 2. I suppose in Dark Sun world, the second edition boxed set would probably be the most official. I like to imagine that Athasian magic is based on manipulating the nature of the Rebirth spell which created post Blue Age Athas: Most intelligent races on Athas are descendants of the halflings that cast the Rebirth 'spell', and they have inherited the ability to continue to manipulate the 'spell' and alter the world around them through magic. Since halflings and thri-kreen are not descended from the creators of the Rebirth, they do not have this ability and cannot become wizards.
#6 cnahumck Sep 18, 2007 7:57:19	1) he (Borys) taught them the process for taking the next step up the ladder of existence: Borys taught the sorcerer-kings how to become dragon kings. Using the Dark Lens to focus their combined magic and psionic energy, Borys began the transformations of the sorcerer-kings. The resulting storm of energy as the initial metamorphosing spells were cast connected each of the sorcerer-kings to ail of the elemental planes, thereby creating magical conduits through which elemental priestly magic could be cast, This magic could not be used by the sorcerer-kings themselves, but it could be imbued upon their loyal servants, the templars, the humans who helped in the Cleansing Wars. Now the sorcerer-king were like gods, but Borys did not stop there. “One of us must complete the full transformation to dragon if the spells holding Rajaat are to remain in place,” Borys explained. “One of us must become his warden for the rest of time." Borys, of course, was to be that warden. Using the Dark Lens again, the sorcerer-kings transformed Borys into the Dragon. This is the most official answer I have seen. And it is what athas.org has decided to go with. There are previous threads (though I can't seem to find them) where this is debated.
#7 zombiegleemax Sep 18, 2007 14:46:05	Is'nt Borys two seperate Champions fused together?
#8 cnahumck Sep 18, 2007 15:32:19	Is'nt Borys two seperate Champions fused together? nope.
#9 jon_oracle_of_athas Sep 19, 2007 1:15:11	Probably the most official answer is the Dregoth as exception one, since RFoaDK is less official than other sources. Rise and Fall of a Dragon King is not less official than other sources. However, a large share of the information is presented from a character perspective rather than narrator perspective, which means you have to consider that the source could be biased. That, however, does not make the source "less" official.
#10 Zardnaar Sep 19, 2007 2:21:35	Most of the inconsitencies in RaFoaDK are due to Lynn Abey having incorrect information provided. The core of the story is fine but ome of the details are wrong like the positions of the cities in relation to each other.