Just curious. How many of you think that there will be a 4.5? I'm hesitant to buy 4.0 after the whole 3.0 -> 3.5 debacle. Also, it seems that converting 3.5 -> 4.0 is not going to be remotely simple. The people at Athas.org have done a wonderful job (imo) with 3.5. Is there any future for a 4.0 conversion?
I a DS 4e release ever comes along (not 100% sure about that), it will surely take a while for the finalised version. Druids and ranger won't be part of the PH, and we also need the psionics rules out as well. Not to mention the insane amount of labour that will be to convert all the monsters in ToA and TotDL...
Btw, when will we see the 3.5e ToA with pictures?
TotDL monsters are still 3e I think no?
I think it's all 3.5.
Btw, when will we see the 3.5e ToA with pictures?
Good question.
3E was designed a lot from scratch, except in a few areas, like for the spells, which look quite similar to 2E spells.
4E spells look quite different from 3E spells, and many spells are gone or so transformed as to no longer have the same functionnality as before.
I'd say don't hesitate to buy 4E, there shouldn't be a 4.5E.
I no longer have faith in WotC if you couldn't guess.
4.5 is scheduled to be released August 12th 2010; however there may be a delay bringing the release date to November 20th 2011.
I no longer have faith in WotC if you couldn't guess.
Join the club. No more Dragon and Dungeon and 4th ed ingeneral looks bad, FR in particular looks ruined (I like Darksun, Realmas and Eberron). Mechanic wise it might be good but they're really shaking things up alot. You should see the 4th ed core pantheon. Bane is replacing Hextor and Bahumat is replacing Hieroneous and various other fun and games. For the 1st time ever I might be a grognard and stick with the previous edition.
TotDL monsters are still 3e I think no?
Brun01 has it right - they're all 3.5 since the most recent release.
As for "4.5", I don't think there will be anything like we had with 3e/3.5. However, WotC have said that they will be releasing additional core books each year (a PHB2, PHB3, DMG2, DMG3, etc etc) and intend to add new core classes and additional rules with these, as well as their regular series of splatbooks. So these might amount to a ".5" edition over time as the ruleset evolves.
That said, 4e is not necessarily the only way for DS to go. Yesterday the truly awesome Paizo announced their Pathfinder RPG, to debut in August 2009. Based on the 3.5 ruleset and backwards-compatible with all of 3rd edition, it also addresses some of 3e's more notable glitches. There is an open playtest ongoing - the first alpha release is available for download at paizo.com right now.
As far as I am concerned, I'll be adapting my DS games to use the Pathfinder RPG. It's close enough to 3e to make any conversions trivial and will be getting support from the best RPG company on the market, imho. Paizo truly are top of the tree. If you're happy with the 3e system and want additional support, or just unsure about 4e - or simply want to check out a damn cool system from a damn cool company, I'd encourage you to head on over to Paizo and check out the free previews:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG
*especially Kam, long time no see*
As if Book of Experimental Might does not cause enough concern if it is worth to change to 4E, now there's also Paizo with their Pathfiner RPG. In the end it might come down to "4E is available in German" for my group, but I also see myself create a Frankenstein's Monster-like hybrid of Book of Experimental Might and Pathfinder RPG - it will probably look worse than Ditto.
OK, I just had to chime in because this whole topic is keeping my thoughts very busy.
*back in his Pokéball*
That said, 4e is not necessarily the only way for DS to go. Yesterday the truly awesome Paizo announced their Pathfinder RPG, to debut in August 2009. Based on the 3.5 ruleset and backwards-compatible with all of 3rd edition, it also addresses some of 3e's more notable glitches. There is an open playtest ongoing - the first alpha release is available for download at paizo.com right now.
YEA!!!, Thank You Kamelion!
*especially Kam, long time no see*
*waves*
Hey there!
:D
Stick with 3.5 and give it a year to see what emerges from WotC or Paizo.
Just my 2p
:D
Since I am not updating to 4e a 4e DS doesnt matter to much to me unless they release new fluff. But I do hope they release 4e DS for all you 4e converts and 3.5 traitors.:P
- 1st level PCs are much tougher, so you don't have to start at level 3 to keep them from dying. If you going to say you need to be at least 3rd level to be playable and survivable, just call that 1st level.
- High level play will be much more managable. DS really comes into its own, IMHO, when you get to play around with all the high level stuff - SKs, ABs, the history of Athas, etc. I really don't want to run a 3.5 epic game, though.
In the end, though, what matters most is what WotC decides to do with the setting. Despite all the work of the templarate, WotC still owns Dark Sun. They could decide to bring it in-house, or decide they're tired of dealing with making fan-made material official.
I a DS 4e release ever comes along (not 100% sure about that), it will surely take a while for the finalised version. Druids and ranger won't be part of the PH, and we also need the psionics rules out as well. Not to mention the insane amount of labour that will be to convert all the monsters in ToA and TotDL...
That's druid and bard, ranger will be in the 4ed PHB
It will be a lot of job, but will also offer the chance for creative people to shine through when monster "redesign" comes along, if athas.org ever goes 4E.
Sand howlers will have great group abilities, dark spiders...no idea. Obviously I'm not one of these creative people I talked about ;) I at least hope to provide a few unique abilities to the lot, though.
In the end, though, what matters most is what WotC decides to do with the setting. Despite all the work of the templarate, WotC still owns Dark Sun. They could decide to bring it in-house, or decide they're tired of dealing with making fan-made material official.
Not worth wasting time speculating about WotC taking DS back. It's been 12 years, they've moved on. End of story.
That said, 4e is not necessarily the only way for DS to go. Yesterday the truly awesome Paizo announced their Pathfinder RPG, to debut in August 2009. Based on the 3.5 ruleset and backwards-compatible with all of 3rd edition, it also addresses some of 3e's more notable glitches. There is an open playtest ongoing - the first alpha release is available for download at paizo.com right now.
Now this [b][u]IS[/b][/u] worth talking about! For anyone who is satisfied with 3.5, is interested in the multitude of unexplored options, doesn't want to encourage a business model that requires loyal customers to start from scratch again and again in the name of progress or whatever other reasons (I'm sure there are a great deal of them)... Paizo's Pathfinder looks like a viable solution to WotC's complete revamp. Personally, I'm fairly commited to 3.5 as a Darksun DM, 3.5 player and TOS+ user. I'm sure plenty of people sit around looking at something in 3.5 and think, "What a convoluted game mechanic"! But, the fact that people were still buying 3.5 products, should have been a sign that the system worked. People didn't jump ship when the system was released, they embraced it.
Not worth wasting time speculating about WotC taking DS back. It's been 12 years, they've moved on. End of story.
I agree, it's unlikely WotC will republish Dark Sun any time soon. The issue is that, if I understand correctly, both WotC and Athas.org own any new DS content developed by Athas.org. This might cause problems if WotC changes their policy towards DS when 4th ed. comes out. Right now WotC approves everything Athas.org publishes (I think). If they're tired of doing that, there might not be any sort of official 4th ed DS.
"Anyone wanna be a Druid"?
"Sorry don't have page 38 with nthe Druid class its an ultra rare".
I've heard they come with packs of minis as well and there wil be only 30 odd spells to use and they're 100% compatable with the minis rules.:P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Not worth wasting time speculating about WotC taking DS back. It's been 12 years, they've moved on. End of story.
I agree, it's unlikely WotC will republish Dark Sun any time soon. The issue is that, if I understand correctly, both WotC and Athas.org own any new DS content developed by Athas.org. This might cause problems if WotC changes their policy towards DS when 4th ed. comes out. Right now WotC approves everything Athas.org publishes (I think). If they're tired of doing that, there might not be any sort of official 4th ed DS.
Not entirely true. WotC isn't having to approve each and every release Athas.org does. Athas.org has a set of guidelines that they have to follow for it to be an officially authorized Dark Sun product though. That said, WotC has a pretty ambitious plan with 4e, including releasing a number of campaign settings officially for it. What that means for Dark Sun, only time will tell.
The thing is, from what I've seen with 4e, I think it fits Dark Sun better than 3/3.5e ever did. I see myself probably grabbing the 4e books when they come out, and begin figuring out Dark Sun for it in my own campaigns. Especially if the higher-level play is more functional, as my campaigns tend to be long, and eventually lead to the higher level play, which I hated in 3/3.5e because it was unwieldy.
beside, any 4th edition materials released will eventually be rendered useless once 5th edition is released (and don't think it won't happen). I'm not trying to knock fans of the newer editions. I just feel that Wizards is ripping people off and I can't stand their business strategies.
2 edition forever :P
beside, any 4th edition materials released will eventually be rendered useless once 5th edition is released (and don't think it won't happen). I'm not trying to knock fans of the newer editions. I just feel that Wizards is ripping people off and I can't stand their business strategies.
Same thing TSR done. I'm more miffed at WoTC for ditching Dragon and Dungeon magazines. I think I'll give my money to Paizo and their pathfinder RPG system. Suppose I'll buy the core 4th ed books though so I can understand what everyone here is talking about in a few months. I could probably help out converting races, classes and monsters over to 4th ed.
But like Oninotaki posted: "Editions change, but Fluff is eternal", so I will use my 2nd Ed DS Box maybe 15 years longer;)
D&D edition? Doesn't make any difference to me! I just use the fluff and provide my own game rules.
Heretic!! :D
4E will mean a great deal of change to Athas one way or another I think. Even 3E brought a great deal of strife in changes to the setting (additions and subtractions of classes from 2E for instance), and 4E will be no different. It's hard to satisfy everyone, but as long as D&D is around, Dark Sun will have it's devotees and that will never change.