Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 20, 2007 1:31:08	Hello. as some of you may know i am new to these forums. i have played DS for around 18 yrs or so. most of it has been fanfiction filled because of lack of offical gaming material which i can not purchase right now from the pdf net store. so i though i would ask questions to fill in the gaps on my canon. i would like to keep all my questions to this single post to save space. i have alot of questions and plenty more i will come up with later. i have done this on the mystara forum to some success so here i go. i will try and stick to single questions at a time so i can get maximum detail on them if possible. 1. I would like to know the details of the "Mud Palace" i have never had any info about this place beyond the 2e wanders journel and i would love to know whats up with the place. who built it and why? who lived there? what were they like? what happened to them? was there a leadership? if so who was the leader? R/C/L? Race/Class/Levels? are there any unique creatures or spirits roaming the lands near the palace? is there anything special i should know about the Mud Palace? what has happened to the mud palace in the novel line? anything else i should note about the place? *i think i am going to start up DS again for my wife and brother and run it from the days before kalak dies all the way through to the death of dregoth (if they make it that is!) so any help on official canon would be much appreciated! most of my old info is fandom - the mudpalace was the lair of an elemental cult worshipping a evolved cleric of earth. (like i said HELP! lol.) thanks for any and all replies.
#2 Zardnaar Sep 20, 2007 2:23:59	I've got most of the old source material on PDF but IIRC there is virtually nothing on the Mud Palace beyond what you've already described. I don't have alot of the adventures though so maybe there was somehting in there.
#3 squidfur- Sep 20, 2007 16:00:06	Nothing in the adventures. KotWR - what you have is all there is (officially). Sorry.
#4 zombiegleemax Sep 20, 2007 16:30:37	Nothing in the adventures. KotWR - what you have is all there is (officially). Sorry. no problem, so the mudpalace is just a tool for the Dm to include whatever. its a creative spot. thats cool, i guess i will keep it as i had it, the home to an elemental cult and their elemental ruler. K next question. What can you tell me about the Bleak Tower. again i have the info from the wanders journel but i would like to know the details if possible. thanks a bunch!
#5 squidfur- Sep 20, 2007 18:33:58	Same case as before.
#6 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Sep 20, 2007 21:52:03	no problem, so the mudpalace is just a tool for the Dm to include whatever. its a creative spot. thats cool, i guess i will keep it as i had it, the home to an elemental cult and their elemental ruler. K next question. What can you tell me about the Bleak Tower. again i have the info from the wanders journel but i would like to know the details if possible. thanks a bunch! Most likely, those places may have become more filled out/developed, if the setting had a chance, but unfortunately TSR was in its death throes when Dark Sun was in its infancy.
#7 zombiegleemax Sep 21, 2007 1:02:33	ok so far two areas i can do whatever i like with. thanks very much! i will go ahead a ask about more than 1 just incase. what can you all tell me about the following. (outside the wanderers journel information) Arkhold Bodach Kalidnay Yaramuke Dragons Bowl thanks for any and all replies. if all these areas lack offical information beyond the wanderers journel its ok by me as i like fandom!:D but any canon info is very helpful, thanks again!
#8 cnahumck Sep 21, 2007 8:52:33	Kalidnay Yaramuke are both detailed (sort of) in DS adventures. Can't recall which ones at the moment.
#9 brun01 Sep 21, 2007 9:52:00	Kalidnay is on Merchant House of Amketch Yaramuke is on Black Flames
#10 Sysane Sep 21, 2007 12:12:29	Kalidnay is also somewhat flushed out in Ravenloft, but the info isn't necessarily canon.
#11 zombiegleemax Sep 21, 2007 13:11:26	Kalidnay moved to ravenloft?! what can you tell me about the ravenloft version? did it become its own domain? did it have a darklord? what was the darklord like? so kal and yam are detailed in offical adventures. i have blackflame, i just need to find it. the adventure with the gith. so is bodach and dragons bowl both undetailed? more places like the bleak tower where a dm can do whatever. thanks abunch for all the help.
#12 brun01 Sep 21, 2007 13:21:15	The one with the gith is Black Spine... ;)
#13 Sysane Sep 21, 2007 14:18:06	Kalidnay moved to ravenloft?! what can you tell me about the ravenloft version? did it become its own domain? did it have a darklord? what was the darklord like? Thakok-An a female half-elf who was the head templar of Kaild-Ma is the darklord of a domain which is replica of the city of Kalidnay with a few out lying villages. Its more-or-less an island surrounded by a sea of silt.
#14 cnahumck Sep 21, 2007 14:54:55	accept in the actual ravenloft version, Kalid-ma was a female, and the templar was a man. love those consistent guys at TSR
#15 Sysane Sep 21, 2007 15:03:54	Which was later corrected in RL's first 2e hardcover.
#16 cnahumck Sep 21, 2007 15:25:46	I love having to pay for errata. reminds me of the Complete Psionics book
#17 zombiegleemax Sep 21, 2007 17:47:48	The one with the gith is Black Spine... ;) Yup! thats it. its been like 4 years or more since i last glimpsed it, i hope it didnt get thrown away! Ok so here's a question, are their any underground settlements i may never have heard of? any underdark areas?
#18 huntercc Sep 22, 2007 13:22:11	Here's some speculation on the matter: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=866010 http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=847863
#19 zombiegleemax Sep 22, 2007 18:49:54	ok so nothing offical, i don't have the spellfire stuff so i can't draw from it. just more room to create stuff. No much offical info on alot of places is there? i guess the sourcebooks consentrate more on the city states and the areas commonly traveled. thanks for the info, still nothing on bodach or arkhold or dragons bowl huh?
#20 cnahumck Sep 22, 2007 19:15:18	there was stuff on Bodach that was a net project somewhere... No clue where that is now though.
#21 zombiegleemax Sep 23, 2007 2:47:16	Refresher question. can elemental cults get along with each other? clerics of earth working with water clerics? wind clerics working with fire clerics? or is this just a no go? i forget. would druids be welcome within an elemental cult if the druid was protecting that element? please remind me how cleric's that worship a specific elemental (say a transformed mortal cleric) gain clerical powers. they just draw from the elemental plane right? or can they gain spells from a specific elemental. do elemental groups actively seek the downfall of the dragonkings? do they operate agains them? thanks, just some things i am hazy on after all this time.
#22 terminus_vortexa Sep 23, 2007 3:15:53	Elemental clerics can get along just fine with other elemental clerics, if they choose. Their doctrine does not make them fight each other. Maybe a little bit of rivalry is present, but if two clerics fight because their elements are considered "opposed" to each other(Earth vs Air, Fire vs. Water) they made the decision on their own, they aren't obligated to fight each other. Elemental clerics and Paraelemental Clerics are in opposition to each other, and so will almost always fight. Rain Paraelemental clerics, however, are considered to be the only paraelement that isn't in opposition to the "pure" elements. Some cultures still don't like them, but IIRC, clerics of Water and Air and Earth have no conflicting dogma with Rain, and Fire probably doesn't care much for them, but I doubt there would be automatic conflict if they encountered each other. I believe druids get along just fine with elemental cults, but hate paraelemental cults(except Rain) almost as much as they hate Defilers, since Defiling propagates the Paraelements in the long term, and Paraelemental (except Rain)clerics and defilers usually get along great.. (Which is kind of short-sighted on the part of the Defilers. if the Paraelemental clerics achieve ther goal of making their chosen Elements domnate Athas, there would be no fertile land for plants to grow in , and thus no power source for Defiling.) I think that the Elemental plane itself grants the clerics their power, and the cleric does not recieve his spells from any specific elemental, regardless of their worship of a specific Elemental. I could be wrong about that, but I'm pretty sure that's the "official" stance. However, IMC, AB Elementals CAN grant spells to their followers, in much the same way as an SK, except the Living Vortex is replaced by a natural link to their patron plane only. This method is generally only used by AB elementals who are leaders of a Theocratic government, and want to be able to cut their minions off from power if need be. These templar-ish clerics do not actually forge a pact with the element, in most cases. But those who are considered promisisn, loyal, and worthy are instructed on how to make the Pact with their patron element, so they can proceed on the path to becoming an AB themselves. That's just in my game, though. I think it's very likely that some, but not all, elemental groups seek the downfall of the Dragon Kings. Those who know the truth about the past and how Athas came to be such a miserable barren world are more likely to want to destroy the genocidal warmongers that turned their lush , fertile planet into a horrible microwave.
#23 zombiegleemax Sep 23, 2007 14:57:38	awesome! thanks for the very detailed reply! i had completely forgotten about paraelementalists. i don't think i have anything on them in my books, not sure. so i guess my next questions will be about them. again refresher questions, thanks! what IS a paraelementalist. what Are the differant paraelemental planes/ rain, ash, snow? can i get a full list? what is the goal of the paraelementalist and what lasting effect would their goal have on athas if they succeed? which, if any, paraelemenatal groups get along with each other, or are they all enemies of each other? thanks again for all the help!
#24 Cainin Sep 23, 2007 15:39:55	Paraelementalist A cleric that worships a paraelemental force instead of a traditional elements force. Paraelemental Forces Rain (Water & Air) Magma (Earth & Fire) Silt (Earth & Water) Sun (Fire & Air) Objectives 1) Rain clerics wish to see Athas revitalized with lush plant life so that there will be more rain. In other words, their goals are generally aligned with the traditional elemental clerics. 2) The other three paraelemental clerics are sort of like anti-clerics. To clarify, each of their patron elements benefit from the world of Athas falling to pieces. As such, they basically are on eternal campaigns to destroy the planet. While Good aligned clerics of these elements can try to put a positive spin on things, their faiths tend be Evil aligned in general.
#25 zombiegleemax Sep 23, 2007 17:25:38	Thanks! great helpful info!
#26 terminus_vortexa Sep 24, 2007 14:27:42	A good example of a Paraelemental cleric is Caelum from the Prism Pentad books. His actions place his alignment in the Neutral Good to Lawful Good category, IMO, but his element is Sun, and his magic is painful to use, and even causes pain to those it heals. I think being a Sun Cleric is walking a fine line between serving your element and serving your people, in the case of Caelum. Dwarves of Athas are basically either immune to sunburn or are harmed by it FAR less than humans (Their huts have no roofs, even! ) so to them, the Sun isn't colored by the fear of horrific sunburn and sun poisoning and death. To them, it's a source of discomfort, sure, but also of life for plants to eat, a way to keep wounds from getting infected, an everpresent ambient force that weakens their enemies just by BEING there in the sky, etc. For a Dwarf, the sun is to be respected and carefully used. To a human, the sun means horrible, painful burns unless covered up and thus stifling, dehydration and discomfort. Nothing but pain and death. Sure it makes plants grow, but it causes so much harm that that doesn't even enter the mental equation. For a hum,an to serve the sun, they must have a love of death and pain. Perspective colors one's alignment concerning the elements. Anyway, it's POSSIBLE to have good-aligned paraelemental clerics, but they're wither nonhuman or insane, IMO. Except, of course, Rain clerics.
#27 cnahumck Sep 24, 2007 14:44:06	I remember somewhere reading about or thinking about a silt cleric that would protect his village from his element. They live by the silt sea and his service saves the village from Grey Death or something. Sounds about right to me.