Elves as Oltecs? (Radical idea) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Elves as Oltecs? (Radical idea)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Cthulhudrew
Nov 13, 2007 20:05:41 Just throwing out an idea I had earlier today, not sure if it works all that well in application, but the theory seemed interesting:

What if we replaced the Oltec race with Elves in Mystaran history?

It seems to me that it might alleviate a couple of problems, and make for some interesting changes, among them:

1) The Belcadiz situation. Assume the Oltecs were always elves (albeit reddish skinned ones). Since we know the Spanish culture there originated among the Oltec people of the region, we no longer have to explain why the elves assimilated it when they didn't reasonably have any need to do so.
2) The Atruaghin Clans now become Amerind-themed elves rather than a random human culture that somehow remained out of synch with the outside world. The nature oriented ways of the Clans seem more in keeping with the traditional memes of Elvish culture, and as a general rule elves (with their magical natures) have always been better at resisting assimilation by human cultures than other human cultures do among themselves.

As the Oltecs don't really have any meaningful contributions to Mystara history prior to the GRoF, it would be simple enough to establish that the Oltec cultures in the north were actually remnants of the Blackmoorian elves.

It would change the nature of the Azcan Empire, of course, but that's the only real drawback I can think of offhand.
#2
maddog
Nov 13, 2007 22:38:47
Just throwing out an idea I had earlier today, not sure if it works all that well in application, but the theory seemed interesting:

What if we replaced the Oltec race with Elves in Mystaran history?

It seems to me that it might alleviate a couple of problems, and make for some interesting changes, among them:

1) The Belcadiz situation. Assume the Oltecs were always elves (albeit reddish skinned ones). Since we know the Spanish culture there originated among the Oltec people of the region, we no longer have to explain why the elves assimilated it when they didn't reasonably have any need to do so.
2) The Atruaghin Clans now become Amerind-themed elves rather than a random human culture that somehow remained out of synch with the outside world. The nature oriented ways of the Clans seem more in keeping with the traditional memes of Elvish culture, and as a general rule elves (with their magical natures) have always been better at resisting assimilation by human cultures than other human cultures do among themselves.

As the Oltecs don't really have any meaningful contributions to Mystara history prior to the GRoF, it would be simple enough to establish that the Oltec cultures in the north were actually remnants of the Blackmoorian elves.

It would change the nature of the Azcan Empire, of course, but that's the only real drawback I can think of offhand.

I like this idea alot. Changing the Azcan Empire to be an Elvish/Aztec mix wouldn't be a problem IMO. It would help explain that on-going Schattenalfen war... 'Hey! It's just another elf thing!'

--Ray.
#3
havard
Nov 14, 2007 0:19:43 Interesting... :whatsthis

For the Aztecs you could assume that they were humans who lived alongside the elves learning from them, but eventually turning to evil?

An alternative explaination (less radical) for the Belcadiz and the SC elves, could be that the Oltec civilization also existed on Davania and was in contact with the elves there for generations...

Havard
#4
agathokles
Nov 14, 2007 3:13:54
Just throwing out an idea I had earlier today, not sure if it works all that well in application, but the theory seemed interesting:

What if we replaced the Oltec race with Elves in Mystaran history?

Given that the Oltecs were also the ancestors of the Jennites, the Ethengars, and the Nithian, this would actually need to be handled by splitting the Oltecs in two -- an M-Amerindian and an M-Central Asiatic people.

It still doesn't explain much about the Belcadiz elves (why did they adopt a Thyatian-based culture anyway?), and, as you mention, there's the Azcan problem, which is mostly that the Shattenalfen already are Azcan-like elves.

GP
#5
havard
Nov 14, 2007 3:57:19 Sorry if this derails the original idea, but how about this:

1)"Greco-Latin" culture in Mystara originates in the Hinterlands when Oltecs, Milennians and Belcadiz elves meet.

2) This culture is also absorbed by Antalian slaves brought into the region by Nithians. Those slaves return to the Known World as Thyatians, Kerendans (and the more traditional Hattians).

3) Elves from the region move to Glantri, explaining the origin of the Belcadiz

4) In the Savage Coast elves, Thyatians and Oltec descended peoples meet again. Kerendan-Thyatian culture prevails here as it finds resonance among the elves and Oltec-descended humans.

5)The Athruagin are basically a remnant of Oltec culture that stayed at the Stone-Age level, even abandoning much of the technological advancements of their ancestors, possibly in order to replace it with mystical knowledge (Cities weaken the connection to Spirits etc...).

Havard

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Cthulhudrew Nov 13, 2007 20:05:41	Just throwing out an idea I had earlier today, not sure if it works all that well in application, but the theory seemed interesting: What if we replaced the Oltec race with Elves in Mystaran history? It seems to me that it might alleviate a couple of problems, and make for some interesting changes, among them: 1) The Belcadiz situation. Assume the Oltecs were always elves (albeit reddish skinned ones). Since we know the Spanish culture there originated among the Oltec people of the region, we no longer have to explain why the elves assimilated it when they didn't reasonably have any need to do so. 2) The Atruaghin Clans now become Amerind-themed elves rather than a random human culture that somehow remained out of synch with the outside world. The nature oriented ways of the Clans seem more in keeping with the traditional memes of Elvish culture, and as a general rule elves (with their magical natures) have always been better at resisting assimilation by human cultures than other human cultures do among themselves. As the Oltecs don't really have any meaningful contributions to Mystara history prior to the GRoF, it would be simple enough to establish that the Oltec cultures in the north were actually remnants of the Blackmoorian elves. It would change the nature of the Azcan Empire, of course, but that's the only real drawback I can think of offhand.
#2 maddog Nov 13, 2007 22:38:47	Just throwing out an idea I had earlier today, not sure if it works all that well in application, but the theory seemed interesting: What if we replaced the Oltec race with Elves in Mystaran history? It seems to me that it might alleviate a couple of problems, and make for some interesting changes, among them: 1) The Belcadiz situation. Assume the Oltecs were always elves (albeit reddish skinned ones). Since we know the Spanish culture there originated among the Oltec people of the region, we no longer have to explain why the elves assimilated it when they didn't reasonably have any need to do so. 2) The Atruaghin Clans now become Amerind-themed elves rather than a random human culture that somehow remained out of synch with the outside world. The nature oriented ways of the Clans seem more in keeping with the traditional memes of Elvish culture, and as a general rule elves (with their magical natures) have always been better at resisting assimilation by human cultures than other human cultures do among themselves. As the Oltecs don't really have any meaningful contributions to Mystara history prior to the GRoF, it would be simple enough to establish that the Oltec cultures in the north were actually remnants of the Blackmoorian elves. It would change the nature of the Azcan Empire, of course, but that's the only real drawback I can think of offhand. I like this idea alot. Changing the Azcan Empire to be an Elvish/Aztec mix wouldn't be a problem IMO. It would help explain that on-going Schattenalfen war... 'Hey! It's just another elf thing!' --Ray.
#3 havard Nov 14, 2007 0:19:43	Interesting... :whatsthis For the Aztecs you could assume that they were humans who lived alongside the elves learning from them, but eventually turning to evil? An alternative explaination (less radical) for the Belcadiz and the SC elves, could be that the Oltec civilization also existed on Davania and was in contact with the elves there for generations... Havard
#4 agathokles Nov 14, 2007 3:13:54	Just throwing out an idea I had earlier today, not sure if it works all that well in application, but the theory seemed interesting: What if we replaced the Oltec race with Elves in Mystaran history? Given that the Oltecs were also the ancestors of the Jennites, the Ethengars, and the Nithian, this would actually need to be handled by splitting the Oltecs in two -- an M-Amerindian and an M-Central Asiatic people. It still doesn't explain much about the Belcadiz elves (why did they adopt a Thyatian-based culture anyway?), and, as you mention, there's the Azcan problem, which is mostly that the Shattenalfen already are Azcan-like elves. GP
#5 havard Nov 14, 2007 3:57:19	Sorry if this derails the original idea, but how about this: 1)"Greco-Latin" culture in Mystara originates in the Hinterlands when Oltecs, Milennians and Belcadiz elves meet. 2) This culture is also absorbed by Antalian slaves brought into the region by Nithians. Those slaves return to the Known World as Thyatians, Kerendans (and the more traditional Hattians). 3) Elves from the region move to Glantri, explaining the origin of the Belcadiz 4) In the Savage Coast elves, Thyatians and Oltec descended peoples meet again. Kerendan-Thyatian culture prevails here as it finds resonance among the elves and Oltec-descended humans. 5)The Athruagin are basically a remnant of Oltec culture that stayed at the Stone-Age level, even abandoning much of the technological advancements of their ancestors, possibly in order to replace it with mystical knowledge (Cities weaken the connection to Spirits etc...). Havard