I know that Mystara wasn't originally such a High Magic campaign setting as it later became (the original B-X Known World seemed, in fact, much more similar to the "Points of Light" model that 4E is espousing as the default campaign world), but as the Gazetteer line unfolded, it grew more into that area of High Magic, hence one possible reason why Mystara didn't do well as a 2E campaign setting- it didn't really offer too much different from what was already out there.
Now, with these possible changes to FR, perhaps Mystara will have a niche of its own that isn't quite fulfilled by other settings (Greyhawk being the closest competitor IMO).
Been reading over some of the proposed and speculated changes coming to FR in 4E, and it sounds like they are going to be making major overhauls to the High Magic nature of that setting- diminishing the number of wizards (through a deadly Spell Plague), notably.
I know that Mystara wasn't originally such a High Magic campaign setting as it later became (the original B-X Known World seemed, in fact, much more similar to the "Points of Light" model that 4E is espousing as the default campaign world), but as the Gazetteer line unfolded, it grew more into that area of High Magic, hence one possible reason why Mystara didn't do well as a 2E campaign setting- it didn't really offer too much different from what was already out there.
Now, with these possible changes to FR, perhaps Mystara will have a niche of its own that isn't quite fulfilled by other settings (Greyhawk being the closest competitor IMO).
well WotI tried to help with that by sending all the Alphatians elsewhere ... for some or perhaps many campaigns out of the picture. The Gazetteers probably went a bit too far with the High Magic thing, but I think that the Known World without Alphatia on the doorstep is a good medium for the world, and hence also a good niche to push.
I think what made Mystara excellent is how it held out spaces for high magic and low magic simultaneously. And, IMO, pulled it off very well.
I agree. The topic of how Mystara's magic should be presented is something I keep coming back to.
Right now I'm thinking the setting could be presented as low magic as it is seen on an every-day basis, but with high and powerful magic working behind the scenes unseen. Powerful mages of Alphatia and Glantri are recluse and don't go out showing off their powerful secrets. Alphatia's flying ships aren't used as often as one should think, mainly because of Alphatia's lack of interest in the rest of the world (Norwold and Prince Haldemar being the two major exceptions).
Havard
I know that Mystara wasn't originally such a High Magic campaign setting as it later became (the original B-X Known World seemed, in fact, much more similar to the "Points of Light" model that 4E is espousing as the default campaign world), but as the Gazetteer line unfolded, it grew more into that area of High Magic, hence one possible reason why Mystara didn't do well as a 2E campaign setting- it didn't really offer too much different from what was already out there.
Nah, 2e Mystara flunked because most of the material was terrible and targeted the wrong audience, while lacking completely any sort of comprehensive overall introduction to the general setting. I actually consider the "Explorer's Guide" and "The Grimoire" from K:KoA and G:KoM to be decent product, and even they have terrible oversights, particularly the latter, where the changes to the NoS at the end of WotI are completely forgotten.
Mystara may seem low-magic early on, because Karameikos is always the introduction. And it's a great place to begin adventuring, if you're beginning a campaign, and know nothing about it. B10 is one of the best adventures I know for any RPG. But 2e tried to make Mystara a "beginner's campaign", which missed the point completely considering that the world and its politics were already far, far more advanced than those of Greyhawk or the Realms, which are both fairly black and white in their outlook - particularly the Realms - and which are both established according to fixed general guidelines from the beginning, whereas Mystara is complex both morally and politically and when it comes to the rules. Each and every gazetteer revised or expanded the rules - even the general rules - which is the one thing that always annoyed me about them. I don't mind extra spell knowledge in Glantri, unusual shamanistic rules for the shadowelves, or even a different character class for the halflings, but I do mind the doctoring general skill working one way in one gazetteer and another way in the next or skills or abilities that would seem very common be introduced only very late in specific gazetteers, such as the merchant subclass and all the rules that came with in the Darokin gazetteer.
Besides, by the time Mystara went to 2e, the world had vastly more magic than other 2e campaigns. The obvious comparison would be between the Alphatians' skyships and the skyships of Halruaa in the Realms. In the Realms, it's incredible that the Halruans have such ships, but compared to the Alphatian skyships, the Halruan ships are really very, very primitive. I mean, just take a look at the Alphatian Man-O-War in the CoM set, for crying out loud! It's a huge galleon with scores of catapults/ballistae that can turn invisible and even teleport! Heck, even that floating barge in Sind seems comparatively more complex next to the halruan skyships. And I haven't even mentioned the Princess Ark...
But even if we're talking magic items, there are some ludicrously powerful items on Mystara. The Elvenstar, anyone? I mean, an item that can amplify spell effects for damage, range, area by 10 to 50 times as well as Protection from Evil, 5000-foot radius is no mere trinket... And note that X11: Saga of the Shadowlord is from 1986, whereas the first gaz about Karameikos wasn't written until 1987. And that's just in somewhat "unremarkable" Wendar? If they have such an item, imagine what we might find in the really magic-heavy nations like Alphatia, Glantri, or Thyatis? Even the Eye of Traldar in Karameikos sounds incredibly potent, though it has never been described officially in specific game terms, at least that I've noted.
Considering such magic, cutting down a bit can be a good thing, even on a much lower scale. In D&D magic is always a problem because most magical items are permanent with few or no sideeffects. Magic is therefore easy and convenient and quickly becomes a universal tool for the players to use in any situation. In and off itself that's okay to a point, but not when it becomes a substitute for actually thinking about the situation the characters are in, which is something I've experienced more than once. A big part of the adventure in "The Lord of the Rings" is travel - how do you get from one place to the next? Some of the areas are very dangerous and difficult to get past. In D&D you can just teleport our way of the problem, if you have the right spells, and so magic becomes the universal convenience. The problem in 3.Xe is probably that it actually underscores this by making spells like Teleportation Circle and similar available.
Take an example: In WotI, one sidemission is about bringing Teldon secretly from Karameikos to Alphatia for diplomat discussions and safely back again. This is a delicate mission, since Thyatis is right between Karameikos and Alphatia, and so there is a danger. Put in a few teleportation spells, however, and the entire plot becomes completely moot - you can just cast a few spells and it's all solved. You don't want that to happen as a GM. I "solved" it IMC by having Alphatia "protected" from teleportation spells to prevent Thyatian spies and Glantrian saboteurs, but it's not a very satisfying explanation. And frankly, there shouldn't be potential campaign-spoiling game mechanics like that in the rules in the first place.
Or another example - how many have dealt with the problem of werewolves being hurt only by silver in D&D? Few, I'd wager, since we all know that magic is universally useful and can kill werewolves just as well. Better, in fact, since there is a bonus to both attack and damage. But what if that didn't work? What if killing a werewolf REQUIRED silver and only silver! Now werewolves will be dangerous. And shouldn't they be? They sure aren't IMC, and practically never have been, because the players all know that their magic weapons can hurt them, and even if they're infected, a simple Remove Curse (available to both priests and wizards) can solve the problem. So much for that classic horror story...
Right now I'm thinking the setting could be presented as low magic as it is seen on an every-day basis, but with high and powerful magic working behind the scenes unseen.
For whatever reason, I have always seen Mystara somewhat of a low magic setting myself. I agree that in areas magic is high
Come on Alphatia being ruled by a 1000 level 36 wizards...
But the HIGH magic has its place - in the background - at high levels.
tendon (?) was 36 th lefel AFAIK, so he should be able to do the things you mention (teleport)...
But my PCs (own and those of my players) were rarely above level 10.
We liked to start anew because at NAME level the game became too easy...
And just swapping out low level monsters for high levels were not our style.
Games were more character vs NPC driven, and the "official" supplements were used only if the GM had no time to prepare (so they lasted for long).
The only time we played Companion adventures was when we did a Campaign set in Norwold, but ás mentiond - high level was not our style.
The Gazetter series was an act of genius
Not only we got fully fleshed out "kingdoms", but each one had its distinct style - i still miss them
Add in the PC1-4 series (anybody knows where my screenname comes from ;)) and you had a most colorful setting.
I especially liked the Glantri/Night Howlers (PC4), Shadow Elves and Darokin gazetters.
The only things I really missed was a PC5 (Vampires) and gazeteers for Heldann and Wendar...
I never liked Alphatia and had already planned to let it sink beneath the waves when TSR was faster than my campaign ;) WOI was top notch and the PWA went into the right direction, but unfortunately they were cancelled too soon
I always played mystara "LOW MAGIC" style.
...
But the HIGH magic has its place - in the background - at high levels.
Same here. In general I use a low magic style for Mystara but there are exceptions to be found such as Glantri City and high magic that is at work but not really known to the public.
Come on Alphatia being ruled by a 1000 level 36 wizards...
Here is my take on the Alphatian Council. It can be found in this thread along with some ideas from other people.
The Gazetter series was an act of genius
Not only we got fully fleshed out "kingdoms", but each one had its distinct style - i still miss them
It was the gazes that really get me 'thinking' about the world in which the PCs adventure in. For me they were revolutionary. But I don't miss them at all... I still use them a lot to this day. ;) The PC series was fantastic as well.
The only things I really missed was a PC5 (Vampires) and gazeteers for Heldann and Wendar...
I've some great news for you then. Here is the Heldannic gaz and the Wendar gaz. These are fan gazeteers of fantastic quality. Highly recommended.
I never liked Alphatia and had already planned to let it sink beneath the waves when TSR was faster than my campaign ;) WOI was top notch and the PWA went into the right direction, but unfortunately they were cancelled too soon
Again, these were continued by the Mystara web community and can be found here. Enjoy.
If you haven't been there yet, make sure to visit www.pandius.com as well. It is a gold mine for us Mystara fans.It was the gazes that really get me 'thinking' about the world in which the PCs adventure in. For me they were revolutionary.
They were the original sourcebook absolutely