Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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#1attisFeb 15, 2008 18:33:47 | I have a new idea for the basis of magic that I am working on. Any constructive criticism would be appreciated.
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#2xlorepdarkhelm_dupFeb 15, 2008 18:51:14 | Are you familiar with spelljammer? Might want to pick a different name |
#3lhurgyofFeb 15, 2008 20:59:18 | Well, about the "fifth element" thing, I like the idea of having multiple elements (in our game, they are: Earth, Fire, Air, Water, Magma, Silt, Rain, Sun, Shadow [clerics who draw from the black], Spirit [those who draw from the gray], Time, Magic, and The Mind), each of which are pure elements, there are no para-elements. Other than that (I am very stubborn, and will always probably reference my Dark Sun game) I like everything else, not only does it make sense, but it's unique. |
#4xlorepdarkhelm_dupFeb 15, 2008 21:18:52 | I have the 4 elements, and the 4 paraelements. Don't need more than that, especially since that offers 8 completely different kinds of clerics in my campaigns. My previous comment was about the name more than the concept. |
#5attisFeb 16, 2008 8:02:11 | Thanks for the comments. Aether is just one of several real life names for a fifth classical element. I don't know that I would use it when I am finished with the idea. I was thinking Ruach (Roo-akh) would be a good term to represent this element. As for it being the fifth element - That was only for simplification of the idea. D&D has lots of elements and each could represent a different pattern of this protoelement. However, I would not say the energy planes were composed of it. I am developing this idea to also define why the elements, in effect neutral forces, are at war with each other on Athas and to support the whole Elemental Pact idea. |
#6brun01Feb 16, 2008 13:18:07 | I like your concept, Attis. |
#7lhurgyofFeb 17, 2008 19:02:29 | I have the 4 elements, and the 4 paraelements. Don't need more than that, especially since that offers 8 completely different kinds of clerics in my campaigns. The whole bundle of elements are put in for roleplaying reasons |
#8xlorepdarkhelm_dupFeb 17, 2008 20:06:54 | The whole bundle of elements are put in for roleplaying reasons I just think personally that for Dark Sun, a lot of those elements would make things needlessly confusing. Since clerics are tied to elements (and not deities), that would mean you have a plethora of different clerics, a whole slew of extra domains, and such, which while cool, it can become somewhat confusing, in my opinion. A lot of people here don't even like the 4 paraelements (me, I like them). Drawing from the black and gray would be more in the realm of arcane spellcasters, I think. And the mind would be more psionics than clerical. |
#9lhurgyofFeb 18, 2008 12:43:43 | Each aspect of nature is represented by an element, and yes, the mind is for clerics who tend toward psionics. The large number is done purposely for, as I said, roleplaying reasons. (I.E. Ralek is seting an attack against the elder spirit elemental, which will cause a stir in the order) |
#10ruhl-than_sageFeb 18, 2008 13:13:34 | Very nice, tidy explanation. Even if you didn't make it the official explanation of how things, work it would be a great in game philosophy to use with some of your NPC's or something. I like it a lot |
#11attisFeb 18, 2008 18:45:19 | Very nice, tidy explanation. Even if you didn't make it the official explanation of how things, work it would be a great in game philosophy to use with some of your NPC's or something. I like it a lot. Thank you R-T Sage! I can see it presented in a similar fashion as to how several inner planes models were shown in one of the books. Without one being right but being possible I drew up a quick diagram to show my working model of the inner planes: As of now I see the four elemental planes as being coexistent layers. Each plane dominated by its particular element. At the center of these finite layers is an area where all four layers bend into each other and become one layer. This area could be referred to as Chaos or as a maelstrom or something. I labeled it the Aether Storm in the diagram. This is a violent zone where the Aether particles form into the other four elements. This storm is fueled by the interaction of the two energy planes. As the Aether resolves itself into the stable elements they move out, away from the storm and into the appropriate plane. I believe that in order for the Wasting to be of such importance to the elementals that the size of the elemental planes must be limited. An infinite plane will remain infinite no matter how much of it becomes paraelemental. I am also playing with the idea that the para elements don't exist. Instead, I see the plane of Earth becoming the plane of Wasted Earth. Where the once mineral rich and solid plane becomes mineral poor, crumbly, and unsupportable of life. An example of which would be silt. Wasted Earth would be the Plane of Silt. I would place the Living Vortexes in the area of the Aether Storm, gathering the elemental energies for use by the SK's templars. Thanks for all the comments! |
#12attisFeb 18, 2008 19:03:09 | lot of people here don't even like the 4 paraelements (me, I like them). I like the idea of the paraelements, but not their composition. Instead of Sun being a mix of Fire/Air or Silt a mix of Earth/Water, I would rather the antithesis of Earth being Silt, that of water being rain, Air vs Sun, and Fire vs Magma. I guess instead of paraelements I would like anti-elements. The obverse being the bountiful, vibrant natural element and the reverse being its wasted, harmful counterpart. |
#13pneumatikFeb 19, 2008 8:33:49 | I like the idea of the paraelements, but not their composition. Instead of Sun being a mix of Fire/Air or Silt a mix of Earth/Water, I would rather the antithesis of Earth being Silt, that of water being rain, Air vs Sun, and Fire vs Magma. I guess instead of paraelements I would like anti-elements. The obverse being the bountiful, vibrant natural element and the reverse being its wasted, harmful counterpart. You got me thinking about "anti-elements". Each of the four classical elements has its opposite. But with the paraelements being the enemies, clerics of opposing elements would have a reason to work together. I don't have a problem with, say, fire and water clerics working together, as long as fire and water are not supposed to be diametrically opposed to each other. But what if each paraelement is the opposite of a classical element? Now you have two clear sides /and/ you don't have opposed elements working together. So I like the idea. What I don't like as much (for my game) is the idea of the opposite of water being rain. I feel like the opposite of water should be something related to fire. In general, I feel like the opposite paraelement of each classic element should have a component of the traditionally opposing classical element in it. Confusing? Possibly. To hopefully clear things up, here's a listing of each classical element and its opposing paraelement (IMC, anyway): Fire - Rain (Water rarely moves to douse fires; Rain will douse your cooking or heating fire) Earth - Sun (Air never really destroys Earth. The Sun is what bakes the ground and makes it hard to grow plants) Water - Magma (Magma flows like Water yet is hot like Fire) Air - Silt (Silt is loose and almost floats, like Air, but unlike Air it kills you if you breath it) So that's my idea. If/when I run a campaign (shortly after the 4th ed. psionics book comes out, most likely), I think I'll go with that set-up. |
#14attisFeb 19, 2008 10:51:34 | What I don't like as much (for my game) is the idea of the opposite of water being rain. I feel like the opposite of water should be something related to fire. I understand exactly what you are saying. My approach is slightly different because of my Aether concept. My idea for anti-elements is more of a corrupt form of the original element instead of an actual diametric. I would say that when you defile, you actually damage Earth and it becomes a ruined form of itself. I see Silt as a kind of ruined Earth. The actual Plane of Earth is becoming the Plane of Silt. The environment of the plane is altering and it is destroying the elementals habitat and increasing the anti-elements power. This is the reason the elementals are granting power to the peoples of Athas. To either save the elemental planes or to help alter them. I think on normal worlds the diametrically opposed elements of Earth vs Air and Fire vs Water is applicable but in the case of Athas those struggles would be minimal due to the natural elements fighting for their survival against the rise of the anti-elements. I would still use the idea of earth vs air but only in a limited sense for roleplaying options. |
#15xlorepdarkhelm_dupFeb 19, 2008 13:08:40 | It is an intriguing idea, to be sure, just not one I'll personally be using. It just doesn't mesh at all with the definition of the elemental planes/etc that I have working for my campaigns. |
#16ruhl-than_sageFeb 21, 2008 23:57:42 | You got me thinking about "anti-elements". Each of the four classical elements has its opposite. But with the paraelements being the enemies, clerics of opposing elements would have a reason to work together. I don't have a problem with, say, fire and water clerics working together, as long as fire and water are not supposed to be diametrically opposed to each other. Not bad |