Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xenmas Mar 31, 2008 16:57:49	Okay. Everyone has complained about it, but I have not only been embracing it, but actually looking forward to it. The similarities 4th ed and World of Warcraft. I'm not saying that WotC is trying to copy Blizzard, in fact I believe it has been the other way around. That being said, I would like to hear if anyone else has given this any thought. Any homebrew abilities, classes, races, etc that would fit into Azeroth? I want to launch my game at the end of July, and would love to have as many ideas as possible before I get my 4th ed books (Which I have on pre-order). I have other settings I'm going to be running, which will be easy to do with the RAW. For this one, I would like to capture the feel of Azeroth (Not necessarily the MMO, but the setting) as possible.
#2 lord_zack Mar 31, 2008 18:18:20	I'm not sure how much work we can do with out actually seeing the books, but I'd like to do a Warcraft campaign myself and would be willing to help. Most of the classes that we have would probably work well in Azeroth with little to no changes. We'd probably just have to create powers based on the ones from the games. The exception being we might have to create a Shaman class if another class can't do that concept and the Druid class won't be out for a while. Races would be the major concern. Depending on how the human race is we might even want to create our own version of that. We'd also have to come up with feats and paragon paths of course. Also we'd have to consider engineering.
#3 xenmas Apr 01, 2008 10:23:57	Classes and races should be easy enough. I've been "customizing" Dungeons and Dragons for most of my life, as well as other RPGs, and that has always been the easy part. Abilities and Feats are where I am going to find my biggest stumbling block, I believe. My initial thought it to take the in-game abilites and offer three levels worth for every D&D level (Making level 60 characters at level 20). For the Feats, I'm hoping that I can somehow adapt the Talent Tree. I have the d20 World of Warcraft RPG book at home. From what I've seen of 4th ed, though, I don't know that I can really use that other than for flavor. To be fair, however, I have only seen the PH Lite, and the character sheets from the D&D Experience. I know it is a lot of guess work for the next couple of months. Right now, I guess, I am looking for some brainstorming on what might work, and what other people are thinking of trying. :D
#4 McSham Apr 01, 2008 12:07:02	As I am sure they are going to come out with rules about how to convert a character from 3.5 to 4E this book would only need the 4E treatment to be ready to go. World of Warcraft rpg. It has alot of source books and is a pretty good game overall. Hope it helps no use reinventing the wheel if you don't have to.
#5 xenmas Apr 01, 2008 12:14:25	Yeah, I do have the core book for that system. Unfortunately, from everything I have been told there is going to be no conversion book for 3.5 to 4, and the systems are going to be different enough to make conversion more of a chore than working from the bottom up. I do plan to use my current WoW books to ensure that I keep the right flavor to the game, though :D
#6 katahn Apr 01, 2008 14:45:06	I'd be interested in seeing this PH Lite a previous poster mentioned, it's the first I've heard of it. My experience in trying tabletop versions of MMORPGs is that they do not convert well in either direction (for instance, D&D Online was brutally disappointing). Some classes and game mechanics are simply not going to work well in tabletop, and in WoW the biggest example of this I can think of is the druid class. Unlimited ability to shapeshift into what is arguably an equal-level warrior or rogue, powerful healing capabilities, and powerful ranged magical damage capabilities - all depending on which feats (talents) are taken and what sort of equipment is being used. Balancing that for tabletop would be problematic, the power level of the shapeshift forms is very high, being only less powerful than a pure class in its function due to a much narrower range of abilities but functioning equally in core role. Either you water down the forms to joke-status or you harshly limit the ability of the druid to assume them... either way you've effectively dumped the online class for a new tabletop one. My feeling would be to completely disregard the entire online version of Warcraft and even its 3.x game mechanics and just construct a new world with new classes based on the themes and stories set there.
#7 xenmas Apr 01, 2008 16:09:40	It technically is not an official release, so much as a compliation of all the information the WotC has given us to this point, but here is the link http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=221806&page=1&pp=30 I know a lot of the stuff isn't going to translate well. Druid is only the beginning of the problems. Shamans are equally problematic, with being to emulate almost any class in the game without even shapeshifting. Shapeshifting is easy enough to gimp, though. Make it either a per encounter ability or even a per day ability, and make certain that the assumed "class" is not as powerful as that class is if played "pure".
#8 katahn Apr 02, 2008 8:11:44	Thanks for the link and your point about having to gimp the shapeshifting is precisely what I was getting at and you're right about them being only the start. Several classes in WoW play like gestalt classes from Unearthed Arcana if you try to put them down on paper exactly how the are represented in game. Before anyone accuses me of bias, I should point out that before I stopped playing WoW I had three level 70 characters: two druids (one feral, one balance) and one priest (disc/holy). I loved playing a druid in the game, but when I tried using the BESMd20 rules to construct the class I simply could not model shapeshifting anywhere near as potently as it was in-game and by the time I finished toning everything down the class bore only a superficial resemblance to the original. I'd use the world of Azeroth as it is written, and then adapt the various races to as close to ECL0 as possible (which shouldn't be hard, the races are pretty low-powered honestly). The exceptions being the Forsaken as undead mostly, trolls and tauren maybe, the rest could probably fit if their advantages could be coupled with appropriate drawbacks or just simply toned down. The classes I'd just dump and use existing classes. Warrior - Fighter Paladin - Paladin Hunter - Ranger Rogue - Rogue Mage - Wizard Warlock - Wizard (with appropriate specializations) Priest - Cleric Shaman - Cleric (worshipping spirits with different granted powers instead of turn undead) Druid - Druid
#9 xenmas Apr 02, 2008 10:12:58	I was actually thinking somewhat similarly, but with keeping the 4th ed Warlock as a my Warlock and using a kind of Divine Warlock for the Shaman. The Druid is problematic, as it seems there will be no Druid in the initial release, but I can work around that pretty easily. I'm probably also going to change some of the abilities a bit, but without having seen the full list I don't know if that is going to be nessicary or if I will be able to just run with the abilities that WotC gives me :D Races shouldn't be too hard, the core races are pretty well covered (Human, Dwarf, Sub Teifling for Draenie, Sub a modified Dragonborn for Orc, The two different kinds of Elves are our Night and Blood Elves). Tauren I'll have to somehow adapt from the MM (Gimped Minotaurs), the same for Trolls. Gnomes are already supposed to be in the MM with rules on how to run them as PCs. Forsaken are a little bit of a problem, but with the parallel universe I am planning on running, Forsaken shouldn't be PCs anyway (Everyone else has grouped together as a single Alliance). Feats and abilities are where I expect to find the biggest stumbling block. I have only seen a handful of each. So it might be as simple as just letting it run as is, and just changing the names to meet the flavor of Azeroth.
#10 katahn Apr 02, 2008 11:19:12	Off the top of my head I'd use the following for tauren: Str: +2 Dex: -2 Con: +2 Wis: +2 Chr: -2 Size: Large Knowledge: Herbalism +2 (and treated as a class skill) Bonus At Will Ability: Warstomp - anyone (tauren or otherwise, friend or foe) within 5ft of the character has a chance to be momentarily stunned Tauren are large and muscular and deeply in tune with the spirit world (bonuses to str, con, and wis) but somewhat lacking in grace (lower dex) and their deep racial focus on spiritual matters and plain speaking can make them difficult for others to approach or relate to (lower charisma).
#11 evanfardreamer Jun 17, 2008 22:09:36	Nah, 4e has done away with racial stat penalties. I'd give them Str or Con and Wis as their bonus attributes. Dwarves: as-is, but resist 5 cold and +1 to hit with guns (effectively the same damage and stats as crossbows) Forsaken: Resist 5 necrotic, +2 wis/ +2 cha And the racial: Will of the Forsaken Forsaken racial power You embrace your undead heritage to shake off debilitating effects. Encounter (perhaps daily, it is a smidge powerful) Minor Personal Effect: You are no longer dazed, dominated, immobilized, slowed, or stunned, and are immune to all such effects until the end of your next turn. Gnome gave me some trouble- probably +2 dex/ +2 int. Eladrin are close to high elves, and elves as-is fits the nelves pretty good- blood elves will probably be closer to the former. Tauren I haven't gotten to yet- waiting until i get around to checking out half-giants or minotaurs before I put too much work into it.