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#1jaidSep 24, 2007 16:53:12 | just been discussing stuff over in the 4th edition forums, and it came up that someone didn't like the crystal spheres, figured they made planewalking easier than spelljamming. i pointed out that the spheres (and the phlogiston) actually make spelljamming more necessary, because the phlogiston is the one place you absolutely *can't* get to by planewalking. so, it occurs to me, that it would make all kinds of sense to have a few locations in the flow. wondering what other people thing about it, and possibly interested in coming up with some locations (which we could then send over to static on BtM). more on this later, but atm there's food to be had! |
#2tausterSep 25, 2007 3:25:26 | I think almost every spelljammin' DM is tempted to tinker with the rules for helms... myself included! :D Here's a concept you might find interesting. For me it's the most sophisticated alternative to the official rules set... and it makes more sense than tha canon helms (at least to me). An Alternate Approach to Helms And while you're there: there's a huge lot of stuff about Ships of Wildspace, including new ship hulls, equipment, floor plans, etc. There's even an Ecology of the Helm: an essay trying to give an explanation of how helms function. ...but I guess you know spelljammer.org well enough to already have read that stuff. |
#3nightdruidSep 25, 2007 18:53:49 | On Flow location: The biggest draw for locations in the flow is also its greatest drawback: its totally cut off from the planes. That means a lot of magic & items won't work in the flow, or are very dangerous (such as fire). There is no sun, so no plants, so living creatures will have difficulties actually surviving there. Non-living creatures, such as liches, golems, and warforged, would have an easier time staying there on a more permanent basis. There are also some creatures that seem made of the stuff (flowfiends, wizshades, & the manta-ray like creatures) who survive there long term. A wizshade tower would make for an interesting locale, perhaps something that has constantly shifting walls & such. Undead lairs, particularly those without connections to the negative or positive planes, would be interesting as well. |
#4jaidSep 25, 2007 19:57:58 | standard plants require sunlight to survive, it is true, and thus would make it difficult* to refresh air supplies in the flow theoretically, but for the fact that other plants (such as glowmoss) don't require air. food supplies could be produced using subterranean ecologies (mushrooms as a major crop, for example). sure, there wouldn't be an awful lot of fire, but not all food needs to be cooked (and some races don't mind eating their food raw) and there's plenty of light (courtesy of the flow). also iirc, there are spells that make fire less dangerous in the flow. not to mention the possibilities for defense (flow-cannons, which don't require any smokepowder to work, just a spark, for example ;) ) i dunno, maybe it's just me but i think there's some definite possibilities here... i may try to work up some kind of community in the flow at some point, just to see what can be done with it =D *technically, it's actually quite easy to refresh air in the flow, because some weirdo decided that conjuring a cloud of fog is actually an evocation spell (in 2e), not conjuration/summoning. assuming you ignore this bit of silliness, that would pretty much restrict you to transmuting yourself an air supply. which doesn't have nearly as many potential spells available to use) |
#5carmine_the_wolfSep 26, 2007 5:07:05 | standard plants require sunlight to survive, it is true, and thus would make it difficult* to refresh air supplies in the flow theoretically, but for the fact that other plants (such as glowmoss) don't require air. food supplies could be produced using subterranean ecologies (mushrooms as a major crop, for example). Remember the fact that scientists keep happening upon whole mini-ecosystems of creatures right here on Earth that live in environments devoid of light and filled with chemicals and conditions that were previously thought to be deadly to all forms of life (examples include caves that have never seen the light of day and underwater volcanic vents). In a fantasy setting there should be even fewer restrictions and thus you'd fully expect to find all sorts of strange but resilient life thriving in the flow. |
#6wyvern76Oct 02, 2007 12:00:25 | standard plants require sunlight to survive, it is true, and thus would make it difficult* to refresh air supplies in the flow theoretically, but for the fact that other plants (such as glowmoss) don't require air. food supplies could be produced using subterranean ecologies (mushrooms as a major crop, for example). Actually, that's wrong on two counts. First of all, plants don't require sunlight -- any sort of light will suffice, and there's plenty of that in the Flow. (Of course, they'd need soil and water too.) Second, mushrooms can't replace plants as the foundation of a food chain -- they're decomposers, which means they need organic matter to feed on, just like animals do. Wyvern, biology teacher |
#7jaidOct 02, 2007 12:37:16 | i didn't say that mushrooms would be the foundation of the food chain (though i wouldn't have known better either way, so your input is appreciated), i said they could be a major food crop... as in there could be mushroom farmers. apparently this would presuppose some other kinds of plant/animal life, but that's not too hard... i assume rats, insects, bats, etc would be able to adapt to the flow (well... bats might not appreciate the constant light, i suppose =P ) and would be able to provide some sort of life. and you just told us that plants don't require sunlight specifically, so now all we need is a good source of water to kick things off (hmmm... would probably take a *lot* of water though... ) and you could have some kind of settlement in the flow =P i was thinking ships made of certain materials would be rather unwelcome (certain metals which cause sparks when they strike things, and probably also rock) as would ships with cargo that is likely to do so (and especially things like oil and smokepowder would be unwelcome, i would suppose). otoh, i'm starting to consider the possibility of certain materials naturally repelling the phlogiston, such that you could actually have a more normal society there (perhaps the shattered remains of a crystal sphere that was somehow destroyed by lost and unknown means?) or even a spell that pushes the phlogiston away... imo, gnomes would probably be more common to have settlements in the flow (more likely to crash, imo, but also more likely to have such a ridiculously large number of contingencyplansintheeventofaforcedlandinginthephlogistonwhileunabletoaquiresparepartstorepairtheship... (and so on) and eventually one or more of them may even work... sort of... =P |
#8wyvern76Oct 04, 2007 10:55:34 | For organic matter to grow mushrooms, think of life centered on recycling organic matter. Not just trash, but humanoid dung and the bodies of the dead. That's fine, but an ecosystem can't survive indefinitely on its own waste. There has to be a continual input of energy to keep it going. In real life, that's the sun. Now, there's plenty of of light in the Flow, but you'll need something capable of converting that light to organic matter, such as plants or algae. Lichens might work; they're formed by a symbiotic fusion of fungus and algae, and they're often the first organisms to colonize a barren habitat. Wyvern |
#9wyvern76Oct 06, 2007 10:18:21 | Phlogistonphage organism or phlogosynthesis instead of photosynthesis? Well, "photo" just means "light" -- but I suppose it's possible that some organisms might be capable of harvesting energy other than light from the phlogiston. Wyvern |
#10wyvern76Oct 08, 2007 15:07:13 | Of course, micro-organism live at the botten of the sea floor, without any sunlight. They get energy for the lava that creeps out of the sea floor. Real oasis of diverse life existe around these thermic pools. What these ecosystem are called I don't know, but it really opens up the eyes on the possiblity of ways life can developpe. Actually, they get their energy not from the heat, but by breaking down compounds such as methane and hydrogen sulfide, which are found in volcanic gases. It's a process called chemosynthesis. Wyvern |