Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bad_mushroom Feb 10, 2008 19:38:01	So I was hoping the community could help me brainstorm some adventures or adventure hooks involving gladiator games. I'm not necessarily looking for the PC's to be gladiators or attendants, but that could be part of it. I've been looking through sports stories in the news to see what I might be able to relate back to professional blood sports in the Dark Sun setting. So far I've managed a hand-full of hooks, and they're all associated with rigging the outcome of a contest: --Someone pays a gladiator to take a dive. --Someone sabotages a gladiator's ability to perform. --Someone "juices" a gladiator in order to illegally improve their performance. --Someone is running unlicensed betting on gladiator games. *A sub-plot of any of these might be there a "someone else" trying to fix, sabotage, or "juice" the fight on the other end. Which creates an almost comical "both fighters work for Don King" result where both combatants fall over before either one swings a weapon. Does anyone have any further suggestions on where I might go in terms of having gladiator games as backdrops for adventures? I ask because the ideas I've come up with are all variations on a theme. If I run an adventure involving a sabotaged fight and then later I run one on a "juiced" fight, my players are going to say, "Hey, this is the same thing as last time."
#2 Zardnaar Feb 10, 2008 20:42:04	One of the Dungeon magazines had a really good gladiator adventure in it but I can't remember what issue. In my experience though Gladiator type fights dont work so will in 3.5. Odds are whoever gets in a full attack 1st wins depending on the levels involved. Also I would put money on the gladiator with a 2 handed weapon which will overpower any other combat style in 3.5 (dual, single weapon, sword+shield etc). That is also magnified by Muls and Half Giants which have a large strength bonus as well and Half Giants can use bigger weapons for more damage. Also you can easily cheat via spells like bulls strength, haste, stoneskin etc and various other buff spells. Maybe I'm just bitter as in the weekend a level 9 PC killed a CR 19 monster I put them against. I was trying to capture them alive. PC crits a Yuan Ti Anathema/barbarian 1 for 60+ damage and it rolls a 1 on it death by massive damage rule and gets coup de graced with a flaming weapon. On a side note the Anathema is a CR 18 beastie in 3.0 that should probably be lowered to CR15 or so in 3.5.
#3 bad_mushroom Feb 10, 2008 21:20:45	Part of the reason I want to avoid putting the PC's into the arena is because I know the rules aren't geared for competitive fighting. I would be looking for players to be an ancillary role that can effect the outcome of the more cinematic gladiator combat. That said... I did think of two more adventure hooks. --Gladiator comes out of retirement. PCs have to either help an old gladiator train or convince him/her to fight one last match. --Gladiator wants to escape slavery. A rich gladiator knows his owner's going to throw a match and have him killed (unlike retirement for professional baseball players, etc., most old champions die in a "retirement contest" which nets the owner a big final payout). This fellow is rich enough to hire the PCs to assist in a mid-match or pre-match escape. Any others?
#4 darthazazel Feb 11, 2008 1:31:10	How about this one... Someone has a popular Gladiator assassinated and the public is outraged. Sort of like what happens in India when Matinee Idols pass away. Peoples emotions can run very high especially if one of their hero's (I imagine Gladiators to be the closest thing the average Athasian city dweller would have to a hero) is killed outside of the Arena. Was it his greatest rival who orchestrated the hit? What was the motive behind the assassination? This probably would work best in Raam.... Maybe I'm just bitter as in the weekend a level 9 PC killed a CR 19 monster I put them against. I was trying to capture them alive. PC crits a Yuan Ti Anathema/barbarian 1 for 60+ damage and it rolls a 1 on it death by massive damage rule and gets coup de graced with a flaming weapon. Thats Brutal!! I bet the player was pretty happy though! AZAZEL
#5 Zardnaar Feb 11, 2008 3:08:51	How about this one... Someone has a popular Gladiator assassinated and the public is outraged. Sort of like what happens in India when Matinee Idols pass away. Peoples emotions can run very high especially if one of their hero's (I imagine Gladiators to be the closest thing the average Athasian city dweller would have to a hero) is killed outside of the Arena. Was it his greatest rival who orchestrated the hit? What was the motive behind the assassination? This probably would work best in Raam.... Thats Brutal!! I bet the player was pretty happy though! AZAZEL Yeah he was happy. I checked out ACs for high CR critters and most of them are in the 29-35ish range. Mr Fighter has +20 to hit and is often buffed by the PCs bard for an additional +3 or more to hit/damage and powerer attacks for -4 as a general rule. Power critical feat, improved crital Jovar (15-20 crit range) usually results in a crit most combats.
#6 bad_mushroom Feb 11, 2008 14:37:33	Someone has a popular Gladiator assassinated and the public is outraged. Sort of like what happens in India when Matinee Idols pass away. Peoples emotions can run very high especially if one of their hero's (I imagine Gladiators to be the closest thing the average Athasian city dweller would have to a hero) is killed outside of the Arena. Was it his greatest rival who orchestrated the hit? What was the motive behind the assassination? I'm going to look through on-line news archives for stories of rival British and European football teams where fans took things too far. That sounds like the sort of story you're setting up. Maybe I can take a series of news articles about a rivalry and transform them into the backdrop for an adventure.
#7 turlough Feb 11, 2008 15:45:39	I think there are a lot of possibilities but I agree that DND, as a game system, will break down for some of them. For gladiators, there were specific weapon combinations: net and spear gladius and shield trident and net spear Further, in general, the arena should negate magic. This sets up cheating if someone can bypass the anti magic area. (Maybe it's built on a dead magic zone?) Battles should last long. "Are you not entertained?" They are supposed to be for entertainment, after all. Then, you have other things for the arena. Ship battles Recreate famous battles of history animal (monster) fights Chariot races What if there were two man teams where there is a modified chariot that carries a floating disc with a gladiator. Then, the point is for the chariot driver to position their gladiator in the best place to strike. Perhaps with tactics (or a roll) they can give their gladiator an advantage of some kind. Perhaps the arena changes for the fight. Maybe they can only attack in certain areas. Again, maybe this is enforced by magic, maybe not. (So, if they can't attack, damage is dealt to attacker instead.) Maybe it's an honor system. In that case, most would want to be honorable, but some might not care about it. Betting and odds could be a big thing. What about a multi level tournament where someone has to make it to the semi finals? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_gladiator_types - it's latin and specific but has good ideas. (Okay, this has been sitting here for a couple of hours, so I am going to post it and perhaps add more later.) turlough
#8 vilehelm Feb 12, 2008 2:30:03	I ran a level 6 gladiator arena day with my players. None of the PCs dared to participate (they were only level 4 at the time) so I rolled up a few gladiators (not using the Gladiator class, which I don't like much) and let them bet on them - and play the ones they bet on. All matches were one-one one. These were my gladiators: Human Rogue/Barbarian (using feint to get off her sneak attacks) Thri-Kreen Fighter (specialising in dual hand crossbows) Human Psychic Warrior (using double-headed spear with a few self buffs (enlarge person)) Elf Fighter specialising in staff (using Combat Expertise and Quick Staff as main feats) Elf Rogue/Fighter (with longbow and elven longblade, using psychic wild talents of Burst, Hustle and Dimensional Slide to gain an advantage) Mul Fighter (Trikal Specialist, using Shock Trooper and Power Attack) Human Fighter (Specialised in shield bashing tactics, using an Alhulak as a second weapon for reach) This very versatile bunch made for a lot of exciting combats. I had expected the Mul to dominate the events with his huge damage, but in the end he got whacked by the Elf Rogue/Fighter's speed and sneak attack (when he finally got his charge off, the Elf used Sneak Attack of Opportunity and Hold the Line to finish him). The Thri-Kreen ended up winning easily with it's good AC and consistent ranged damage (up to 4d4+20 per round). In the end, the PCs got a good view of the lethality of the arena. Now they finally reached Tyr, and they will probably visit the arena there too.
#9 Zardnaar Feb 12, 2008 12:14:33	I assume the Thri Kreen had the crossbow sniper feat?
#10 Band2 Feb 12, 2008 14:21:53	That said... I did think of two more adventure hooks. Any others? How about the party is got up in a gladiator revolt and have to avoid the blood crazyed gladiators bent on freedom and also the templars sent in to crush the rebellion. Fight in the stands The party could be meeting a contact at a collesum during a match, when templars or another enemy of the party shows up and attacks. The PC's fight in the stands. Someone is stealing the bodies of the gladiators. Who and why? Maybe a defiler creating zombie troops. An undead creature feeds on the bodies. The deaths are fakes and the gladiators are smuggled to freedom. Some times they use trial by combat. The party could be trying to help someone in a trial. If they do not find the right evident their friend will face trial by combat. Don't skimp on the gladiator matches are fixed theme. Just combine them with something else after using it the first time. They could help recapture some escaped animals used in the beast fights at the arena. Or just happen to be walking by when the beasts escape.
#11 king_cromag Feb 12, 2008 23:33:02	You could go for something as a burglery of a sport bookies money right before a major bout. They would have to flee town quickly I would imagine. You could have several underworld types working with and against the pcs.
#12 vilehelm Feb 13, 2008 3:09:32	I assume the Thri Kreen had the crossbow sniper feat? Yes, he had. He ended up being convinced to join the party but didn't survive long. Two crossbows help little against being grappled by a silk wyrm.
#13 Zardnaar Feb 13, 2008 5:45:36	Yes, he had. He ended up being convinced to join the party but didn't survive long. Two crossbows help little against being grappled by a silk wyrm. Theres a feat in Drow of the Underdark that combines Weapon Focus:Hand Cross and Rapid Reload:hand crossbow into one feat. It even counts as weapon focus when it comes to qualifying for other feats. How does rapid shot work with 4 armed creatures using 2 crossbows?
#14 vilehelm Feb 15, 2008 2:13:48	I'm not rightly sure. I assumed that with Rapid Reload, a Thri-Kreen could use it's upper arms to reload and it's lower arms to fire. It's quite an image. Not exactly in character compared to the chatkcha but for a renegade kreen gladiator ... As an addendum to your question: How does rapid shot work with any fast-firing one-handed weapon if you dual wield them? Or for dual thrown weapons? If a Human Fighter Level 11 carries 8 Throwing Daggers, can he throw them all in one round (using Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Rapid Shot)? IE, does Rapid Shot confer it's bonus attack to the off-hand as well?
#15 adidamps2 Feb 15, 2008 6:39:14	to the OP, what if a semi-profitable gladiator has gone missing/kidnapped from his stable and the PC's have been hired/recruited to locate him before his schedualed fight in X days. His MIA status needs to be kept under wraps to the locals, as the stable master doesnt want his value to drop. However the PCs must follow what little bread crumbs you leave behind for them in order to solve what happened to him.
#16 Zardnaar Feb 15, 2008 8:01:02	I'm not rightly sure. I assumed that with Rapid Reload, a Thri-Kreen could use it's upper arms to reload and it's lower arms to fire. It's quite an image. Not exactly in character compared to the chatkcha but for a renegade kreen gladiator ... As an addendum to your question: How does rapid shot work with any fast-firing one-handed weapon if you dual wield them? Or for dual thrown weapons? If a Human Fighter Level 11 carries 8 Throwing Daggers, can he throw them all in one round (using Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Rapid Shot)? IE, does Rapid Shot confer it's bonus attack to the off-hand as well? Na I knew the Kreen could Dual wield the hand crossbows. I would be very scared of any Kreen using two greatswords or greataxes- or even worse Jovars.