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Anything New and a Lot of It...Please

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
dragmorian
Dec 06, 2007 17:11:29 I'll take just about anything as long as it ISN'T just one or two campaigns supported to death. In 2nd edition, I could play...hmmm...let see:
Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Council of Wyrms, Darksun, Mystara, Red Steel, Birthright, Ravenloft, Planescape and I'm sure there's tons I'm forgetting. All from official Dungeons and Dragons books and many of which were brand new in 2nd ed.

In 3.0 and 3.5 if I want to play a campaign setting from Wizards of the Coast contained in an actual Campaign Book I can play...hmmm...let see:
Forgotten Realms and Ebberron (Which I'm sorry...feels like Forgotten Realms with a dash of magical technology thrown in.)

And I think maybe they made a book for Dragonlance? But hey, at least I can buy a source book for just about every minor culture or large grove of trees in the Forgotten Realms!

I'm all for campaign worlds being supported by continuing books but not at the cost of ever seeing something new. I really really don't want the only thing available in the first year or two of 4e to be Forgotten Realms and Ebberron. I've played those. A lot! And Wizards just released 3.5 books for those what like a year ago? Two?

I really hope we get not only updated 4e version of some of those 2nd ed campaigns but also lots of new and interesting worlds to play in. And preferably worlds that come with some rules that really break the standard flavor of D&D. I liked that in 2nd ed Darksun gave you psionic wild talents, strange new races and every standard race reimagined, Birthright gave you rules for running a country and mysterious blood powers. Red Steel had a strange dust over everything that both helped and hurt. Council of Wyrms let you play a dragon.

In 3e the Forgotten Realms gave us...umm...regional feats? And Ebberron gave a couple of interesting new races and ummm...dragon mark feats? That were only appropriate for specific character ideas.

New campaigns are what make me excited to play D&D. They give me new stories to tell in new ways with characters I just COULDN'T have in the standard D&D western Europe during the middle ages with lot of magic world.

A new edition of rules is fine, but a new edition of stories is much better.
#2
theonlyjett
Dec 06, 2007 21:00:50 Yeah, I'm not entirely thrilled with the whole "one setting a year" deal. I'm not a big fan of FR or Eberron. We already know that FR will be done this coming year. And I would assume if they're already talking about Ebberron, that it'll be the setting for 2009. Then there's Dragonlance and Greyhawk. Bleh. The biggest disapointment here for me is that I'll probably have to wait more than 4 years to see anything new for me. At this point, they should really consider letting 3rd parties work on Council of Wyrms, Darksun, Mystara, Red Steel, Birthright, Ravenloft, and Planescape, or else we'll never see any of them before 4.5, when they'll rerelease FR and Eberron.
#3
Alex_
Dec 06, 2007 23:11:59 I don't think we're going to be seeing much support for settings like Darksun or Dragonlance: settings where they go in and outright remove or greatly discourage the use of races, classes, weapons, and other material in the PHB, DMG, and MM.

Eberron and Forgotten Realms are both settings that make an effort to be inclusive, and accommodate WOTC published material. That way, when Complete Divine comes out, it's more easily adapted to all WOTC campaign settings. A lot of people think Eberron is this totally off the wall and contrary setting, but it really is largely compatible with material in the core books.

Moreso than stuff like Dragonlance, even though Dragonlance is obviously more "traditional" high fantasy.
#4
the_ubbergeek
Dec 08, 2007 16:35:06 I bet ten that there WILL be a NEW setting created for the edition...

Maybe the core, base sort-of-setting really expanded and codified, à la Mystara.
#5
Elemental_Elf
Dec 09, 2007 21:25:49
I bet ten that there WILL be a NEW setting created for the edition...

I'd put money on that bet.

IMO, people forget that WotC still owns 2 as of yet unpublished worlds they purchased during the Great Setting Search (or what ever it was called). Eberron won first place but there's still second and third to think about. IMO, WotC kept them back so they coudl create an entirely new setting designed around the principles and mechanics of 4E, much the same way Eberron was designed for 3.5.

I suspect we'll see one of the new settings before we see a new Dragonlance or Darksun or Greyhawk book. Now that doesn't preclude WotC from updating those settings via the D&DI, in fact Chris Perkins (I believe) already stated in an interview that this is how older settings would be updated and tested (to see if there is a large fan following and/or interest in seeing a new CS for the setting).
#6
dragmorian
Dec 10, 2007 23:30:45 I don't doubt that there WILL be something new EVENTUALLY. But I kinda believe there gonna open with Forgotten Realms, follow with Ebberron and it'll be summer of 2010 before I see an actual hard copy book for a new campaign setting. Ebberron came out in 2004 according to the publish date inside the book. (Didn't realize it had been that long) Which means I've already waited 3 years for a new campaign setting. I don't particularly want to wait another 3.

Hey I hope I'm wrong. It just seems like is gonna be forever before we see something original. I'd rather see two campaigns released per year and have those campaigns be new and fun and original...but no necessarily have the same degree of support as Forgotten Realms.

I'm not entirely against the books detailing various part of the campaign settings, but does anyone feel they really NEED to know more about Forgotten Realms beyond what's contained in its 320 page campaign book in order to have fun running a Forgotten Realms campaign?
#7
theonlyjett
Dec 11, 2007 16:39:24 I second everything you just said.
#8
the_ubbergeek
Dec 11, 2007 17:24:19 The FR and Eberron approach of the current edition was not bad - they shown a map, offered generals things, and only gave more developpement at a few places usefull as starting places.... Or so I remember.
#9
wvrenwulf
Dec 11, 2007 17:36:43 I like the Realms. Hate Ebberon. But for new settings....
Fantasy: Record of Lodoss War would rock. Terry Brooks Shannara would be cool. And if you've ever read Phillip Jose Farmer's The Dungeon...that would rock. That's time travel, dimesion warping, with sci-fi, fantasy, modern, and history all in one. Stephan Kings Dark Tower would be differant. Otherwise, I'd like a Sci-Fi setting like Gamma World brought back. I know a differant company has it, but wishful thoughts...
Ever see The Twelve Kingdoms anime? That is a very unigue setting with an Asian theme. Simular but differant to oriental adventures.
#10
the_ubbergeek
Dec 11, 2007 17:55:09 As far as PC crossovering go, the world of Elder Scrolls could be a good one - it's surprisingly developped and deep, I am told. And yet close to D&D mores.
#11
theonlyjett
Dec 11, 2007 19:32:10 I think we'ld all like to see quite a few settings that already exist (at least in fiction somewhere if not in an actual campaign setting), but I'ld really like to see some new ideas.

I want to see the runners up of the campaign setting contest that spawned eberron. In a few years, they should run another contest.

Dragmorian is right that they should give us 2 settings a year. It's not like FR isn't going to get a healty majority of the support of DDI.
#12
Elemental_Elf
Dec 12, 2007 21:13:06 I don't see why WotC couldn't release a "Tome of Worlds" as a compilation book updating 2 older settings and giving us 1 new one, per year. The book could be 285 Pages long, divided into 3, giving each setting 95 pages. WotC could release 1 of these books each year, and promise the fans that each setting will receive 1 (or more) column(s) on the D&DI per month for the rest of that year.

That would make a lot of fans happy and it would probably sell reasonably well.
#13
nonethewiser
Dec 14, 2007 17:50:21 I've been running Dungeon Crawl Classics by Goodman Games for the past four adventures. DCC#35: Gazetteer of the Known Realms is a self contained campaign world with 3 large maps, a DM's guide, the Gazetteer and a couple of start-up adventure modules: http://www.goodman-games.com/5034preview.php

The Goodman Games' campaign setting is called the "World of Aereth" and it's almost as if it's ready-made for a "Points of Light" type campaign: A sparsely populated world with isolated fiefdoms and cultures still largely unaware of one another. Mighty empires that once spanned the globe have either broken down into squabbling factions or sunken into obscurity altogether. The writers and designers of this world understand full well the virtue of leaving blanks on the page to be filled in later. My players are wary of FG and Ebberon, but they've given this series high praise for the four modules we've played thus far (DCC#28,36,23, currently running #19). http://www.goodman-games.com/adventurefinder.php

I picked up a boxed set which ties a bunch of DCC modules together to form one long story arc called Saga of the Dragon Cult ( http://www.goodman-games.com/5200preview.php ) which offers a more detailed look at the kingdoms of Kalia and Thire which I intend to use as a testing ground for 4.0 when it comes out. A someone who just started DMing earlier this year, I plan on having a nice long stay in Aereth for a while! ;)
#14
elondir
Dec 20, 2007 10:32:03 IIRC, when the 4e web page launched, there was a sidebar in one of the screenshots that listed several campaigns. Greyhawk was not listed, but one unknown campaign was. Does anybody remember the name?
#15
mdock2003
Dec 21, 2007 22:43:13
I don't see why WotC couldn't release a "Tome of Worlds" as a compilation book updating 2 older settings and giving us 1 new one, per year. The book could be 285 Pages long, divided into 3, giving each setting 95 pages. WotC could release 1 of these books each year, and promise the fans that each setting will receive 1 (or more) column(s) on the D&DI per month for the rest of that year.

That would make a lot of fans happy and it would probably sell reasonably well.

that is a great idea. I could support something like that, plus it would make subscribing to D&DI worth it.
#16
elondir
Dec 28, 2007 10:36:37 Great idea, but I would argue though that 285 pages is a little short. Each setting should get either a 128 page gazetteer or a 96 page gazetteer with 32 pages of crunch (3 new races and 1 new base class). The whole thing should be in tiny print with a 3-column layout, with poster sized world maps using equirectangular, Mollweide or Mercator projections for the globe and oblique azimuthal or cylindrical for continents. It would also be cool if they included a CD in the book with a 3D globe program like the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas had. And Mystara's VRML viewer out on the net is pretty cool and done, so they could include that.

Dark Sun would require a single huge tome devoted entirely to it, because it is so drastically different from "normal" D&D.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dragmorian Dec 06, 2007 17:11:29	I'll take just about anything as long as it ISN'T just one or two campaigns supported to death. In 2nd edition, I could play...hmmm...let see: Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Council of Wyrms, Darksun, Mystara, Red Steel, Birthright, Ravenloft, Planescape and I'm sure there's tons I'm forgetting. All from official Dungeons and Dragons books and many of which were brand new in 2nd ed. In 3.0 and 3.5 if I want to play a campaign setting from Wizards of the Coast contained in an actual Campaign Book I can play...hmmm...let see: Forgotten Realms and Ebberron (Which I'm sorry...feels like Forgotten Realms with a dash of magical technology thrown in.) And I think maybe they made a book for Dragonlance? But hey, at least I can buy a source book for just about every minor culture or large grove of trees in the Forgotten Realms! I'm all for campaign worlds being supported by continuing books but not at the cost of ever seeing something new. I really really don't want the only thing available in the first year or two of 4e to be Forgotten Realms and Ebberron. I've played those. A lot! And Wizards just released 3.5 books for those what like a year ago? Two? I really hope we get not only updated 4e version of some of those 2nd ed campaigns but also lots of new and interesting worlds to play in. And preferably worlds that come with some rules that really break the standard flavor of D&D. I liked that in 2nd ed Darksun gave you psionic wild talents, strange new races and every standard race reimagined, Birthright gave you rules for running a country and mysterious blood powers. Red Steel had a strange dust over everything that both helped and hurt. Council of Wyrms let you play a dragon. In 3e the Forgotten Realms gave us...umm...regional feats? And Ebberron gave a couple of interesting new races and ummm...dragon mark feats? That were only appropriate for specific character ideas. New campaigns are what make me excited to play D&D. They give me new stories to tell in new ways with characters I just COULDN'T have in the standard D&D western Europe during the middle ages with lot of magic world. A new edition of rules is fine, but a new edition of stories is much better.
#2 theonlyjett Dec 06, 2007 21:00:50	Yeah, I'm not entirely thrilled with the whole "one setting a year" deal. I'm not a big fan of FR or Eberron. We already know that FR will be done this coming year. And I would assume if they're already talking about Ebberron, that it'll be the setting for 2009. Then there's Dragonlance and Greyhawk. Bleh. The biggest disapointment here for me is that I'll probably have to wait more than 4 years to see anything new for me. At this point, they should really consider letting 3rd parties work on Council of Wyrms, Darksun, Mystara, Red Steel, Birthright, Ravenloft, and Planescape, or else we'll never see any of them before 4.5, when they'll rerelease FR and Eberron.
#3 Alex_ Dec 06, 2007 23:11:59	I don't think we're going to be seeing much support for settings like Darksun or Dragonlance: settings where they go in and outright remove or greatly discourage the use of races, classes, weapons, and other material in the PHB, DMG, and MM. Eberron and Forgotten Realms are both settings that make an effort to be inclusive, and accommodate WOTC published material. That way, when Complete Divine comes out, it's more easily adapted to all WOTC campaign settings. A lot of people think Eberron is this totally off the wall and contrary setting, but it really is largely compatible with material in the core books. Moreso than stuff like Dragonlance, even though Dragonlance is obviously more "traditional" high fantasy.
#4 the_ubbergeek Dec 08, 2007 16:35:06	I bet ten that there WILL be a NEW setting created for the edition... Maybe the core, base sort-of-setting really expanded and codified, à la Mystara.
#5 Elemental_Elf Dec 09, 2007 21:25:49	I bet ten that there WILL be a NEW setting created for the edition... I'd put money on that bet. IMO, people forget that WotC still owns 2 as of yet unpublished worlds they purchased during the Great Setting Search (or what ever it was called). Eberron won first place but there's still second and third to think about. IMO, WotC kept them back so they coudl create an entirely new setting designed around the principles and mechanics of 4E, much the same way Eberron was designed for 3.5. I suspect we'll see one of the new settings before we see a new Dragonlance or Darksun or Greyhawk book. Now that doesn't preclude WotC from updating those settings via the D&DI, in fact Chris Perkins (I believe) already stated in an interview that this is how older settings would be updated and tested (to see if there is a large fan following and/or interest in seeing a new CS for the setting).
#6 dragmorian Dec 10, 2007 23:30:45	I don't doubt that there WILL be something new EVENTUALLY. But I kinda believe there gonna open with Forgotten Realms, follow with Ebberron and it'll be summer of 2010 before I see an actual hard copy book for a new campaign setting. Ebberron came out in 2004 according to the publish date inside the book. (Didn't realize it had been that long) Which means I've already waited 3 years for a new campaign setting. I don't particularly want to wait another 3. Hey I hope I'm wrong. It just seems like is gonna be forever before we see something original. I'd rather see two campaigns released per year and have those campaigns be new and fun and original...but no necessarily have the same degree of support as Forgotten Realms. I'm not entirely against the books detailing various part of the campaign settings, but does anyone feel they really NEED to know more about Forgotten Realms beyond what's contained in its 320 page campaign book in order to have fun running a Forgotten Realms campaign?
#7 theonlyjett Dec 11, 2007 16:39:24	I second everything you just said.
#8 the_ubbergeek Dec 11, 2007 17:24:19	The FR and Eberron approach of the current edition was not bad - they shown a map, offered generals things, and only gave more developpement at a few places usefull as starting places.... Or so I remember.
#9 wvrenwulf Dec 11, 2007 17:36:43	I like the Realms. Hate Ebberon. But for new settings.... Fantasy: Record of Lodoss War would rock. Terry Brooks Shannara would be cool. And if you've ever read Phillip Jose Farmer's The Dungeon...that would rock. That's time travel, dimesion warping, with sci-fi, fantasy, modern, and history all in one. Stephan Kings Dark Tower would be differant. Otherwise, I'd like a Sci-Fi setting like Gamma World brought back. I know a differant company has it, but wishful thoughts... Ever see The Twelve Kingdoms anime? That is a very unigue setting with an Asian theme. Simular but differant to oriental adventures.
#10 the_ubbergeek Dec 11, 2007 17:55:09	As far as PC crossovering go, the world of Elder Scrolls could be a good one - it's surprisingly developped and deep, I am told. And yet close to D&D mores.
#11 theonlyjett Dec 11, 2007 19:32:10	I think we'ld all like to see quite a few settings that already exist (at least in fiction somewhere if not in an actual campaign setting), but I'ld really like to see some new ideas. I want to see the runners up of the campaign setting contest that spawned eberron. In a few years, they should run another contest. Dragmorian is right that they should give us 2 settings a year. It's not like FR isn't going to get a healty majority of the support of DDI.
#12 Elemental_Elf Dec 12, 2007 21:13:06	I don't see why WotC couldn't release a "Tome of Worlds" as a compilation book updating 2 older settings and giving us 1 new one, per year. The book could be 285 Pages long, divided into 3, giving each setting 95 pages. WotC could release 1 of these books each year, and promise the fans that each setting will receive 1 (or more) column(s) on the D&DI per month for the rest of that year. That would make a lot of fans happy and it would probably sell reasonably well.
#13 nonethewiser Dec 14, 2007 17:50:21	I've been running Dungeon Crawl Classics by Goodman Games for the past four adventures. DCC#35: Gazetteer of the Known Realms is a self contained campaign world with 3 large maps, a DM's guide, the Gazetteer and a couple of start-up adventure modules: http://www.goodman-games.com/5034preview.php The Goodman Games' campaign setting is called the "World of Aereth" and it's almost as if it's ready-made for a "Points of Light" type campaign: A sparsely populated world with isolated fiefdoms and cultures still largely unaware of one another. Mighty empires that once spanned the globe have either broken down into squabbling factions or sunken into obscurity altogether. The writers and designers of this world understand full well the virtue of leaving blanks on the page to be filled in later. My players are wary of FG and Ebberon, but they've given this series high praise for the four modules we've played thus far (DCC#28,36,23, currently running #19). http://www.goodman-games.com/adventurefinder.php I picked up a boxed set which ties a bunch of DCC modules together to form one long story arc called Saga of the Dragon Cult ( http://www.goodman-games.com/5200preview.php ) which offers a more detailed look at the kingdoms of Kalia and Thire which I intend to use as a testing ground for 4.0 when it comes out. A someone who just started DMing earlier this year, I plan on having a nice long stay in Aereth for a while! ;)
#14 elondir Dec 20, 2007 10:32:03	IIRC, when the 4e web page launched, there was a sidebar in one of the screenshots that listed several campaigns. Greyhawk was not listed, but one unknown campaign was. Does anybody remember the name?
#15 mdock2003 Dec 21, 2007 22:43:13	I don't see why WotC couldn't release a "Tome of Worlds" as a compilation book updating 2 older settings and giving us 1 new one, per year. The book could be 285 Pages long, divided into 3, giving each setting 95 pages. WotC could release 1 of these books each year, and promise the fans that each setting will receive 1 (or more) column(s) on the D&DI per month for the rest of that year. That would make a lot of fans happy and it would probably sell reasonably well. that is a great idea. I could support something like that, plus it would make subscribing to D&DI worth it.
#16 elondir Dec 28, 2007 10:36:37	Great idea, but I would argue though that 285 pages is a little short. Each setting should get either a 128 page gazetteer or a 96 page gazetteer with 32 pages of crunch (3 new races and 1 new base class). The whole thing should be in tiny print with a 3-column layout, with poster sized world maps using equirectangular, Mollweide or Mercator projections for the globe and oblique azimuthal or cylindrical for continents. It would also be cool if they included a CD in the book with a 3D globe program like the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas had. And Mystara's VRML viewer out on the net is pretty cool and done, so they could include that. Dark Sun would require a single huge tome devoted entirely to it, because it is so drastically different from "normal" D&D.