Time Travel to kill Rajaat - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Time Travel to kill Rajaat

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
shrykull_dup
Mar 09, 2008 0:14:15 Are the mind lords the only one who know the psionic power time travel?

There's an entry in the timeline about how a mind lord goes back or forward in time and sees what happens, the cleansing wars and all, and wants to warn all of Athas.

This is the only way I can think of anyone on Athas, (actually, more like any non-deity) could kill him. Do you think he may have set up some kind of defense to prevent this from happening?

You never know, it may not make any difference. Some people say killing Hitler as a baby wouldn't have, as most of Germany was anti semitic and wanted someone like him.

But, this is a little different. Someone I think would have got the idea that if they could harness thier own life energy (psionics) why couldn't they harness someone else's (plants and animals) though I'm not sure there would have been another deformed person who saw themselves as a freakish accident and wanted everyone else eliminated as well. Basically his philosophy was he suffered and wanted everyone else to. Though, someone of Rajaat's power could easily change thier shape permanently.

How come when a deformed person is born on Earth, they don't conclude humanity evolving from apes was a mistake and try to kill all humans?
#2
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Mar 09, 2008 0:18:45 I don't allow time travel. With two exceptions: the Mind Lords (who strictly have the ability to look into the future, and only did it once to my knowledge), or possibly Avangions just after they cast the 10th stage spell (which I have them disappear, and they have no control over the process, eventually coming back).

Other than that, no time travel allowed.
#3
Zardnaar
Mar 09, 2008 13:06:56 Opens up a big can of worms. As DM I would rule any attempt to create a paradox would result in a spell failure and the PC attempting it get destroyed in a chrono rift or something.
#4
rikkiwalker
Mar 11, 2008 21:12:00 Without him Athas would not be the wonderful ball of dust we have all fallen in love with.....Time Travel presents too many possibilities.

The power is presented so non-chalantly in The Will and the Way while the so called high science for psychoportation is rather stupid.

I would make Time Travel the High Science and only the Mind Lords of Saragar know it.....

Hmmmm now they would have reason to go back in time and off the geezer now wouldn't they...
#5
dunsel
Mar 12, 2008 12:17:37 Why would you want to ruin a good thing?:D

Seriously, Dark Sun is Dark Sun b/c of Rajaat and killing him would alter the timeline irreversably.

Why would you want to do such a thing?

To answer your questions:
1) No, I don't think Rajaat would expect such a possibility.
2) There is always the possibility someone could create a psionic power similar to Time Travel. That is up to the DM. There is no doubt it would be at least an epic power.
3) Your last question is too high brow for this board.;) The acts of humanity are always in question.
#6
thanael
Mar 13, 2008 3:11:53 The classical twist would be to send PCs back in time, have them try to kill Rajaat and in the end they are themselves the cause of everything Rajaat later does. Perhaps because they are all demihumans themselves and get the help of gnomes and orcs etc...

As done expertly in Greyhawk with the Twin Cataclysms in Maldin's campaign
#7
cnahumck
Mar 13, 2008 8:44:47
The classical twist would be to send PCs back in time, have them try to kill Rajaat and in the end they are themselves the cause of everything Rajaat later does. Perhaps because they are all demihumans themselves and get the help of gnomes and orcs etc...

As done expertly in Greyhawk with the Twin Cataclysms in Maldin's campaign

I've done that... the look on the PC's face was priceless
#8
pringles
Mar 13, 2008 9:23:52 With good player, Time travel is great.

One of my psionic player use time travel, and he know that if he create a time paradox, he is screwed. So he's carefull and my sorcerer king are safe :P

Time travel add new game dynamic.

Sometime, I bring in the present the psionic player from the futur to help the party in a fight, and the psionic player know that he will have to do exactly what his futur-self had done in order not to create a time paradox.

For exemple; I made the psionic from the futur arrive on the player when they are in a city state market, he tell them to follow him in the futur (two month from there) and they must fight and kill a Fire drake in a big volcano while there futur-self fight the fire cleric vilain (lvl 22) in the same place. They know that whey will have to fight that cleric at some point and bring the fire drake exactly were it was when there past-self will come to help them. The pfp cost to bring there past self in the present is so high for the psionic that he dont have that much pfp left to fight the fire cleric, so the battle is more harder for them. So basicly, they make the same fight two time, but at different angle, and if they fail, they are screwed.

If you have good mature player, you dont have to worry about time travel.
#9
xlorep_darkhelm
Mar 13, 2008 11:16:59 Honestly, I tend to play a bit more fast and loose with time-travel in a RPG, whenever I actually allow for it. I simply handle paradoxes by not handling paradoxes. Killing your own grandfather won't make you disappear. If you need further explanation, the closest I can get is that you effectively are not originating from the timeline you altered, but a different one. Your memories of the past remain, you don't end up being adversely affected by changes, but the world around you can be.

But... at the same time, I just don't tend to allow time travel in Dark Sun. Not out of fear that people could do something stupid, but because in the setting itself (in Mind Lords), it appears that time travel is a very bizarre and foreign concept. Also, apparently not easy to do. The Mind Lords themselves could only glimpse into the future, after all, and that took quite a bit of effort from them.

The other exception I have is for Avangions.I think that they can potentially have the abiliy to travel through to the past... albeit, uncontrolled travel, and it happens once they finish the casting of the final stage of the metamorphosis... they just effectively disappear, and don't come back for a long long time... because they are traversing Athas' history.
#10
pneumatik
Mar 21, 2008 9:27:59 I was just thinking that it the real point of becoming an Avangion could be to time-travel right during the ritual between stages 9 and 10. Time travel on Athas seems to be very hard but doable. A stage 9 Avangion with lots of allies would be just the type of creature to do it. If you assume that time travel to the past can effect the future, you'd want to be very careful who you send back. A stage 9 Avangion is pretty dead-set on improving Athas.

What I'm talking around is the assumption that the Avangion process was developed by someone or something powerful and concerned with Athas. I don't have a perfect suggestion for who or what could have done it, but I think there are multiple possible sources.

Rajaat may have created both Dragons and Avangions to completely "restart" Athas. Right now Athas is a terrible mess because of Dragons and their defiling, but as time goes on there will be more and more Avangions. These Avangions will try to make Athas healthy again, but in doing so will create a different world than existed during the green or blue ages.

Spirits of the Land would have an obvious interest in making Athas healthy again. If each SotL is also a component in a larger SotL, then there may be a single Spirit of Athas who created the Avangion process as a counter to the Dragons.

You could probably tie Rhulisti into it, too. Becoming an advanced being is at least superficially like life shaping. Or the Veiled Alliance, or the Wind Mages (I may have the name wrong; I mean the preservers who banded together to fight the defilers during / before the Cleansing Wars).
#11
the_peacebringer
Mar 21, 2008 9:52:44 I'd say unless you'd wanted to end your DS campaign with it being totally saved (or destroyed), this could be the way to kill Rajaat. It would be an epic adventure requiring more than just finding an ugly baby and getting rid of him.

The idea of Athas being worst than it is is pretty cool; when the PCs finally come back, they can't recognize the lifeless (even more so), charred husk that remains for someone far worse than Rajaat came...

Still, I like Athas the way it is and probably will go the Twelve Monkey's way if my players try to time travel.
#12
huntmasteravatar
Mar 21, 2008 11:30:38 I'm a fan of alternate timelines and realities. So I would allow it. Although I use time travel alot in my other settings so I and my players normally dont have the urge to do so in DS.

Going back in time to defeat rajaat would probably lead to the PC's deaths, Rajaat always has an ace up his sleeve. My PC's wanted to go back in time and recruit rajaat, bringing him into the future so he could witness the destruction he had caused, then return him to the past.

That game was never finished due to being boiled alive in the hinterlands by some hungry halflings. The group failed 7 saves in a row, It was meant to be.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 shrykull_dup Mar 09, 2008 0:14:15	Are the mind lords the only one who know the psionic power time travel? There's an entry in the timeline about how a mind lord goes back or forward in time and sees what happens, the cleansing wars and all, and wants to warn all of Athas. This is the only way I can think of anyone on Athas, (actually, more like any non-deity) could kill him. Do you think he may have set up some kind of defense to prevent this from happening? You never know, it may not make any difference. Some people say killing Hitler as a baby wouldn't have, as most of Germany was anti semitic and wanted someone like him. But, this is a little different. Someone I think would have got the idea that if they could harness thier own life energy (psionics) why couldn't they harness someone else's (plants and animals) though I'm not sure there would have been another deformed person who saw themselves as a freakish accident and wanted everyone else eliminated as well. Basically his philosophy was he suffered and wanted everyone else to. Though, someone of Rajaat's power could easily change thier shape permanently. How come when a deformed person is born on Earth, they don't conclude humanity evolving from apes was a mistake and try to kill all humans?
#2 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Mar 09, 2008 0:18:45	I don't allow time travel. With two exceptions: the Mind Lords (who strictly have the ability to look into the future, and only did it once to my knowledge), or possibly Avangions just after they cast the 10th stage spell (which I have them disappear, and they have no control over the process, eventually coming back). Other than that, no time travel allowed.
#3 Zardnaar Mar 09, 2008 13:06:56	Opens up a big can of worms. As DM I would rule any attempt to create a paradox would result in a spell failure and the PC attempting it get destroyed in a chrono rift or something.
#4 rikkiwalker Mar 11, 2008 21:12:00	Without him Athas would not be the wonderful ball of dust we have all fallen in love with.....Time Travel presents too many possibilities. The power is presented so non-chalantly in The Will and the Way while the so called high science for psychoportation is rather stupid. I would make Time Travel the High Science and only the Mind Lords of Saragar know it..... Hmmmm now they would have reason to go back in time and off the geezer now wouldn't they...
#5 dunsel Mar 12, 2008 12:17:37	Why would you want to ruin a good thing?:D Seriously, Dark Sun is Dark Sun b/c of Rajaat and killing him would alter the timeline irreversably. Why would you want to do such a thing? To answer your questions: 1) No, I don't think Rajaat would expect such a possibility. 2) There is always the possibility someone could create a psionic power similar to Time Travel. That is up to the DM. There is no doubt it would be at least an epic power. 3) Your last question is too high brow for this board.;) The acts of humanity are always in question.
#6 thanael Mar 13, 2008 3:11:53	The classical twist would be to send PCs back in time, have them try to kill Rajaat and in the end they are themselves the cause of everything Rajaat later does. Perhaps because they are all demihumans themselves and get the help of gnomes and orcs etc... As done expertly in Greyhawk with the Twin Cataclysms in Maldin's campaign
#7 cnahumck Mar 13, 2008 8:44:47	The classical twist would be to send PCs back in time, have them try to kill Rajaat and in the end they are themselves the cause of everything Rajaat later does. Perhaps because they are all demihumans themselves and get the help of gnomes and orcs etc... As done expertly in Greyhawk with the Twin Cataclysms in Maldin's campaign I've done that... the look on the PC's face was priceless
#8 pringles Mar 13, 2008 9:23:52	With good player, Time travel is great. One of my psionic player use time travel, and he know that if he create a time paradox, he is screwed. So he's carefull and my sorcerer king are safe :P Time travel add new game dynamic. Sometime, I bring in the present the psionic player from the futur to help the party in a fight, and the psionic player know that he will have to do exactly what his futur-self had done in order not to create a time paradox. For exemple; I made the psionic from the futur arrive on the player when they are in a city state market, he tell them to follow him in the futur (two month from there) and they must fight and kill a Fire drake in a big volcano while there futur-self fight the fire cleric vilain (lvl 22) in the same place. They know that whey will have to fight that cleric at some point and bring the fire drake exactly were it was when there past-self will come to help them. The pfp cost to bring there past self in the present is so high for the psionic that he dont have that much pfp left to fight the fire cleric, so the battle is more harder for them. So basicly, they make the same fight two time, but at different angle, and if they fail, they are screwed. If you have good mature player, you dont have to worry about time travel.
#9 xlorep_darkhelm Mar 13, 2008 11:16:59	Honestly, I tend to play a bit more fast and loose with time-travel in a RPG, whenever I actually allow for it. I simply handle paradoxes by not handling paradoxes. Killing your own grandfather won't make you disappear. If you need further explanation, the closest I can get is that you effectively are not originating from the timeline you altered, but a different one. Your memories of the past remain, you don't end up being adversely affected by changes, but the world around you can be. But... at the same time, I just don't tend to allow time travel in Dark Sun. Not out of fear that people could do something stupid, but because in the setting itself (in Mind Lords), it appears that time travel is a very bizarre and foreign concept. Also, apparently not easy to do. The Mind Lords themselves could only glimpse into the future, after all, and that took quite a bit of effort from them. The other exception I have is for Avangions.I think that they can potentially have the abiliy to travel through to the past... albeit, uncontrolled travel, and it happens once they finish the casting of the final stage of the metamorphosis... they just effectively disappear, and don't come back for a long long time... because they are traversing Athas' history.
#10 pneumatik Mar 21, 2008 9:27:59	I was just thinking that it the real point of becoming an Avangion could be to time-travel right during the ritual between stages 9 and 10. Time travel on Athas seems to be very hard but doable. A stage 9 Avangion with lots of allies would be just the type of creature to do it. If you assume that time travel to the past can effect the future, you'd want to be very careful who you send back. A stage 9 Avangion is pretty dead-set on improving Athas. What I'm talking around is the assumption that the Avangion process was developed by someone or something powerful and concerned with Athas. I don't have a perfect suggestion for who or what could have done it, but I think there are multiple possible sources. Rajaat may have created both Dragons and Avangions to completely "restart" Athas. Right now Athas is a terrible mess because of Dragons and their defiling, but as time goes on there will be more and more Avangions. These Avangions will try to make Athas healthy again, but in doing so will create a different world than existed during the green or blue ages. Spirits of the Land would have an obvious interest in making Athas healthy again. If each SotL is also a component in a larger SotL, then there may be a single Spirit of Athas who created the Avangion process as a counter to the Dragons. You could probably tie Rhulisti into it, too. Becoming an advanced being is at least superficially like life shaping. Or the Veiled Alliance, or the Wind Mages (I may have the name wrong; I mean the preservers who banded together to fight the defilers during / before the Cleansing Wars).
#11 the_peacebringer Mar 21, 2008 9:52:44	I'd say unless you'd wanted to end your DS campaign with it being totally saved (or destroyed), this could be the way to kill Rajaat. It would be an epic adventure requiring more than just finding an ugly baby and getting rid of him. The idea of Athas being worst than it is is pretty cool; when the PCs finally come back, they can't recognize the lifeless (even more so), charred husk that remains for someone far worse than Rajaat came... Still, I like Athas the way it is and probably will go the Twelve Monkey's way if my players try to time travel.
#12 huntmasteravatar Mar 21, 2008 11:30:38	I'm a fan of alternate timelines and realities. So I would allow it. Although I use time travel alot in my other settings so I and my players normally dont have the urge to do so in DS. Going back in time to defeat rajaat would probably lead to the PC's deaths, Rajaat always has an ace up his sleeve. My PC's wanted to go back in time and recruit rajaat, bringing him into the future so he could witness the destruction he had caused, then return him to the past. That game was never finished due to being boiled alive in the hinterlands by some hungry halflings. The group failed 7 saves in a row, It was meant to be.