in another thread, I mentioned some work I'm doing on a Karameikos-based campaign starting with Eye of Traldar.
I'm considering using the material developed by Havard on Argos, the Witches of Dymrak and the Seer of the Lake of Lost Dreams.
To this end, I've considered what kind of Entropic cults would oppose the Seer (and therefore the Traladaran Three).
We know that there must be a number of goblinoid followers of Entropic Immortals -- Orcus, Leptar, Yagrai, Ranivorous and Jammudaru are the most likely, though Hel, Nyx, Alphaks and other Entropics might be considered.
I've listed some ideas on these tribes in this list of goblinoid tribes of Karameikos.
I'm also considering what type of Entropic cults could be found among humans.
I've collected some info on the topic on the Italian MMB, which I'm reposting herebelow:
- Elwyn the Ardent (B9), former priestess of Chardastes, now of Leptar. She's a C6 with some acolytes.
- The Monastery on the Hill (B5) was devoted to an obscure but most likely Entropic cult, now has a single surviving monk.
- Jolenta and Rucker (B10) are both Reavers of the Iron Ring and C4. From their names, Jolenta seems to have a Traladaran origin, while Rucker might be Hattian.
- Bailakask (B10) is a werewolf who is also a priestess, most likely of some Entropic power.
- Bernal (B12) is also a C4, and is a longtime follower of the "Queen" Ilyana Penhaligon.
- There's an evil priest, Petrides with necromantic powers hidden near Stallanford (B11). He's a C3.
- There's the Temple of Evil Chaos in B2, which has several priests.
- Paurillian (from Eye of Traldar) is another evil priest, C3. He works as an undead programmer for von Hendricks and/or the Iron Ring.
Except for Elwyn's case, we do not know what Immortals these clerics worship.
I have a couple guesses:
- It's likely that Fort Doom's Thyatian population follow the CoK. However, being generally Hattian (they came with von Hendricks) and not so nice, it's quite likely they have Storm Soldiers -- probably the priests of the CoK in Fort Doom are radical followers of Alfric Oderbry. So a cult of Thanatos could survive here. Occasional Thanatons might also be the result of delving too deep into Taymoran ruins.
- The Iron Ring must sell slaves somewhere. There are few nations in the Known World where outright slavery is accepted -- Thyatis and Ostland, mostly. It's likely that the Iron Ring trade with Jaibul, where Karameikan slaves could be easily sold with little or no questions asked on the legitimacy of their status. So, it's also possible that the Iron Ring picked up the cult of Hel (as Kala) and of related Immortals in their Sindhi personae. This Thyatianized Sindhi cult could be the primary Iron Ring cult, followed by the likes of Rucker, Jolenta and Paurillian.
- Finally, Orcus is involved in Karameikan affairs through the Witches of Dymrak and Argos, as well as being the patron of evil lycanthropes (such as Bailakask). He could also be the patron of Leptar (who looks definitely like a demon, though not one of the "greater" types -- he looks like a Bar-lgura), giving him a link to Elwyn. I suppose there could be an ancient Traladaran evil cult worshipping primarily Orcus, but also Leptar and Demogorgon.
Each of these cults might have its reasons for being at odd with the Seer, as well as for trying to put their hands on the Eye of Traldar.
Orcus' cult has obvious motives, while Thanatos' cult could be trying to use the powers of the Eye to locate and revive an ancient Taymoran Vampire King.
The Sindhi cult is directly linked to the Iron Ring, so it serves the interests of the greater Masters (and von Hendricks', to a certain extent).
GP
Thyatians also potentially have a chance to worship Loki (as Farbautides) and Alphaks.Indeed, both are possible, though Alphaks might be not as common as the others, as Thyatians in Karameikos seem to be less concerned about Alphatia than those in Thyatis.
Loki could also appear as part of the Iron Ring cult.Nyx could have been a patron of any number of undead in Traladara's Dark Age, and become known to the Traladarans as someone to placate.
Nyx is not as evil as most Entropics. She's probably worshipped by humanoid tribes such as the Dark Web, and she was the main patron of Taymor, so ruined temples of Nyx might be found deep underground -- below the level of Traldar ruins.If Haven exists in the eastern mountains of the Grand Duchy, then Arik might also have minions or a reputation in that part of Karameikos.
It's indeed possible, but most other Entropics would avoid ties with Arik, due to his imprisonment. He would be still trying to escape his prison dimension, so followers of Arik might come to eastern Karameikos for that purpose. I don't think he would have a native following, though.
GP
What powers are you giving the Eye of Traldar? Just curious!
Up to now, I've only assumed it is able to cast any divination spell -- though whether a user is able to access a given spell might depend on the power of the user.
I suppose Havard might have developed the Eye more than I did, though.
GP
First of all I am really flattered that you are using my ideas for your campaign!
My original concept regarding the Immortals you mention was the idea of the Evil Trinity, a trio of Demon Lords to oppose the Traladaran Three. I originally used Orcus, Demogorgon and Arik to fill those roles. You have stated reasons for not wishing to involve Arik, at least not directly and they make sense to me. I can also understand why you wouldnt want to use Demogorgon. I used him/her because of the idea of Three Demon Lords, and because he appeared in the Gold Box which gave him a sense of classic-ness that I was looking for. That said, Demo really faded into the background as the campaign went on.
IIRC I used Orcus as the patron of all the Clerics you list, except Ellwyn. I would definately use him as patron for the Clerics from B10,B11 and B12. Orcus is an arch enemy of Halav and I have also used him as the sponsor and ally of Leptar. IMC Leptar is specifically a patron of the Iron Ring so Clerics of that organization will likely be followers of him if you go with that concept.
Your idea of having old temples of Nyx from the Taymoran days around has alot of potential IMO. I'd say Nyx doesnt have much interest in the region right now, though this could ofcourse change if enough activity happens around those temples.
My idea for Alphaks where Karameikos is concerned is that he first becomes involved in the region after WotI. As Alphatia is removed from the surface he has more free time on his hands and the arrival of Terrari and what he sees as an Alphatian School of Magic means he will turn some of his destructive efforts towards Karameikos.
Jammudaru and Hel's connections seem a bit thin even though I agree that Iron Ring connections in Sind make sense. Ranivorous would have more of an interest in Karameikos, especially in the Death's Head Gnolls from B10. Wogar will have a following among the Goblins of Dymrak. The Orcs (some detail on those in the Penhaligon Trilogy) and Hobgoblins are likely Orcus followers IMO.
I haven't statted out the Eye of Traldar, but I'll see if I can post some more thoughts on it later.
Hope this helps
Havard
Sorry it took me so long to reply to this thread!
No problem.
First of all I am really flattered that you are using my ideas for your campaign!
My original concept regarding the Immortals you mention was the idea of the Evil Trinity, a trio of Demon Lords to oppose the Traladaran Three. I originally used Orcus, Demogorgon and Arik to fill those roles. You have stated reasons for not wishing to involve Arik, at least not directly and they make sense to me. I can also understand why you wouldnt want to use Demogorgon. I used him/her because of the idea of Three Demon Lords, and because he appeared in the Gold Box which gave him a sense of classic-ness that I was looking for. That said, Demo really faded into the background as the campaign went on.
Actually, Demogorgon could fit quite well, since the theme of the trio could be demonic -- she could replace Jammudaru (who isn't a demon). I'd keep Leptar instead of Arik, for the reasons stated above, though Arik could still appear as another part. The Entropic cults might be even infiltrated by OB cultists bent on freeing Arik, for example.
IIRC I used Orcus as the patron of all the Clerics you list, except Ellwyn. I would definately use him as patron for the Clerics from B10,B11 and B12. Orcus is an arch enemy of Halav and I have also used him as the sponsor and ally of Leptar.
I agree, Orcus is certainly the best guess for Leptar's sponsor.
IMC Leptar is specifically a patron of the Iron Ring so Clerics of that organization will likely be followers of him if you go with that concept.
I'm trying to differentiate the IR Clerics from the general Orcus/Leptar cults, so I'd probably give them Hel, Masauwu, Loki and the like as their patrons -- probably as a pantheon based on the Sindhi identities of those Immortals.
Your idea of having old temples of Nyx from the Taymoran days around has alot of potential IMO. I'd say Nyx doesnt have much interest in the region right now, though this could ofcourse change if enough activity happens around those temples.
She might resent the interference in her old temples, or the temples may contain undead priests that can be awakened by unwitting adventurers.
My idea for Alphaks where Karameikos is concerned is that he first becomes involved in the region after WotI. As Alphatia is removed from the surface he has more free time on his hands and the arrival of Terrari and what he sees as an Alphatian School of Magic means he will turn some of his destructive efforts towards Karameikos.
Indeed. At this stage (circa 1001 AC) I'm only involving him as the patron of the Roaring Fiends (a.k.a. the Pit Fiends in the Fort Doom DM article), a band of Hobgoblins that serve the Black Eagle.
Jammudaru and Hel's connections seem a bit thin even though I agree that Iron Ring connections in Sind make sense.
Indeed, I'd agree that Jammudaru could be better replaced with Demogorgon in eastern Karameikos, and reserved for the Sindhi connections of the IR.
Ranivorous would have more of an interest in Karameikos, especially in the Death's Head Gnolls from B10.
Yes. There aren't many Gnoll bands in Karameikos -- I only list the Faceslashers (B12), the Death's Head (Galt-Kalat, B10) and Rashak's Reavers (DM article) in the spreadsheet.
Wogar will have a following among the Goblins of Dymrak.
Especially among the wolf riding Kloss-Lunk.
The Orcs (some detail on those in the Penhaligon Trilogy) and Hobgoblins are likely Orcus followers IMO.
Yes. As mentioned above, Orcus and Leptar are closely connected, so the tribes where I put Leptar would basically worship both.
However, there are exceptions -- some less evil Orcs, like the Dark Web, could worship non-Entropic Immortals: I put Nyx and Korotiku for the Dark Web, and Kaarash for some warrior tribes of western Karameikos.
I haven't statted out the Eye of Traldar, but I'll see if I can post some more thoughts on it later.
Thanks
Hope this helps
Sure it does
GP
Timeline
Random Notes about the Eyes
Archaeology
Book of Zirchev
Red Hand of Doom notes
A while back I did a similar campaign. In fact, I've spent most of my Mystara time in Karameikos developing an story arch dealing with the Eyes of Traldar. Some of my notes might be of some use to you, but then again, they might not...
Sure, I did read your posts on the Sielo's Fort campaign, and the Red Hand of Doom adventure. It's all very interesting, and indeed I'm getting inspiration from your campaign notes
GP
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I'm in ur thread, stealing ur plot ideaz
Random Notes about the Eyes
I'm definitely going to use the Eye of Traldar + Black Opal Eye idea, with some modifications. Specifically, I'm not going to have Caymen in the Blight Swamp, but rather Lizardmen of the Malpheggi variety. I'm considering having the Blight Swamp contended between a Black Dragon vassal of Azem (not her most loyal subject, obviously) and the Vampire Rosentus (an agent of the now-undead witch Trinkla).
The Black Opal Eye was brought out of Elyas' tower by adventurers after the defeat of the three witches. Unfortunately, it came into the possession of the Thyatian officer Rosentus. Rosentus was somewhat of a scholar, and was able to connect the Eye to legends about Trinkla. He volunteered for leading the expedition to the Blight Swamp, but was attacked by Lizardmen natives right after he located Trinkla's tomb. He was then able to revive the undead witch, who transformed him into a vampire servant.
Rosentus is now in charge of recovering the Black Opal Eye from the Lizardmen, and Azem opposed him by sending her vassal to occupy the swamp and lead the lizardmen, as well as by instructing lizardmen shamans -- each tribe now has shaman worshippers of the Great One to protect against the vampire's attacks.
Red Hand of Doom notes
I'm considering the addition of some complications to the plot. First, the composition and leadership of the Horde. While Argos is involved, he's not going to provide too much support -- he's committing a few of his small green dragon vassals, as well as some Jaggadash, Red Blade and Kloss-Lunk goblins, but the largest part of the Horde is made up by the goblin followers of the Dymrak Dread, Kosivikh. Obviously, Kosivikh needs to be powered up to be the final boss of a campaign, and needs a reason to be involved with Orcus: I'm making him a full-fledged Werewolf, and I'm giving the Dread Horde an Orcus-worshipping werewolf elite.
Moreover, Orcus has set in motion a second plan -- through one of his priests, Bernal, he has led Ilyana Penhaligon to the discovery of the powerful sword of Queen Elendorath. He needs the sword's power to control the north-eastern Goblinoids who are not subject to either Argos or the Witches of Dymrak. Bernal's goal is to bottle Penhaligon's and the northern keeps' forces in the siege of Penhaligon, thus allowing the Dread Horde to move on to Kelvin via the Moor without significant opposition.
This allows to tie in B12.
The involvement of Koriszegy can be explained by having Orcus' envoys promise the Count freedom from the curse that confines him to his castle.
Unfortunately for Koriszegy, the promised cure works, but only until the Immortal who cursed him doesn't notice -- at that point Orcus is going to back down to avoid a conflict with another powerful Entropic (maybe Alphaks?). So, Koriszegy's involvement is limited in time, but will be extremely dangerous -- not only the Count can send powerful undead servants to help the Dread Horde (his vampire spawn are not limited by the curse), but he can also use the old battlefields near Kelvin to raise a legion of lesser undead (skeletons).
Moreover, once he's freed, he will go on a killing spree, causing a vampiric plague in Luln.
These are going to be the two decisive points (each involves a major shift in the fighting forces at the Battle of Kelvin -- defeating Ilyana frees the northern goblinoids from her magical control and allows the northern Karameikan reinforcements to reach Kelvin, while foiling Koriszegy removes some undead units from the Battle, as well as allowing the Callarii to send reinforcements), though some other missions may be set up -- e.g., helping the dwarven/gnomish forces from Highforge reach Kelvin without being engaged by the Dread Horde, or carrying help requests to Threshold by boat.
GP
P.S.: Note that I don't have the Red Hand of Doom adventure, so I'm mostly building on your outline and existing adventures set in Karameikos -- e.g., I want to play out B12 at some point (though not after B11, most likely), so I'm fitting it into the picture.
P.P.S.: One idea I'm toying with is to let the players handle both the Battle of Kelvin (mass combat using Birthright or War Machine rules) and the part of the Battle that involves directly Duke Stefan and Kosivikh (in addition to their own actions, if they are involved).
The outcome of the two events is going to affect the rest of the adventure, both in the placement of the final act (the PCs infiltrating the Dread Horde stronghold, which may at this point be in Kelvin, or Morphail's old fief in the Moor, or even in Xitaqa, if the Battle ended up in a major success) and in the strength of the enemy in the last encounters.
I'm definitely going to use the Eye of Traldar + Black Opal Eye idea, with some modifications.
Good stuff! I never really got around to working on how the Black Opal Eye got to the Blight Swamp. It was one of those messy things that I just ignored for the time being.
The involvement of Koriszegy can be explained by having Orcus' envoys promise the Count freedom from the curse that confines him to his castle.
Yes! I love it! In the Red Hand of Doom, the players find a phil-...phyla-...um...a lichy thing that keeps liches from permanently dying. (don't know how it's spelled and I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment). It turns out that the Horde is holding it hostage in return for undead suppport. The players return it to the lich in exchange for a promise not to have undead involvement.
As far as Koriszegy, there would have to be a bit of a change. Perhaps there is a magical item/artifact that had already been delivered to Koriszegy that would allow him to break the curse. The players would have to infiltrate his lair and destroy the item before it could be used in a (deep and evil voice) HIDEOUS PAGAN RITUAL!!
That would earn the players a seriously evil enemy and have them looking over their shoulders at night...
P.S.: Note that I don't have the Red Hand of Doom adventure, so I'm mostly building on your outline and existing adventures set in Karameikos -- e.g., I want to play out B12 at some point (though not after B11, most likely), so I'm fitting it into the picture.
Well, you certainly don't need to get the Red Hand of Doom. You have plenty of great ideas yourself. However, more and more, the Red Hand of Doom is starting to become one of my favorite non-Mystara adventures. There are just so many great concepts of adventure design that are used (and discussed in sidebars by the authors...very valuable) that it is by far the best RPG purchase that I made in the past decade.
... the Red Hand of Doom is starting to become one of my favorite non-Mystara adventures ... by far the best RPG purchase that I made in the past decade.
Hmmm, your advertising is tempting me to take a look at it! I always find that my best games come from modifying existing plots (like WotI for instance, or the adventures from Gaz3).
As far as Koriszegy, there would have to be a bit of a change. Perhaps there is a magical item/artifact that had already been delivered to Koriszegy that would allow him to break the curse. The players would have to infiltrate his lair and destroy the item before it could be used in a (deep and evil voice) HIDEOUS PAGAN RITUAL!!
All while trying to escape the Count himself -- who is probably beyond the PCs' strenght.
That would earn the players a seriously evil enemy and have them looking over their shoulders at night...
Indeed, that's one of the interesting aspects of Koriszegy as a long term/recurring villain: since he's confined to his lair, he can be much more powerful that the PCs at the beginning. He will send his minions to hunt them, of course, but the PCs will be able to decide the time of their confrontation with the Count, and maybe research his origins, powers and vulnerabilities before facing him.
There are just so many great concepts of adventure design that are used (and discussed in sidebars by the authors...very valuable) that it is by far the best RPG purchase that I made in the past decade.
Interesting.
BTW, I've checked out some reviews, I noticed that the Lich's stronghold in the adventure is within a giant stone lion... sounds familiar?
One more thing -- here is a map of north-eastern Karameikos with some additions w.r.t. the B10 map.
Most of the additions are based on a similar map made by people of the Italian MMB (which should be in the Vaults as well), plus some non-canon locations from the Vaults of Pandius (positioning is mine, since in most cases the authors of the original documents are not available).
Gorenenov and Lumm are the ruins of the towns once ruled by the Gorevich and Woszlany families. Gorenenov comes from the Traladara mini-gazetter: http://www.pandius.com/tralclan.html
Fort Boldiszarovich and Midwood come from a series on a village in the Radlebb wood that was for some reason removed from the Vaults (can't remember what happened, though).
For Goldleaf, see http://www.pandius.com/goldleaf.html
For Bywater, see http://www.pandius.com/karsettl.html
IMC the Seer lived in a small cottage on the western banks of the Lake of Lost Dreams.
The Midwood stuff was written by Beau Yarborough, wasnt it? I had no idea that stuff had been removed?
Havard
Nice map Giampaolo! I like seeing all of those locations marked off. BTW, are you using my idea that Knosht is also the town referred to as Armstead in the Penhaligon trilogy? It won't matter much I suppose.
I'm taking that part from the Italian MMB map. I guess they used your idea.
IMC the Seer lived in a small cottage on the western banks of the Lake of Lost Dreams.
That's a good guess. The island should be left to the Pixies.
The Midwood stuff was written by Beau Yarborough, wasnt it? I had no idea that stuff had been removed?
Neither I did. I discovered this looking up Midwood on the Vaults while I was writing the post. I drew the map mostly using my own backups of the Vaults while I was offline in summer, so I didn't notice this earlier.
An entry in the "updates" page on 2000 says:
Update - 29 May
Removed Beau's Midwood stuff for the time being.
Maybe Shawn can shed some light on this matter.
GP
I'm taking that part from the Italian MMB map. I guess they used your idea.
That's a good guess. The island should be left to the Pixies.
Neither I did. I discovered this looking up Midwood on the Vaults while I was writing the post. I drew the map mostly using my own backups of the Vaults while I was offline in summer, so I didn't notice this earlier.
An entry in the "updates" page on 2000 says:
Maybe Shawn can shed some light on this matter.
GP
It was at a direct request from the author who was using the information in his campaign at that time. Maybe I should get back in touch with him to see if it's OK to put it back up now.
Neither I did. I discovered this looking up Midwood on the Vaults while I was writing the post. I drew the map mostly using my own backups of the Vaults while I was offline in summer, so I didn't notice this earlier.
An entry in the "updates" page on 2000 says:
Maybe Shawn can shed some light on this matter.
GP
they'll be going back up with the next update.
they'll be going back up with the next update.
Nice, thanks