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Dragon vs. Balic (and Urik)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
lumpkin
Sep 18, 2007 5:45:36 So according to the official timeline, all the kings and queens of Athas are very scared of the Dragon. Hamanu delivers the bounty of Yaramuke to Borys, despite having fought what was presumably a costly war to get it, to appease his dragonly wrath while much later Borys is annoyed with Androponis and tramples over Balic as punishment. No mention of the Ur Draxan army coming over in armada, the Dragon himself is enough to make the sorcerer kings not even bother trying to defend themselves.

The implication is that the Dragon is much more powerful than an entire city-state and its ruler put together. But having read Dragon Kings it just doesn't seem like a 30th level dragon is really that much more powerful than a 21st/22nd level dragon PLUS their entire city of templars, army, magically-defended castles and walls plus numerous hangers-on.

So do they allow Borys to behave like this purely because they are reliant on him to maintain Rajaat's mystical prison?
#2
cnahumck
Sep 18, 2007 8:00:38 Yes. And he is more powerful than one SK. Just not all of them put together.
#3
brun01
Sep 18, 2007 8:46:10 I think they mention cnahumck's argument on PP...
#4
Sysane
Sep 18, 2007 10:48:24 The Dragon is a necessary evil in the eyes of the other Champions. Without Borys the SKs would have a to contend with the much bigger threat of Rajaat.
#5
cnahumck
Sep 18, 2007 13:30:31 It is mentioned at the end of the Amber Enchantress. Sadira is talking with freakboy about things, as he is trying to stall for time, and he let's it slip that the Dragon is the protector of Athas. don't know page numbers or exact quotes. That info is not on pdf for me.
#6
zombiegleemax
Sep 18, 2007 14:00:53 I agree, Borys was the guardian of Rajaats prison, the SK's combined might have the power to keep rajaat in check but it would leave them in a weakened state, and fearing the other sk's treachery none would be willing to risk it.

I think Borys could easily kill an entire city state even if two or three other SK's were trying to stop him. Borys is very very powerful. His ability to Clone and then DeathField is insanely powerful. not to mention his spellcasting power. and his ability to manipulate others, even the SK's would probably win him some very powerful allies.

The Cerulean storm (ya ya bad spelling) is a great novel and should be a must read for DS fans if you can get it. its one of the few novels i have managed to get.
#7
Zardnaar
Sep 18, 2007 18:57:13 In modern D&D rules lets just assume for arguements sake that an ole 2nd ed Dragon of 21st level was CR 22 and The Dragon was CR31.

By the rules a CR 24 critter is twice as strong as a CR 22 critter and a CR 26 one is twice as strong as CR 24 etc.

CR 22
CR 24 (Cr22x2)
CR 26 (CR22x4)
CR 28 (CR 22X8)
CR 30 (CR 22X16)
CR31 (Borys= CR 22X24)

By the D&D rules in theory a CR 31 beastie is the same stength as 24 CR 22 beasties so Borys could take on multiple lower CR creatures by himself.

Athas.org uses different rules than I do. My Dragons are CR 22 for an old 2nd ed level 21 Dragon and CR 35-36ish for a fully tranformed Dragon like Borys (+ any Templates you want to use). In most cases any criter 10+ challenge rating higher than a competitor can more or less defeat an infinate amount of lower CR critters when the difference in power is that extreme. In my campaign even the weakest Sorceror King is probably around CR 24 and most cities population would be level 10 or lower with a few higher level individuals so numbers won't really matter that much should a CR 30+ Dragon come stomping through town as only the Sorceror King has any chance at all vs The Dragon and even then it is very iffy for the Sorceror King (its not a fair fight as the King is in his lair and has the higher level Templars to help- its remotly possable that single king could defeat the Dragon in those circumstances).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lumpkin Sep 18, 2007 5:45:36	So according to the official timeline, all the kings and queens of Athas are very scared of the Dragon. Hamanu delivers the bounty of Yaramuke to Borys, despite having fought what was presumably a costly war to get it, to appease his dragonly wrath while much later Borys is annoyed with Androponis and tramples over Balic as punishment. No mention of the Ur Draxan army coming over in armada, the Dragon himself is enough to make the sorcerer kings not even bother trying to defend themselves. The implication is that the Dragon is much more powerful than an entire city-state and its ruler put together. But having read Dragon Kings it just doesn't seem like a 30th level dragon is really that much more powerful than a 21st/22nd level dragon PLUS their entire city of templars, army, magically-defended castles and walls plus numerous hangers-on. So do they allow Borys to behave like this purely because they are reliant on him to maintain Rajaat's mystical prison?
#2 cnahumck Sep 18, 2007 8:00:38	Yes. And he is more powerful than one SK. Just not all of them put together.
#3 brun01 Sep 18, 2007 8:46:10	I think they mention cnahumck's argument on PP...
#4 Sysane Sep 18, 2007 10:48:24	The Dragon is a necessary evil in the eyes of the other Champions. Without Borys the SKs would have a to contend with the much bigger threat of Rajaat.
#5 cnahumck Sep 18, 2007 13:30:31	It is mentioned at the end of the Amber Enchantress. Sadira is talking with freakboy about things, as he is trying to stall for time, and he let's it slip that the Dragon is the protector of Athas. don't know page numbers or exact quotes. That info is not on pdf for me.
#6 zombiegleemax Sep 18, 2007 14:00:53	I agree, Borys was the guardian of Rajaats prison, the SK's combined might have the power to keep rajaat in check but it would leave them in a weakened state, and fearing the other sk's treachery none would be willing to risk it. I think Borys could easily kill an entire city state even if two or three other SK's were trying to stop him. Borys is very very powerful. His ability to Clone and then DeathField is insanely powerful. not to mention his spellcasting power. and his ability to manipulate others, even the SK's would probably win him some very powerful allies. The Cerulean storm (ya ya bad spelling) is a great novel and should be a must read for DS fans if you can get it. its one of the few novels i have managed to get.
#7 Zardnaar Sep 18, 2007 18:57:13	In modern D&D rules lets just assume for arguements sake that an ole 2nd ed Dragon of 21st level was CR 22 and The Dragon was CR31. By the rules a CR 24 critter is twice as strong as a CR 22 critter and a CR 26 one is twice as strong as CR 24 etc. CR 22 CR 24 (Cr22x2) CR 26 (CR22x4) CR 28 (CR 22X8) CR 30 (CR 22X16) CR31 (Borys= CR 22X24) By the D&D rules in theory a CR 31 beastie is the same stength as 24 CR 22 beasties so Borys could take on multiple lower CR creatures by himself. Athas.org uses different rules than I do. My Dragons are CR 22 for an old 2nd ed level 21 Dragon and CR 35-36ish for a fully tranformed Dragon like Borys (+ any Templates you want to use). In most cases any criter 10+ challenge rating higher than a competitor can more or less defeat an infinate amount of lower CR critters when the difference in power is that extreme. In my campaign even the weakest Sorceror King is probably around CR 24 and most cities population would be level 10 or lower with a few higher level individuals so numbers won't really matter that much should a CR 30+ Dragon come stomping through town as only the Sorceror King has any chance at all vs The Dragon and even then it is very iffy for the Sorceror King (its not a fair fight as the King is in his lair and has the higher level Templars to help- its remotly possable that single king could defeat the Dragon in those circumstances).