Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Zardnaar Dec 22, 2007 14:35:30	I decided to beef up the Eldritch Knight PrC found in the DMG. Essentially its a Fighter/Wizard PrC. I'm suspecting I may have gone a bit far however but anything IMC that encourages primary casters to multiclass is to be encouraged. Eldritch Knight Consider this as an errata for the Eldritch Knight found in the Dungeon Masters Guide. Requirements: To qualify to become an Eldritch Knight, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Weapon Proficiency: All Martial Weapons Spells: Able to Cast 3rd level arcane spells. Hit Dice. 1d8 Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Arcane Knight, Ignore Spell Failure 10%, 2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Bonus Feat 3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Ignore Spell Failure 15% 4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Bonus Feat 5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Ignore Spell Failure 20% 6th +6 +5 +2 +5 Bonus Feat 7th +7 +5 +2 +5 Ignore Spell Failure 25% 8th +8 +6 +2 +6 Bonus Feat 9th +9 +6 +3 +6 Ignore Spell Failure 30% 10th +10 +7 +3 +7 Bonus Feat Class Skills The Eldritch Knights Class Skills are: Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Jump, Knowledge, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and Swim. Skill Points at each Level: 2 Arcane Knight: Eldritch Knight levels stack with any arcane based caster levels the character may have. In the event of multiple arcane levels Eldritch Knight levels only stack with one. Ignore Spell Failure: Arcane Spell Failure from wearing armor is reduced by the percentage amount shown. Bonus Feat: An Eldritch Knight may select any bonus fighter feat he qualifies for.
#2 1bent1 Dec 23, 2007 16:41:01	isn't this but a combination of the eldritch knight and the spell blade for the most part?
#3 terminus_vortexa Dec 23, 2007 20:43:45	It's pretty cool, though. Everything is inspired by something.
#4 Zardnaar Dec 24, 2007 20:22:14	isn't this but a combination of the eldritch knight and the spell blade for the most part? Yeah I thought each PrC was weak but maybe mines to good.
#5 bluetooth Jan 06, 2008 2:21:37	I personally suggest giving the ability to cast in light armor instead of ASF reduction. That opens up the chance to take Battle Caster and really how many gish's use a physical shield when a first level spell can give them a much better shield bonus?
#6 hans_kelsen Jan 06, 2008 10:47:33	But the problem with cast in light armor and Battle Caster when in conjunction with this PrC is that he would be a guy in a tricked out Mithril Breastplate (even though metal is rare on Athas, there are tombs to be sacked) or the organic replacement of the Chain Shirt AND with full caster abilities, casting from the wizard list. I mean, that´s too much. One thing that I would change for sure is the Hit Dice, from d8 to d6.
#7 Zardnaar Jan 06, 2008 14:24:29	But the problem with cast in light armor and Battle Caster when in conjunction with this PrC is that he would be a guy in a tricked out Mithril Breastplate (even though metal is rare on Athas, there are tombs to be sacked) or the organic replacement of the Chain Shirt AND with full caster abilities, casting from the wizard list. I mean, that´s too much. One thing that I would change for sure is the Hit Dice, from d8 to d6. d6 hit dice is almost suicidal in melee combat. I'm trying to work out how to make this work. Most gish builds at the CO boards can get BAB16+ and 9th level spells by using combinations of Eldritch Knight, Abjurant Champion, and Spellsword. I'm trying to make a build possable without having to use 3-4 PrCs to achieve it.
#8 bluetooth Jan 06, 2008 17:19:55	You might want to consider abilities that let you sacrifice spell slots to gain combat buffs. d8 HD does seem like a lot, and d6 HD is suicide in Melee, but if you could expend a spell slot for BUT, if you could burn a spell slot to gain temporary hp (as per psionic vigor) that would make a smaller HD workable. (the mechanic would be the slots spell point value * 5) Barring that, I would give them a slightly extended spell list with such goodies as Divine Power, Righteous Might, etc. I still wouldn't give them d8 HD though. They are going to have to rely on their magic to get through fights, and a gish without magic should be significantly inferior to a straitup fighter-type. But they probably should be clearly better than a straitup fighter-type if they are constantly burning spells/slots to power their abilities. It's a limited resource and magic is for going nova anyway. And I don't think casting in light armor is too much. The Phantom Knight from Eberron is an Eldritch Knight that's been bumped up a notch (albeit with stricter prereqs) just like the OP wants to make. If nothing else, actually, you could take that class and swap out abilities of equivalent power for ones that make more sense on Athas. (Phantom Knight comes from the Five Nations supplement. You should check it out, Zardnaar)
#9 Zardnaar Jan 06, 2008 17:55:23	5 nations is one supplement I don't have. Theres various feats like Arcane strike which lets you burn spell slots to deal more damage.
#10 bluetooth Jan 06, 2008 18:56:08	my mistake, it's Knight Phantom http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4 I'm not familiar with feats like Arcane Strike besides Arcane Strike itself, if there are having them as bonus feats (instead of some of these abilities) might be worth it.
#11 Zardnaar Jan 06, 2008 19:06:55	Arcane Strike is something along the lines of sacrifice a spell level and gain +d4 damage per level of the spell used on melee attacks for one round. Complete Warrior IIRC.
#12 kelsen Jan 07, 2008 5:35:21	I think it´s too strong (at least for my taste, since I try to make PrCs diferent, but more or less balanced with MY standart classes). I would give a bonus feat only at 1st, 4th, 7th and 10 th level. I would also replace the good Will save for a poor or medium progression. I like your idea of giving a % to ignore spell failure (instead of a simple permission to cast spells wearing light armor). However, to fit with the previous adjusts I have suggested, I would start with 10% at 1st level, then 15% at 3rd lvl, 20% at 6th lvl, and 25% at 9th level. Thanks for sharing with us your ideas.
#13 hans_kelsen Jan 07, 2008 18:14:16	While d6 is suicidal on toe to toe combat, you can resort to spells like Bear´s Endurance, False Life, an arcane Divine Power (excellent idea) and even create the magical version of the psionic Vigour...and you can also use polymorph to change into a creature with high Constitution and Strength. If you use the spells above with a d8 HD, you´ll end up with more HP than most fighters...
#14 kalthandrix Jan 14, 2008 15:35:59	I like the idea of an updated Eldritch Knight. Most of the Prcs in the DMG are underpowered when compared side-by-side with some of the newer ones. Here are a few of my suggestions/comments: 1. Drop the BAB down to a moderate advancement (as the cleric). 2. Keep the high Fort and Will save which is think it appropriate for the class 3. Too many bonus feats IMO. I like that they would get them, but I would suggest going with a bonus a 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th at most. Maybe making the EK levels -2 stack with fighter levels to determine if they can qualify for fighter only feats like weapon specialization. 4. Keep the 9 levels of spellcaster progression (ie every level up 1st in the PrC) As a side note, I like the % reduction to spell failure right like you have it. There could even be a line of feats that would increase this amount for this class or allow them to have even greater amounts reduced if they specialized in a specific type of armor. One could even put in an ability that allowed them to cast even with armed with a weapon and shield - kind of like the bladesinger - making the somatic movements with their weapon and shield or something. Here are some of the reasoning behind my suggestions. This class has a full spell progression, meaning in my mind that they really focus their studies and time in learning arcane lore, while training in martial battle skills come in a very close second. Looking at the warmage, which is very similar to the concept of this PrC, you will see that they have skills and class abilities that are much more related with my suggestions. With a full BAB, two good saves, 5 bonus feats, 30% reduction of spell failure, and 10 levels of arcane spellcaster progression, this class would be a bit broken (I assume 10 in your class because you say that the levels stack with another arcane spellcasting class without mentioning any reduction in caster level), but with a couple of minor changes it would work.
#15 Zardnaar Jan 14, 2008 22:07:37	I like the idea of an updated Eldritch Knight. Most of the Prcs in the DMG are underpowered when compared side-by-side with some of the newer ones. Here are a few of my suggestions/comments: 1. Drop the BAB down to a moderate advancement (as the cleric). 2. Keep the high Fort and Will save which is think it appropriate for the class 3. Too many bonus feats IMO. I like that they would get them, but I would suggest going with a bonus a 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th at most. Maybe making the EK levels -2 stack with fighter levels to determine if they can qualify for fighter only feats like weapon specialization. 4. Keep the 9 levels of spellcaster progression (ie every level up 1st in the PrC) As a side note, I like the % reduction to spell failure right like you have it. There could even be a line of feats that would increase this amount for this class or allow them to have even greater amounts reduced if they specialized in a specific type of armor. One could even put in an ability that allowed them to cast even with armed with a weapon and shield - kind of like the bladesinger - making the somatic movements with their weapon and shield or something. Here are some of the reasoning behind my suggestions. This class has a full spell progression, meaning in my mind that they really focus their studies and time in learning arcane lore, while training in martial battle skills come in a very close second. Looking at the warmage, which is very similar to the concept of this PrC, you will see that they have skills and class abilities that are much more related with my suggestions. With a full BAB, two good saves, 5 bonus feats, 30% reduction of spell failure, and 10 levels of arcane spellcaster progression, this class would be a bit broken (I assume 10 in your class because you say that the levels stack with another arcane spellcasting class without mentioning any reduction in caster level), but with a couple of minor changes it would work. On paper I would agree that full BAB and spellcasting along with a decent hit dice would be broken. However as long as the caster levels have to take a hit to qualify I think you could do it. Another issue with such characters is MAD (mutual ability dependency) where you would probably have to spread your ability score all over the place. A decent wizard needs a high int for example and a high con is nice as well. A Fighter/Wizard kinda needs high str, intelligence, dexterity and con. MAD waters multiclass characters down unless both classes use the same abilty score or maybe 2.Any gish build I've seen on various threads is still weaker than a pure caster. A great gish build is also Druid 20 or Cleric 20/Cleric PrC totaling 20 caster levels. I believe the Fighter 1/Wiz5/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion5/Eldritch Knight 8 buikld can have BAB+16 and a caster level of 18. I dislike having to min max to that extent though and would like a dual fighter/spellcaster progression. Essentially an abjurant champion streched over 10 levels instead of 5.The Abjurant Champion is in the Complete Mage and has full BAB, spellcasting and d8 hit dice and class abilities. Great feedback though thanx.