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Ravenloft Shattering Event?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
lobotaru
Jan 20, 2008 17:13:04 This just suddenly occurred to me, but with all the upheaval on the material planes, wouldn't that reach and effect the Dread Realms since it has its fingers in all of those worlds? I'm going with either a second grand conjunction, or more likely, a "time of unparralleled darkness."

What do you guys think will happen to the Dread Realms upon the arrival of 4th edition? What changes would you like to see done to the Dread Realms, if any?
#2
krevon
Jan 20, 2008 20:43:41 Velsharoon will be junted there by the weave explosion and he will make the dark powers there crap their pants.
#3
riddling-reaver
Jan 21, 2008 16:18:04 I haven't read a Ravenloft supplement since 2nd edition. Did the Demiplane ever suffer the demonic invasion that was foreshadowed in certain modules?

And Velsharoon is nothing to the Dark Powers.
#4
watcher_in_the_mists
Jan 22, 2008 0:18:01 I thought that ravenloft would come close to the Time of Unparalleled darkness but not reach it because in my understating the ToUD means the end of the demi-plane of dread, if not entirely then at least in the way we know it as of know.

I dont see how they could implement a new major event affecting the demi-plane that would differ enough from the conjunction or the requiem to be worthy of attention and interesting to pursue its rich storyline.

I cant wait to see though how it will turn out in Ravenloft in 4.0, even if im not sure its gonna still be supported
#5
naderion
Jan 22, 2008 6:05:32
And Velsharoon is nothing to the Dark Powers.

I think it's a reference to Vecna.
#6
lobotaru
Jan 22, 2008 18:45:11 Not exactly sure if it was written up at the end of 2nd Edition or the beginning of 3rd, but Ravenloft underwent a Grand Conjunction due to Azalin trying to break free of his "tormentors," the dark powers. He completed a device that would use the power of hundreds of souls to basically blast a hole in the mists, allowing him to ascend, and then escape the mists. Unfortunately, in the process of doing so, the domains began to have conjunctions with the prime material planes on a massive scale. In the end, a group of adventurers somehow put a stop to the madness and stabilized the dread realms... they were, however, not where they used to be (the core got rearranged). Also, Azalin ended up shattering his soul trying to blast free of the dread realms... he was able to piece himself back together though.

If anything, I'd probably bet the seeds of change are in the dark heart of the Shadow Rift. For those of you who don't know, the Shadow Rift is a giant black pit in the heart of the core. The "dark lord" of this domain is an immensely powerful being hailing from the shadow plane, but it got stuck between dimensions before being able to fully manifest in the dread realms due to the grand conjunction coming to a sudden end. The shadow fey that dwell in the domain are like servitors to this being, and I believe they were working towards fully bringing him through into the realms. From the description, I think this shadow creature is on the power level of a deity.
#7
rotipher
Jan 23, 2008 15:09:02 While Azalin's escape-attempt that triggered the Requiem was a fairly significant event in Ravenloft history, it didn't disrupt the entire Land of Mists, the way the Grand Conjunction had. It was extremely disturbing to Darkon, but not other domains. Also, it wasn't intended to bring the Land of Mists over from 2E to 3E, although it's one of the later (but not the last) 2E Ravenloft products.

The Time of Ultimate Darkness was never explicitly defined in past Ravenloft products, and was certainly never declared to be the end of the setting ... although some apocalypse-obsessed residents of Ravenloft interpret the ToUD that way.

As for a "Ravenloft-shattering event" to mark the transition between editions: wait and see. There may not be any plans for WotC to re-release the Ravenloft setting, but we at the FoS are bound to have an evil plot (& netbook) in the works... :evil grin:
#8
trevorfrost
Jan 23, 2008 19:41:42 Honestly I hope not, though if Ravenloft does go to 4e i am curious as to how they will integrate Dragonborn who really don't seem to fit the feel of Ravenloft. Teiflings actually do kind of work though i would hope to see them have more variation in Ravenloft like they had in 3e..

One wonders what will become of the Caliban, which was an incredibly sound idea with a silly execution because instead of giving the Caliban its own set stat they used completely different fluff and attached all of the half-orcs stats...
#9
MidwayHaven
Jan 24, 2008 0:21:26 I found it appropriate that the Caliban were found as a substitute for half-orcs, which didn't exist even in RL folklore. As for the dragonborn, I keep thinking that excluding them out of the core/canon campaign setting entirely shouldn't the direction Ravenloft should take. D&D is all about inclusion--I suggest that the dragonborn be included in the core setting, but a story to justify their existence should be put into place.
#10
rotipher
Jan 24, 2008 9:49:11 You can't have a "themed" campaign setting like Ravenloft, without excluding elements that don't fit. Would the Land of Mists have felt remotely the same in the 2E era, if they'd included things like draconians, gen, or giant space hamsters? Some things in D&D should be restricted to worlds that match their motifs, else the flavor of each individual setting is lost.

I don't think dragonborn would have a place in Ravenloft as an established race. Perhaps a lone specimen might crop up -- an outlander, a Twisted human, or a mad mage's creation -- but not an entire population of them. It'd be like including B-movie space aliens in Lord of the Rings.
#11
naderion
Jan 24, 2008 10:24:36
Honestly I hope not, though if Ravenloft does go to 4e i am curious as to how they will integrate Dragonborn who really don't seem to fit the feel of Ravenloft. Teiflings actually do kind of work though i would hope to see them have more variation in Ravenloft like they had in 3e..

One wonders what will become of the Caliban, which was an incredibly sound idea with a silly execution because instead of giving the Caliban its own set stat they used completely different fluff and attached all of the half-orcs stats...

You don't have to press the whole PHB into a setting if you don't want to.
Of course, it's a good choice for major settings to do so, but ravenloft is a case for special interests, where fans are more interested in consitency than wanting to play everything that is possible by the core rules.
#12
trevorfrost
Jan 24, 2008 14:52:31
You don't have to press the whole PHB into a setting if you don't want to.
Of course, it's a good choice for major settings to do so, but ravenloft is a case for special interests, where fans are more interested in consitency than wanting to play everything that is possible by the core rules.

Well yeah Ravenloft is a special case, though most of the time Ravenloft covered all the core races and classes anyways.. Caliban filling in for Half-Orc being the exception (Well sort of, I mean the whole point of Caliban's seemed to fill in the percieved hole that no half-orcs in the setting created. Besides the fact that Calibans were pretty much Half Orcs stat wise, but were something completely different fluff wise. Which is why I always thought Calibans would have been much better if they had their own complete new set of stats.)

So I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to fit Teiflings and Dragonborn into the setting. Teiflings they could possibly get away with, Dragonborn would be far more difficult.

Heck during most of 2nd edition Ravenloft was one of the few settings that covered Psionics in its core books (Which I actually like, Psionics fits in with a horror setting better than most plain fantasy settings)...

I am of split mind of Ravenloft, I know a lot of Ravenloft fans want to move away from the magic and the Demi-humans and etc and focus more on the horror which i understand and in certain points agree on. However I personally like the dichotomy of Fantasy and Horror, if I wanted a human based plain old horror game, I would play Masque(Which I don't really care for.) and/or Cthulhu.
#13
lobotaru
Jan 24, 2008 15:14:13 Yeah, dragonborn for the most part would be outlander characters, and most likely run out of town on sight. Well, not that tieflings wouldn't get run out of town on sight either, but at least they can hide their features under the right clothes (of course that doesn't really appease the weary locals). On an up note, while dragons are exceedingly rare in the Dread Realms, there is a shadow dragon pair in Darkon. Azalin apparently hasn't seen any need to adjust their memories for the time being.
#14
GreenKnight
Jan 25, 2008 15:17:13 There's no need for a Ravenloft Shattering Event, as there is no cosmological upheaval. Everything is being retconned as having always been this way. We're not seeing a case of the universe working one way, and then suddenly working another. All that's needed is to retcon a couple things here and there in Ravenloft. For instance, Ravenloft would likely become a domain floating in the Astral Sea instead of the Deep Ethereal. Magic can be quite easily retconned as always having worked as it does in 4E. Strahd will be considered a Warlord instead of a Fighter, who may have retrained into a Necromancer class, or who's invested heavily in Necromancer Training Feats. Tieflings will be treated as Caliban, mechanically. Maybe Dragonborn, too, or Dragonborn will be native to an island far away from core, if included at all (There's no rule that states that every PHB race must be included in every setting, after all).

All in all, I imagine converting Ravenloft to 4E will be fairly easy. Ravenloft has always had to alter the D&D rules set in order to better fit it (like removing alignment detection), but since 4E is removing a lot of that stuff, already, then it'll likely require less converting then before.
#15
MechaPilot
Feb 03, 2008 0:54:07 I've never read up on the Time of Unparalleled Darkness (great name though), but according to posts it involves a demonic invasion. This could be fulfilled by demoic entities or energy twisting people into tieflings. My only real question is whether or not tieflings will have "reality wrinkles" (and if so, how much control is allowed).

Also, both tieflings and dragonborn could have domains isolated from the core (perhaps even a second core-like continent that includes tieflings and dragonborn). Or they could dwell in vast subterranean domains.

On another note. If the dark powers are the curators of the "Museum of Dread", you could have "exhibits" that exist in different time periods: medieval/renassance, victorian/old west, modern, and scifi (like alien or predator), or that have different themes: fantasy horror (with elves and magic, etc), straight horror (only humans, no magic, etc), or supernatural horror (only humans, but with magic and psionics, etc).

Any thoughts?
#16
Luis_Carlos
Feb 03, 2008 6:57:16 I imagine Ravenloft like a little portion of a second shadofell-like. As well as Ravenloft (barovia) there is other demiplanes of dread what are linked with some material planes like a dark parody, the evil twin of feywild. Do you undestand?

This "parasite" demiplanes sometimes abduct ordinary people who are caugthed in nightmare places like a hounted hill or the swamp where a psico-killer lives. Sometimes the people who are killed or dead in that land became petitioners, losing their before memory in most of cases, and living again to the possible next victims again of a monster or other suppenatural serial killer. This is the reason because ravenloft never is too uninhabited.
#17
lobotaru
Feb 06, 2008 19:16:31 After looking over the content of all the domains, they've pretty much covered all the classic corners and even some of the newer ones (Blutspur, anyone?).
#18
Steely_Dan
Feb 07, 2008 6:05:33 I actually hate campaign shattering events (faction war, prism pentad, time of troubles etc) - keep camping worlds static, so some writer doesn't come along and single-handedly destroy a setting with a novel or module or what have you.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lobotaru Jan 20, 2008 17:13:04	This just suddenly occurred to me, but with all the upheaval on the material planes, wouldn't that reach and effect the Dread Realms since it has its fingers in all of those worlds? I'm going with either a second grand conjunction, or more likely, a "time of unparralleled darkness." What do you guys think will happen to the Dread Realms upon the arrival of 4th edition? What changes would you like to see done to the Dread Realms, if any?
#2 krevon Jan 20, 2008 20:43:41	Velsharoon will be junted there by the weave explosion and he will make the dark powers there crap their pants.
#3 riddling-reaver Jan 21, 2008 16:18:04	I haven't read a Ravenloft supplement since 2nd edition. Did the Demiplane ever suffer the demonic invasion that was foreshadowed in certain modules? And Velsharoon is nothing to the Dark Powers.
#4 watcher_in_the_mists Jan 22, 2008 0:18:01	I thought that ravenloft would come close to the Time of Unparalleled darkness but not reach it because in my understating the ToUD means the end of the demi-plane of dread, if not entirely then at least in the way we know it as of know. I dont see how they could implement a new major event affecting the demi-plane that would differ enough from the conjunction or the requiem to be worthy of attention and interesting to pursue its rich storyline. I cant wait to see though how it will turn out in Ravenloft in 4.0, even if im not sure its gonna still be supported
#5 naderion Jan 22, 2008 6:05:32	And Velsharoon is nothing to the Dark Powers. I think it's a reference to Vecna.
#6 lobotaru Jan 22, 2008 18:45:11	Not exactly sure if it was written up at the end of 2nd Edition or the beginning of 3rd, but Ravenloft underwent a Grand Conjunction due to Azalin trying to break free of his "tormentors," the dark powers. He completed a device that would use the power of hundreds of souls to basically blast a hole in the mists, allowing him to ascend, and then escape the mists. Unfortunately, in the process of doing so, the domains began to have conjunctions with the prime material planes on a massive scale. In the end, a group of adventurers somehow put a stop to the madness and stabilized the dread realms... they were, however, not where they used to be (the core got rearranged). Also, Azalin ended up shattering his soul trying to blast free of the dread realms... he was able to piece himself back together though. If anything, I'd probably bet the seeds of change are in the dark heart of the Shadow Rift. For those of you who don't know, the Shadow Rift is a giant black pit in the heart of the core. The "dark lord" of this domain is an immensely powerful being hailing from the shadow plane, but it got stuck between dimensions before being able to fully manifest in the dread realms due to the grand conjunction coming to a sudden end. The shadow fey that dwell in the domain are like servitors to this being, and I believe they were working towards fully bringing him through into the realms. From the description, I think this shadow creature is on the power level of a deity.
#7 rotipher Jan 23, 2008 15:09:02	While Azalin's escape-attempt that triggered the Requiem was a fairly significant event in Ravenloft history, it didn't disrupt the entire Land of Mists, the way the Grand Conjunction had. It was extremely disturbing to Darkon, but not other domains. Also, it wasn't intended to bring the Land of Mists over from 2E to 3E, although it's one of the later (but not the last) 2E Ravenloft products. The Time of Ultimate Darkness was never explicitly defined in past Ravenloft products, and was certainly never declared to be the end of the setting ... although some apocalypse-obsessed residents of Ravenloft interpret the ToUD that way. As for a "Ravenloft-shattering event" to mark the transition between editions: wait and see. There may not be any plans for WotC to re-release the Ravenloft setting, but we at the FoS are bound to have an evil plot (& netbook) in the works... :evil grin:
#8 trevorfrost Jan 23, 2008 19:41:42	Honestly I hope not, though if Ravenloft does go to 4e i am curious as to how they will integrate Dragonborn who really don't seem to fit the feel of Ravenloft. Teiflings actually do kind of work though i would hope to see them have more variation in Ravenloft like they had in 3e.. One wonders what will become of the Caliban, which was an incredibly sound idea with a silly execution because instead of giving the Caliban its own set stat they used completely different fluff and attached all of the half-orcs stats...
#9 MidwayHaven Jan 24, 2008 0:21:26	I found it appropriate that the Caliban were found as a substitute for half-orcs, which didn't exist even in RL folklore. As for the dragonborn, I keep thinking that excluding them out of the core/canon campaign setting entirely shouldn't the direction Ravenloft should take. D&D is all about inclusion--I suggest that the dragonborn be included in the core setting, but a story to justify their existence should be put into place.
#10 rotipher Jan 24, 2008 9:49:11	You can't have a "themed" campaign setting like Ravenloft, without excluding elements that don't fit. Would the Land of Mists have felt remotely the same in the 2E era, if they'd included things like draconians, gen, or giant space hamsters? Some things in D&D should be restricted to worlds that match their motifs, else the flavor of each individual setting is lost. I don't think dragonborn would have a place in Ravenloft as an established race. Perhaps a lone specimen might crop up -- an outlander, a Twisted human, or a mad mage's creation -- but not an entire population of them. It'd be like including B-movie space aliens in Lord of the Rings.
#11 naderion Jan 24, 2008 10:24:36	Honestly I hope not, though if Ravenloft does go to 4e i am curious as to how they will integrate Dragonborn who really don't seem to fit the feel of Ravenloft. Teiflings actually do kind of work though i would hope to see them have more variation in Ravenloft like they had in 3e.. One wonders what will become of the Caliban, which was an incredibly sound idea with a silly execution because instead of giving the Caliban its own set stat they used completely different fluff and attached all of the half-orcs stats... You don't have to press the whole PHB into a setting if you don't want to. Of course, it's a good choice for major settings to do so, but ravenloft is a case for special interests, where fans are more interested in consitency than wanting to play everything that is possible by the core rules.
#12 trevorfrost Jan 24, 2008 14:52:31	You don't have to press the whole PHB into a setting if you don't want to. Of course, it's a good choice for major settings to do so, but ravenloft is a case for special interests, where fans are more interested in consitency than wanting to play everything that is possible by the core rules. Well yeah Ravenloft is a special case, though most of the time Ravenloft covered all the core races and classes anyways.. Caliban filling in for Half-Orc being the exception (Well sort of, I mean the whole point of Caliban's seemed to fill in the percieved hole that no half-orcs in the setting created. Besides the fact that Calibans were pretty much Half Orcs stat wise, but were something completely different fluff wise. Which is why I always thought Calibans would have been much better if they had their own complete new set of stats.) So I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to fit Teiflings and Dragonborn into the setting. Teiflings they could possibly get away with, Dragonborn would be far more difficult. Heck during most of 2nd edition Ravenloft was one of the few settings that covered Psionics in its core books (Which I actually like, Psionics fits in with a horror setting better than most plain fantasy settings)... I am of split mind of Ravenloft, I know a lot of Ravenloft fans want to move away from the magic and the Demi-humans and etc and focus more on the horror which i understand and in certain points agree on. However I personally like the dichotomy of Fantasy and Horror, if I wanted a human based plain old horror game, I would play Masque(Which I don't really care for.) and/or Cthulhu.
#13 lobotaru Jan 24, 2008 15:14:13	Yeah, dragonborn for the most part would be outlander characters, and most likely run out of town on sight. Well, not that tieflings wouldn't get run out of town on sight either, but at least they can hide their features under the right clothes (of course that doesn't really appease the weary locals). On an up note, while dragons are exceedingly rare in the Dread Realms, there is a shadow dragon pair in Darkon. Azalin apparently hasn't seen any need to adjust their memories for the time being.
#14 GreenKnight Jan 25, 2008 15:17:13	There's no need for a Ravenloft Shattering Event, as there is no cosmological upheaval. Everything is being retconned as having always been this way. We're not seeing a case of the universe working one way, and then suddenly working another. All that's needed is to retcon a couple things here and there in Ravenloft. For instance, Ravenloft would likely become a domain floating in the Astral Sea instead of the Deep Ethereal. Magic can be quite easily retconned as always having worked as it does in 4E. Strahd will be considered a Warlord instead of a Fighter, who may have retrained into a Necromancer class, or who's invested heavily in Necromancer Training Feats. Tieflings will be treated as Caliban, mechanically. Maybe Dragonborn, too, or Dragonborn will be native to an island far away from core, if included at all (There's no rule that states that every PHB race must be included in every setting, after all). All in all, I imagine converting Ravenloft to 4E will be fairly easy. Ravenloft has always had to alter the D&D rules set in order to better fit it (like removing alignment detection), but since 4E is removing a lot of that stuff, already, then it'll likely require less converting then before.
#15 MechaPilot Feb 03, 2008 0:54:07	I've never read up on the Time of Unparalleled Darkness (great name though), but according to posts it involves a demonic invasion. This could be fulfilled by demoic entities or energy twisting people into tieflings. My only real question is whether or not tieflings will have "reality wrinkles" (and if so, how much control is allowed). Also, both tieflings and dragonborn could have domains isolated from the core (perhaps even a second core-like continent that includes tieflings and dragonborn). Or they could dwell in vast subterranean domains. On another note. If the dark powers are the curators of the "Museum of Dread", you could have "exhibits" that exist in different time periods: medieval/renassance, victorian/old west, modern, and scifi (like alien or predator), or that have different themes: fantasy horror (with elves and magic, etc), straight horror (only humans, no magic, etc), or supernatural horror (only humans, but with magic and psionics, etc). Any thoughts?
#16 Luis_Carlos Feb 03, 2008 6:57:16	I imagine Ravenloft like a little portion of a second shadofell-like. As well as Ravenloft (barovia) there is other demiplanes of dread what are linked with some material planes like a dark parody, the evil twin of feywild. Do you undestand? This "parasite" demiplanes sometimes abduct ordinary people who are caugthed in nightmare places like a hounted hill or the swamp where a psico-killer lives. Sometimes the people who are killed or dead in that land became petitioners, losing their before memory in most of cases, and living again to the possible next victims again of a monster or other suppenatural serial killer. This is the reason because ravenloft never is too uninhabited.
#17 lobotaru Feb 06, 2008 19:16:31	After looking over the content of all the domains, they've pretty much covered all the classic corners and even some of the newer ones (Blutspur, anyone?).
#18 Steely_Dan Feb 07, 2008 6:05:33	I actually hate campaign shattering events (faction war, prism pentad, time of troubles etc) - keep camping worlds static, so some writer doesn't come along and single-handedly destroy a setting with a novel or module or what have you.