Here is my list of candidates form various worlds/setting.
1. Demogorgon. Statted out in the recent Dungeon adventure path. Clocks in at CR 32 IIRC. Level 30 Dragon/Psion/Wizard vs the Prince of Demons. Could be interesting.
2. Asmodeus. The King of Hell enough said.
3. Karsus. (Forgotten Relams)> In 2nd ed he was level 41 or 42 Netherise Arcanist (wizard). Cast the only 12 level spell ever and killed the god of magic Mystryl.
4. Ioulaum. Never really statted out but another Netherise archmage from the realms. Last mentioned in Lost Empires of Faerun as a illithid Elder Brain/Wizard 45 or so. Challenge rating 58-70 depending on how you count non associated levels. Survived the fall of netheril unlike Karsus who caused it.
5. The Lady of Pain (Planescape) The ruler of sigil Gods don't enter her domain (Orcus and Finder cheated).
6. Raistlin (Krynn) Not as high in levels as the other candidates here but I thought I would mention him anyway
7. Tchazzer. Another NPC from the Realms. Former demipower currently a half fiend great wurm red dragon/ Dragon ascendent 12 and he can grant spells to his followers.
:D
Lars Monsen. :P
LOL
That guy's a nutter ! :D
If you check out Borys' current CR, you wouldn't put him against all these "losers". He would mop the floor with all of them.
Where are his stats?
Legends of Athas' next release. :D
Is he still a 30/30 Psion/Wizard. Ioulaum a Psion 25/Wiz 45 but they didn't stat him out. As I said I'm not to worried about who will win (in epic play its usually an initiative roll due to the power level involved) but who would have a chance.
Is he still a 30/30 Psion/Wizard. Ioulaum a Psion 25/Wiz 45 but they didn't stat him out. As I said I'm not to worried about who will win (in epic play its usually an initiative roll due to the power level involved) but who would have a chance.
No, he isn't 30/30. He is much cooler now.
And don't forget his followers and henchmen. 25 16th level plus undead with a Rift spell nearby is just crazy.
That's right, kids, he's a whopping CR 50
Borys of Ebe = Male Champion of Rajaat stage X dragon psychic warrior 12/defiler 5/arch defiler 10/cerebremancer 7/Athasian dragon 10
That's right, kids, he's a whopping CR 50
Aw my version is only CR 38 or so:P . I wrote my own rules but he is basically a 40HD Dragon and uses spells and psionics at level 30/30.
CR 50 was no match still for th sticky goo that did him in.
TSR/WoTC plotline>CR;)
The Dragon was one of the toughest monsters in 2nd ed but he was killable by a high level party (15+). In 2nd ed I had a party full of PCs take down , great wurm shadow dragon, lvl 19 clerical lich and a Marilith tanarii- all at once. They then fought a avatar of a god and killed that as well (good ol vorpal weapons). They were around level 14-16 IIRC and there were 5-6 of them.
In hindsight maybe Combat and Tactics wasn't a balenced book:P I remember a Half Giant fighter dual wielding 2 handed swords who was also a grandmaster. He didn't miss often even vs AC -10. 2nd ed stoneskin was also really really really good and almost everyone in the party had it cast on themselves and spread out so dispel magic wouldn't get all of them.
Ok ok heres a lighter one for you. The Dragon of Tyr Borys vs a big bad from any other world. Not who would win but who could would be worthy of getting in the ring with him. Note the big bad could be neutral or good alighned. Also has to be a non deity so no gods allowed. I diodn't bother putting Eliminster in as he is a schmuck and in 3.0/3.5 has been outclassed by various Netherise wizards and liches (Larloch, Lord Shadow, Karsus, Ioulaum etc)..
Here is my list of candidates form various worlds/setting.
1. Demogorgon. Statted out in the recent Dungeon adventure path. Clocks in at CR 32 IIRC. Level 30 Dragon/Psion/Wizard vs the Prince of Demons. Could be interesting.
2. Asmodeus. The King of Hell enough said.
3. Karsus. (Forgotten Relams)> In 2nd ed he was level 41 or 42 Netherise Arcanist (wizard). Cast the only 12 level spell ever and killed the god of magic Mystryl.
4. Ioulaum. Never really statted out but another Netherise archmage from the realms. Last mentioned in Lost Empires of Faerun as a illithid Elder Brain/Wizard 45 or so. Challenge rating 58-70 depending on how you count non associated levels. Survived the fall of netheril unlike Karsus who caused it.
5. The Lady of Pain (Planescape) The ruler of sigil Gods don't enter her domain (Orcus and Finder cheated).
6. Raistlin (Krynn) Not as high in levels as the other candidates here but I thought I would mention him anyway
Pffft.
This is a "only a Ninja can kill another Ninja" type of think and any Flavorama NPC types of other Worlds simply can't win against a Darksun Super-Creature. Needs to be another Creature from Athas, most likely a PC Dragon/Avangion.
I mean, come on, there is a reason why the Grey and Black exists (to keep nearly omnipotent creatures like Borys from casually strolling out of there with their knowledge of how to suck the life out of everything including a Planet or even a star in exchange for personal power)
Even against a godling Borys might decide his opponent makes a nice alternative to a "tree of life" and just SLLLLLLLLLLLURP!!! the godling,demon, or other uber-powerful creature (which are living things who's lifeforces can be defiled) is suddenly discarded like a empty foil packet of Capri-sun. A godling,demon, or other creature that has never been to Darsun Realm would have never heard of defiling a lifeforce as a source of magic, nor do I think there is any innate way to not suddenly be losing a good percentage of you lifeforce and avatar form suddenly turned to ash other then making a standard save when Borys is "slurping" their spirit/soul ("Embraced by the loving gaze of the Dragon" I think is what his Templars called people suddenly turning to ash in front of him)
Might need to worry about Borys instantly gaining the likes of a Forgotten Realm's god's portfolio after he uses them as a "refreshing snack" as well.
I don't want to critic you to much Zardnaar, but dispel magic does wonder for the DM who fights a party protected with stoneskin and powered by hast. Not to mentionned that stoneskin can also find itself on the big bad guys.
Anyway I submit The Dragon vs Inferno, from Powers of Fearun or Tchazzar, Chosen of Tiamat, from Dragons of Fearun. Both are Red Great Wyrms of CR 40 and can be found in the preview section of the DnD main page.
I'll add Tchazzar to the list as he is reasonably badass and is fully staated out (Great Wurm Red Dragon, half fiend, Dragon Ascendent 12 from memory)..
In 2nd ed when my PCs came across a NPC with stoneskin they would either use dispel magic or everyone would throw darts at it as even a wizard could throw 3 per round.
Gold Dragon- other setting do have beings whose power level rivals or argueably exceeds the Dragons. Ioulaum is likely more powerful just on the above list. The 2nd ed Netheril Empire of Magic boxed set had level 10,11,and 12 spells in it and its power level exceeded the Dragon magic as presented in Dragon Kings (Ioulaums Netherise BTW). Using 2nd ed stats the Gorgon from Birthright might be another contender but I'm not familiar enough with him to put him on the list. As I said I'm not to worried about who would actually win but just naming the contenders. From Greyhawk Vecna would be a candidate but he is now a god so is excluded from the rules I presented in the 1st post. I got the idea form this thread from a DS discussion on the EN world boards.
Gold Dragon- other setting do have beings whose power level rivals or argueably exceeds the Dragons. Ioulaum is likely more powerful just on the above list. The 2nd ed Netheril Empire of Magic boxed set had level 10,11,and 12 spells in it and its power level exceeded the Dragon magic as presented in Dragon Kings (Ioulaums Netherise BTW). Using 2nd ed stats the Gorgon from Birthright might be another contender but I'm not familiar enough with him to put him on the list. As I said I'm not to worried about who would actually win but just naming the contenders. From Greyhawk Vecna would be a candidate but he is now a god so is excluded from the rules I presented in the 1st post. I got the idea form this thread from a DS discussion on the EN world boards.
Oh no, I am just saying
Round 1: Boryus "Slurrps" and his opponent (and anyone else within 30 yards) takes 10d4 permanent healed only by magic damage as the sprit/soul has been drained (might lose experience and levels related to hitpoints too) to cast
And Am doubting this would be a true Mano el Mano so He might cast Immediate Animation to allow him to....
Round 2: Borus "Slurrps" and his opponent (and anyone else within 30 yards) takes 10d4 permanent healed only by magic damage as the sprit/soul has been drained (might lose experience and levels related to hitpoints too) to cast
By this Time any Mage opponent with any sense in seeing and feeling his/her arms legs etc turn to ash or, if more sensitive, feeling the lost of vitality and power (as they lose levels and experience and memorized spell as their brains begin to turn to ash as well ) might want to escape this unfamiliar form of "attack"
Also remember THe Dragon is a Psionist with all attacks and Defences and there is no real way to protect yourself magically from a Psionic Death Field, Psionic Disitegrate, Awe, or other Psionic Sciences and Devotions...especially if you aren't a Psionist which can give you no defence against a phychic bombardment.
Really hard to see any of the "Old and Powefuls" mentioned being silly to get into such a fight, let alone stick around once how dangeruos Defilierism is to the mind/soul/and body....they didn't get "Old and Powerful" by being reclkess or foolhardy after all.
Likewise, even Boryus didn't bother to go where he was to be challanged let alone jumped by a army of fanatics, when the first of the SK's started to defy him and even tried to set an Ambush...hmmmm? (Rule number 1 on the rules of survival...It isn't "running away" it's a "strategic retreat and regroup")
Oh no, I am just saying
Round 1: Boryus "Slurrps" and his opponent (and anyone else within 30 yards) takes 10d4 permanent healed only by magic damage as the sprit/soul has been drained (might lose experience and levels related to hitpoints too) to cast
And Am doubting this would be a true Mano el Mano so He might cast Immediate Animation to allow him to....
Round 2: Borus "Slurrps" and his opponent (and anyone else within 30 yards) takes 10d4 permanent healed only by magic damage as the sprit/soul has been drained (might lose experience and levels related to hitpoints too) to cast
By this Time any Mage opponent with any sense in seeing and feeling his/her arms legs etc turn to ash or, if more sensitive, feeling the lost of vitality and power (as they lose levels and experience and memorized spell as their brains begin to turn to ash as well ) might want to escape this unfamiliar form of "attack"
Also remember THe Dragon is a Psionist with all attacks and Defences and there is no real way to protect yourself magically from a Psionic Death Field, Psionic Disitegrate, Awe, or other Psionic Sciences and Devotions...especially if you aren't a Psionist which can give you no defence against a phychic bombardment.
Really hard to see any of the "Old and Powefuls" mentioned being silly to get into such a fight, let alone stick around once how dangeruos Defilierism is to the mind/soul/and body....they didn't get "Old and Powerful" by being reclkess or foolhardy after all.
Likewise, even Boryus didn't bother to go where he was to be challanged let alone jumped by a army of fanatics, when the first of the SK's started to defy him and even tried to set an Ambush...hmmmm? (Rule number 1 on the rules of survival...It isn't "running away" it's a "strategic retreat and regroup")
Or Borys loses initiative and dies in the 1st round- epic combat is good like that (trust me seen it happen) when magic of that power level is being used. There are various spells that are effective vs psionics as well. Last I looked Borys isn't immune to a twinned quickened, split rays.
sudden maximised, empoered enervate for example.
I'm no expert at epic rules but I've seen combats at the epic levels where losing 20-3o- levels or taking 1000-2000+ damage or an opponent gets nailed by 10-20 spells per round is essentially the way it goes. The first spell cast can end alot of fights very quickly 9ie lets roll the initiative dice).
Epic PCs tend to either get worn down alot with waves of powerful creatures or die very quickly. Its very difficult if not impossable to test epic levels in D&D as thres to many variable like what spells get used, various buff spells,what each DM lets fly in regards to epic spellcasting (if they let it in) not to mention various magic items.
Each world also tends to have its own rules. Athas has 10th level magic, realms had 10,11,12th level magic, Birthright had blood abilities some of which were broken as hell (think Highlander). Psionics works differently on some worlds as well like in FR the default rule is psionics isn't different so Tchazzer for example could probably rip Borys apart if he used an anti magic shell. In Sigil the lady of pain would kill Borys, and a few spellcaster on Athas form other worlds would be helpless until they figured out how to power their spells. Some gods avatars in 2nd ed outclassed Borys. In 2nd ed stats Borys was one of the most powerful characters TSR done but he wasn't the only one- Borys met Larloch/Karsus/Ioulaum. Thats why I'm just collecting a list of contenders as each world tended to have its own BBEG.
Maybe duke it out on the Astral plane:P
Or Borys loses initiative and dies in the 1st round- epic combat is good like that (trust me seen it happen) when magic of that power level is being used. There are various spells that are effective vs psionics as well. Last I looked Borys isn't immune to a twinned quickened, split rays.
sudden maximised, empoered enervate for example.
I'm no expert at epic rules but I've seen combats at the epic levels where losing 20-3o- levels or taking 1000-2000+ damage or an opponent gets nailed by 10-20 spells per round is essentially the way it goes. The first spell cast can end alot of fights very quickly 9ie lets roll the initiative dice).
Epic PCs tend to either get worn down alot with waves of powerful creatures or die very quickly. Its very difficult if not impossable to test epic levels in D&D as thres to many variable like what spells get used, various buff spells,what each DM lets fly in regards to epic spellcasting (if they let it in) not to mention various magic items.
Each world also tends to have its own rules. Athas has 10th level magic, realms had 10,11,12th level magic, Birthright had blood abilities some of which were broken as hell (think Highlander). Psionics works differently on some worlds as well like in FR the default rule is psionics isn't different so Tchazzer for example could probably rip Borys apart if he used an anti magic shell. In Sigil the lady of pain would kill Borys, and a few spellcaster on Athas form other worlds would be helpless until they figured out how to power their spells. Some gods avatars in 2nd ed outclassed Borys. In 2nd ed stats Borys was one of the most powerful characters TSR done but he wasn't the only one- Borys met Larloch/Karsus/Ioulaum. Thats why I'm just collecting a list of contenders as each world tended to have its own BBEG.
Maybe duke it out on the Astral plane:P
Well, they call it "10th level" but Psionic Enchantments are quite different in using 2nd eddition "true' Psionics as a catalyst to cast Magic.
2nd eddition Psionic Combat (True Psionics not the 3rd eddition Menalist Wizard version of Psionics) takes place at the start of each round, so since most of the opponents are non "true Psionist" Borys would have the upper hand.
And since Gith and Mind flayers aways have 2nd eddition Psionics no matter where they go, even to Forgotten Realms where the natives their are 3rd eddition variaty and always have been which is why they temporary lost the ability when Mystra fell, Borys ability to "squint and make things happen" wouldn't be effected anymore then a Mindflayers Mindblast ability
Yes,yes, He may have never seen a Epic Spell before, but noting that the Opponent is Obviously a Ubber-powered near muchkined Magic user
Start of Round 1: Borys uses the Advanced Psionic Science "Supress Magic" (Mindlords use this Science the most to protect the Last Sea) creating a null magic field
Round 1: Borys b*tch-slaps his opponent
Start of round 2: Borys tries to make contact and dominate
Round 2: Borys b*tch-slaps his opponent
Start of round 3: If domination suceeded, Phychic Surgry makes opponent Borys' b*tch permanantly, if not Borys tries to make contact and dominate
Round 3: Borys b*tch-slaps his opponent
Repeat until Opponent is Borys' b*tch.
Really, it would be a waste to destroy such powerful creatures when they can be your minions and thralls to use against "bigger fish" (Just me thinking like a Dragon...lol)
I mean, I have no problem with someone trying to cast 20 spells a round in "Epic Battling" The Dragon....neither would the Dragon considering that Magic spells won't work on him 80% of the time.
Him simply having the Psionic Science "Energy Containment" maintained will make him immune to all Eletrical,Fire,Cold,and Sound Spells that work 20% of the time. Casting Shield and using some means of protection from acid and Poison would close up the weaknesses
And, other real problem with facing a 40 foot long 25 ton dragon with claws that do 2d10+15 damage each, and whos breath waeopn of super heated sand does 25d12 damage,and whos wings allow him to move twice as fast as a human can run (with high mobility)....him accidently sneezing or triping on a rock and falling on his opponent or "b*tch slappig" with the claws instead of open hand is really,really,really going to hurt
Round 1: Borys moves twaord opponent and accidently trips on rock and falls on opponent
"Whoops, hate when that happens"- Borys dusting self off and picking smashed bloody flesh,bone,organs,and cloth of off belly.
BTW, "The Valley of Dust and Fire" says that the Dragon had clones prepared. I wonder what happened to them when he was killed at the end of the Prism Pentad. Any ideas?
If you give the Dragon the Psionatrix and the Dark Lens, the Dragon could take on most of those epic characters - all at once.
BTW, "The Valley of Dust and Fire" says that the Dragon had clones prepared. I wonder what happened to them when he was killed at the end of the Prism Pentad. Any ideas?
IIRC the clones were optional in case PCs managed to kill The Dragon. Also ion the PP his death may have literally being soul destroying/trapping which woulld prevent a clone from working.
Borys of Ebe = Male Champion of Rajaat stage X dragon psychic warrior 12/defiler 5/arch defiler 10/cerebremancer 7/Athasian dragon 10
That's right, kids, he's a whopping CR 50
Yeah, but he's dead. Not quite scary.
BTW, "The Valley of Dust and Fire" says that the Dragon had clones prepared. I wonder what happened to them when he was killed at the end of the Prism Pentad. Any ideas?
Or... Borys' clone realized that Sadira had imprisoned Rajaat for good and he didn't need to roam the world sacrificing slaves in his free time. He now owns a little cave on the beach of the last sea where he spends the day working on his yard and complaining about kids having no respect for their elders.
Borys of Ebe (or any SK) vs. an Atropal & maybe it's contingent undead.