with the passage of time, defiled land will SLOWLY regain a measure of fertility.
Dark Sun does not make it clear whether it's the land regenerating or the defiled ash being blowned away and replaced by fertile sediment/dust. It's possible defiling permanently and irrevocably drains the total life energy present on Athas. In that case, defiling is a greater crime than I ever would have thought.
On a side note, the fluff and mechanics for some spells and avangion and druid PrC abilities indicate that one person can take it's own life energy and regenerate the land with it (or in case of an arcane spell cast by a preserver...take some energy from plants and use it to fertilize the ground, or for a defiler...steal life from one place and transfer it to another).
Just realized why do SKs tolerate their court defilers. Actually they are templars/defilers, and clean up by divine rejuvenate.
That spell is Cleric & Druid only.
is it possible to mine,farm,gather and remove all the obsidian til it is all barren soil once again? how deep does the obsidian go? just a thought but i would think many groups would want to fix the deadlands.... AHRRGH! i need to hit the lotto!
also the ivory triangle is in dire need..Also, I do believe that since Defiling magic is responsible for the obsidian, , much of the obsidian produced would be Blood Obsidian, a VERY useful substance.
But I digress, my apologies. Clearing out the Deadlands would be next to impossible, could end in disaster, and would be a waste of a resource with SO much potential. There are many uses it could be put to. It would be an ideal environment for a city of Elans, if they either got rid of the undead or managed to fend them off on a regular basis. Basically, onyone with the Psionic power that lets you psionically nourish and hydrate your body could make a home out on the black glass. Theoretically, the undead could be disposed of permanently, if one had a VERY powerful army and burned all the corpses afterward. And, the place is brimming with magic unseen for the most part in any other part of Athas. The native undead have been using Necromancy for eons, and if that art became widespread, there would be a lot less temptation to defile. There are undead examples of races long since purged from the rest of Athas, and it's a relatively simple matter for a powerful spellcaster or Psion to bring them back to life.
The deadlands could really be thought of as a kind of time capsule, and if properly utilized, could help make Athas a much better place. People like Qwith have knowledge and power long since lost elsewhere.
That spell is Cleric & Druid only.
I mean 2e.
Lastard
Just realized why do SKs tolerate their court defilers. Actually they are templars/defilers, and clean up by divine rejuvenate.
They are allowed to tap the SK's Trees of Life, so they do not defile the surrounding land the SK's rely on for food, water, and slaves or which they rely on to support their slaves (ie: "citizens").
In truth, getting rid of the obsidian would be nigh-impossible, just due to its huge volume, something on the order of a 200 mile square in terms of size, and very, very deep. One would actually be better off making use of it as the possibility arose, rather than trying to clear it out. With enough time and effort, a Champion of Rajaat could carve himself an obsidian orb of just about any size, for energy storing purposes. Of course, if the old rule from 2E still applies, the SK may have to polymorph into a very large creature in order to swallow the orb, and crapping it back out could require a LOT of magical healing afterwards.
Also, I do believe that since Defiling magic is responsible for the obsidian, , much of the obsidian produced would be Blood Obsidian, a VERY useful substance.
But I digress, my apologies. Clearing out the Deadlands would be next to impossible, could end in disaster, and would be a waste of a resource with SO much potential. There are many uses it could be put to. It would be an ideal environment for a city of Elans, if they either got rid of the undead or managed to fend them off on a regular basis. Basically, onyone with the Psionic power that lets you psionically nourish and hydrate your body could make a home out on the black glass. Theoretically, the undead could be disposed of permanently, if one had a VERY powerful army and burned all the corpses afterward. And, the place is brimming with magic unseen for the most part in any other part of Athas. The native undead have been using Necromancy for eons, and if that art became widespread, there would be a lot less temptation to defile. There are undead examples of races long since purged from the rest of Athas, and it's a relatively simple matter for a powerful spellcaster or Psion to bring them back to life.
The deadlands could really be thought of as a kind of time capsule, and if properly utilized, could help make Athas a much better place. People like Qwith have knowledge and power long since lost elsewhere.
i didnt mean throw the obsidian away. thats why i said, mine,farm,gather. ofcourse the obsidian would hold huge use to the table lands. think of the stuff that could be made with all that obsidian. throw away those old wooden weapons and pick up a new OB wep today!
the SK's could also use huge amounts of obsidian to do all sorts of really evil things.
i know nothing about the undead or elans so ill take your word for it. i'd love to see more on the deadlands... :D
There's another little problem to remember with trying to remove the Obsidian from the Obsidian Plains -- the portal that put all of it there in the first place technically is still open, and removing the obsidian in a large enough quantity Could relieve enough pressure near the portal to be able to make it spew forth even more obsidian to fill in what was removed, plus potentially more.
thats cool, i could see an SK creating a method to form the obsidian as it flows through the rift. like creating huge orbs or what-have you.
i can also picturing merchant houses racing to be the first to claim the nearly unlimited amount of obsidian.. opens up a ton of ideas for sure.
They are allowed to tap the SK's Trees of Life, so they do not defile the surrounding land the SK's rely on for food, water, and slaves or which they rely on to support their slaves (ie: "citizens").
For those who don't know, the coming release by Athas.org, called Athasian Emporium, will have a magic device that will allow defilers to do just that.
For those who don't know, the coming release by Athas.org, called Athasian Emporium, will have a magic device that will allow defilers to do just that.
Hey, is that the one I'm supposed to be writing the microfiction for? (BTW, did you get my last e-mail about that? I've been sitting on the project since I hadn't heard back from you/seen you on-line.)
If you want to try your hand at writing for others, or at designing the looks of a few items (I know you can, man, I've seen your stuff and it's good!), ask Meth for the final version of the doc.
You already wrote the story for that one, silly
Ohhhh, it's that one! I was thinking of the Equipment doc in my post above (which I am supposed to be writing for, right?).
thats cool, i could see an SK creating a method to form the obsidian as it flows through the rift. like creating huge orbs or what-have you.
i can also picturing merchant houses racing to be the first to claim the nearly unlimited amount of obsidian.. opens up a ton of ideas for sure.
The obsidian plains formed from a magical catastrophe of epic proportions, due to a wizard which was under Rajaat's orders to meddle around with the planes. the Obsidian Plains aren't to be taken lightly, and are not exactly healthy for the living to approach, for multiple reasons. The Merchant Houses wouldn't be seeking/fighting for the rights to the Obsidian, because they simply do not know it is there. And it is a good thing nobody knows it is there, because the undead on the Obsidian Plains are unaware of any life, or really anything at all beyond the Obsidian Plains. If people started meddling around with the Obsidian Plains in any way, and got even a single undead which resides on it to become aware of the existence of living beings, or even that there are lands beyond the Plains... the Tablelands would have much more to worry about than a mere squabble over the "free, limitless obsidian" there.
Right now, the portal which caused the Obsidian Plains to exist, is effectively blocked -- by the Obsidian that spread out and has choked it. Break it free, and a whole new cataclysmic event could take place... or rather, would continue its advancement.
If people started meddling around with the Obsidian Plains in any way, and got even a single undead which resides on it to become aware of the existence of living beings, or even that there are lands beyond the Plains... the Tablelands would have much more to worry about than a mere squabble over the "free, limitless obsidian" there.
Not quite true, but to give away more info would be going into too much detail and spoiler territory. I will say that in MOST cases, that statement is correct. But there are very significant exceptions.
harmful effects from the enviroment can be countered with magic and possibly psionics (not to familiar with 3.5 psionics yet)
and i don't think the common undead would be too much trouble for templars and SK defilers drawing energy from the life tree. Elementalist clerics and mercenary wizards could be hired to assist merchant houses.
also manipulating the Obsidian itself is another possibility. forming walls and natural defenses to help protect from the undead.
also i'm pretty sure their are wandering tribes and clans and packs that have seen the obsidian lands and returned to spread rumors across the tablelands heard around campfires and in taverns. The Undead of the Obsidian Sea could become a sorta ghost story told to scare the kids.
the only real threat are greater undead. Like the thinking undead lords would be a big problem if they became aware. and i can picture a thousand undead coming down on any camp trying to establish itself. Just need to hire the right people for the job. 10 greater fire elementals will handle most lesser undead no problem.:evillaugh
Also, once you get past a certain point, the distance between the spellcaster and any form of plant life completely prevents the tapping of the necessary energies to cast traditional Athasian magic. Court defilers would be powerless, and even SKs would have to use stored animal life energy or draw on the life of their own nearby minions to power their spells. In essence, unless you get Hamanu, Nibenay, and Lalali-puy to get along well enough to mount a joint invasion, nothing stands a chance. Which is why it's so dangerous if the wrong Undead lord finds out about the tablelands.
The problem is, the people in control of those undead would eat those fire elementals and most anything else for lunch, and not break a sweat. This thread is getting dangerously close to dragging information out of those of us who have it, and I CAN'T elaborate on this subject more than this, but several of the undead who rule the Deadlands would be approaching candidacy for AB transformation, if they were alive and knew about it. They are no joke, and anything less than an SK would probably just end up as the newest recruit for an undead army if he was dumb enough to invade the Dead Lands.
Also, once you get past a certain point, the distance between the spellcaster and any form of plant life completely prevents the tapping of the necessary energies to cast traditional Athasian magic. Court defilers would be powerless, and even SKs would have to use stored animal life energy or draw on the life of their own nearby minions to power their spells. In essence, unless you get Hamanu, Nibenay, and Lalali-puy to get along well enough to mount a joint invasion, nothing stands a chance. Which is why it's so dangerous if the wrong Undead lord finds out about the tablelands.
Yeah, can't really get too much more in detail about it. been a long while since I looked at the Deadlands material, but I have to agree with Terminus Vortexa on this. The Deadlands, the Obsidian Plains, that is not a "hoard of wealth" that it is being alluded to by people in this thread. It is quite literally a death sentence, of the highest order. If you think for a moment that the people of the Tablelands are prepared for what's in the Deadlands, you seriously have another thing coming. I am not even certain if the remaining Sorcerer-Kings united together could stop the Deadlands if its inhabitants were motivated to attack. And making grand assumptions about what some spells do and don't do around Undead will probably result in the characters making those assumptions being killed and used for spare parts.
will probably result in the characters making those assumptions being killed and used for spare parts.
...literally. MhwahahahHAHAHAHAH!
but saying "if you go there you will die and thats that" is not very... sporty of a Designer. i mean it was put there to be used was it not? so there has to be ways to do it.
until there is some material released on the deadlands by athas.org i will assume it isnt nearly as hard as i am hearing.
i think it would be possible to simply "Appear" to be undead and fool the undead into ignoring me and continuing with my work.
also we must consider that the undead may grow weaker as they travel further from the obsidian portal. maybe if they travel to far they will just rot away or fall apart.
Everything on athas is hard, cruel and deadly. Meh i'v killed SK's and Dregoth and wounded Borys. ill take my chances! if i can't hack it, ill teleport or fly outa there!
we need fluff on the deadlands BAD!
But it's not impossible to survive the Deadlands, you just need to be very powerful (If not epic, at least approaching it) in order to do anything but skulk and hide and try your best not to get noticed. It's not so much the common populace that makes things tough (Although they are quite resilient), it's the leaders. Most of the heavy hitters are just as old as the SKs, some older, and in order to venture out onto their turf, you just need to pack some serious artillery. Traditional mages are completely useless, but Ceruleans and Shadow Wizards and Necromants suffer no penalties to their spellcasting. Also, Psionics are unaffected by the location. As I frequently say, a high-level group of Psionics users who all know Crystal Shard can hold their own against just about anything. Bring a couple of Clerics, and you shouldn't have much of a problem against the lower-level hordes. Bring a couple of EVIL clerics, and you could find yourself at the head of an army. Your party just has to be configured properly. Have your clerics make liberal use of Create Food and Water, and have your Psionics users all learn that power that lets them psionically nourish themselves. Once you eliminate the need for consumables, you have a lot more options open to you. I can't elaborate as to why, but any form of Dimension Door could potentially save your life. REMEMBER I SAID THAT, you'll understand when Secrets of the Dead Lands is finally released.
Properly prepared, the deadlands are survivable. At the proper levels of strength, they can potentially be exploited. There's a LOT of Undead out there, and a Cleric AB of an element that allows him to control Undead could potentially carve out a kingdom with relative ease. A level 35+ Cleric AB could pretty much take the whole place over, by dominating the rulers of the realms. Take over enough Bugdead colonies, and you've got a heck of a nasty army to start conquering the surrounding lands with.
And if all else fails, you could always use a few well-placed Disintegrate effects to break open the cap on that portal to the PEP of Magma. Doomsday is 50 feet below the surface of the Deadlands. If you were REALLY crafty and powerful, you could design an epic spell or power designed to bust the lid, allow magma to obliterate everything in the Deadlands, and then freeze the magma into a new cap for the portal. Theoretically, it wouldn't be too tough. Or, if you were REALLY evil, wait for the horrid tide of molten rock to encase all of Athas, then cap the portal. If you had sufficient power, you would then have an entire planet of Undead to rule. Then, all you have to do is find Dregoth's Planar Gate, and invade the plane of your choice. Bring captives to Athas, kill 'em, watch them automatically rise, and repeat the cycle over and over again. Nothing would really be able to stop you from taking over other realms at whim. And imagine all the XP you'd get in the first place for slaughtering the whole population of Athas!! You'd be so powerful , controlling all those undead would be no challenge at all..
Sorry, I had to go on that tangent/.........
The portals called Doomsday eh? thats awesome!
the idea of controlling undead is a good one, i forgot about it completely! but i don't have any living cleric's in my old game that are lvl 35. our old epic cleric died twice, once fighting nibenay and then died for good against dregoth.
on the subject of magic being useless, is it not possible to store life energy for later use in items? or find a way to travel with animal/plantlife and magically keep it alive and use it to power spells in the deadlands?
also on the subject of paranormal travel i always have an out. dimensional door, or teleport or time shift.
but im glad to hear dimensional doors work in the Deadlands!
again sorry for offtopic! but i cant help myself! its just so friggin sweet! and also thanks for the added info into the deadlands.
I need more! im fiending!
[edit] it wouldnt be possible to get some sample deadlands material out before Xmas would it? that would be one hellava gift to say the least! i understand what a request that is. i'm not gonna hold my breath, take your time. im patient... least im trying.:bounce:
The portals called Doomsday eh? thats awesome!
:
Um, perhaps I wasn't clear. I was referring to the events that could be cause by busting that portal open as Doomsday, not the portal itself. Although every potentially world-destroying portal should have a suitably ominous name!:D
Also, carrying enough plant material to be of use for spellcasting purposes would be impossible on a practical level. It's much more efficient to take a level of Necromant, Cerulean or Shadow Wizard, and bypass the problem completely.
- Arcane magic would be problematic at best, if not impossible to function in the Deadlands. It is missing something rather important there -- life. Vegetation doesn't work on Obsidian
- What do you think the temperature of smoky dark glass would reach through the heat of the day on Athas? What if there is miles and miles and miles of it in every direction? Remember the first rule of lab safety: hot glass looks exactly like cool glass.
- While we're at it, what do you think it would be like to walk on glass in general? Not evenly, unnaturally smooth glass, but stuff that is chipped, cracked, with bits and pieces of it everywhere. Bloody feet anyone?
- This is a region which some depictions I've seen of Athas (ones I like) shows that it extends an incredible distance over the surface of Athas, reflecting the cataclysmic nature of having the portal opened which formed it. It is a region that on the known maps of the southern part of Tyr region shows only a very small, and insignificant fraction of the Obsidian Plains (the Northernmost tip of it).
- Things in the Deadlands tend to be oblivious to things not in the Deadlands (and vice-versa). They have their own cultures, locations, entire civilizations, wars, and such. They have their own history that effectively reaches back to the Cataclysm that formed it all. The Secrets of the Deadlands supplement goes into detail on this.
- Obsidian has a lot of significance when it comes to Dragon Magic, and potentially Arcane magic in general. with one effectively solid slab of more or less pure obsidian stretching hundreds of miles across, all you'd need is someone who could harness its power, and use it in whatever method he or she wants. Like an Undead Dragon-King, for instance... could use the Obsidian in quite frightening ways... (a thought, not necessarily foreshadowing at all)
- Lack of food and water would make travel across the Obsidian Plains quite... challenging if not impossible for the average living adventuring party.
Arcane magic would be problematic at best, if not impossible to function in the Deadlands. It is missing something rather important there -- life. Vegetation doesn't work on Obsidian
You'll be pleasantly surprised to read of the 3 alternative methods I've added in the Athasian Emporium, usable everywhere but very useful in the Deadlands.
Obsidian has a lot of significance when it comes to Dragon Magic, and potentially Arcane magic in general. with one effectively solid slab of more or less pure obsidian stretching hundreds of miles across, all you'd need is someone who could harness its power, and use it in whatever method he or she wants. Like an Undead Dragon-King, for instance... could use the Obsidian in quite frightening ways... (a thought, not necessarily foreshadowing at all)
I believe it says so somewhere in the books, or at the very least in the fiction, that obsidian itself is nothing on its own before it's transformed by a powerful magic and psionic user, into a form that they can use. So technically those obsidian balls are no longer quite obsidian.
To do this process with the Dead Lands would require one heck of a mighty epic spell.
You'll be pleasantly surprised to read of the 3 alternative methods I've added in the Athasian Emporium, usable everywhere but very useful in the Deadlands.
I've not looked at the Athasian Emporium, so I can't say one way or another on such things.
I believe it says so somewhere in the books, or at the very least in the fiction, that obsidian itself is nothing on its own before it's transformed by a powerful magic and psionic user, into a form that they can use. So technically those obsidian balls are no longer quite obsidian.
To do this process with the Dead Lands would require one heck of a mighty epic spell.
Oh, I know. But then again, the obsidian coming out of the portal is not really a naturally occurring bunch of obsidian -- it could have some qualities that normal obsidian doesn't have as well. I've considered for my campaigns that it slowly drains the life from the living on it (except for in some certain key locations
).I've considered for my campaigns that it slowly drains the life from the living on it (except for in some certain key locations
I hope the SotDL designers, whoever they are, are reading this.
I hope the SotDL designers, whoever they are, are reading this.
No disrespect intended, Pennarin, but I'd much rather they don't alter the original material in such a drastic way. SotDL was essentially a finished 2e project, it just needed formatting and pictures. The fluff and why's and wherefores were all hammered out, and a concept like the obsidian draining the life out of the living adds a major change to a setting expansion that really is pretty perfect to begin with.
To me, and again, no disrespect intended, that idea is in the same boat as Rhulisti Zik-Chil and the Brown Tide as a bioweapon. I'm not trying to demean or insult the people who made those ideas up, but retconning such great material alters the flavor of the setting in a very profound way. As one of the very few who have read SotDL, I feel obliged to chime in on this matter.
No disrespect intended, Pennarin, but I'd much rather they don't alter the original material in such a drastic way. SotDL was essentially a finished 2e project, it just needed formatting and pictures. The fluff and why's and wherefores were all hammered out, and a concept like the obsidian draining the life out of the living adds a major change to a setting expansion that really is pretty perfect to begin with.
To me, and again, no disrespect intended, that idea is in the same boat as Rhulisti Zik-Chil and the Brown Tide as a bioweapon. I'm not trying to demean or insult the people who made those ideas up, but retconning such great material alters the flavor of the setting in a very profound way. As one of the very few who have read SotDL, I feel obliged to chime in on this matter.
I've only skimmed SotDL at best, and my ideas here are more just throwing out things to people, to understand that there is a lot about the Obsidian Plains which makes grand plans for trying to strip mine or whatever to the obsidian plains is a fool's errand.
It's definitely a cool idea for one's own game, I just don't want to see it made canon :D
Never said it had to be. Never even implied it as such, to my knowledge.
It's not because ToTDL is "already" done that it can't be modified with cool ideas. Making the glass anathema to the living ensures the living stay out of it for so long.
I myself want very badly to add a new idea in there, something really cool I'll discuss on the templarate list.
Never said it had to be. Never even implied it as such, to my knowledge.
That part of my response was directed at Pennarin's respons. I should have been more clear :D
I'm gonna have to get me a flyer.
just don't make it impossible to play there. if the players risk losing their long time characters they simply wont want to play it if they feel their is almost no chance of success. I know i wouldnt take my Mul into the deadlands without some serious backup. and even then id have 10 ways out or i wouldnt go.:D
I'm gonna have to get me a flyer.
For my campaigns, I make it impossible for the living to really play there. If people want to play there, I have them start an undead campaign, and they don't leave the Deadlands. I simply don't let them mix. With a notable exception, I've had Dregoth in a campaign go there, and rally the undead under his banner, mainly to seek vengeance on those that wronged him -- his murderers, and those that prevented his ascension to godhood (basically: the adventuring party). The Tablelands were not ready for that particular complication.
from my impression you cant really go there as a low level, and people who play and earn high levels normally like to stick with their main character. and no one wants to put their veteran character through the ringer just to get killed off. unless ofcourse they want to come back as undead. but thats unlikely as the Out of character knowledge shouldnt be allowed in game. so unless the player studies the deadlands for years they wont have any idea on the benefits it could have. The deadlands sound harsh enough. even for epic characters of 20+ sounds like they could die. so making it harder is pointless. this isnt a video game. lol. Godmode! You Take 50d20 Damage per round while you stand any where near the portal, even buried. (Thats an exaggeration btw.
so i think its a cool idea and all, but not for canon material. atleast not constantly, maybe once a week players make fort saves or lose a point of con, and if the their con drops to zero they become undead. but not daily. thats just to much. after 3 days someone could be near death if not dead just from the effects of the obsidian, as that sounds awesome for storyline purposes, it would suck for the player being inflicted with these affects.
Do understand, for them to go to the Deadlands, they must know of its existence. They don't just look at the map and say "I want to go there!" -- because the characters themselves don't actually have... well, a map. Nor would they really understand the symbols on it, since odds are, they can't read, nor have they ever looked at a map before. And if there is one thing that can get a character killed in my campaigns, it is using player kowlege without some in-game explanation for how they knew of something they shouldn't have.
Isn't there something in Preservers and Defilers about it taking years to restore the vitality of defiled land?
I thought that meant through the natural course of things. My understanding is that the defiling process just destroys existing fertility in the area, not creating a taint that would destroy imported fertile material. I'm not sure why a couple hundred half-giant-sized wheelbarrows of bat guano wouldn't accelerate that process. :D Have I missed something?
That almost sounds like opening a portal of bat guano... a mess to rival the Deadlands? ;)
Trouble is, that since recent rumblings in the Gray have sealed Athas of from D&D 2.5.397's quasi and demiplanes, Gretch's preserver counterparts are unlikely to locate a plane of quasidemipseudoelemental bat guano.