I’d like to personally thanks everyone you worked on the project, as your help, however great or small, was much appreciated.
Please submit playtesting feedback to templarate at lists.athas.org
:P
Heheh, I suggest printing the monster and reading through it in front of your fireplace on a long, cold winter night. Cup of steaming hot coco to boot. Worked for me! Enjoy, everyone! :D
Aaah. That's nice. Well done peoples!
So do errors and typo's go here or under playtest feedback?
Put them here. For now, anyway. I'm working on a site redesign, one of the goals is to have entry forms for errata ... but it's not ready for primetime just yet.
Thanks athas.org!
Long life to Dark Sun!
Me and the team are looking forward for playtesting results and comments by the community.
Merry Christmas to all and good reading!
Anyway, typo: Page 6 Weapon List - you have 'Forearm Razor' in the list twice and your missing the 'Forearm Spear'.
I will post later with spelling and gramatical corrections. I must say that I am impressed at how well it was written, especially since English is not the native language of many contributors.
Put them here. For now, anyway. I'm working on a site redesign, one of the goals is to have entry forms for errata ... but it's not ready for primetime just yet.
Page 58, in the Weomre Bush/Jeipug Mite Sample Encounter section:
Characters are more likely to run into a dhev-sahr as a
solitary threat in the Crescent Forest.
I've checked the document, and I can't see another reference to a dhev-sahr anywhere else.
I've checked the document, and I can't see another reference to a dhev-sahr anywhere else.
It is from LSH, this is what you get when you reuse writing...
Cleansing Flame Weapon Special Ability, last paragraph
Moderate evocation; CL 17th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, cleansing flame; Price +5 bonus.
Where is the spell, cleansing flame, required to craft it to be found?
I checked the SRD and the DS rules from athas.org and was unable to locate it.
Jack
Pg 68:
Cleansing Flame Weapon Special Ability, last paragraph
Moderate evocation; CL 17th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, cleansing flame; Price +5 bonus.
Where is the spell, cleansing flame, required to craft it to be found?
I checked the SRD and the DS rules from athas.org and was unable to locate it.
Jack
Mmm, we should add an hyperlink to the document's location on athas.org's website. It contains a bunch of spells from old 2E material converted by Bruno and Fabricio, entertainers and general good fellows from the far south. Cleansing flame is a spell from Defilers and Preservers: The Wizards of Athas, if you recall.
Any recommendations or thoughts about AE, Jack?
Halflings, Kreen, Gith etc may put value on it for trade espicially if its live slaves.
Mmm, we should add an hyperlink to the document's location on athas.org's website. It contains a bunch of spells from old 2E material converted by Bruno and Fabricio, entertainers and general good fellows from the far south. Cleansing flame is a spell from Defilers and Preservers: The Wizards of Athas, if you recall.
Any recommendations or thoughts about AE, Jack?
Well obviously if other spells from non-standard sources are used, its important to call out their location.
My only other thought is that the Palm Braclet (and the psionic mask) are both very expensive, the players in my group were interested in them till they saw the cost and the time required to swap stones in them, both seem high to us, I would think both should likely be reduced (make the crystals the same sort of action as the swapping weapon/armour crystals from MiC perhaps?)
I'm sure some other thoughts occur to me, but I've really only skimmed over the document so far.
Jack
My first gaming feedback! /in tears :D
Bruno and Fabricio's spells were supposed, IIRC, to be integrated in DS3 r7. Jon?
The swap time for gems was based off of the same mechanic found in Magic of Faerun, a 3.0 release. You say MiC updates similar swap times for other magic items? Can you provide a reference, please? Since we did all our items in the old style, I never bought MiC.
Palm bracelets costing too much? Could be, you also need to consider they take a glove slot and provide the equivalent of a feat, sometimes two feats (for gems with +2 to DC), and the "feat" is not set but can be swapped for another one affecting some other school, descriptor, etc. Pretty flexible. Maybe not in combat situations, but between encounters for sure.
Snif.
My first gaming feedback! /in tears :D
Bruno and Fabricio's spells were supposed, IIRC, to be integrated in DS3 r7. Jon?
Heh, have no fear, I have plenty of opinions (of varying value I'm sure).
The swap time for gems was based off of the same mechanic found in Magic of Faerun, a 3.0 release. You say MiC updates similar swap times for other magic items? Can you provide a reference, please? Since we did all our items in the old style, I never bought MiC.
Not familiar with whatever item you're referencing there, but the augment crystals in the MiC (pg 221 for general rules on them) take a move action to attach or remove (so two Move actions to replace one)
Here is the preview that describes them.
Palm bracelets costing too much? Could be, you also need to consider they take a glove slot and provide the equivalent of a feat, sometimes two feats (for gems with +2 to DC), and the "feat" is not set but can be swapped for another one affecting some other school, descriptor, etc. Pretty flexible. Maybe not in combat situations, but between encounters for sure.
My gut impression of them (with no playtesting at all) is that they should be more in the niehborhood of 10k-15k, as they take a slot, and grant a limited benefit, compare to the Orange Ioun stone, which is a generic +1 CL (not as good as the +1 (or higher) DC some of stones give you) but it is only 30k and slotless. I have trouble imagining a slotted item which provides am more limited (but ocassionally better) bonus being more costly.
I like the low cost of the stones, before I saw the cost of the braclet I thought they would be nice lower level items but the price puts them more along the lines of something an 18+ level character can afford, which is less good. So I would likely drop the bracelet/mask way down and potentially bump the better stones to about double (i.e. the ones which grant +2 bonuses).
Another option, is to make them slotless (particularly the mask which fights for space with a +int items and psicrowns) and put them in that a same 25k-30k range as the Ioun stone.
At the price as listed I figure they need to be slotless and hold more then one stone, but your mileage may vary. The wizards, psion, and cleric [yes the whole party are casters of one sort or another, grotesque no?] in my group (level 15-16) were unanimous in their opinion that they were too expensive, and fighting for useful slots (we use normal magic item 3.5 rules so at this level we have lots of them).
Just my rambling thoughts on the items in question
Jack
Edited to add: There are also some magic items (special holy symbols) in Complete Champion that give a +1 Cl to a specific school when used and they are 350gp each IIRC correctly, so there's a benchmark of sorts (for divine casters at least).
The pricing philosophy of wotC regarding items has changed with the advent of the MiC - they are now often priced more in regards to their relative usefullness than on straight formulas, like in 3.0, or even in most of 3.5 products.
The last items that were introduced to the AE, while done in the old writing style for the items, were priced accordingly to the new philosophy. But unfortunatly, this represent perhaps only 2-3% of all the items. (the MiC came out only a little ago while most of the items were done before that).
All playtesting regarding the actula use of the item, and their pricing regarding their usefullness is therefore very appreciated. You can be sure they'll be kept in mind when the items value is analyzed further. I'm sure other items will turn out so they can be priced less.
Jack, your group uses ioun stones on Athas? Is it only in the wilderness, with no humanoids present? Ioun stones on Athas, to me, scream of "Oh, this object orbiting around me attracted your attention, did it? Why, yes, I'm a wizard, but I fail to /death" :D
I'll consider all of this, the price drop and move actions to swap. Maybe also about raising the DCs.
I actually think the items power level, in and of itself, is good for what they do. I'd personally prefer a price drop/usage alteration rather then a straight power increase.
Jack, your group uses ioun stones on Athas? Is it only in the wilderness, with no humanoids present? Ioun stones on Athas, to me, scream of "Oh, this object orbiting around me attracted your attention, did it? Why, yes, I'm a wizard, but I fail to /death" :D
Nah, none of us have those, I was just benchmarking from the SRD. Personally I doubt Ioun Stones exist on Athas, or if the do they're just earings or hairties or somesuch.
Jack
P.S. personally I tihnk the description of Ioun Stones is freaking stupid anyway
I'm looking forward to continually seeing new releases and hopefully 4th ed. won't tear too much of the older work apart (one of these days I will hunt down a good article on all the nuts and bolts of the new edition).
PS: Having avoided encounters with multiple giants, poison attempts, a raiding party which ended with two unconscious characters and a blind wizard, the group was finally brought down by four feylaars and a renegade ranger. The few survivors are left behind in the jungle with no gear. Great first session in other words!
I guess you'll start seeing more of me again in here.
Congratulations guys on another great release. I have only had a chance to look at it briefly so far, but look forward to reading the entire thing soon.
I'm looking forward to seeing more comments from you Band2, and everyone else by the way.
:fight!: 
Bring on the feedback and playtesting on the current AE, though, as the 4E version - or whatever will be done with items for DS4 - will be a year or so away! If there's anything wrong or overlooked with the current items, we need to know it soon!I'm looking forward to seeing more comments from you Band2, and everyone else by the way.
Ok, once I get through more of it, I will have some feedback. And I am going to try giving "playtesting" a whole new meaning.
Penn - don´t make promises you don´t know if you can keep. No deadlines! :P
And what promise did I make, Jon?
I mentionned when 4E will come out, and that I'll be working on it with Meth.
Will some of the items be converted to 4E? Of course they will be. That's not a promess, it's just logical.
Am I missing something, here?
And what promise did I make, Jon?
I think Jon is referring to this:
(...) as the 4E version - or whatever will be done with items for DS4 - will be a year or so away! (emphasis mine)
While it is true that we'll try to convert as much as we can of the AE, some things will probably have to wait until the DS4 rules are at least well under way (e.g. defiling mechanics, heroic and paragon class features, etc.). It won't stop us from starting though. The old Equipment Templarate is already watching for all mentions about 4e equipments and items and discussing possibilities so we are ready when the WotC core books/ 4e SRD comes out.
Am I really this difficult to be understood? ;)
I didn't mean to say (sorry if I mistakingly gave that impression) that DS4 would be a year or so from now, but that 4E will take about that long, or longer, to produce all the basics and possibly psionics as well. Now somewhere during that time, 6 months before, or 6 months later, or some other period of time, and considering the extent of what's contained in the OGL at that time and if the license is still in our hands bla bla bla - we'll start the work on DS4.
Now, hopefully, the "date" has been reset to nebulous and becomes totally unreliable. Yay! :D
First a note on some "playtesting" I did.
With the holiday season recently past, there were a lot of empty wrapping paper rolls lying around at my house as well as my mothers. They inspired me to try to craft some of these new weapons out of the empty rolls and see how they performed in battle against my 6 year old nephew. I did not try all of the weapons, either do to time or just difficulty trying to construct it out of cardboard and tape. So any comments from this "battletesting" I included under the weapon.
:fight!:
Page 5
Weapons
I don’t like that all the new weapons do not have penalties for inferior material. Some of the weapons, like the flying dagger, are similar to normal weapons. I cannot see what the difference would be that would eliminate the penalties for inferior material. However, I realize this was already established in the DS 3 rules, so I guess that I understand why it is here.
I am not sure there is a simple fix I would like, but how about if inferior material penalties were eliminated for only the new exotic weapons? That limits it to a certain recognizable group and also reflects the unique design of the weapons that allow them to be make of inferior material without penalties.
Ahguda Dok
“Ahguda are made from the forelimb of a dune reaper…”.
The forelimbs of a dune reaper are giant blades. Why would you make a club out of it? How about making it the rear limbs of a dagorran or other beast?
Page 7
Bard’s Comb
The sentence “Worn as a hair holder…”
Is awkward.
How about “Used to hold elaborate hair styles in place…”
Page 8
Betnebbi
Some battle testing feedback. The betnebbi seems too hard to grapple with. It was very difficult to catch an opponent in the hooks. This may be the poor quality of what I was working with, or may be I am just not proficient in the weapon?
I would think of maybe making the weapon an exotic weapon. As for the comment about using the fork to grab the neck of an opponent, there are other places that are easier to grab, like an arm. I would image that a leg would be easy too, but the height difference between me and my opponent made this too difficult for me to do.
Bragnogeen
“Its 5 to 6 ft. length, for a human-sized version, would normally make the weapon an unwieldy one, but its unique properties make it behave differently. “
I am unclear as to what the unique properties are that make it behave differently. The only description I noted was that it has an obsidian edge. Why is it so light? Is it make of a particular wood, the light bone of a creature?
Page 10
Forearm spear :fight!:
Some battle testing feedback. I did not find this weapon very effective. It was very ungainly and difficult to aim effectively. To attack, is basically punching, but it was hard to hit with something that extended 2 feet past the end of my arm. I found it much easier to slice with it rather than punch or pierce with it. But since it is a spear and not a blade (like the forearm razor) that really does not work to inflict damage. All the negatives of a spear and none of the benefits.
Ganji song
Is it just a scythe with holes that whistle? Why is that different from a normal scythe?
Page 11
Hamanu’s Staff
Some battle testing feedback. I enjoyed fighting with this one, but I had a difficult time keeping my hands in the two “safe” areas without the spikes. If it had been real, my hands would have been cut to ribbons.
Also the description says that a creature can wield a Hamanu’s staff in one hand (but it is not considered a double weapon). But I do not think this is possible. Unless the Hamanu’s staff is specially constructed for one big hand instead of two smaller hands the creature is going to cut his hand apart.
Hawk Hatchet
The description of the hawk hatchet needs to state why you gain the bonus to disarm.
Page 12
Mandible sword
The description of the mandible sword needs to state why you gain the bonus to disarm.
Rha’kut arrow
The description of this arrow could use some work.
“The pain of a single sa'rikka incapacitates most victims; few can stand more than four or five.”
That is a strange statement, jumping from 1 to 4 or 5. It seems few can stand only 1. 4 or 5 seems to be overkill for most people.
Next the description mentions the elves use the arrows to “terrify and incapacitate as much as it is to kill.” But the sa’rikka beetles do not seem to incapacitate the victim, they kill the victim with Con drain. After reading about the arrow, I expected the beetle to have some sort of incapacitating attack, but a deadly attack.
Page 13
Shulkak
Would primitive societies have access to giant hair rope? Or would they have to make rope from something else?
“A failed check means the sholkak lands 1d4 squares away in a random direction.”
This sentence is out of place as you are talking about Reflex saves the sentence before and after it. Probably belongs as the second to last sentence in the paragraph.
Page 14
silt sap
I do not like it.
While I like the concept of the silt sap, I do not think that it is realistic. How could the bag contain enough silt for 10 attacks that blankets a 5 ft area each and still have enough power behind it not to feel like you are being hit with a giant pillow. Less silt and more rocks. I think the number of silt attacks should be reduced to around 2-3.
Page 15
Artist’s armor
I do not like the double roll for the arcane spell failure. It just means another die roll to slow down combat. Why not just reduce the base arcane spell failure in half?
Gladiator’s armors
I like the gladiator's armor. But the description of the armor sounds like it was designed by someone who wants to ensure a gladiator’s protection. Not someone who wants to see a death match. The armor should be described as flashy and not functional. Leaving the chest bare to show off massive muscles, or some equivalent of chain mail bikinis for the women. Legs should have little covering to show as much leg as possible. Only cover certain critical areas like neck, groin, and thighs.
Long shield
It seems that the arcane failure should be higher if it takes 2 hands to wield this shield. Maybe 30-35%
Page 16
The Tyrian armors
There is a statement that the armor is given to soldiers when Tyr is engaged in war. These armors cost hundreds of gold pieces. Tyr could not afford to have too many of these suits. Maybe a handful or so, but not enough to equip an armor. How about rephrasing to say it is given to officers or elite forces in the Tyr war.
Page 17
Piecemeal armor qualities
The first bullet point says that a person wearing no more than 2 pieces of limb armor is considered in no armor. How about as long as not 2 pieces of heavy limb armor. The arms for full plate are still heavy. That may be added a level of complexity that is not needed. Just a thought.
Table 1-3
A Breastplate includes leg armor? I thought it was just a breastplate.
Currency
The lead bead
I still do not like the lead bead as part of currency. Even with the explanation as to why the lead is used in beads instead of other more useful items.
I still cannot see it being worth less than ceramic, but it is considered worth less than a ceramic bit.
Page 20
Some of the coin names are a little strange. I know they came from the magazine article, so cannot be changed. But is anyone really going to call their money the dictator or the quiver?
I think for my campaign purposes I may consider these as more like nicknames.
22
Table 2-3
Salt should be more expensive. According to table 2-3 it is only 2 bits, but table 2-9 has it for 2 ceramics? I realize table 2-3 is wholesale items, but that is a big mark up. Maybe table 2-3 should be changed to 1 ceramic?
Seems to me that gold and iron would be more closely priced. Not gold being worth 50 times more than iron. Maybe iron should be priced similar to silver at 500 ceramics per pound?
Page 23
The footnotes on the tables are a little confusing. Because each table starts over using footnote 1 it leads to a little confusion. If you are reading table 2-7 and come to cactus, red you see a mark for footnote 1. (which for table 2-7 appears near the top of the next column). However almost directly across in the next column is table 2-9 which also has a footnote 1. It is very easy to mistake the explanation for footnote 1 on table 2-9 to be related to table 2-7. Instead of using 1 each time, could we number the footnotes throughout all of the food tables from page 22 to page 24 1 through 4.
24
The tables on page 22 start with listing meats, but the descriptions start with sweets.
Boneclaw poison
The secondary damage is listed as 1d10 Con. But is only 1d6 Con in Terrors of Athas.
Page 25
Some things to consider that would be cool. Include notes on how often can a kank produces a globule of honey. And an erdlu an egg.
Page 26
Betel nuts are in see FFN. Probably should be removed from here, or corrected to correspond with their description in FFN.
Cabra
Here is a missing description for the cabra from Cinnibar Shadows that Meth noted.
“They are husky, dun-colored spheres, with a bright red inside.”
Not sure why it was left out but it adds a little more to the description.
Page 31
"Roaming the northern Tablelands in herds, driks cannot reproduce in captivity and must be captured from the wild."
This sentence is confusing. Perhaps separate it into two sentences.
“Herds of driks roam the northern Tablelands. Driks cannot reproduce in captivity and must be captured from the wild.”
Last sentence of the same paragraph should also be separated into two sentences, after “become war machines” and before “albeit a few”
band2 rules! :D
Despite popular misconception band2 is not brun.02 :P
Onto more comments
Page 31
Driks drag siege towers at exceptional speed? I guess that is relative. It may seem like it is exceptional speed for a siege tower.
Page 32
Sample encounter
I do not like the mention of “the templar faction”. The templars of Raam have not been presented as a unified group but a fractions mob of individuals scheming for their own end. To call them a faction implies that they are allies with each other rather than rivals. Just changing the statement to read “a templar faction” would indicate one of many possible templars that the soldiers could be loyal to.
Ecology
“Since the death of Raam’s sorcerer-queen, factions within the army have sold a few specimens to powerful and rich individuals, not all of Raamin citizenship.”
This is a cool adventure hook.
Page 33
Remolding and Outfitting
The ramming prow says that driks cannot have one and carry catapults but it does not say how much room the ram takes up, to see what other remolding can be done.
Swivelling Platform
Does the swivelling platform take up more room than a normal ballista?
Wooden fortfication and resin fortification give the same bonus but are not the same price or weight. Why would you take wooden fortifications when it costs more and weighs more? Is it because resin fortification can only be taken when the drik is first outfited?
Throughout this section.
What is the plural?
ballistas or ballistae or ballista
Page 34
Sail Cart
For one of the quotes, how about adding “Bra’rrk , Aarakocra of Winter's Nest” to add a little more than that he is just an aarakocra.
37
Strategies and Tactics
Second and third paragraph.
“Both types of undead beetles need a crew of two: the animator and a commander. The rest are soldiers stationned inside the weapon’s ports and the upper deck.”
This parargaph is repeated in the next paragraph.
37
Typical Physical Characteristics
Here the rezhatta war beetle is smaller, but in the stats it appears to be the bigger one. Seems like they are flipped.
Same with how many the beetles can carrry.
38
Slivered Carapace
What are silex shards?
Drone swarm
How does the watroach release the swarm? From its mouth, from its back side, a hole on top of its back? It does not say, but I would assume the mouth.
All the points you raised (and will raise ;) ) are and will be taken into consideration for the next iteration of the document.
I'm eager to see your comments for the rest of Chapter 2 and then the Items of Power Chapter.
Keep up the good work, it is much appreciated
Page 15
Artist’s armor
I do not like the double roll for the arcane spell failure. It just means another die roll to slow down combat. Why not just reduce the base arcane spell failure in half?
It's a d20 game. Every percent number give in this game is dividable by 5, so you could make the check with a d20. In addition, you can't roll 2.5%, not even with a d%.
Gladiator’s armors
I like the gladiator's armor. But the description of the armor sounds like it was designed by someone who wants to ensure a gladiator’s protection. Not someone who wants to see a death match. The armor should be described as flashy and not functional. Leaving the chest bare to show off massive muscles, or some equivalent of chain mail bikinis for the women. Legs should have little covering to show as much leg as possible. Only cover certain critical areas like neck, groin, and thighs.
The gladiator's armors are design to balance the game. If you don't give gladiator's armors to protect them, they won't last long against big creature's. So gladiator's armors are for game balance. There are also 3 type of armor, so you could choose, wether you want be barly protected, medium protected or strongly protected. It wouldn't have made any sense if you give them just small amror parts, but provide them with high AC. That's why there are so many armor parts. But it is not stated how big these parts are, so you could choose for yourself how they look like.
Page 16
The Tyrian armors
There is a statement that the armor is given to soldiers when Tyr is engaged in war. These armors cost hundreds of gold pieces. Tyr could not afford to have too many of these suits. Maybe a handful or so, but not enough to equip an armor. How about rephrasing to say it is given to officers or elite forces in the Tyr war.
IRRC Tyr has many metal weapons in their treasure chamber. Enough to give most of their soldiers a metal weapon when engaged to war (I think it was even stated, that that there are enough metal weapons to give every soldier a metal weapon). I thought, that if there are enough metal weapons for their soldiers, there could be small armor parts too.
Table 1-3
A Breastplate includes leg armor? I thought it was just a breastplate.
Breastplate: A breastplate covers your front and your back. It comes with a helmet and greaves (plates to cover your lower legs). A light suit or skirt of studded leather beneath the breastplate protects your limbs without restricting movement much.
It's a d20 game. Every percent number give in this game is dividable by 5, so you could make the check with a d20. In addition, you can't roll 2.5%, not even with a d%.
You sure? Check out the reincarnation table, or the magic weapon tables for instance. Couldn't you just divide in half and round up the result instead?
It's a d20 game. Every percent number give in this game is dividable by 5, so you could make the check with a d20. In addition, you can't roll 2.5%, not even with a d%..
Yeah, 3 edition has looks of principles like that which occassionally leads to contradictions between the principles. Just use which every way you find easiest. And yeah, you would have to change it to 2 or 3 % if you rolled percentage dies.
The gladiator's armors are design to balance the game. If you don't give gladiator's armors to protect them, they won't last long against big creature's. So gladiator's armors are for game balance. There are also 3 type of armor, so you could choose, wether you want be barly protected, medium protected or strongly protected. It wouldn't have made any sense if you give them just small amror parts, but provide them with high AC. That's why there are so many armor parts. But it is not stated how big these parts are, so you could choose for yourself how they look like..
It is not the game mechanics, just the description. If something is called gladiator armor, I think of many gladiator movies in which the gladiators wear armor that is more flash than substance. I am just trying to get the description to match the image that the name conjures up.
IRRC Tyr has many metal weapons in their treasure chamber. Enough to give most of their soldiers a metal weapon when engaged to war (I think it was even stated, that that there are enough metal weapons to give every soldier a metal weapon). I thought, that if there are enough metal weapons for their soldiers, there could be small armor parts too.
I seem to recall that quote too about the metal weapons, but thought it says that Tyr had enough metal weapons that it could give one to every soldier not that it does give one to every soldier.
Any front line soldier given a fortune in metal with a weapon and armor would rightly run off at the first opportunity. It represents more money than they will every see in more than a life time. Tyr under Kalak would never give such low line soldiers such an opportunity, but maybe new Tyr is more "democratic" about supplying the armor.
That is why I was suggesting changing the comment to give the armor to more trusted troops like officers.
At the same time, if Tyr has does use metal arms and armor it has doubled its defense costs by passing up the fortune it could get by selling that iron.
templar outfit – I do not like it. Why do templars get a bonus for putting on their own clothes? It is the templar that has the ability not the clothes. Any authority the clothes get is from the templar not the other way around.
Page 44- 45
Book of poison
I do not like that it is a book. Writing is illegal, few people have books. Also bards are tricky - they have to be. Why but it in a book format? Why not put the sypher onto something less conspicuous. Anyone seeing the book would be suspicious. How about a musical instrument, say a flute that has pattern of notches and groves that are a cipher that the bards know that works like braille – you read it by running your figures over it. The bards claim the cipher is how they record music notes in a culture without writing.
Remote viewing kit
Why if someone else helps does it add 10 more minutes to the time to prepare it? Should be the same time but a bigger area prepared. 1 person takes 10 minutes to make a 5 foot square. 2 persons should take 10 minutes to make a 2 5foot squares, not 20 minutes.
Page 46
Balican Sting
The poison is affective against only beasthead, crag, desert, and plains giants. That is all giants on Athas right? Why not just say that.
Kuzza powder
Only blinds for 1 round? Seems like it would be for longer if you take a direct hit of pepper spray. 1d4 rounds maybe?
Ranike sap
Insects must make a save each round for one minute? But the smoke burns for 1 hour? Do they become immune to it after a minute? Or do they have to make the save each round and for a minute after they leave the smoke?
Splash-globe the ranike sap smoke has the same comment about each round for a minute, but this time the smoke only lasts one minute.
Also, it says the Gulgs known about ranike sap but I think the tree is in the Ringing Mountains. I'll have to double check that.
47
Aviarag Horn
Aviarag’s are powerful users of the way. Why does their horn affect spells?
Royal Justice Token
The royal justic token does not seem very useful unless it also affects the quicken spell cast throught wrath of the sorcerer-king as well. Does it?
48
Dagorran crystal is not consumed for psionics but is for magic? Is that intentional? I can understand it being so, but just wanted to make sure it was intentional.
You sure? Check out the reincarnation table, or the magic weapon tables for instance. Couldn't you just divide in half and round up the result instead?
Point taken. When I made the write up, I wa looking at armors not other tables. I don't mind to change the check penalty to 2% or 3% percent, although I could see some other voices, that could claim, that armors don't have these numbers. However, if it's going to be changed, I won't complain.
It is not the game mechanics, just the description. If something is called gladiator armor, I think of many gladiator movies in which the gladiators wear armor that is more flash than substance. I am just trying to get the description to match the image that the name conjures up.
IMO the description and mechanics should match to each other. Besides, take a look at the gladiators of the movie gladiator:
It seems that at least they have some protection. ;)
I seem to recall that quote too about the metal weapons, but thought it says that Tyr had enough metal weapons that it could give one to every soldier not that it does give one to every soldier.
Any front line soldier given a fortune in metal with a weapon and armor would rightly run off at the first opportunity. It represents more money than they will every see in more than a life time. Tyr under Kalak would never give such low line soldiers such an opportunity, but maybe new Tyr is more "democratic" about supplying the armor.
That is why I was suggesting changing the comment to give the armor to more trusted troops like officers.
At the same time, if Tyr has does use metal arms and armor it has doubled its defense costs by passing up the fortune it could get by selling that iron.
Sounds reasonable. I could live with that. The whole idea was to provide armors made of mixed material. I was thinking about, who could create "mixed armors" with metal, and that's where Tyr came in to my mind.
At the same time, if Tyr has does use metal arms and armor it has doubled its defense costs by passing up the fortune it could get by selling that iron.
Thinking about the city no longer being protected by a scoccerer-king, it actually could make sense to increase the defense. However I will rest the case.
IMO the description and mechanics should match to each other. Besides, take a look at the gladiators of the movie gladiator:
It seems that at least they have some protection. ;)
True, but in that scene in the movie they were reinacting a historical battle, and so were dressed up like troups. Though Maximus throughout the movie is dressed in a functional looking breastplate. But look at his opponents throughout the movie. Lost of bare chests and shoulders. Some cover their stomachs and leave their chests bare, others do the opposite. They all seem to have ellaborate helmets from the boar helmet to the man wearing a bull's head to the former champion with a face plate shaped like a face.
And look at the female gladiators in the charriots in that battle scene. Though they are not in chainmail bikinis they are wearing armor that is shaped to emphasis their breasts. Shows ascetics over funtionallity.
Table 2-15 footnotes 2 and 3 seem to be mixed up.
Kank taint affects on creatures of the elemental type and drakesblood only affects kanks?
Page 51
bleached inix slumber
Why a knock out poison if you are going to ambush the enemies? If you can posion them why not kill them with a lethal poison?
Instead of ambushing how about saying capturing or arresting?
Braxat hide
It seems too harsh which spells can restore the vicitm. I would add heal and regenerate to the list. Maybe remove restoration and add greater restoration.
Page 52
Dragon beetle posion is listed as contact, but the description mentions “the area around a wound containing the poison”.
fael appetite
“This poison is used primarily by nobles at parties and feasts to eliminate rivals and rise through the ranks.”
Nobles do not have ranks. Templars do though.
What happens when the availablity of food is limited? Will the victim turn cannible if no more food is available as a fael? He is not gorging so his stomach would not burst and take 6d6 damage.
Page 54
Purple Grass Extract
“Anyone ingesting the plant, which tastes like a delicious dry wine”
The plant tastes like wine or the poison tastes like wine?
Silt serpent venom
“…poison a favorite of bards and assassins alike (…if you even think there’s a reason to differentiate the two). “
Is that an editing note in brackets?
Silt spider venom
“This is no easy task, obviously, and definitely worthy of praise…or ridicule, depending on your point of view. “
That is a bad joke. :P
Page 56
Bellaweed seems too cheap at only 2 bits. Maybe 2 Cp?
Page 59
Ecology
“Any being passing too near … will trigger an inevitable attack”
That is contradicted on page 58 under stratagies which says they will only attack when a creature damages the leaves.
Page 59
table 2-19
What is dwarven steel on Athas?
Page 61
Ka’aku
What is an elven knrisuckle-bone?
Page 61-62
Tear of Badna
The star of badna has magical powers that project from magic spells. Why would the tears enhance psionics as well as mind-affecting spells?
May be it should enhance abjuration spells and only spells.
Or is it just a feint that the tears are from the star any they are really not related?
Living crystal
“Armor made of living crystal is no different than metal armor …”
It has the same penalties for wearing it in heat?
Somewhere - either in the DMG or Sword & Fist - it gives the speed of siege towers. It's real slow. As long as weight limits are not exceded, a drik can run while pulling a siege tower. That's real fast, tactically so, I might add.
I do not like the mention of “the templar faction”.
IIRC I took that from the Revised Box Set. Templars have bended together to create a faction. Is it no so?
The ramming prow says that driks cannot have one and carry catapults but it does not say how much room the ram takes up, to see what other remolding can be done.
The ram doesn't take space per say, in game terms, so says the ram description. No catapults is a balancing concession. Games are full of it, whether it's realistic or not.
Does the swivelling platform take up more room than a normal ballista?
Doesn't take more or less space. No mention of such details refers the reader to default settings, thus the catapult's own space.
Wooden fortfication and resin fortification give the same bonus but are not the same price or weight. Why would you take wooden fortifications when it costs more and weighs more? Is it because resin fortification can only be taken when the drik is first outfited?
This is more for fluff than anything. The 2E drik source mentions Raamins have developped this unique resin technique. Here I imagined the technique was stolen through espionnage by the Nibenese and is now common place. It does require, though, that it be applied on growing driks, while wooden fortifications can be added to grown driks.
ballistas or ballistae or ballista
Bueller?
Typical Physical Characteristics
Here the rezhatta war beetle is smaller, but in the stats it appears to be the bigger one. Seems like they are flipped.
Same with how many the beetles can carrry.
Mmm...
I recall rezhatta are bigger but made for speed, and thus carry less empty spaces within. The other beetle type are smaller and slower, but better armored and are equipped with a bigger inner space.
Slivered Carapace
What are silex shards?
Oops, french for flint.
Drone swarm
How does the watroach release the swarm? From its mouth, from its back side, a hole on top of its back? It does not say, but I would assume the mouth.
Description of the improvement says they disgorge from holes drilled on the sides of the carapace, and those holes and the drone chamber take room so there can't be as much weapons' ports or carried soldiers. (IIRC. Hey, I'm doing this from memory.) Again this is a balancing concession.
[b]
I do not like the mention of “the templar faction”.
IIRC I took that from the Revised Box Set. Templars have bended together to create a faction. Is it no so?
Well what it says is:
"The main body of templars occupy one camp, centered in the templar quarter of the city. Various rogue templars command smaller parts of Raam, claiming from as little as one building to as many as several blocks as their personal domains. They defend these domains with troops that were once loyal to Abalach-Re but now follow their templar commanders."
After rereading that I can see your point, but when I first read it I did not take the first sentence to mean that they had forced a faction. Now I can see that it could mean that.
I seem to have always focused on the other sentences as to what the templars were up to, and considered that just because they occupied a party of the city did not mean that they were allied together in a faction, but continued to scheme and fight against each other.
Page 64
Items that do not exist
Decanter of endless water is not on the list of items that do not exist?
Page 65
Bag of holidng
Could you reference the chapter of Obsidian Oracle regarding the bag of holding? It could be helpful to find the description easier.
Table 3-2
Seems strange to have bane weapons for dragons and not avangions.
Page 66
Magic Items
“Arcane magic has been used for a variety of purposes since its development by Rajaat the First Sorcerer during the Green Age, as is the case of divine magic.”
This sentence seems to imply that Rajaat created divine magic as well.
Page 68
Baleful shriek is a good idea but gives itself away. Everyone can tell if you have magic if your weapon starts shrieking loudly everytime you fight. Maybe it is just for desert raiders.
Page 69
I do not like the rumbling as much as the shrieking.
Why isn’t silencing weapons more like silence the spell?
Page 70
The soul-crushing power seems too powerful. Only for high levels I guess.
Keening Staff
Is the keening staff a staff or a trident?
It is described as a +1 trident, but called a staff.
Serphent strike
What are elven rope tentacles and the needles that cover them?
Rings
The openning paragraph about rings – is that needed here, since it is in the DMG. What about talking about rings related to Dark Sun races, like thri-kreen and aarakocras. And if half-giants can wear rings that fit other races or not.
Page 71
Desiccating rod is very powerful. How about only 1d6+1 Con damage instead of 1d6+5?
Table 3-2
Seems strange to have bane weapons for dragons and not avangions.
I think it's because dragons are a creature type, while avangions are aberrations.
I think it's because dragons are a creature type, while avangions are aberrations.
Ok, I guess I need to read Legends of Athas so I will know these things.
That's what I keep saying! ;)
Yeah, yeah. It's on my list.
More comments for Chapter 3
Page 71
Elemental rods
The powers are a bonus to domain class skill, cast domain spells, and improved effects of domain spells. What are the benefits to a non cleric? Nothing? Then why say that anybody can use the abilities unrelated to spellcasting?
Guardianship
Some of the guardianship powers seems too powerful and would reduce a defiler to complete helplessness. What about a save throw to avoid or reduce the power.
Or instead of negating a spell of too a high a level, the spell was reduced in power - effective level in half or something. But stopping a high level defiler from using his most powerful spells seems too powerful an ability. (similar to preventing a fighter from using his highest attack roll)
Page 72
desert travel
“a wanderer’s staff is a straight and tall species of trees that grows in the Ringing Mountains.” The name of the tree is the wanderer’s staff?
Personally on Athas I do not like any ability to create element water. It reduces the impact of the setting on the game. What about a find water ability instead?
Trickster
The shadow tribe is a secret. Seems strange that they would have a legend about a magic item tied back to them.
Page 73
Amulet of arcane insight
Why is it elven? Or is it carved from the bones of elves?
Amulet of the undead dragon king
Why does Dregoth go through the trouble of creating a magic amulet for his dray that gives them powers they already have?
I could understand if he created a small number of these amulets to give to human allies but what good are they to the dray.
Page 74
Bead of agony
This is small but - What happens when no one else is left? Beetles die? Turn to stone? It just says they fight until there is no one left.
Page 75
brooch of obsidian shattering
Why is the command word elven and not magic?
80
inquisitional chest
“Once per day, upon strong utterance of the name of the sorcerer-monarch worshiped by the user…
I would suggest changing “worshiped” to “served by the user”. Not all city-states have templars that are worshipers.
82
Mark of olaon
I like this item, but could we extend the affect, so that the marked victim does not have to be in the defiler radius to be affected. So he could be a little further away but still not out of sight? I think it would be more dramatic, if the defiler was not too crowded by marked victims.
Mouthmask of breathing
“the wearer does not gain the ability to breathe in other types of liquid.”
Silt is not really a liquid. Should these read, “breathe in other types of substances such as water.” Or “breathe in liquids.”
83
sacred mask of the jaguar
I do not like the ability of the mask that makes the wearer’s attack bonus equal to his character level. This is a benefit for mutliclass characters and nothing for a single class fighter. It does not seem balanced. What if the wearer gains an attack bonus equal to his jaguar knight level? Or just a flat attack bonus of +4?
I do not understand the tagelmoust of the tormented. You wrap your face up in it, so you cannot see but would give off a fear effect. You can unwrap it to reveal not your face but the face of a krag to curse someone? How do you get your face back?
Page 90
Bite of the tembo
Strange name. “Bite” implies it is a piercing weapon but the weapon is blunt.
Page 91
I like the standards.
Page 92
blindfold of perception
You are blinded and deafened by wearing this right? So it is only for those you are already blind and or deaf?
Page 93
circlet of psyhic extraction
I do not like the vampiric name for the second one. It seems to me they both are vampiric in nature. How about lesser and greater for the two circlets?
Page 96
Gloves of War
They are made from the hide of a nightmare beast. Aren’t there only a dozen nightmare beasts on Athas. That is going to make these gloves extremely rare.
How about tembo hide or id fiend hide?
Jolting Pole
It has an obsidian point. Wouldn’t an obsidian point cause damage anyway without the psychic jolt?
Page 97
the masenquo of the water drake
The masenquo does not have any ability related to water. The other drake magical intrusments are related to their elements:
Air drake – control air
Earth drake = immovabilty
Fire drake – control flames
But this one has attration?
Page 99
Obsidian engine
The mass missive power seems tacked on and does not fit with the rest of the item.
Page 101
Photosynthesis power
I do not like that it can satisfy any of the water requirement. Plants that perform photosynthesis still need water right?
After this post, almost done. :D
Page 106
Table 4-2
Something looks unusual about the font for the line of manythrow. Mainly in the prerequisite column.
Lines mask poison signature and posion longevity are combined in the same shade.
Poison Miser is indented for some reason.
Antidote brewer is not on table 4-2
Page 107
Manythrow
Can this feat be expanded to include all small thrown weapons. Say shuriken or other exotic weapons that may show up in someone’s campaign.
Poison Miser
“You can poison two blades with one does of poison instead of two.”
Should that be?:
“You can poison two blades with one does of poison instead of one. (blade)”
Page 109
Is there any way to signify the items that appear in this book on the tables. Bold, underline, red color?
Page 112
Table 5-13 there are footnote marks for 4 and 5 but no footnotes beyond 2.
Page 118
Table 5-36
Why the 70 – 30 split on life shaped items?
There are more tissues on the table then tools, but tools are more common.
Page 120
Table 5-42
The first item does not have a percentage. Bag of holding, athasian.
This is the last big post I have for comments on AE, but there are a couple of things I want to double check, so I probably have a few more comments before I am completely finished. Hope it helps.
Chitin Golem poison
and the Tree of Death Fruit poison
Had one of Kam's old lists of poisons and noticed that 2 of 'em don't appear in the AE.
Chitin Golem poison
and the Tree of Death Fruit poison
The Tree of Death Fruit is there, under ingested poisons in Table 2-15: Athasian Poisons, and in the descriptive text after.
IIRC, the chitin golem poison wasn't added because it was coming not from a ''natural'' creature but from a construct, so it made its harvesting kinda weird for bards, or something like that.
Thanks again to all those who worked on it. Great work.
Page 46
Ranike sap
Says the Gulgs known about it but Thri-kreen of Athas says the ranike tree grows high up in the Ringing Mountains. Far from Gulg.
Page 103
I do not like the klik tockchaka. It destroys the mystery of the past. The stored memories idea just means less mystery in the setting’s past.
thosa tokchaka
Can a psion switch from one thosa to another? Or only to another body? If so, what about the 11 day time limit? Is it restarted?
Do not like the tho-dul’kreen
Same reasons as for the klik tockchaka. I do not like stored memories.
The Tree of Death Fruit is there, under ingested poisons in Table 2-15: Athasian Poisons, and in the descriptive text after.
Oh, geez. Can't believe how blind I am. First thing I saw when I turned to the table was that entry. Oh, well. Sorry.
:D
Silly bearded cephalopod. Return to the ocean depths whence you came from, at once!
:D
Good old Cthulhu? oh, I see, you're talking about squidfur- hehe ;)
What was the topic?
Page 61 Ka’aku What is an elven knrisuckle-bone?