And you get control of Darksun and have to rerelease it. Wizards will provide staff to do art work and help design it. What would you do with the setting? Anything goes even a Yuuzhan Vong er space halfling invasion.
Noooooo please no!
I would like to see Andropinis out of it's case. It's a soooo cool SK. It would be nice to see what would happen to the city with all the Merchant Houses that took control of it.
And you get control of Darksun and have to rerelease it. Wizards will provide staff to do art work and help design it. What would you do with the setting? Anything goes even a Yuuzhan Vong er space halfling invasion.
I'd kill the rest of the SK's, make Half Giants be the most intelligent species on the planet, and make Halflings become "fine cuisine". Beyond that, I'd make the tablelands into a lake. Yup.
No friggin metaplot a'la Eberron.
I second that. Metaplots have not been kind to Athas. Not kind at all.
In fact, I think there remains a lot in the basic material that has not been explored in enough detail. Dont rush the space halflings or Kreen invasion. Remember the KISS dictum.
That said, If I was given control, I would:
1)re-release the WC, rules book and HUUUUGE tablelands map, and city state maps, all dripping with the gorgeous artwork of Brom (who we would kidnap and hold chained to his desk in a small room with only his materials and a halg giant with an attitude problem ;) )
2) roll out a series of CS books (RIGOROUSLY edited for contradictions and inaccuracies)
3) develop something along the lines of LivingGreyhawk. But for DS.
4)explore the Athasian psionic traditions and try to incorporate old skool psi combat into the 3.5 rules
5)definitively solve the Athasian magic conundrum by paying the top minds in the industry to develop a defiling system so awesome and intuitive that Id be receiving appreciative SMSs from Borys himself
And all this in the first 3 months :D
Chahir
First thing I would do is reset the timeline. Right back to when Tyr was controlled by Kalak. That way, you don't have that shining beacon of hope that was added later. I think it'd be best to start as dark as it originally was. Not that hope isn't great, but things started changing right away in Dark Sun when it was first released, and if we wanna give power back to the DM, then we need to start from scratch and see if they want to give their players a safe have like Free Tyr. (Here comes the part that'll get me lynched)
Next I'd get rid of defiling magic. It's unbalancing, and funny as it may be it isn't necessary. I would change the history of Dark Sun so that even though arcane magic doesn't destroy the world like it does now, the one who did destroy the world used arcane magic, so it has the stigma of bringing about the apocalypse. Same roleplaying vibe without being unbalanced. There, I said it, now you may crucify me.
Final thing I'll bring up here is that I would give a free psionic talent to every starting character, to bring back the idea that everybody is psionic on Dark Sun. Characters would only start at first level, however, since first level characters aren't necessarily underpowered for Athas in 4E. Rather, I would make it that there are no NPC classes, so that everybody is at least a first level hero. That was already how it was in 2E Dark Sun, but I didn't know if that was standard in the athas.org version.
That's what I could think of now. If you wanna hate me, I'm okay with that, especially since I loved defiler magic.
Okay, I'm expecting to get flamed for what I'm about to write, but I'm okay with that since this is all theoretical and may not happen. I don't doubt that a lot of people will disagree with what I say, but I want to capture the flavor of Dark Sun while making it feasible in 4E, which is about fun and balance for every class and race (hopefully, and from what I've heard). That being said I know that some changes are gonna be considered wrong (and downright heretical), but I think overall it would still capture the flavor of the setting. So here goes....
First thing I would do is reset the timeline. Right back to when Tyr was controlled by Kalak. That way, you don't have that shining beacon of hope that was added later. I think it'd be best to start as dark as it originally was. Not that hope isn't great, but things started changing right away in Dark Sun when it was first released, and if we wanna give power back to the DM, then we need to start from scratch and see if they want to give their players a safe have like Free Tyr. (Here comes the part that'll get me lynched)
Next I'd get rid of defiling magic. It's unbalancing, and funny as it may be it isn't necessary. I would change the history of Dark Sun so that even though arcane magic doesn't destroy the world like it does now, the one who did destroy the world used arcane magic, so it has the stigma of bringing about the apocalypse. Same roleplaying vibe without being unbalanced. There, I said it, now you may crucify me.
Final thing I'll bring up here is that I would give a free psionic talent to every starting character, to bring back the idea that everybody is psionic on Dark Sun. Characters would only start at first level, however, since first level characters aren't necessarily underpowered for Athas in 4E. Rather, I would make it that there are no NPC classes, so that everybody is at least a first level hero. That was already how it was in 2E Dark Sun, but I didn't know if that was standard in the athas.org version.
That's what I could think of now. If you wanna hate me, I'm okay with that, especially since I loved defiler magic.
I actually like most of what yu said apart from the defiling bit. I would probably dumb defiling down by making it similar to the shadow weave magic feat from Forgotten Realms which basically makes some schools more powerful and weakens others and have it defiles a 5' radius per level of the spell regardless of the terrain. I would either crank the timeline back to about 100 years before the Prism pentad when Kalak started building the Pyramid or advance it to around FY 1000.
Making SK's take charge of the 7 citie seems a bit bland, in my opinion. I like that there has been some turmoil that has mixed up the status quo which had lasted for a couple thousand years. I think the reduction in Sorcerer-Kings has actually improved the setting, as there is not the "same old, same old" in every City-State, variety is the spice of life and all that. I also like the feel that the Sorcerer-Kings' control is slipping, even of they are the "Big Bads" of Athasian life.
I don't like the idea that every Tom, Dick, and Harry knows about the inner/personal lives of the Sorcerer-Kings, or any of the higher-end details. I'd have a revision of the setting material in both the Wanderer's Chronicle and Wanderer's Journal which erases all notion that the Sorcerer-Kings are dragons, leaves them as nebulous overlords often treated as gods in their respective City-States. In fact, I'd ensure that any reference to The Dragon was made in terms of myth and legend, there never was any concrete proof or evidence of The Dragon's existence, and there sure as heck is nothing to prove that The Dragon is dead (rather, there are shaky stories of The Dragon's demise, built upon the questionable legends that The Dragon ever existed in the first place).
I'd play up the superstitious natures of the common Athasian; sure, Psionics are far more common than Magic, but to slaves or anyone who isn't too familiar with the differences, they'd see it all as Magic. Athasians are all taught that Magic caused their world to become nearly dead, so Magic is to blame for all their ills. Arcane vs. Divine, Preserver vs. Defiler, and even in some situations (like a mob/crowd situation) even Psionics vs. Magic are all details that the average Athasian isn't going to pay even the slightest attention to, the only thing they know is that if it looks unnatural, it is most likely Magic, and Magic is bad. Lynching-bad. Magic-users all have to hide their abilities (except for Templars, where it strongly depends on their respective Sorcerer-King as to the amount of Magic they use, the fear of the Sorcerer-King and Templarate is enough to ensure most everyone isn't stupid enough to kill a Templar just because said Templar used Magic); Nobility freely use Psionics in their day-to-day lives and are taught the more advanced details of the Way. The common Athasian may have Psionics, but little or no actual training, some may even fear their Psionics as being Magic (and Magic is bad), without having real understanding of what they are doing.
I'd also have a multitude of options for the Dungeon Master to be able to pick from for campaigns -- there's enough "ticking time bombs" available in Athas; I tend to see Athas as a world that is doomed, and irrevokably destined to become uninhabitable (or worse) within a century (yet another reason that I don't like the idea of moving the timeline forward 100 years -- it gives too much hope to the success of Athas' survival).
As far as Preserver vs. Defiler, I'd make Defiling be somewhat akin to the ideas presented by Noonian / Paizo in the Dragon/Dungoen magazines, except for removing the silly T'liz notion it presented, and instead building an inherent addictive quality to Defiling that if a Defiler tries to stop, it could result in lethat Withdrawl symptoms (depending on how much Defiling that character has done). I also would definitely position Druids as a direct opposition to Defilers specifically (but probably all Arcane spellcasters in general).
I'm also quite fond of my personal pet project on the Athasian Paladin, fully integrating them into the structure of the governments for each respective City-State.
There's more.... but basically, I'd make the setting be a lot like how I run the setting in my campaigns currently.
I probably would advance the timeline, but only 5 - 10 years. Long enough to make some changes but still in the same timeline so that a campaign started in FY 11 could still be played in the new version. I am not sure of any big changes to be made. I would leave Andpronis still trapped, but allow him so way to communiate/ influence events on Athas.
Depending on how many products we are taking about here, I would try to expand the world by detailing other areas of the planet. But instead of new areas to travel to from the Tyr region, I would focus on new areas where a campaign could begin in. Say a multi-racial civilization on the other side of the silt sea.
Also, taking a page from the Dragonlance 3rd edition, I would put out a few products set back in the original timeline of the first box set. To give people who chose to run a campaign in that timeframe something to use.
I would probably follow a similiar route as xlorepdarkhelm, though not completely. (paladins :P )
Actually, if you read about his Athasian Paladin you'd probably like it... it's not much like the standard paladin and I believe it fits the DS theme very well!
NEVER CALL THIS NUMBER AGAIN!I would probably follow a similiar route as xlorepdarkhelm, though not completely. (paladins :P )
My paladins are nothing like the PHB paladins. They are the loyal servants of Sorcerer-Kings, filling the roles of Generals, Bodyguards, and Secret Police. They keep Templars in check, don't cast spells, and typically rule through fear and intimidation. I more or less divided some of the roles that Templars were typically seen as filling in Dark Sun, and reassigned them as Paladins -- making the Paladins be the more martial branch of the City-State's government, while the Templars were the bureaucratic side. Paladins' loyalty to their respective Sorcerer-Kings are unquestioned, and they tend to be merciless in their execution of their duties.
My paladins are nothing like the PHB paladins. They are the loyal servants of Sorcerer-Kings, filling the roles of Generals, Bodyguards, and Secret Police. They keep Templars in check, don't cast spells, and typically rule through fear and intimidation. I more or less divided some of the roles that Templars were typically seen as filling in Dark Sun, and reassigned them as Paladins -- making the Paladins be the more martial branch of the City-State's government, while the Templars were the bureaucratic side. Paladins' loyalty to their respective Sorcerer-Kings are unquestioned, and they tend to be merciless in their execution of their duties.
That's almost exactly the role that the Blackguard takes in our campaign. Our Paladins are more like very militant druids.
That's almost exactly the role that the Blackguard takes in our campaign. Our Paladins are more like very militant druids.
I don't allow for blackguards in my campaigns. And my Druids already *are* very militant, I've toyed around with some of the alternate rules from Unearthed Arcana, eliminating the Animal Companion, giving them Barbarian Rage, and replacing the shapeshifting mechanics with the Aspect of Nature rules (with some additional features added as campaigns went on to add new "aspects" for Druids). My Druids are rather ticked off and very angry individuals, with a pretty good amount of resources at their disposal to handle those that dare damage what little is left of nature.
I think I would advance the timeline, make all 7 cities have Sorceror Kings (Sadira for Tyr)
I like this idea. The difficulty is how to work it without removing the feel of the setting.
Who comes back, what about things like the Cerulean Storm?
If Sadira becomes an SK, does she become mad for power, or a tyrant?
If Sadira becomes an SK, does she become mad for power, or a tyrant?
Since, at the end of the PP, she was already sprinting full speed down that road I would say, yes.
The Templars "power" granted by the SKs is an official one, as they are the Executive branch of the SKs power, but are like anyone else relying on what psionics or magic they themselves have/have been trained to use to carry out their duties to their SK and city-state. This is not to say they're just mooks, but are typically the most badassedy of state employees.
In my home setting, I've merged the cleric with the monk class and added an elemental theme/template, which I kinda like cinematically. They have a Mr. Miyagi healing talents and have martial arts styles with elemental traits/powers. Earth= defensive/able to take a pounding, Air= stealth "in and out like the wind", Water= fluid combat style and highly adaptive, Fire= aggressive/offensive tactics including energy attacks like chi blasts/fireballs etc. In my head anyways, this seems to be decent compromise
I like the threat of a Kreen invasion and would play up a Starship Troopers feel to it.
The feral halflings would still be widely known as primitive cannibals. With their jungles being a valuable resource, brave groups would be needed for expeditions for lumber, medicines, and exotic foods that fetch large prices in the cities, assuming you can survive the halflings and the wildlife.
Dregoth would be one of the major changes for me, making him more of a type of vampiric dragon and creating spawn that are beginning to threaten the region. But, I suppose most folk here would consider that metaplot and pass on it.
Shane
The death of 3 SKs and the banishment of another does not make DS any less dark. A campaign is as dark and gritty as the individual DM makes it.
I'd skip back to pre-PP time and re-immerse the setting in the dark, gritty roots it came from.
Actually, I find the chaos surrounding the power struggles within the crumbling city-states which now are devoid of their former unilateral dictators which held them under each one's thumb for a couple thousands of years, societies rife with illiteracy and a complete lack of knowledge of how to self-govern and rule to be far darker. The status quo has been broken, the comfort in the familiarity of being ruled by petty super-powerful tyrants no longer exists. People are forced into a new level of survival in the harsh, deadly world of Athas.
Fear of being attacked by one of the surviving Sorcerer-Kings, the in-fighting and anarchy that runs rife through Raam, the cold manipulation of the former templars and the psionics academy in their vie for power in Draaj (a very dangerous game that if they screw up, Draj could end up a lot like Raam), the bickering and attempts at supreme control by the merchant houses in Balic, heck... even the fledgling and uncertain so-called "deomcracy" in Tyr, being handled by people who really don't have any idea what a democracy really is... honestly, I think it gives each of those city-states more character, they are unique, and are, in many ways, in much more dire circumstances than Hamanu's Urik, Lalai-Puy's Gulg, or Nibenay's umm... Nibenay.
To boot, what do you honestly think is the odds that Sadira's spell and wards will really keep Rajaat imprisoned any more than he wants to be, considering her magic weakens every night (at sunset, then is replenished at sunrise)? I personally think Rajaat is securing his position, to do the insane "overkill", ensuring his absolute victory in a single fell swoop.... for that, he needs time to prepare... where better to do so than in the Hollow, with all of his potential threats believing that he is "imprisoned" again?
Excellent, Cliff!
Excellent, Cliff!
Thanks. I mean... At least in Urik, Gulg, and Nibenay, the peope are offered a level of protection from outside forces, there is some sense of stability, repetition and habit become very comfortable. Even a slave is afforded a sense of being protected by his or her master.
In Tyr, where there is no slavery... that definitely doesn't mean things are even remotely better. Like I said, there is a level of protection and security afforded to slaves. Most slaves are guaranteed to have whatever is the bare minimum to survive upon (a master which doesn't feed or give water to his or her slaves is a master whose slave workforce rapidly depletes). Now, the people are being forced more or less on Tyr's crowded streets, people with really no skillsets to speak of, they are no longer afforded security or safety. What was once the work of slaves now is the work of day-laborers (more or less). The day-laborers are offered work for money... but not necessarily enough money to survive on, nor is there enough money to go around so the land owners are using a smaller labor force to do the equivalent amount of work (thus not dipping as much into their profits). That means that there probably are quite a few people who would starve or die of thirst in Tyr now... which means petty crime probably is increasing -- people being forced to steal what they can just to survive. And without the iron fist of the Tyrant of Tyr and his Templars with their magic... it is a far cry harder for the peace to be kept. At least when there was slavery, a lot f those woes could have been avoided. I believe that all Tyr did was exchange one set of problems for a completely different but equivalent set of problems.
Raam -- anyone who thinks a city in constant anarchy and open warfare on the streets is "better" than having a semblance of order under a super-powerful and somewhat tyrannical ruler like the Grand Vizier may need to take a look at what a war-torn condition has done to places like Bosnia/Croatia (the former Yugoslav states). Raam is *not* pleasant. There is no order, except the order granted by the sword. I think this place would honestly do better if Dregoth *did* take it over, if only to reestablish some kind of law in the city -- even if he kills or transforms all of the population into Dray.
Draj -- The *only* way order is still being maintained here is through a facade, played out through a conspiracy between the former Templarate and the Psionics Academy. They put a puppet-king in the throne, which they manipulate, and have convinced the population that he's the heir to the throne. So far, their masquerade has played out... but what if the power of the king is ever actually needed? What happens if anyone slips, and the charade is revealed for what it is? It is a very dangerous game that the conspirators are playing. One which if it is ever discovered, their individual life expectancies are probably measured in hours, not years. Draj is a city-state of warriors, after all.
Balic -- Three merchant houses vie for control of this city-state. They all are at odds with each other, and have their personal vendettas and reasons for taking charge. They are radically different, but somewhat have a balance of power. The people are simply puppets in the power play of these houses. Meanwhile, in the shadows, it seems that Andropinis' Templars, at least some of them, can communicate with their banished monarch. I'd lay good money on that they are the more insidious and dangerous threat. It is most likely in their interests to have the three Houses fight each other and possibly destroy each other in the process. So... they play all sides against the middle in the triangle. Exactly who in this city is safe?
I mean.... these aren't exactly what I'd call any less "dark" than Urik, Gulg, or Nibenay...
Unless it's the original designers...I don't want anything to do with it.
As for the CityStates, I like all but Tyr. Tyr needs a facelift to be more interesting. It feels to me like it has been the focus of so much story in Darksun that it's been 'resolved' and is now somewhat flat and used. It needs a spark to make it interesting again. Someone else mentioned a new SK in Sadira. Interesting thought. I like also the notion that Hamanu is applying economic takeover tactics to gain influence in Tyr.
I think the biggest thing that I would do is resolve the Dregoth issue, encourage non SK baddies such as independent dragons or cult-like factions other than the Veil and The Order to take center stage for a while, and allow some form of resolution to take place in Raam, Balic and Draj. Raam cannot keep up the constant tug-o-war, and after the attack by Dregoth, it would be a good time to solidify the city for a while. Someone should come forward and lead the city back to a semblance of normalcy. Draj, on the other hand, is cool as it is, but I would like to explore having a powerful Illusionist or shapeshifter take the throne and assume the position of the boy-king. A new breed of self-made SK of sorts. And Balic would be very cool to see Andropinis rule from the Black much like a Kingpin from jail. Just because he is not physically present does not mean his power or influence wain.
Nibenay and Gulg seem to be adjusting to a new era of 'neo-green-period', or at least gearing up for it, and it would be interesting to see what would happen there. The Oba cannot marry the Shadow King because that would make her a servant on par with his Templars basically, She would never go for that, but an alliance/partnership would be powerful and productive for both cities after fighting over resources and land for so many years.
Urik is cool as an isolated fortress city, no changes really there, although a decent adventure there would be cool to further explore what we saw through Pavek's eyes.
Other than that, I would like to see more from the 'new' CityStates and explore what the events of the last 10-12 years have done to trade and lifestyles throughout.
Also, I have always loved the idea of dwarven silt pirates, so I would like to expand and explore the eastern map into new realms in the Silt Sea (and below).
I had a few ideas for a campaign set in FY 1000 where each city would have a Sorcerer monarch and the focus of the campaign would be the restoration of Athas.
With all the recent events in our real world (worldwide climate change, global heating and the recalcitrant nations that refuse to sign the Kyoto Protocol), the DARK SUN campaing theme has become even more appealing to the general people (not only the old DS fans), than it was in 1992, when the original boxed set was first released (I remember too, that was in 1992 the "Earth Summit" or "United Nations Conference on Environment and Development" was held in Rio de Janeiro, where 155 countries signed the first protocol containing commitments for change in the development pattern during the forthcoming century, calling it Agenda 21. Later, came the Kyoto protocol).
DARK SUN still commercially viable and has a great profit potential... even greater today than it had 15 years before when it was first released (see also for the Dragon magazine´s article sales).
However, to bring back the setting I would have no compromisse in maintaing the old history or the events described in the old material. It would still be Dark Sun, but also a NEW DARK SUN.
The ideia of 7 city-states (or nine) with 7 demi-god SK monarch seens not good for me. In my DM expirience, it proved to make the setting very static. Since it´s very difficult for heroes (or others NPCs) to challenge the SKs (ignoring prism pentad novels and events), the status quo of the world tend remain immutable (even wars between cities become difficult, since the SKs normally prefer not fight against each other... the destruction of a rival SK or city-state would mean a increase in the levy payed by each remaining city-states to the Dragon).
It would be better to have much more city-states, with diferent government types, and different postures reggarding slavery, arcane magic and enviromental restoration. We could have more free city-states (not only Tyr), some ruled by democratic councils, others by powerful oligarchies, others by strong chiefs. These free city-states would also vary in political position reggarding slavery, arcane magic and enviromental restoration. Most of the free-cities would be against slavery and for enviomental restoration, but we could also have some neutral free city-states that would be both for slavery and for enviromental restoration. Also, few free city-states would seek SKs for protection (or even lack of choices), and also be positioned for slavery and against restoration.
I would keep some enslaved city-states with tyrants and despots as the SK´s (just as they already are in the original DS campaing, but less in number, maybe 3 or 4 only --- Hamanu, Nibenay, Dregoth --- also would keep Lalaly-Puy as a neutral and ambiguous Sorcerer-Queem --- and Oronis as the enlightened monarch that would keep a hidden alliance with the free-cities). The SK´s would still be all powerfull wizards and magic providers for templars but they would have a political hidrances. That is, even sharing the same political visions for slavery and against restoration, SK´s would have great difficult to establish alliances with each other, since they would compete and not trust each other (specially the Hamanu, Dregoth and Nibenay). For the free-cities, even being weeker, it would be easier for then to stablish coalitons to provide mutual help and resist against a SK attack.
I would keep the Dragon of Tyr alive and the obligation for all cities (free or not) to pay the levy. Besisdes that, the Dragon would not interfere with the politics of the table lands, he would come take his levy, prey some villages and caravans, and go back home.
I would keep the halflings in the forest ridge as it is.
I would erase the idea of the Kreen´s Empire. Maybe TK´s could have a home region or special territory where they are more numerous and dominant, but they would not be organized as an "empire". There would be a variable number of roaming packs linked with each other, and with an overall TK chief that could assemble and unit the packs in times of need or for war.
The same for elves, who would be in a constant war with the TKs. However, I would create at least one elven seatlement, maybe enlarging silver spring.
I would also erase the prism-pentad history.
I would drop psionics of the setting for many reasons: first because a "comercial" setting cannot have psionics; second because WoTC didn´t preseted in 3.5e a good solution for psionics; and thrid because Magic would be the only and most powerful supernatural force.
I would keep metal scarcity to remember people of the real world that our natural resources will not last forever.
The focus of the campaign would be the strugle against the SK´s and the restoration of Athas.
And that´s all. Maybe WoTC "wakes up one day"...
I'd return Psionics to more of a 2nd Edition setup, where it tends not to have Verbal, Somatic or Material components, to make it more distinct from Arcane and Divine magic. It would be less powerful, to balance out.
Of course, I'd probably convert the whole thing over to the Hero System, but then I'm pretty much insane...
The comet did reputedly crash some where in the vicinity of the Kreen Empire after all.
When did this happen?
If I had control of Dark Sun, I'd probably erase the Prism Pentad history, with a view to an epic-level set of adventures so the PCs eventually end up making those changes.
I really like that idea. An adventure path culminating with the PCs being epic running the same course as the PP would have been much better than watching the pre-generated characters do it while the PCs are relegated to killing rats in some merchant's cellar.
I'd return Psionics to more of a 2nd Edition setup, where it tends not to have Verbal, Somatic or Material components, to make it more distinct from Arcane and Divine magic. It would be less powerful, to balance out.
Less powerful, but more common definitely fits the setting.