Lessee, I had an idea that I wanted to run by you in regards to the Sorcerer class:
Why don't you just make it so that Sorcerer's 'Magically Age' every time they cast a spell? along the lines of:
L0 magic is 1 year
L1 magic is 2 years
L2 magic is 4 years
L3 magic is 6 years
L4 magic is 8 years
etc.
a successful 'Fort' save (or a particular Feat) can halve this aging.
and a basic idea for a class I'd like to see added, to actually make 'Hope' for the Dark Sun universe (in the long run) a possibility:
Paladin of Life
Align: Must be Good originally and to actually level
Spells: none
Weapons: Simple, + any 3(I figure that because Evil behavior is the norm, it's harder for them to find teachers for the Martial skills)
Armor: up to Medium
Saves: all Good
BAB: Good
Side-note: I would assume that most if not all of the low-level members of this class are bound in slavery and used as 'Batteries' by Defilers.
CAs:
1st: Aura of Life, Magic to Life
2nd: Detect Defiler
3rd: Paragon Health
4th: Nurturing Grace
5th: Aura of Persevering Grace
6th:
7th: Pinnacle Health
8th:
9th: Vigorous Aura
10th:
11th: Greater Aura of Life
12th: Fast Healing 1
13th:
14th: Health of Pure Life
15th:
16th: Fast Healing 2
17th: Unyielding Aura of Life
18th:
19th:
20th: Fast Healing 3
Aura of Life- exists as a 5-foot radius from the character that expands by an additional 5-feet on every fourth character level (1, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20), can also tend to utterly Razed ground and restore it within a year using said Aura. Defilers can Raze the character(I'll let you guys come up with the details)
Magic to Life- Must succeed on a Caster Level Check to turn an Arcane Spell back into Plant Life under his Aura, if character is the target DC is 10 + Opposing CL + Spell Level, if the target merely falls inside his Aura of Life the target DC is 10 + Opposing CL + SLx3.
Detect Defiler- kinda obvious
Paragon Health- +1 to saves versus poison and disease
Nurturing Grace- Is permanently under the effects of Sustenance as described in the description of the 'Ring of Sustenance'
Pinnacle Health- +3 to saves versus poison and disease
Vigorous Aura- Similar to the Dragon Shaman 'Aura of Vigor', Party members within the 'Aura of Life' receive 'Fast Healing 3' until they have recovered half of their maximum hit points.
Aura of Persevering Grace- (Supernatural Mind-Affecting Ability) When a situation is at it's worst, such as an enemy defeating the party, the absolute best (Reality Bending) outcome happens for this character. (i.e. instead of dieing he'll likely become a Slave until he recovers and can escape, even though they know their chains/guards/whatever can't possibly hold him. . . I think you get the drift)
Greater Aura of Life- Undead inside the Aura must make a Fort Save each round or lose 3 HP, radius increases to 10-feet+10-feet.
Heath of Pure Life- Immunity to Poison and Disease
Unyielding Aura of Life- Immunity to Death Effects, Defilers can no longer Raze the Character, radius increases to 15-feet+15-feet.
Fast Healing- as the Ability
Anyways, please tell me what you think.
notes (that I can currently remember off the top of my head):
Arcane Magic costs 'Life' - check
When Bluffing away spellcasting, counts as Defiling -20 to check DC - check
I know that I'm forgetting some of my thoughts on the subject but it can't be helped, kinda tired at the moment.
Lessee, I had an idea that I wanted to run by you in regards to the Sorcerer class:
Why don't you just make it so that Sorcerer's 'Magically Age' every time they cast a spell? along the lines of:
L0 magic is 1 year
L1 magic is 2 years
L2 magic is 4 years
L3 magic is 6 years
L4 magic is 8 years
etc.
a successful 'Fort' save (or a particular Feat) can halve this aging.
wouldn't this kill off any character in short order though??
PC or NPC - after only a very limited number of spells of varying levels you'd die of old age !
The same reason that Wizards are all offshoots of Defiling, Arcane Magic needs 'Life Energy' to do what it does on Dark Sun. These guys, instead of taking their toll on the Land do so on themselves... obviously, this is going to leave some after-effects, besides that, it ties into the whole 'power from within' fluff as well with Dark Sun's own twist, which doesn't count as standard 3.5 anyways. . .
Generally psionics is seen as the power that comes from within, while arcane magic is an external power that the caster shapes. Simply put, sorcerers have a natural aptitude at this, while wizards need to obtain this knowledge through an external source of learning. Both still manipulate external energies, so I disagree with your logic.
Generally psionics is seen as the power that comes from within, while arcane magic is an external power that the caster shapes. Simply put, sorcerers have a natural aptitude at this, while wizards need to obtain this knowledge through an external source of learning. Both still manipulate external energies, so I disagree with your logic.
Hmm, then that actually opens up the way for a set of things I was thinking about already. I've started reading on the 'Dragons' so it'll be just a bit before I can really reply without accidentally turning them into mini-dragons. . .
wouldn't this kill off any character in short order though??
PC or NPC - after only a very limited number of spells of varying levels you'd die of old age !
Which makes them pretty uncommon. . . given Jon's argument on the subject, I'd think they'd be capable of some kind of Raze ability that can restore these lost years.
Honestly, I abstained from commenting on your class write-ups, because I honestly didn't have anything constructive to offer for them. I disagree with your take on Sorcerers, as well as think your take on Paladins doesn't mesh in with Dark Sun at all. Now, I am a biased opinion, since I've done both of those classes and integrated them into my Dark Sun campaigns my own special way.
Which makes them pretty uncommon. . . given Jon's argument on the subject, I'd think they'd be capable of some kind of Raze ability that can restore these lost years.
My argument is that an aging mechanic is inappropriate - for the same reason Flindbar objects to it, as well that 3.0/3.5 did away with magical aging. Inventing a Raze ability to cancel out your inherently flawed aging mechanic is not a solution I endorse. Simplicity is best - simply remove your magical aging mechanic and you resolve the issue.
My argument is that an aging mechanic is inappropriate - for the same reason Flindbar objects to it, as well that 3.0/3.5 did away with magical aging. Inventing a Raze ability to cancel out your inherently flawed aging mechanic is not a solution I endorse. Simplicity is best - simply remove your magical aging mechanic and you resolve the issue.
Then what would you recommend? Even if nobody in my group decides to play one immediately, I like to keep options open. Given the divide that Wizards already undergo I was simply trying to come up with something at the time. . . as for having magical aging done away with? It still persists. . . just far more of a rarity, the same can be said of 'Ageless' creatures that can't die because of old age.
Now, I am a biased opinion, since I've done both of those classes and integrated them into my Dark Sun campaigns my own special way.
Ah, nevermind, found your Paladin and looking now. I was right, I hadn't looked hard enough at the time.
Then what would you recommend? Even if nobody in my group decides to play one immediately, I like to keep options open. Given the divide that Wizards already undergo I was simply trying to come up with something at the time. . . as for having magical aging done away with? It still persists. . . just far more of a rarity, the same can be said of 'Ageless' creatures that can't die because of old age.
I made it simple. I did nothing mechanically different for the Sorcerer than the PHB sorcerer (other than the rules defining the differences between defiler and preserver, which are like the wizard in that regard) I just changed the setting/flavor text for the Sorcerer to be more "dark sun-ish". I figured that the Sorcerer is effectively someone who is naturally able to use something unnatural (arcane magic).
The most obvious explanation for me (kind of borrowed from the PHB sorcerer), is to make them be descended from something powerful and able to use magic similarly -- the Sorcerer-Kings. These beings have been around for thousands of years... At least two are noted to have offspring (Nibenay and Abalach-Re; I don't count Tectuctikulay's "son"). Of those two, one is apparently well-known to have had many children in recent memory (Abalach-Re)... it is not a stretch to think she's had many many more children that people have forgotten about, especially as she's about the worst example of motherhood or motherly instincts there is. So, there could be thousands, tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of people who can trace their blood ancestry to the Sorcerer-Kings (especially considering the ability for rebirth races to interbreed).
So... I figure every Sorcerer could potentially trace a heritage back to one of the Sorcerer-Kings... most Sorcerers simply don't know of this link. All they know is they have been "gifted" (cursed) with magic. Sorcerers, by their nature, often go completely untrained. The difference in my book between Defiling and Preserving is that a Preserver is taught self-control. without that training... most Sorcerers become Defilers. And, conversely, most Preservers are Wizards (notice, I did not say that most Defilers are Sorcerers nor did I say that most Wizards are Preservers -- those two conditions are not necessarily true).
In a world where the differences between defiler and preserver, heck often between arcane and divine magic are confused... the subtleties of the differences between Wizard and Sorcerer are completely lost. Sure, Wizards and Sorcerers know they are different. Sorcerers learn from a path of self-discovery, while Wizards learn from training and instruction. but to anyone who isn't either of them... they are vile magic-users (typically), or possibly known simply as preserver or defiler.
Ah, nevermind, found your Paladin and looking now. I was right, I hadn't looked hard enough at the time.
It is in my signature lol.
Then what would you recommend? Even if nobody in my group decides to play one immediately, I like to keep options open. Given the divide that Wizards already undergo I was simply trying to come up with something at the time. . . as for having magical aging done away with? It still persists. . . just far more of a rarity, the same can be said of 'Ageless' creatures that can't die because of old age.
Could you please quote a D&D source that involves magical aging for a core class - or any other D&D concept in 3.0/3.5? Terrors of the Dead Lands from athas.org is to my knowledge the only source that contains a magical aging concept. Like I said, I would do away with the idea.
Xlorep_DarkHelm: That actually sounds like a good explanation. . .
the 'Champion of Life' is likely going to be on the backburner as I read about the history of DS, and get my campaign in order.
Now, because Dark Sun strikes me as a high-powered world where death easily happens and even being a 3rd-level adventurer means you're at rock bottom (unless you have a nice GM) I was thinking of char. gen. going like this for my campaign:
Choose Race
Choose Class(or classes in the case of MCers)
Rolling:
Stats rolled in order (no swapping around)
4d6, drop lowest roll
re-roll less than 13
that way it's harder to power-game your stats, but you always have at least an 'average' stat (for a hero) in your main attribute no matter what you roll. . .
I just use the point-buy method. random stat generation always ends up as a bad idea in my games, because inevitably, there is one player who "always rolls high", and then Darwinism in action exterminates those who don't roll better than average.
Eh, point buy is nice, but doing things this way speeds up stat generation and I won't feel half as bad when I start being 'mean' in-game. . . especially when the stat 'power-houses' are usually a slave master's first target.