1. Slowly dying and on a declining spiral to ultimate doom - nothing can save it.
2. Slowly dying (as above) but with the vaguest of possibilities to save.
3. Status quo - neither declining or getting better.
4. Showing slight signs of improvement (whats this I hear you say ......hope on Athas ?!?!)
5. Weeeeeeeeee - lets all clap our hands and wait for the little people in the big space rock - they'll save us !!!
Pick a number or make your own :D
As for the vote, Slowly dying but with the vaguest of possibilities to save, based on my group's current date of FY-3. After events in the Prism Pentad, my opinion swings between 2 and 4. With the Piazo's up-date, I'm again heading towards showing slight signs of improvement due to rain returning to the Tyr region.
I'm fairly sure my GM is not going to be faithful to PP, basing the future off events in game instead, there-by reducing my opinion to #1 (DOOM!, BRING OUT YOUR DEAD...).
During the cleansing wars, the Tablelands were on a downard spiral, but during the last King's Age or so the destruction has ebbed to a point where things haven't really changed much as far as anyone aside from the SKs can remember.
Was thinking about Athas the other day (as you do) and was wondering what everybody's view was on the state of the planet.
5. Weeeeeeeeee - lets all clap our hands and wait for the little people in the big space rock - they'll save us !!!
Number five bady, oh ya! :P
The Tablelands? #2.
If it were one just one dominant SK like Dregoth or Kalak, then yeah things would just go from bad to suck, but I think that the 7 (or however many are left in your campaign) SKs kind of hold a delicate power balance, thereby preserving the tablelands fairly stable in it's current state of existence.
Its slightly improved but wouldn't take much to send down again. No Dragon and increased rainfall via the Serulean Storm.
I disagree with that, Xlorep.
If it were one just one dominant SK like Dregoth or Kalak, then yeah things would just go from bad to suck, but I think that the 7 (or however many are left in your campaign) SKs kind of hold a delicate power balance, thereby preserving the tablelands fairly stable in it's current state of existence.
I think that the delicate balance that persisted for thousands of years was extremely precarious, weakened each time another SK was killed (or in the cake of Oronis & Daskinor, merely written off). As entire cities were wiped off the planet, there was a definite population issue that was being produced, resulting in the Dragon's Levy being filled by raiding outside villages. When Kalak, Abalach-Re, Tektuctitulay, and Borys were killed, and Andropinus was imprisoned, that produced a power vacuum that has not been filled... Things are progressing from bad to worse, the Prism Pentad served (in my view) to hasten the arrival of the end. Add in the Great Earthquake opening the rift for the Kreen Empire to potentially invade, add in anything that could potentially get the Deadlands stirred against the living. Add in Dregoth's fun and exciting trip to attempting to become a god... Heck, even add in the possible chance of there being Rhulisti returning, and not being anywhere near as friendly as people have made them out to be. And to top it all off, there is Rajaat... Which I am personally of the belief he is now only "imprisoned" in the Hollow as much as he wants to be. Sadira's spells weaken at night, and she is the product of his own manipulations through his servants the Shadow Giants.
No, I think Athas might have 100 years at most left to it. Well, at least the Tablelands might be at that point. The rest of the world? Well, it depends on which "bomb" goes off and whether or not it causes chain reactions that could have global implications. It is a dying, fading ember of a world, as I portray it in my campaigns.
Pick a number or make your own :D
FIVE FIVE FIVE!! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
I choose "All mammalian life on Athas dies and the world is left to the bugs and undead (and starveling lizard-things)!" Ooo. Now I'm inspired to write!
I think that the delicate balance that persisted for thousands of years was extremely precarious, weakened each time another SK was killed (or in the cake of Oronis & Daskinor, merely written off). As entire cities were wiped off the planet, there was a definite population issue that was being produced, resulting in the Dragon's Levy being filled by raiding outside villages. When Kalak, Abalach-Re, Tektuctitulay, and Borys were killed, and Andropinus was imprisoned, that produced a power vacuum that has not been filled... Things are progressing from bad to worse, the Prism Pentad served (in my view) to hasten the arrival of the end. Add in the Great Earthquake opening the rift for the Kreen Empire to potentially invade, add in anything that could potentially get the Deadlands stirred against the living. Add in Dregoth's fun and exciting trip to attempting to become a god... Heck, even add in the possible chance of there being Rhulisti returning, and not being anywhere near as friendly as people have made them out to be. And to top it all off, there is Rajaat... Which I am personally of the belief he is now only "imprisoned" in the Hollow as much as he wants to be. Sadira's spells weaken at night, and she is the product of his own manipulations through his servants the Shadow Giants.
No, I think Athas might have 100 years at most left to it. Well, at least the Tablelands might be at that point. The rest of the world? Well, it depends on which "bomb" goes off and whether or not it causes chain reactions that could have global implications. It is a dying, fading ember of a world, as I portray it in my campaigns.
Well even if the Kreen wiped out most races in the Tyr region that could actually be good for Athas since defiler Kreen are essentially non existent. Its bad for non Kreen but might actually improve Athas.
Me ..... 3
(or 5 when the players do something really really stoopid !
)Interesting to see how many different views people have
Me ..... 3
(or 5 when the players do something really really stoopid !
How do Stupid Players equate to the release of Space Halflings?
One of the things that I started wondering about here, however, is what do you mean by better/worse. Better/worse for the planet it's self, the land, the existing cultures, the people?
How do Stupid Players equate to the release of Space Halflings?
One of the things that I started wondering about here, however, is what do you mean by better/worse. Better/worse for the planet it's self, the land, the existing cultures, the people?
See my previous post about the Kreen eating everyone in the Tyr region:P
One of the things that I started wondering about here, however, is what do you mean by better/worse. Better/worse for the planet it's self, the land, the existing cultures, the people?
See post No.1 :D
ie. would the planet survive or eventually turn into a lifeless lump of rock.
(this is on a species induced timescale not a geological one)
Well even if the Kreen wiped out most races in the Tyr region that could actually be good for Athas since defiler Kreen are essentially non existent. Its bad for non Kreen but might actually improve Athas.
As I said, it really depends on which "bomb" goes off.
And, since when were Defilers the sole cause of Athas' demise? I mean.... that sun definitely has the impression it is about to go nova. The Paraelements are not exactly doing any favors to the ecology/environment of the planet spreading thier influence as much as possible everywhere. The Obsidian Plains are a serious catastrophic situation that I don't think even the Kreen are ready to handle, and if the undead from there get out...
There's dozens of "world ending" scenarios quite literally just waiting to go off.
Of course, there is nothing stating that what the Kreen are doing is really all that good for Athas. As I tend to favor the notion that the Tohr-Kreen empire was not a natural development, or the Kreen as the species they now are had been altered/enhanced through "nature-bending"... There could be any other kind of side-effect. In their push for expansion, they could begin effectively "strip-mining" the animal life from Athas, or at least everything that helps fuel their ravenous hordes... and throwing a whole new environmental disaster as entire ecosystems get radically affected from this.
As I said, it really depends on which "bomb" goes off.
And, since when were Defilers the sole cause of Athas' demise? I mean.... that sun definitely has the impression it is about to go nova. The Paraelements are not exactly doing any favors to the ecology/environment of the planet spreading thier influence as much as possible everywhere. The Obsidian Plains are a serious catastrophic situation that I don't think even the Kreen are ready to handle, and if the undead from there get out...
There's dozens of "world ending" scenarios quite literally just waiting to go off.
Of course, there is nothing stating that what the Kreen are doing is really all that good for Athas. As I tend to favor the notion that the Tohr-Kreen empire was not a natural development, or the Kreen as the species they now are had been altered/enhanced through "nature-bending"... There could be any other kind of side-effect. In their push for expansion, they could begin effectively "strip-mining" the animal life from Athas, or at least everything that helps fuel their ravenous hordes... and throwing a whole new environmental disaster as entire ecosystems get radically affected from this.
If TSR had continued the Kreen would have been beaten back along with the undead from the deadlands and Dregoth would have failed to ascend. See told you Athas is gettiog better:P
If TSR had continued the Kreen would have been beaten back along with the undead from the deadlands and Dregoth would have failed to ascend. See told you Athas is gettiog better:P
I've seen the original unedited version of Dregoth Ascending. Honestly... there was a LOT of possible outcomes :P
Honestly, I think that even a little hope for the fate of the world is unrealistic with Dark Sun. Now... I might not explain that to my players, as it probably wouldn't affect those characters directly, since odds are they'd all be long dead before the world ended anyway, but I just don't think there is much time left before Athas is gone and done with. That's one of the reasons I really didn't care for the Dragon/Dungeon magazine "rendition" of Dark Sun... I think it is too optimistic to claim that there is even 300 years left.
I've seen the original unedited version of Dregoth Ascending. Honestly... there was a LOT of possible outcomes :P
Honestly, I think that even a little hope for the fate of the world is unrealistic with Dark Sun. Now... I might not explain that to my players, as it probably wouldn't affect those characters directly, since odds are they'd all be long dead before the world ended anyway, but I just don't think there is much time left before Athas is gone and done with. That's one of the reasons I really didn't care for the Dragon/Dungeon magazine "rendition" of Dark Sun... I think it is too optimistic to claim that there is even 300 years left.
My campaign is set in FY 1015 but thats with the assumption Sadira is syphoning the Cerulean Storm to increase the rainfall of Athas. An epic spellcaster like Amiska, Oronis or Sadira could tweak the weather enough at least locally and have the inclination to do so. At least Oronis has in New Kurn I would presume.
I think it is too optimistic to claim that there is even 300 years left.
What would happen to Athas in your campaign Xlorep ?
How would it all end ?
(curiousity got the better of me ;) )
What would happen to Athas in your campaign Xlorep ?
How would it all end ?
(curiousity got the better of me ;) )
I'm interested as well or will Athas be destroyed in the near future after your PCs are dead?
What would happen to Athas in your campaign Xlorep ?
How would it all end ?
(curiousity got the better of me ;) )
A number of things could happen:
- Sadira is allowed to continue using the SUn to fuel her spells, which hastens the death of the star, causing it to go nova and destroy everything. I'd estimate that it might take her about 200 years to do this, just kinda pulling that number outta nowhere, and then looking at the size/coloration the sun is supposed to be, and what Sadira basically is doing (I see it as equivalent to defiling the Sun)
- Rajaat is ignored for too long, completes his process to unify himself with the Paraelements, returns in his new paraelemental-fused body -- Obsidian bones rapped in cerulean storm with silt swirling around it, able to focus and harness the power of the Sun completely. In the process of finishing his work and scouring the world... he effectively sets off the Sun's nova process like Sadira eventually would, but at a much faster timetable... like maybe 5 years after he returns.
- The Deadlands become aware of the world outside the Obsidian Plains. The Undead there form up and march out across the Tablelands, killing and converting all of the living -- either into new Undead or just as spare parts as they bolster their forces against the growing surge of Bugdead. Unfortunately, the bugdead also push out more into the Kreen-controlled lands, rapidly killing and doing the same process with the Kreen. The end result is an incredible surge of Undead marching everywhere, and whatever is living becomes now left in hiding as the Undead battle on a larger scale and seek more spare parts.
- The Tohr-Kreen Empire assaults the Tablelands full-force. The Tablelands are really not prepared to deal with that sheer volume of Tohr-Kreen and get overrun. Even the mighty Sorcerer-Kings themselves end up unable to prevent this deluge. Sure, maybe when all of them were alive, possibly... But there just is too few left.
- Dregoth, while failing at becoming a god, succeeds at becoming a full dragon, and marches his Army of Light on each of the City-States, personally slaying his former peers and then painfully either transforming populations into more Dray or extinguishing those that can't... Effectively, he becomes very much like Rajaat, wanting to make Athas in his own image.
there's more possibilities.... But I have fun with the final 3 I listed kinda triggering off each other... causing all kinds of chaos in the Tablelands as Tohr-Kreen, Undead, and Dray are marching on the Tablelands, with everyone else stuck in the middle...
The first two have the most immediate disastrous effect... basically, Athas' sun is well, dying. And the more things that draw on the Sun's energy.... the more rapidly it is dying. Based largely in part on what the Pristine Tower's use has done to the Sun in the timeline.
My campaign is set in FY 1015 but thats with the assumption Sadira is syphoning the Cerulean Storm to increase the rainfall of Athas. An epic spellcaster like Amiska, Oronis or Sadira could tweak the weather enough at least locally and have the inclination to do so. At least Oronis has in New Kurn I would presume.
See, I tend to think of the Cerulean Storm as nothing more than extension of Rajaat's mind and will. All who use it for a power source (Ceruleans) eventually end up enslaved by Rajaat to do his bidding. It also is not a natural storm... and I don't think that it really can provide life-sustaining nutrients and water to help make the world better.
A number of things could happen:
- Sadira is allowed to continue using the SUn to fuel her spells, which hastens the death of the star, causing it to go nova and destroy everything. I'd estimate that it might take her about 200 years to do this, just kinda pulling that number outta nowhere, and then looking at the size/coloration the sun is supposed to be, and what Sadira basically is doing (I see it as equivalent to defiling the Sun)
- Rajaat is ignored for too long, completes his process to unify himself with the Paraelements, returns in his new paraelemental-fused body -- Obsidian bones rapped in cerulean storm with silt swirling around it, able to focus and harness the power of the Sun completely. In the process of finishing his work and scouring the world... he effectively sets off the Sun's nova process like Sadira eventually would, but at a much faster timetable... like maybe 5 years after he returns.
- The Deadlands become aware of the world outside the Obsidian Plains. The Undead there form up and march out across the Tablelands, killing and converting all of the living -- either into new Undead or just as spare parts as they bolster their forces against the growing surge of Bugdead. Unfortunately, the bugdead also push out more into the Kreen-controlled lands, rapidly killing and doing the same process with the Kreen. The end result is an incredible surge of Undead marching everywhere, and whatever is living becomes now left in hiding as the Undead battle on a larger scale and seek more spare parts.
- The Tohr-Kreen Empire assaults the Tablelands full-force. The Tablelands are really not prepared to deal with that sheer volume of Tohr-Kreen and get overrun. Even the mighty Sorcerer-Kings themselves end up unable to prevent this deluge. Sure, maybe when all of them were alive, possibly... But there just is too few left.
- Dregoth, while failing at becoming a god, succeeds at becoming a full dragon, and marches his Army of Light on each of the City-States, personally slaying his former peers and then painfully either transforming populations into more Dray or extinguishing those that can't... Effectively, he becomes very much like Rajaat, wanting to make Athas in his own image.
there's more possibilities.... But I have fun with the final 3 I listed kinda triggering off each other... causing all kinds of chaos in the Tablelands as Tohr-Kreen, Undead, and Dray are marching on the Tablelands, with everyone else stuck in the middle...
The first two have the most immediate disastrous effect... basically, Athas' sun is well, dying. And the more things that draw on the Sun's energy.... the more rapidly it is dying. Based largely in part on what the Pristine Tower's use has done to the Sun in the timeline.
Could PCs stop or influence any of that? Always wondered how the Kreen would deal with the Sorcerer Kings or Dregoth though. They can destroy their cities but personally killing them?????
Could PCs stop or influence any of that? Always wondered how the Kreen would deal with the Sorcerer Kings or Dregoth though. They can destroy their cities but personally killing them?????
They don't have to kill the SK's. They just have to get the SK's to unleash defiling spells, one after another, and end up sterilizing the Tablelands completely. Then the SK's would be rulers of a very dead and barren world... with no fuel for their magic.
I've had the PC's in my campaigns try to influence/prevent one thing only to inadvertently cause another to happen. There is a sort of tapestry holding all of these things together, and fiddling with one part of it can cause unexpected results in another.
Sure, I might hint at there being hope for the future to my players... but it all is a ruse. The world is ending, for my campaigns, that is a foregone conclusion. It just is a matter of which thing ends the world, out of a large collection of options and possibilities.
And, I like tormenting my players with the knowledge that their very actions to prevent the demise of the world have in fact hastened it. There is a precarious balance which needs to be kept in check, which if it is, then the world has maybe 200 years left to it. Fiddling with that balance probably will speed it up so that the world ends considerably sooner.
I've had my players in one campaign basically assist the crashed Rhulisti from the Messenger get into some ancient ruins, and activate a number of lifeshaped devices to begin manufacturing an army to reclaim their lost homeworld. I've had players be able to fight of Dregoth only to inadvertently assist Rajaat in completing his new metamorphosis. I've had players be able to get the Kreen stopped only to cause the SK's to go into all-out war with each other wiping out the Tablelands.
Yes, my players understand.... when I run Dark Sun, the world is ending. They still are drawn to it, because it never ends the same way twice. The most spectacular one was Dregoth, the Deadlands, Kreen, Rhulisti, and Rajaat all fighting against each other, with the remnants of the survivors from the Tablelands uniting against them as well in a massive world-ending war.
They don't have to kill the SK's. They just have to get the SK's to unleash defiling spells, one after another, and end up sterilizing the Tablelands completely. Then the SK's would be rulers of a very dead and barren world... with no fuel for their magic.
I've had the PC's in my campaigns try to influence/prevent one thing only to inadvertently cause another to happen. There is a sort of tapestry holding all of these things together, and fiddling with one part of it can cause unexpected results in another.
Sure, I might hint at there being hope for the future to my players... but it all is a ruse. The world is ending, for my campaigns, that is a foregone conclusion. It just is a matter of which thing ends the world, out of a large collection of options and possibilities.
And, I like tormenting my players with the knowledge that their very actions to prevent the demise of the world have in fact hastened it. There is a precarious balance which needs to be kept in check, which if it is, then the world has maybe 200 years left to it. Fiddling with that balance probably will speed it up so that the world ends considerably sooner.
I've had my players in one campaign basically assist the crashed Rhulisti from the Messenger get into some ancient ruins, and activate a number of lifeshaped devices to begin manufacturing an army to reclaim their lost homeworld. I've had players be able to fight of Dregoth only to inadvertently assist Rajaat in completing his new metamorphosis. I've had players be able to get the Kreen stopped only to cause the SK's to go into all-out war with each other wiping out the Tablelands.
Yes, my players understand.... when I run Dark Sun, the world is ending. They still are drawn to it, because it never ends the same way twice. The most spectacular one was Dregoth, the Deadlands, Kreen, Rhulisti, and Rajaat all fighting against each other, with the remnants of the survivors from the Tablelands uniting against them as well in a massive world-ending war.
Can they leave
Time for a holiday in the Astral plane or I hear the elemental plane of water is nice this time of year.Can they leave
hehe. Astral, Ethereal, and Outer Planes are all not accessible in my campaigns (the Gray counts as both Astral and Ethereal cosmologically for my games); I have the Plane of Shadows as basically what became the Black, fused with what was once the Negative Energy Plane, and all trapped inside the Gray, and I have the Positive Energy Plane having been integrated directly into all of the Elemental and Paraelemental Planes. The Elemental/Paraelemental planes, as "inner planes", I define them as being exclusive to Athas, and if Athas gets destroyed, they go away as well. The welfare/well being/power of the Inner Planes is a direct reflection of how well they are doing in the Prime. As such, the Plane of Water is not faring too well...
Then again, I *did* have a campaign where the group discovered the Plane of Mirrors... and figured out how to access it, eventually being able to escape Athas entirely. I've also had a campaign where a group thought they escaped Athas... only to end up in Ravenloft.... arguably not a better situation to be in.
Athas offers a very nihilistic experience in my games. A dying, soon to be dead world, where there are some who are striving (futility) to try and fix it. The campaigns do not necessarily have to involve the end of the world. There is more than enough time I've alloted for campaigns to thrive in and they never even touch on that idea. Dark Sun, for me, is about survival. Struggling to exist in a gritty, harsh, and very deadly world. Where morality and ethics are rapidly disregarded in favor of just being able to eat & drink, find shelter, and get by day by day.
Players who want to push to try and do something incredibly heroic in my Dark Sun campaigns find that it is either impractical, or a very difficult uphill battle. The more the players push to find out advanced knowledge and things the average Athasian wouldn't (or shouldn't) know, the more the players discover that things are really very messed up.
hehe. Astral, Ethereal, and Outer Planes are all not accessible in my campaigns (the Gray counts as both Astral and Ethereal cosmologically for my games); I have the Plane of Shadows as basically what became the Black, fused with what was once the Negative Energy Plane, and all trapped inside the Gray, and I have the Positive Energy Plane having been integrated directly into all of the Elemental and Paraelemental Planes. The Elemental/Paraelemental planes, as "inner planes", I define them as being exclusive to Athas, and if Athas gets destroyed, they go away as well. The welfare/well being/power of the Inner Planes is a direct reflection of how well they are doing in the Prime. As such, the Plane of Water is not faring too well...
Then again, I *did* have a campaign where the group discovered the Plane of Mirrors... and figured out how to access it, eventually being able to escape Athas entirely. I've also had a campaign where a group thought they escaped Athas... only to end up in Ravenloft.... arguably not a better situation to be in.
Athas offers a very nihilistic experience in my games. A dying, soon to be dead world, where there are some who are striving (futility) to try and fix it. The campaigns do not necessarily have to involve the end of the world. There is more than enough time I've alloted for campaigns to thrive in and they never even touch on that idea. Dark Sun, for me, is about survival. Struggling to exist in a gritty, harsh, and very deadly world. Where morality and ethics are rapidly disregarded in favor of just being able to eat & drink, find shelter, and get by day by day.
Players who want to push to try and do something incredibly heroic in my Dark Sun campaigns find that it is either impractical, or a very difficult uphill battle. The more the players push to find out advanced knowledge and things the average Athasian wouldn't (or shouldn't) know, the more the players discover that things are really very messed up.
Games set in the clasic era I tend to make brutal and about survival. Games set after the prism pentad I tend to make the focus on the restoration of Athas. I had the Kreen empire all but wiped out due to a halfling bio weapon from Thamasku. However in FY 1015 the Kreen numbers have recovered enough and they're about to invade the tablelands. I've more or less ignored the deadlands (PCs don't even know they're there) and Rajaat is stirring once agian....
Not sure where I'll go to be honest but the Tyr region has a river (me heretic:P ).
After the Prism Pentad, things only got worse. The old stability of the region was shattered. Raam is in utter chaos, Balic is sliced up and divided between three very different merchant houses, Draj is only stable as long as the psionics academy and Moon Priests can continue their charade, the moment it is discovered to be the farce it is... I believe Draj could easily become destabilized as the warrior factions execute the lying former templars and heads of the psionics academy. Tyr, the wonderful bastion of freedom is suffering from people starving in the streets, crops not being tended, and the overall living conditions steadily going from bad to worse as the infant Council begins to grasp the idea that they really have no cluse what a Democracy is or how it functions. Thing aren't better, there are serious power vacuums that were produced, and as there is nothing to fill those vacuums, there is an entire societal collapse imminent throughout the affected city-states.
No, the Tablelands were better off when the Sorcerer-Kings were all still in power over their respective city-states, as their numbers have dwindled, life has not improved one bit.
I tend to consider before the Prism Pentad as actually better for the population of Athas than after. If it wasn't for the events of the Prism Pentad, things would have remained stable, and the world could have possibly continued on. The only problem was that the birth rate always needed to exceed the Dragon's Levy requirements... and as less and less Sorcerer Kings were around (and their respective city-states), there was more and more of a demand on the remaining SK's to fill the levy.
After the Prism Pentad, things only got worse. The old stability of the region was shattered. Raam is in utter chaos, Balic is sliced up and divided between three very different merchant houses, Draj is only stable as long as the psionics academy and Moon Priests can continue their charade, the moment it is discovered to be the farce it is... I believe Draj could easily become destabilized as the warrior factions execute the lying former templars and heads of the psionics academy. Tyr, the wonderful bastion of freedom is suffering from people starving in the streets, crops not being tended, and the overall living conditions steadily going from bad to worse as the infant Council begins to grasp the idea that they really have no cluse what a Democracy is or how it functions. Thing aren't better, there are serious power vacuums that were produced, and as there is nothing to fill those vacuums, there is an entire societal collapse imminent throughout the affected city-states.
No, the Tablelands were better off when the Sorcerer-Kings were all still in power over their respective city-states, as their numbers have dwindled, life has not improved one bit.
True in a way but perhaps to negative. Theres now an epic level preserver in Tyr (Sadira), theres no more levy for the Dragon. Most of the problems are political in nature, not planetary. The deadlands aren't an imminent threat to the Tyr region, the Kreen are mobilising and I would assume Dregoths attempt at godhood fails regardless of if someone interrupts his ceremony in Dregoth Ascending. Rainfall has increased with the downside of Tyr Storms.
True in a way but perhaps to negative. Theres now an epic level preserver in Tyr (Sadira), theres no more levy for the Dragon. Most of the problems are political in nature, not planetary. The deadlands aren't an imminent threat to the Tyr region, the Kreen are mobilising and I would assume Dregoths attempt at godhood fails regardless of if someone interrupts his ceremony in Dregoth Ascending. Rainfall has increased with the downside of Tyr Storms.
I don't think Sadira is "an epic level preserver". I think she does Preserving magic at night out of necessity (her Sun access is prevented), but during the day, she is no more a preserver than a Necrmant, Carulean, or Shadow Mage would be -- she's found an alternative power source and can more or less draw on it as much as a Defiler pulls life energy from plants. I'd arguably claim that she is, in fact, Defiling the dying sun of Athas. something that won't necessarily be noticeable until she's done too much and causes the sun to age enough to go supernova.
Actually, I had a campaign where the group ended up figuring this out -- that Sadira is basically going to destroy all of Athas if she continues using her sun magic, they try to convince her to stop, fail, and then have the brilliant strategy to kill her. They succeed (she's not too powerful at night), and inadvertently make Rajaat free a lot sooner than he'd otherwise have been.
The Tyr Storms are split off from the Cerulean Storm. And by all materials that touch the subject of Tyr Storms, they are fast, highly damaging, and do nothing to helping restore the area at all. The Cerulean Storm is not a natural storm -- it is what Rajaat used as his "flesh" in the Prism Pentad... something that I believe points to his aligning the Paraelement of Rain with him (Rain is desperate... and would take any ally it could get -- more than any other element/paraelement, Rain is losing the battle in the elemental-paraelemental "war"). I'd say that the Cerulean Storm, and the Tyr Storms are not a good thing. They are not benefiting the planet, and the water from them is not nourishing plants or animals. In fact, it effectively vaporizes and potentially regroups back with the original storm very quickly.
Dregoth's push to godhood I'd also assume fails, because I don't think he really understands what it all means and/or there is something fundamental in Athasian cosmology that prevents true deific power from existing within it. But, he could seriously screw up a lot of things doing it all the same.
The world was already in eventual downfall. I seriously see any attempt to fix the problem as "too little, too late" -- and yes, I think the irony of Oronis is that he has the right idea, just bad timing... Even his efforts are doomed to fail as far as I'm concerned... there is just too much to do and not enough of a timetable left to do it in.
The number one biggest threat to Athas is quite honestly the Sun. Over the millenia, whenever the Pristine Tower was used, it coincided with the Sun changing... effectively seeming to rapidly age. I see it as equivalent (to a point) to a dark red supergiant, pumping out a lot of heat but little light. More to the point, I think it is nearing the end of its life... and anything drawing upon the Sun using anything resembling the power of the Pristine Tower is hastening that end. Sadira, Rajaat, heck even the Pristine Tower itself is all the harbingers of Athas' demise. In a couple hundred years, everything goes "boomy-boomy"... and the Sun isn't exactly something any group could, in my view, even begin to know how to "fix".
Of course, there is the Dark Lens. In the hands of an avangion, Athas could be restored within a few years. Of course, there will still be problems with Athas even if it was returned to the Green Age because the lack of metals on Athas will continue to retard development.
The Dark Lens is securely in Rajaat's possession thanks to the complete lack of foresight in the part of the SK's and Sadira.
Of course, there is the Dark Lens. In the hands of an avangion, Athas could be restored within a few years. Of course, there will still be problems with Athas even if it was returned to the Green Age because the lack of metals on Athas will continue to retard development.
There could be metal deposits in other parts of Athas. The phoenicians for examplke use to go to England to get tin so they could make bronze. Theres not alot of long range trade on Athas and the Tyr region has had about 14000 odd years to deplete its mineral resources.
Of course, there is the Dark Lens. In the hands of an avangion, Athas could be restored within a few years. Of course, there will still be problems with Athas even if it was returned to the Green Age because the lack of metals on Athas will continue to retard development.
Looking at the PP, the Dark Lens was destroyed.
Looking at the PP, the Dark Lens was destroyed.
correction: it was thrown in lava. Not necessarily destroyed.
Looking at the PP, the Dark Lens was destroyed.
Was this your April Fools? :P
Was this your April Fools? :P
Nope. I am away from the books, but I remember a discussion that happened where what is written in the books aludes to the fact that the lens was destroyed.
It was discussed in another thread. Someone with better google skills may be able to find it.
Nope. I am away from the books, but I remember a discussion that happened where what is written in the books aludes to the fact that the lens was destroyed.
It was discussed in another thread. Someone with better goggle skills may be able to find it.
Well I think you should use the game material, instead of relying on the book. Even PP should not be relied on for 100% other then a good read.
In the game material the Dark Lens was thrown in the lava then Sidra placed wards around it to prevent anyone from using it again....
Personally, I like the mystery in it.
Actually, I was mentioning that because a DM could take that either way. If you wanted your campaign to be sans Lens, you could.
Personally, I like the mystery in it.
Oh I agree with you on that. But for myself I always use the game fluff over novel fluff....
I plan to gradually make it known to my players that there is a far greater war being fought by the elemental (the water cleric in my party is starting to realize some of the extent). Eventually, I'd like to have the war break out on Athas... Rajaat leading the paraelements is a very interesting idea.
And IMHO, even though I completely agree with you, Xlorep, on Sadira being a "Sun Defiler", I doubt she'd defile it enough to kill it by herself even after 200 years... she could get help though (from the shadow people or someone using the Pristine Tower, etc).
And IMHO, even though I completely agree with you, Xlorep, on Sadira being a "Sun Defiler", I doubt she'd defile it enough to kill it by herself even after 200 years... she could get help though (from the shadow people or someone using the Pristine Tower, etc).
Well, the Pristine Tower is still drawing energy from the sun, all the time (the effects of it are the "New Races") -- I attribute that to Rajaat's fiddling with the tower a long time ago to use it for his own purposes, and he kinda broke it -- it did what he wanted (made his Champions), but the after-effects of his changes to it have been happening ever since. In a way, it has been "short circuiting" for millenia.
Honestly, I think the sun is *extremely* close to death, I think too much damage has been done, and I believe that Sadira's effect on the sun is more noticeable at this point, as there is so little "life" left in that star. The effect of one car on the world's gasoline supply is negligible when there is a supply equivalent to what the world had in total a hundred years ago. But if there is only 200 gallons of gas left in the entire world? That one car's impact is more pronounced. I think that is kind of the predicament the world is in.
IF Sadira stops using her ability to tap into the sun, I'd say .... there could be up to maybe 400 - 1000 years left. With Sadira's using it without really paying any heed to the impact of what she's doing (or any cause for her to pay attention to it -- the sun is big, and has always been there, right? little ol' her won't be able to kill something like that) -- she'll deplete the life of it faster. Heck, the sun might only last 300 years without her at this point, especially if you think of the Pristine Tower as a hole in the bottom of the fuel tank.
And if Rajaat comes out in all his power? You can bet that time interval will get shortened considerably.
So the trick would be to find a way to replenish the power of the sun. I wonder what would happen if one were to use the Gray for that.
Ever heard of the concept of paying off one credit card with another credit card? I'd think a similar rule would apply.
Well, the Pristine Tower is still drawing energy from the sun, all the time (the effects of it are the "New Races") -- I attribute that to Rajaat's fiddling with the tower a long time ago to use it for his own purposes, and he kinda broke it -- it did what he wanted (made his Champions), but the after-effects of his changes to it have been happening ever since. In a way, it has been "short circuiting" for millenia.
So the trick would be to find a way to replenish the power of the sun. I wonder what would happen if one were to use the Gray for that.
So how about some brave soul travelling to the Pristine Tower to "fix" it ?
Ever heard of the concept of paying off one credit card with another credit card? I'd think a similar rule would apply.
I have. It doesn't work. But... It would be interesting to see the sun turn Grey or sickly Green, as the energy source fixes it.
It is strange to me that Sun as a paraelement is doing well, even though the Sun is dying. Anyway for one of those to effect the other?
They don't exactly have an astronomy guild that is observing the stars and figuring out the life-patterns of them. I'd say that for everyone alive on Athas, including the Sorcerer-Kings, they don't pay it any mind that the Sun's gotten so big, so red. They could simply write it up as the Sun's been expanding its power, just like other paraelements.
For people to fix the Pristine Tower, I'd figure they'd need to a) know how the thing works or at least the basic principles behind the lifeshaping that had been done to make it; b) be able to get to it safely; and c) know that there is something wrong in the first place. There is a possible d) be able to figure out what Rajaat did to the Pristine Tower to screw it up and reverse it.
Still, even if the Pristine Tower was fixed, that won't make the Sun suddenly get better. You'd have effectively patched up the hole in the bottom of the fuel tank, but not refilled the fuel tank.
As far as the Sun as a paraelement doing well, but the Sun isn't... I'd say that as a Paraelement, it *appears* to be doing well, just like how when stars get older, they appear to be getting bigger and more powerful, but appearances aren't everything. As a paraelement, Sun might not even be fully "aware" that its demise is imminent. All it knows is that it has been gaining power, and wants more. In a mad, blind rush to secure more power and ignore the Balance that the four elements have tried to restore, Sun is more or less marching its way to suicide, blissfully ignorant of the situation.
If you assume that the Cerulean Storm is bringing real Water (capitalized on purpose) back to Athas, then maybe he does have a reasonable plan - kill most of Athas, then just flood the place and start over. But the storms are all bad paraelments and not good elements, then it's not really helping.
Maybe he's trying to get the paraelements to fight each other? Rain is bad for Magma and Silt, so I guess that's a start. Or maybe he just wants to completely start over. Turn Athas into a barren rock and then re-start it using elemental energy (based on the assumption that the four elemental planes never run out of their element).
Of course, the whole thing is.... I don't think anyone on Athas really knows that the Sun is on the verge of death. Not even certain that the Sun clerics would know. In most things in life, when they get bigger, they get stronger. With the sun though, if it gets bigger, it is dying. If it gets real big like Athas' one, real dark red, it is close to death.
Whilst it is possible that you could assume the Athasian sun is a red supergiant its much more likely to be a standard red giant meaning it could have somewhere between 100 million and a billion years before going supergiant or supernova.
Plenty of time for heroes to fix PT (assuming its broken) or Rajaat to escape and unleash unholy hell on everyone or Hamanu to become the next
etc etc etc
:D :D :D
If the sun was in the red fiant stage due to going supernova wouldn't everyone be dead already? Does it take a sun 2000 years to go supernova?
The fact that Athas's sun is large and red indicates a "red giant".
The "red" part of this name is indicative of the colour spectrum of light being emitted. Giant stars can also be white or blue etc.
This is a type of star in the later middle to end stages of its life as a "star".
The next stage after red giant is either a red "supergiant" where the size increases by 10 to 20 times, but even as a super giant it might have a life span of between 10 to 50 million years.
The other option is the "supernova" option and this is caused, in the case of red super giant, when the star essentially runs out of fuel and ceases nuclear fusion. The core collapses to a neutron star or black hole and expels the outer layers in a giant stellar explosion.
If either the red super or the super nova option occured - its curtains for athas !
The more I listen to you people, the more I'm starting to put together a theory: "Rajaat’s influence on Athas was never severed". Yes his physical essence and the vastness of his abilities were contained and locked away, but he was never FULLY imprisoned. Only the pride and ego of the Sorcerer Monarch’s prevented them from noticing the little things popping up all around them: Para-Elementals.
The Para-elementals could owe their very existence to the First Sorcerer, to be used as - well - sacrificial offerings to restore the sun (unknowingly of course). The desire for conquest and destruction seem to fall well within the whole ‘Cleansing War’ design (plan-B). Their power alone could be used re-invigorate Athas’s sun, returning the world to true green or possibly blue age standings. With the four traditional elements surviving.
On the Pristine Tower, yes it’s a leak in the tank. As far as fixing it goes: Xlorep is correct there is no one alive on Athas capable of fixing it. The are however, plenty of beings around capable of breaking it even further. A primitive can easily destroy an internal combustion engine, if someone else on Athas was wanting to gain power from it, they could simply damage it to the point of not doing being able to do anything or an observant individual Sorcerer Monarch (Oronis of Kurn anyone) might come to the realization of the leak idea. Alternately the tower could also be the sun’s fueling point for Rajaat (nobody’s ever asked weather or not the flow can go both ways).
Now I'm sure there are holes in this idea, but at this point it's just that: an idea.
Zard, you missed a decimal place. With the whole sun dieing thing however, the sun has been artificially aged - normal astrophysics don't apply. Still, I am fairly sure Rajaat knows something is up with the sun, IRL people have known for thousands of years about the flame color to heat output relation.
My point exactly about the sun being artificially aged. And.... I don't honestly want to get into the nitty-gritty details about astrophysics... it is a game with magic and such in it... as long as it is plausible enough, it works for me. Real-world science should be used in this instance as an idea for forming plausibility, but not a hard-set rule to then test it all against.
I'll agree that Rajaat and the people of Athas know there is something up with the Sun. That doesn't take a lot to figure out. But, from everything about the Sun, it appears to have gotten stronger, not weaker. It got bigger, and it got hotter. I am saying that with stars, what the first instinct or impression about them might be, or their changes through aging might mean could be incorrect. Bigger & hotter sun could easily translate into meaning more powerful, not "near-death".
The more I listen to you people, the more I'm starting to put together a theory: "Rajaat’s influence on Athas was never severed". Yes his physical essence and the vastness of his abilities were contained and locked away, but he was never FULLY imprisoned. Only the pride and ego of the Sorcerer Monarch’s prevented them from noticing the little things popping up all around them: Para-Elementals.
The Para-elementals could owe their very existence to the First Sorcerer, to be used as - well - sacrificial offerings to restore the sun (unknowingly of course). The desire for conquest and destruction seem to fall well within the whole ‘Cleansing War’ design (plan-B). Their power alone could be used re-invigorate Athas’s sun, returning the world to true green or possibly blue age standings. With the four traditional elements surviving.
I've considered a parallel idea on this. The Pyreen, as a race, seem tied to being druids. Druids get their power through he Spirits of the Land, who in turn get their power from the four elements. What if Rajaat's deformity extended beyond the physical appearance, to include this sort of spiritual connection? What if Rajaat does not have this "basic affinity" with the four elements/Spirits of the Land? If he discovered the existence of the Paraelements, he could have easily been trying to forge a new bond with them... Look at what Defiling has done -- it has served to make a lot of the paraelements more powerful (but weakening one). When Rajaat returned, his new "flesh" was the Cerulean Storm -- almost a sign that he somehow has forged a stronger pact with possibly the paraelement of Rain.
I honestly think that Rajaat could either have helped influence, or has been riding alongside with the whole grab for power that the Paraelements have been doing upsetting the balance. I think Rajaat *has* been using them to further his own goals.
I believe Rajaat definitely has more aces up his sleeves than his Champions gave him credit for. I don't think he's responsible for everything that is wrong in the world, but the current state of the Tablelands is quite honestly in many ways his handiwork.
On the Pristine Tower, yes it’s a leak in the tank. As far as fixing it goes: Xlorep is correct there is no one alive on Athas capable of fixing it. The are however, plenty of beings around capable of breaking it even further. A primitive can easily destroy an internal combustion engine, if someone else on Athas was wanting to gain power from it, they could simply damage it to the point of not doing being able to do anything or an observant individual Sorcerer Monarch (Oronis of Kurn anyone) might come to the realization of the leak idea. Alternately the tower could also be the sun’s fueling point for Rajaat (nobody’s ever asked weather or not the flow can go both ways).
Now I'm sure there are holes in this idea, but at this point it's just that: an idea.
Oh yeah, damaging/destroying the Pristine Tower further could prevent it from doing even more damage than it already has.
As far as the Sun as a paraelement doing well, but the Sun isn't... I'd say that as a Paraelement, it *appears* to be doing well, just like how when stars get older, they appear to be getting bigger and more powerful, but appearances aren't everything. As a paraelement, Sun might not even be fully "aware" that its demise is imminent. All it knows is that it has been gaining power, and wants more. In a mad, blind rush to secure more power and ignore the Balance that the four elements have tried to restore, Sun is more or less marching its way to suicide, blissfully ignorant of the situation.
Well the Paraelemental lord are nuts. It wouldn't be hard to imagine the Sun paraelemental lords wanting to go out with a great big supernova of a bang. What greater way to point out to all elements and paraelements that they can't "live" without the sun.
I think that the delicate balance that persisted for thousands of years was extremely precarious, weakened each time another SK was killed (or in the cake of Oronis & Daskinor, merely written off). As entire cities were wiped off the planet, there was a definite population issue that was being produced, resulting in the Dragon's Levy being filled by raiding outside villages. When Kalak, Abalach-Re, Tektuctitulay, and Borys were killed, and Andropinus was imprisoned, that produced a power vacuum that has not been filled... Things are progressing from bad to worse, the Prism Pentad served (in my view) to hasten the arrival of the end. Add in the Great Earthquake opening the rift for the Kreen Empire to potentially invade, add in anything that could potentially get the Deadlands stirred against the living. Add in Dregoth's fun and exciting trip to attempting to become a god... Heck, even add in the possible chance of there being Rhulisti returning, and not being anywhere near as friendly as people have made them out to be. And to top it all off, there is Rajaat... Which I am personally of the belief he is now only "imprisoned" in the Hollow as much as he wants to be. Sadira's spells weaken at night, and she is the product of his own manipulations through his servants the Shadow Giants.
No, I think Athas might have 100 years at most left to it. Well, at least the Tablelands might be at that point. The rest of the world? Well, it depends on which "bomb" goes off and whether or not it causes chain reactions that could have global implications. It is a dying, fading ember of a world, as I portray it in my campaigns.
With at least 1 confirmed Avangion in the world (Oronis) and some Pyreen left, there will still be hope as long as the Tablelands stabilize, which can happen. As well informed as Oronis is, he should be able to manipulate Sadira to move the Dark Lens to a more appropriate location for safe keeping. All this is a possibility, but perhaps unlikely hehe.
With at least 1 confirmed Avangion in the world (Oronis) and some Pyreen left, there will still be hope as long as the Tablelands stabilize, which can happen. As well informed as Oronis is, he should be able to manipulate Sadira to move the Dark Lens to a more appropriate location for safe keeping. All this is a possibility, but perhaps unlikely hehe.
I don't think Oronis has a chance in hell in making a difference, personally. If he doesn't die from the transformation, he runs the risk of getting monkey-stomped out of existence by his former peers, not to mention by Rajaat himself. I think that Oronis is tragically too late and that his power is unfortunately the equivalent of a pebble trying to stop a river.
I also don't think the Pyreen can really accomplish much. But, I also tend to believe that Defiling land injures the underlying Spirit of the Land that may be in the area, which in turn has caused all kinds of grief for druids... including the Pyreen.
And, it is all well and good if Oronis and the Pyreen somehow are able to turn the world back to the Green Age. Sun still explodes, game over.
Yes Dark Sun is hard, its supposed to hard, what you've presented is pure hopelessness. Most people game to get away from that aspect of real life, you only compound the issue.
Just my opinion though, its your game and if that's how you and your group like it - run with it.
Wow Xlorep, your game sounds way less entertaining then a tax audit while your at the dentist. Damned if you do damned if you don't, why bother even getting out of bed. Too me it sounds like even IF you succeed, you loose. If you loose, you've only accelerated the problem that much more.
Yes Dark Sun is hard, its supposed to hard, what you've presented is pure hopelessness. Most people game to get away from that aspect of real life, you only compound the issue.
Just my opinion though, its your game and if that's how you and your group like it - run with it.
Yeh I toned it down as my PCs didn't like DS that much. Toned down DS is better than no DS.
Wow Xlorep, your game sounds way less entertaining then a tax audit while your at the dentist. Damned if you do damned if you don't, why bother even getting out of bed. Too me it sounds like even IF you succeed, you loose. If you loose, you've only accelerated the problem that much more.
Yes Dark Sun is hard, its supposed to hard, what you've presented is pure hopelessness. Most people game to get away from that aspect of real life, you only compound the issue.
Just my opinion though, its your game and if that's how you and your group like it - run with it.
Honestly, my players enjoy it. I don't exactly tell them that it is all doomed. But then again, the scope of my games rarely elevates to the point where it makes much of a difference. Why would my characters care that the world ends in ~200+ years? It isn't like any of them will be alive by that time anyway. There are more important things for them to worry about, like food, shelter, and oh yeah, not getting eaten.
The "end of the world stuff" only really came up in a handful of my campaigns. And I like to leave breadcrumb trails suggesting to my players that they might have that chance of succeeding... often, they die in the attempt, other times they end up triggering something else happening while fixing the one.
I don't think it is the scope of every campaign to eventually go off to save the world. It just plain is too much for one group to do. They might help people who are trying to save it, but even at epic levels, there is far more pressing immediate concerns to be bothered with the details of what might happen a century or two from now... or really, even to discover the details of what happened a century or two in the past...
I see digging up the past, attempting to figure out what the future holds, etc... to be relatively frivolous exercises. The kinds of things most parties don't have the luxury to do. Athas is a harsh, cruel world, which if you spend your time thinking about another time rather than staying focused on what is around you right now... well, your life expectancy is significantly shortened most likely.
Whether the world ends or doesn't shouldn't be the determining factor on whether the characters "win" or "lose" in my opinion. For me, it is a foregone conclusion. For my campaigns, it would be having fun in the campaign as it stands right now, and accomplishing whatever the party is setting out to do... which "fixing the world" is too big a project for any one campaign, any one party, otherwise Oronis himself would have already done it
Honestly, my players enjoy it. I don't exactly tell them that it is all doomed. But then again, the scope of my games rarely elevates to the point where it makes much of a difference. Why would my characters care that the world ends in ~200+ years? It isn't like any of them will be alive by that time anyway. There are more important things for them to worry about, like food, shelter, and oh yeah, not getting eaten.
The "end of the world stuff" only really came up in a handful of my campaigns. And I like to leave breadcrumb trails suggesting to my players that they might have that chance of succeeding... often, they die in the attempt, other times they end up triggering something else happening while fixing the one.
I don't think it is the scope of every campaign to eventually go off to save the world. It just plain is too much for one group to do. They might help people who are trying to save it, but even at epic levels, there is far more pressing immediate concerns to be bothered with the details of what might happen a century or two from now... or really, even to discover the details of what happened a century or two in the past...
I see digging up the past, attempting to figure out what the future holds, etc... to be relatively frivolous exercises. The kinds of things most parties don't have the luxury to do. Athas is a harsh, cruel world, which if you spend your time thinking about another time rather than staying focused on what is around you right now... well, your life expectancy is significantly shortened most likely.
Whether the world ends or doesn't shouldn't be the determining factor on whether the characters "win" or "lose" in my opinion. For me, it is a foregone conclusion. For my campaigns, it would be having fun in the campaign as it stands right now, and accomplishing whatever the party is setting out to do... which "fixing the world" is too big a project for any one campaign, any one party, otherwise Oronis himself would have already done it
You don't have to save the world but making a difference is often a good motivator for PCs. last campaign I ran the PC water cleric set up an oasis west of Kurn in the ruins of the buried city and eventually a small village formed around it. Didn't save Athas but made a small part of it better.
You don't have to save the world but making a difference is often a good motivator for PCs. last campaign I ran the PC water cleric set up an oasis west of Kurn in the ruins of the buried city and eventually a small village formed around it. Didn't save Athas but made a small part of it better.
I have no issues about them trying to make Athas a better place. I don't tear down those hopes if they present them. What I've been saying is that it all is for naught in the end, because the world doesn't have but a couple hundred more years to be around.
And, since when were Defilers the sole cause of Athas' demise? I mean.... that sun definitely has the impression it is about to go nova. .
The Ancient Halflings made a booboo in trying to double there crops from the mostly "water world" Athas way back when and first Changed their Blue Sun Yellow then used the Pristine Tower to Draw power from the Sun to correct the "Brown Tide"
Later Rajat used the Halflings "Life bending" knowledge to invent Preserving and Defiling Magic (and Psionic Enchantments) and used the Tower to Empower himself and his Champions Which turned the Sun Blaoted and near depleted Red
If anything the Sun would collapse into a White Dwarf..but since it's depletion was magical rather then natural...who knows.
As far as the Topic of the Post.....
I doubt 5 is possible because if ANy of the "Life Bender" Halfings made a run for it Via their "LifeJammers" (Like Spelljammers but uses Life as powersource) they are long gone...might have even been the ones that created the Grey and the Black to keep their Mishap and following consenquenses "contained"
lifeshaping roughly tends to translate into bioengineering, not magic.
One thing I base my belief is the hand out in the "Mysteries of Athas". It states: In the fourth age Rhulisti shall return The grey age becomes the blue age ... and the .... wanderer shall return
I think the space halfing will probably help fix the planet.
In a fantasy world it could, if that's what the DM wanted or allowed.
Couldn't an epic spell bend time and space and displace the world bringing it to another solar system with a younger, less fragile star?
Sure, if your DM allows it!
Remember, anything is possible in Athas so long as you have imagination and a willing DM.
I think it is too far gone for the damage to be reversed. I tend to work with the idea that the power/size/stength of the elemental planes is directly proportional to how well that element/paraelement is fairing on Athas. This means Water and Rain are, of course, not doing so well.
The paraelemental planes are doing wel. I suppose you could syphon power from them to repair the sun.
The paraelemental planes are doing wel. I suppose you could syphon power from them to repair the sun.
That's just it.... I think the paraelemental plane of Sun appears to be doing well, but in all honesty, like the Sun itself, it is burning out real fast. Magma and Silt are doing well enough, but I don't think those are really good to use to help out the Sun. The Black & Gray both fundamentally would be not too wise. Of course, what could help is if the balance of nature could get restored (what the elementals have been fighting for), because then people should be able to focus on the problem they'd otherwise be oblivious to.
That's just it.... I think the paraelemental plane of Sun appears to be doing well, but in all honesty, like the Sun itself, it is burning out real fast. Magma and Silt are doing well enough, but I don't think those are really good to use to help out the Sun. The Black & Gray both fundamentally would be not too wise. Of course, what could help is if the balance of nature could get restored (what the elementals have been fighting for), because then people should be able to focus on the problem they'd otherwise be oblivious to.
Use any of the paraelemental planes or even all of them in some epic spell. Its about the on ly energy source I think you could use to revitalise the sun. Normal elemental planes are to depleted and the other planes to weak IMHO.
"Defiling" the paraelemental planes would also improve conditions on Athas.